COVID-19 vaccine discussion

12 minutes ago, smoky said:

The US should give out a 2fer1 Pfizer covid vax/ Viagra coupon with every shot.

Boom, problem solved... unless you're Moderna or J&J.

@walensky, are you listening?

I got J&J and I'll I got was a limp dick

7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

It's in here: https://www.kxan.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/40/2021/08/APH-COVID-19-Briefing-TCCC-8-3-21.pdf

 

@jimmyjazz shared it on the other thread. 

 

7 hours ago, drt said:

I'm still waiting for the numbers to shake out as we have more data points, but I'm not that surprised it's hovering around there right now.  Austin had a large vaccine uptake relatively early.  I bet if we saw detailed numbers those breakthrough hospitalizations would lean super old and in Austin area proper, with relatively early vax dates.

One of the docs or somebody posted some early antibody data on one of the covid threads a few days back, basically the olds (that had first vax priority) have a slightly more muted antibody response, and then those antibody numbers start to fall faster than younger individuals with better immune systems as time passes.  Hence the thought that we'll have a need for boosters, even without Delta and similar popping up.

I did my research. 

Y’all google “covid vaccine third” and make the decision that’s right for you. Lots of really recent info out there. 

For me there was no doubt, that’s where this is headed  

I got Pfizer #3 today, 5 months after getting #2. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

They do, but it is not accessible by public AFAIK. 

I went in for a routine physical in early April nurse running things down at first says "oh see you have your C19 vaccinations, that's good". So even though I had gotten it done at one of the Tarrant County Mass Vax sites that record is out there somewhere and made its way into my medical file.  

6 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:

 

I did my research. 

Y’all google “covid vaccine third” and make the decision that’s right for you. Lots of really recent info out there. 

For me there was no doubt, that’s where this is headed  

I got Pfizer #3 today, 5 months after getting #2. 
 

 

Yeah I’m going to be looking for moderna #3 in the next month or so. A buddy is a Pfizer breakthrough here in Austin. He’s mid 30s, runs 30-40 miles per week. He’s been down for 2 days with bad flu symptoms. He’s glad he got the vax but he was one of the early March cohort. 

I did my research. 
Y’all google “covid vaccine third” and make the decision that’s right for you. Lots of really recent info out there. 
For me there was no doubt, that’s where this is headed  
I got Pfizer #3 today, 5 months after getting #2. 
 
 

Are you seeing "first shots before third shots" as a result?

Because that's the tag line that the WHO is going with so that all the greedy Americans share with the rest of the world.

25 minutes ago, drt said:

Yeah I’m going to be looking for moderna #3 in the next month or so. A buddy is a Pfizer breakthrough here in Austin. He’s mid 30s, runs 30-40 miles per week. He’s been down for 2 days with bad flu symptoms. He’s glad he got the vax but he was one of the early March cohort. 

I think the lesson here is that running a lot is bad for you.

34 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I think the lesson here is that running a lot is bad for you.

 

I'm turning away everyone who asks me for a third shot. Where are yall going that is actually giving you one? 

I'm turning away everyone who asks me for a third shot. Where are yall going that is actually giving you one? 

They are lying and saying it is #1.

I don’t see a problem with people doing that honestly. It’s not like there isn’t enough supply for people here at this point. Seems like needles in arms is still the preferred outcome since the vaccinated are also getting sick.

Would it be weird/ineffective to get modern first go around and a different manufacturer as a booster?

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

5 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

I'm turning away everyone who asks me for a third shot. Where are yall going that is actually giving you one? 

They are lying and saying it is #1.

Just now, Enchubben said:

I don’t see a problem with people doing that honestly. It’s not like there isn’t enough supply for people here at this point. Seems like needles in arms is still the preferred outcome since the vaccinated are also getting sick.

Would it be weird/ineffective to get modern first go around and a different manufacturer as a booster?

I agree. Right now there are thousands of available shots available tomorrow within 5 miles of me. 

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

5 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

I'm turning away everyone who asks me for a third shot. Where are yall going that is actually giving you one? 

They are lying and saying it is #1.

Can't lie unless the previous site isn't reporting to ImmTrac2. All I need is your name and DOB to find out when and where you got the shot 

Just now, HRSchenker said:

Can't lie unless the previous site isn't reporting to ImmTrac2. All I need is your name and DOB to find out when and where you got the shot 

Just now, HRSchenker said:

Can't lie unless the previous site isn't reporting to ImmTrac2. All I need is your name and DOB to find out when and where you got the shot 

 

Can't lie unless the previous site isn't reporting to ImmTrac2. All I need is your name and DOB to find out when and where you got the shot 

Maybe the Texas system works better than ours in CO, but ours is a mess. CO was giving away $5 million to vaxxed people so they have put a website and told people to make sure they were on there if you wanted to be eligible. Not one person in my family of 4, all vaxxed, showed up on the site.

23 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Can't lie unless the previous site isn't reporting to ImmTrac2. All I need is your name and DOB to find out when and where you got the shot 

Is that national?

24 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Can't lie unless the previous site isn't reporting to ImmTrac2. All I need is your name and DOB to find out when and where you got the shot 

Everyone has to enter records to the system, but not necessarily check the system prior to each shot? Is that right?

Our client just required all employees & contractors to be vaccinated. We're about to have several open positions. Personally, I'm glad they did this. Gets rid off all the boneheads.

37 minutes ago, RPM said:

Our client just required all employees & contractors to be vaccinated. We're about to have several open positions. Personally, I'm glad they did this. Gets rid off all the boneheads.

I have an employee that is through a staffing agency for about 10 months. With the slowdown, we haven’t been transitioning anyone to perm because we weren’t sure if we’d shut more units down and end up laying people off. Anyway, I finally got approval to hire someone. We’re half ass-ing the Covid enforcement, and HR has said they are worried about discrimination suits for requiring shots (which at least some have backtracked on since the most recent spike), but I figure I can at least get away with telling the temps I won’t hire them without a shot. When I talked to the guy about the requirements to get maid perm and mentioned getting a vaccine, he came back and asked if it was mandatory. I told him yes. He said he’d have to think about it. He’s been a good employee, he’s not an idiot, very level headed about things, but he’s so afraid of what it will do to him 3/5 years from now that he won’t get it to get maid full time, get better benefits, paid time off, and ability to test up for more $ (and I know he could pass the 1st test at any time). 
 

It’s crazy. I don’t get it.  We would run some good employees off, but I wish we’d just go ahead and require it personally. Impossible to manage the requirement to provide a safe workplace while at the same time on strongly suggesting people wear masks and not requiring proof of vaccine. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by UT_OB1

21 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

HR has said they are worried about discrimination suits for requiring shots

SCOTUS has already ruled on that. It's legal for private companies to require it. Just get the damn shots, people.

4 hours ago, UT_OB1 said:

When I talked to the guy about the requirements to get maid perm and mentioned getting a vaccine, he came back and asked if it was mandatory. I told him yes. He said he’d have to think about it. He’s been a good employee, he’s not an idiot, very level headed about things, but he’s so afraid of what it will do to him 3/5 years from now that he won’t get it to get maid full time, get better benefits, paid time off, and ability to test up for more $ (and I know he could pass the 1st test at any time). 

Is your company called Maid to Order?  It’s a pun. 

maid full time

A full time maid is a hell of a benefit

9 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Everyone has to enter records to the system, but not necessarily check the system prior to each shot? Is that right?

Yep but when you see that third shot entry and get the DSHS phone call the following morning, it'll make you change your way of operating reeeeeally quickly 

Moderna dropped some slides relevant to durability and their booster strategy this morning...

 

 

 

@Anastasis what would be the timeline to get that approved?  As it already has EUA, would this be something we could see roll out in days or weeks, or will the process take months?

11 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

 

12 hours ago, F250 said:

 

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/marathon_do. 

I got some meathead at work that's telling anyone that will listen he knows 5 people that have dropped from sudden heart attack after getting vaxed. I asked him when they got the shots. He didn't know. Which vax did they get? He didn't know. What was their family history? He didn't know but they were all fine.

I sent him to the remote site. Plus, he's about to get cut due to the client requiring the vax.

Edited August 5, 2021 by RPM

9 hours ago, RPM said:

SCOTUS has already ruled on that. It's legal for private companies to require it. Just get the damn shots, people.

Oh, it would be legal. Besides my terrible maid/made typing, I didn’t explain fully. I know we won’t require shots because we’re scared we’d lose too many people to operate. And we might. I attempted to get them to OK incentivizing shots by giving OT to only those who got it (OT has been shut off since last year to reduce cross contamination of crews). They were concerned about discrimination. 
 

Annnnnd we just had another person test positive from the group that had been more or less refusing to wear masks.  

44 minutes ago, drt said:

@Anastasis what would be the timeline to get that approved?  As it already has EUA, would this be something we could see roll out in days or weeks, or will the process take months?

No idea, up to the CDC ACIP committee.  I don't see anything broad in near term, but if they do make a move I think it will be limited to immunosuppressed and elderly and not a broad recommendation. Theoretically, I think that full FDA approval of PFE shot in september would allow for off label use, potentially including third dose. However given that the vax allocations are going through the state, they could shut down a provider that went off the reservation pretty quick. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Anastasis

11 hours ago, Enchubben said:.

Would it be weird/ineffective to get modern first go around and a different manufacturer as a booster?

This is what I’m wondering.  If I did Pfizer first 2 shots, should I go Pfizer or Moderna for my booster?

I wonder if you show up without ID if they’d really turn you away at this point.
 

i don’t feel the least bit bad until there’s actually some real attempt to send them elsewhere. I mean, we let a million doses spoil last week.  

I've got a 10-year old who is about to go to school where masks aren't required, and I'm really thinking about going in and lying about her age to get her the vaccine.

3 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I've got a 10-year old who is about to go to school where masks aren't required, and I'm really thinking about going in and lying about her age to get her the vaccine.

Fuck, people do it every day to have their kids eat the lower priced menu

13 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I've got a 10-year old who is about to go to school where masks aren't required, and I'm really thinking about going in and lying about her age to get her the vaccine.

I assume their is a reason kids under 12 are not approved.   I have a 15 and 12 and although statistically and scientifically I shouldn't be worried about kids this age; as a parent I would be suicidal if my kid was the one in a million that got really sick from covid. 

4 minutes ago, midtown said:

I assume their is a reason kids under 12 are not approved.   I have a 15 and 12 and although statistically and scientifically I shouldn't be worried about kids this age; as a parent I would be suicidal if my kid was the one in a million that got really sick from covid. 

The reason is that Pfizer hasn't yet submitted it for approval.

Now the bigger question is whether Pfizer hasn't yet submitted it for approval merely because the analysis isn't complete, or because the analysis has shown some problem.  Based on the leaks and public comments, I strongly suspect it's the former.

But we're just really talking risk assessment here based on very incomplete data.  How dangerous is Delta to an otherwise-healthy 10-year old?  I don't know.  But you know it's going to sweep through that goddamned school in a month.

One thing to be aware of, in the pediatric trials PFE is using 10mcg (1/3 adult dose) in 5-11 yo and 5mcg (1/6 adult dose in <5yo).  Kids can generate a much more robust response to the antigen exposure than adults.  So just something to be aware of.  I would be much more inclined to go off the reservation with boosting adults and particularly high risk adults than I would be with low risk kids (I got two in the <12 age range, and 1 over 12 that has been vaccinated).   

26 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Now the bigger question is whether Pfizer hasn't yet submitted it for approval merely because the analysis isn't complete, or because the analysis has shown some problem.  Based on the leaks and public comments, I strongly suspect it's the former.

 

PFE made them enroll more kids to increase chances of detection of safety events.  I would probably argue that the additional numbers aren't big enough to really impact the ability to detect very rare safety events, and the requirement only delays completion of the study with no real improvement to understanding rare safety events. But that's teh FDA for you. 

51 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I've got a 10-year old who is about to go to school where masks aren't required, and I'm really thinking about going in and lying about her age to get her the vaccine.

My boss has a 13 and 11 year old. Said they're strongly considering lying about the 11 year old.

 

14 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

 

I did my research. 

Y’all google “covid vaccine third” and make the decision that’s right for you. Lots of really recent info out there. 

For me there was no doubt, that’s where this is headed  

I got Pfizer #3 today, 5 months after getting #2. 
 

 

How you feeling? 3rd dose side effects just like the 2nd?

 

14 hours ago, smoky said:

Are you seeing "first shots before third shots" as a result?

Because that's the tag line that the WHO is going with so that all the greedy Americans share with the rest of the world.

Yes, that's their problem. The many doses available are here to stay, no chance of them going to Africa. Use it or lose it.

Fuck the WHO, says Europe: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/french-president-macron-third-covid-vaccine-doses-likely-elderly-vulnerable-2021-08-05/

12 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

I'm turning away everyone who asks me for a third shot. Where are yall going that is actually giving you one? 

I told the truth at HEB, denied: "company policy."

12 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

12 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

I'm turning away everyone who asks me for a third shot. Where are yall going that is actually giving you one? 

They are lying and saying it is #1.

I lied at CVS.

Mission accomplished.

12 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

Can't lie unless the previous site isn't reporting to ImmTrac2. All I need is your name and DOB to find out when and where you got the shot 

Can and did.

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Moderna dropped some slides relevant to durability and their booster strategy this morning...

 

 

 

 

The date is there. Israel is giving out a third to over 60 starting last week.

The Pfizer data also shows reduced efficacy as time passes. Not necessarily for death but for infection.

The data posted online suggest that levels of antibodies that can target the Delta variant grow fivefold in people 18 to 55 who get a third dose of the vaccine. Among people ages 65 to 85, the Pfizer data suggest that antibody levels that should protect against Delta grow 11-fold more than following a second dose.

PFIZER DATA SEE PAGES 25 AND 26: https://s21.q4cdn.com/317678438/files/doc_financials/2021/q2/Q2-2021-Earnings-Charts-FINAL.pdf

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/health/pfizer-third-dose-data-bn/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/29/world/middleeast/israel-third-shot-covid-vaccine.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/third-covid-shot-vaccine-immunity-israel-study-11628089557

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93884

22 minutes ago, midtown said:

I assume their is a reason kids under 12 are not approved.   I have a 15 and 12 and although statistically and scientifically I shouldn't be worried about kids this age; as a parent I would be suicidal if my kid was the one in a million that got really sick from covid. 

How about if you did not and your kid dies of covid, or was a covid long hauler? my friend's kid had covid (unvaxxed) and got over it a few weeks ago and had a very serious health event (heat stroke, blood issues) at football practice and he is now in the hospital. He also passed covid on to his unvaxxed Trumper parents and his dad is in bad shape. Get the vaccine! 

3 minutes ago, tokamak said:

My boss has a 13 and 11 year old. Said they're strongly considering lying about the 11 year old.

 

How you feeling? 3rd dose side effects just like the 2nd?

my arm hurts, and feel a wee bit off but I'm fine, at work, 18 hours post-3rd

2 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:

How about if you did not and your kid dies of covid, or was a covid long hauler? my friend's kid had covid (unvaxxed) and got over it a few weeks ago and had a very serious health event (heat stroke, blood issues) at football practice and he is now in the hospital. He also passed covid on to his unvaxxed Trumper parents and his dad is in bad shape. Get the vaccine! 

I am.  My kids come back to me tomorrow.   We are going first thing.  They won't be fully vaccinated by the time school starts but they will have a week or so. 

11 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:

 

Yes, that's their problem. The many doses available are here to stay, no chance of them going to Africa. Use it or lose it.

Fuck the WHO, says Europe: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/french-president-macron-third-covid-vaccine-doses-likely-elderly-vulnerable-2021-08-05/

I told the truth at HEB, denied: "company policy."

I lied at CVS.

Mission accomplished.

Can and did.

 

The date is there. Israel is giving out a third to over 60 starting last week.

The Pfizer data also shows reduced efficacy as time passes. Not necessarily for death but for infection.

The data posted online suggest that levels of antibodies that can target the Delta variant grow fivefold in people 18 to 55 who get a third dose of the vaccine. Among people ages 65 to 85, the Pfizer data suggest that antibody levels that should protect against Delta grow 11-fold more than following a second dose.

PFIZER DATA SEE PAGES 25 AND 26: https://s21.q4cdn.com/317678438/files/doc_financials/2021/q2/Q2-2021-Earnings-Charts-FINAL.pdf

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/health/pfizer-third-dose-data-bn/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/29/world/middleeast/israel-third-shot-covid-vaccine.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/third-covid-shot-vaccine-immunity-israel-study-11628089557

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93884

 

I have no doubt that a third shot will Increase your existing antibody levels. If you get five shots you could have antibodies thorough then roof. That doesn’t necessarily mean the outcomes will be improved. There’s not always the link you think there would be.

See: amyloid levels and outcomes with Biogen Alzheimer’s drug. Not exactly analogous, but improved outcomes are what you’re after not just a secondary endpoint. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Muy Frio

18 hours ago, Lobo said:

Doctor of what?  

6 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

I have no doubt that a third shot will Increase your existing antibody levels. If you get five shots you could have antibodies thorough then roof. That doesn’t necessarily mean the outcomes will be improved. There’s not always the link you think there would be.

See: amyloid levels and outcomes with Biogen Alzheimer’s drug. Not exactly analogous, but improved outcomes are what you’re after not just a secondary endpoint. 

Of course the simplistic theory of "more is better" doesn't apply (unless we are talking about titties and beer) but the data appears support the third shot at this time....my jobs put me in close proximity to many other people on a daily basis so it is a decision I have made for myself.

8 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:

Of course the simplistic theory of "more is better" doesn't apply (unless we are talking about titties and beer) but the data appears support the third shot at this time....my jobs put me in close proximity to many other people on a daily basis so it is a decision I have made for myself.

For those that are going for the 3rd, are any of your doctors actually recommending this?

 

 

13 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

Can't lie unless the previous site isn't reporting to ImmTrac2. All I need is your name and DOB to find out when and where you got the shot 

What if we're using... code names?

2 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

I wonder if you show up without ID if they’d really turn you away at this point.
 

I nor my other kids were ever asked for an ID at CVS. My dad also got the shot at CVS and said he just told them his name and they never asked for any other information.

 

 

8 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

What if we're using... code names?

I call Maverick. 

In Austin: Employee is vaxxed. 2nd Pfizer shot was about 2 months ago. Caught COVID over the weekend from unvaxxed daughter and feels like shit. Lost sense of smell and taste. 101 fever, body aches and chills. It’s not looking good out there.