COVID-19 vaccine discussion

55 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Um wat

I think it's clear that @midtown is stating that the data-driven forecast means no specific new assumptions / intelligence are built into the forecast (e.g. it is purely taking historical trends and applying), as opposed to a prediction which may take things like school openings, mask policy, etc., into account.

This doesn't mean that the data-driven forecast is better or worse, just that underlying assumptions are not specifically adjusted for a new forecast.

15 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

If we call it a ticket instead of “papers” would you be OK with it? Or do you never go to sporting events, concerts, or movies?

no one asks for identification when I enter a event, concert or movie.

6 minutes ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

What death toll would it take to reach these people? I

Theirs. Maybe their spouse or child

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

no one asks for identification when I enter a event, concert or movie.

They do if you buy alcohol.    Let's add all the morons who just bend over and offer up their DL when using a credit card.   Hey moron.  You just gave them your DOB, address and DL# to go with your credit card.  Nice work.   Don't you care about your privacy? 

Edited August 12, 2021 by midtown

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

no one asks for identification when I enter a event, concert or movie.

But they do ask for a ticket or to scan your code on your phone. Or are you alleging that someone is asking for a photo ID just for vaccinated people?

Edited August 12, 2021 by Sawbonz

24 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

 

 

 

This is the price of telling people the vaccines are dangerous and ivermectin is 100% effective.

 

15 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

At least that guy had the courage to follow his convictions and not seek medical help when he supposedly doesn't trust the medical community.  Good for him.  More should be like him.

 

these stories are precisely why i keep trying to get @crimsonlonghorn to come on this thread and articulate his mindset of wrestling with whether or not he should listen to the doctors that saved his life over the course of a week in the hospital when they say he should get vaccinated...even after the fact.  the willingness to suspend anything resembling logic or reason is so overwhelming that i think we could all benefit from hearing it from one of our own community members.

I have not been asked for my drivers license to go with a credit card in 10+ years

Do you see somewhere where people are asking for drivers licenses for proof of vaccination? I really don’t understand this line of reasoning

Just now, sidis said:

 

 

these stories are precisely why i keep trying to get @crimsonlonghorn to come on this thread and articulate his mindset of wrestling with whether or not he should listen to the doctors that saved his life over the course of a week in the hospital when they say he should get vaccinated...even after the fact.  the willingness to suspend anything resembling logic or reason is so overwhelming that i think we could all benefit from hearing it from one of our own community members.

That's precisely why you'll never get an answer.  Even he knows it's completely regarded.

When I ask my dad about things like that (he's vaccinated but still voted for Trump), if it's a question I know he can't logically answer, he'll just look at me with a blank face and say nothing.  He knows he can't defend it, so he just goes silent.  But he doesn't change his behavior, either.  I suspect @crimsonlonghorn would react similarly.

4 minutes ago, midtown said:

They do if you buy alcohol.    Let's add all the morons who just bend over and offer up their DL when using a credit card.   Hey moron.  You just gave them your DOB, address and DL# to go with your credit card.  Nice work.   Don't you care about your privacy? 

yes I know.  I meant to enter.

Just now, Sawbonz said:

Do you see somewhere where people are asking for drivers licenses for proof of vaccination? I really don’t understand this line of reasoning

I dont' know about Texas, but that is illegal in CO.

3 minutes ago, sidis said:

 

 

these stories are precisely why i keep trying to get @crimsonlonghorn to come on this thread and articulate his mindset of wrestling with whether or not he should listen to the doctors that saved his life over the course of a week in the hospital when they say he should get vaccinated...even after the fact.  the willingness to suspend anything resembling logic or reason is so overwhelming that i think we could all benefit from hearing it from one of our own community members.

Lol. Gee I wonder why he won’t come over. 

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Do you see somewhere where people are asking for drivers licenses for proof of vaccination? I really don’t understand this line of reasoning

just responding to one of the replies above, nothing more 

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

yes I know.  I meant to enter.

if "00" in your name is commensurate with your graduation date from ut and you went to games as a student, then you absolutely had to show id to enter ut sporting events using a student ticket back then.  no idea if you still have to but that was when i was there and i definitely had to.

 

1 minute ago, Muy Frio said:

Lol. Gee I wonder why he won’t come over. 

i guess because @crimsonlonghorn is a bigger chickenshit than he is a dumbfuck?

8 minutes ago, sidis said:

 

 

these stories are precisely why i keep trying to get @crimsonlonghorn to come on this thread and articulate his mindset of wrestling with whether or not he should listen to the doctors that saved his life over the course of a week in the hospital when they say he should get vaccinated...even after the fact.  the willingness to suspend anything resembling logic or reason is so overwhelming that i think we could all benefit from hearing it from one of our own community members.

I imagine what he would tell you is that whatever reservations he had before about the vaccine, he still has them. Whether they make sense to you or I or not. And now that he has natural immunity he’s not looking to get it. 

I think the whole ID issue has to do with people who are illogically adamant about having to prove they are vaccinated out of "privacy" when the same people willfully hand over data and "show their papers" all the time for the most common things and a lot of times when they aren't even required to do so. 

6 minutes ago, sidis said:

if "00" in your name is commensurate with your graduation date from ut and you went to games as a student, then you absolutely had to show id to enter ut sporting events using a student ticket back then.  no idea if you still have to but that was when i was there and i definitely had to.

it's IQ

Just found out that my unvaccinated aunt was admitted to the hospital yesterday.  Pretty healthy for a senior citizen, so maybe she gets through it. She knows 4 people who have died from COVID, still wouldn’t get the shot.  I am honestly at the point that I really don’t care what happens.

12 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

I imagine what he would tell you is that whatever reservations he had before about the vaccine, he still has them. Whether they make sense to you or I or not. And now that he has natural immunity he’s not looking to get it. 

Except so-called "natural immunity" isn't as good as protection from a vaccine

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w

TLDR: In this case-control study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated.

I really don't understand the headspace where getting a free and easy shot in the arm is such a burden or traumatizing event. Unless you're a toddler. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Captainant

1 minute ago, conVINCEd said:

 I am honestly at the point that I really don’t care what happens.

I hate to be that callous, but I'm there too. Make your choice. I'm not going to stop you from shooting up heroin either. But don't ask me to cry at your funeral.  

23 minutes ago, sidis said:

 

 

these stories are precisely why i keep trying to get @crimsonlonghorn to come on this thread and articulate his mindset of wrestling with whether or not he should listen to the doctors that saved his life over the course of a week in the hospital when they say he should get vaccinated...even after the fact.  the willingness to suspend anything resembling logic or reason is so overwhelming that i think we could all benefit from hearing it from one of our own community members.

What's really wild is how many people actually pay money to these liars to tell them these lies. Bret and Heather's patreon subscription numbers shot through the roof when they started talking about how dangerous the vaccines are and pimping an alternative miracle cure.

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Except so-called "natural immunity" isn't as good as protection from a vaccine

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w

TLDR: In this case-control study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated.

I really don't understand the headspace where getting a free and easy shot in the arm is such a burden or traumatizing event. Unless you're a toddler. 

Thanks for sharing. The holes in that study have already been discussed here as well as a rationale for still passing even if the 2.3x number is correct. I’m not here to rehash it. 

4 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

Thanks for sharing. The holes in that study have already been discussed here as well as a rationale for still passing even if the 2.3x number is correct. I’m not here to rehash it. 

I dont recall a logic-based rationale to refusing vaccination in this or any other thread. At least if improved health outcomes is the desired outcome.

So, they took out a hunk of my colon two years ago - ‘cause Stage III - maybe IV cancer.

Recently they found clots, often a sign of mets. So they want a repeat colonoscopy to look for mets. I just got a call from my hospital that Covid outbreak has cancelled my appointment. Not emergency enough.

Fuck non-vaxers/non-maskers

8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I dont recall a logic-based rationale to refusing vaccination in this or any other thread. At least if improved health outcomes is the desired outcome.

In people with natural immunity, yes it’s in this thread. I don’t want to muck up the thread with same tired discussion though.
 

 

3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

So, they took out a hunk of my colon two years ago - ‘cause Stage III - maybe IV cancer.

Recently they found clots, often a sign of mets. So they want a repeat colonoscopy to look for mets. I just got a call from my hospital that Covid outbreak has cancelled my appointment. Not emergency enough.

Fuck non-vexer/non-maskers

Sorry to hear that. I’m surprised thought that they aren’t continuing outpatient procedures. They don’t take up in house resources and still make the hospitals money. 

13 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

Sorry to hear that. I’m surprised thought that they aren’t continuing outpatient procedures. They don’t take up in house resources and still make the hospitals money. 

They don't have the staff for it because of dumbfucks using up all the available resources.  

34 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

Thanks for sharing. The holes in that study have already been discussed here as well as a rationale for still passing even if the 2.3x number is correct. I’m not here to rehash it. 

Nope. You’re here to spread around anti vaccine propaganda. Admittedly you’ve done less of it since your previous crowdbanning. I guess crowd persuasion works somewhat. 

There's a decent chance that the bullshit spewed by GR here (and probably other boards as well) has indirectly caused someone's death.

Just now, wildcat09 said:

There's a decent chance that the bullshit spewed by GR here (and probably other boards as well) has indirectly caused someone's death.

It’s not a decent chance, it is a fact. Can you tie one particular post to one particular death? No.
 

But the mass “manufacturing of dissent”in America by certain groups cannot be disputed, and every asshole who participated, including our resident buddy/asshole GRUHorn and all his numerous socks spread all over the net and the many like him, has the blood of thousands on their hands, with much more to come, including kids. 

26 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

Sorry to hear that. I’m surprised thought that they aren’t continuing outpatient procedures. They don’t take up in house resources and still make the hospitals money. 

This is not a game. And no you are not sorry. Stop insulting our intelligence. 

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

There's a decent chance that the bullshit spewed by GR here (and probably other boards as well) has indirectly caused someone's death.

 

4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

It’s not a decent chance, it is a fact. Can you tie one particular post to one particular death? No.
 

But the mass “manufacturing of dissent”in America by certain groups cannot be disputed, and every asshole who participated, including our resident buddy/asshole GRUHorn and all his numerous socks spread all over the net and the many like him, has the blood of thousands on their hands, with much more to come, including kids. 

These.

The purposeful dissemination of false information is intended to 1) divide society and 2) lead to negative outcomes that break down a functional society.

This is the purpose behind the misinformation campaign (which has largely emanated from literally a handful of primary sources, to be disseminated and amplified by trolls and useful idiots).

"Get America to destroy itself."  That's the goal.  It's sad how easily it is achieved.

I know it will never happen but wouldn’t break my heart if doctors started refusing treatment for patients with covid who were too stupid to get the damn shot.

I 100% believe insurance should not cover covid treatment if you aren’t vaccinated.

This is the best study I’ve seen on natural immunity and vaxxed vs unvaxxed. “Propaganda” from the Cleveland Clinic. 
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2

Spoiler

Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.

Methods Employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System working in Ohio on Dec 16, 2020, the day COVID-19 vaccination was started, were included. Any subject who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 at least 42 days earlier was considered previously infected. One was considered vaccinated 14 days after receipt of the second dose of a SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection over the next five months, among previously infected subjects who received the vaccine, was compared with those of previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated, previously uninfected subjects who received the vaccine, and previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated.

Results Among the 52238 included employees, 1359 (53%) of 2579 previously infected subjects remained unvaccinated, compared with 22777 (41%) of 49659 not previously infected. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated, compared with a steady increase in cumulative incidence among previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated. Not one of the 1359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated had a SARS-CoV-2 infection over the duration of the study. In a Cox proportional hazards regression model, after adjusting for the phase of the epidemic, vaccination was associated with a significantly lower risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among those not previously infected (HR 0.031, 95% CI 0.015 to 0.061) but not among those previously infected (HR 0.313, 95% CI 0 to Infinity).

Conclusions Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.

Summary Cumulative incidence of COVID-19 was examined among 52238 employees in an American healthcare system. COVID-19 did not occur in anyone over the five months of the study among 2579 individuals previously infected with COVID-19, including 1359 who did not take the vaccine.

 

Fda approved doses of ivermectin do not result in concentrations that inhibit viral replication in vitro. So if they have a valid script they might as well be eating mentos. At least then they would have fresh breath

The jury is still out on that right? It seems it’s worth seeing the outcomes of all the current clinical trials under way.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

“Taken together these results demonstrate that ivermectin has antiviral action against the SARS-CoV-2 clinical isolate in vitro, with a single dose able to control viral replication within 24–48 h in our system.”

Before wildcat shows up in hysterics: I also think everyone should get vaccinated, and myself and my whole family got vaccinated as soon as we could. We took my 12 year old three days after his birthday.

3 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

I know it will never happen but wouldn’t break my heart if doctors started refusing treatment for patients with covid who were too stupid to get the damn shot.

I 100% believe insurance should not cover covid treatment if you aren’t vaccinated.

That’s great but I don’t think there’s a huge toll to pay when you walk your medical bills. 

3 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

This is the best study I’ve seen on natural immunity and vaxxed vs unvaxxed. “Propaganda” from the Cleveland Clinic. 
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2

  Reveal hidden contents

Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.

Methods Employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System working in Ohio on Dec 16, 2020, the day COVID-19 vaccination was started, were included. Any subject who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 at least 42 days earlier was considered previously infected. One was considered vaccinated 14 days after receipt of the second dose of a SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection over the next five months, among previously infected subjects who received the vaccine, was compared with those of previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated, previously uninfected subjects who received the vaccine, and previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated.

Results Among the 52238 included employees, 1359 (53%) of 2579 previously infected subjects remained unvaccinated, compared with 22777 (41%) of 49659 not previously infected. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated, compared with a steady increase in cumulative incidence among previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated. Not one of the 1359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated had a SARS-CoV-2 infection over the duration of the study. In a Cox proportional hazards regression model, after adjusting for the phase of the epidemic, vaccination was associated with a significantly lower risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among those not previously infected (HR 0.031, 95% CI 0.015 to 0.061) but not among those previously infected (HR 0.313, 95% CI 0 to Infinity).

Conclusions Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.

Summary Cumulative incidence of COVID-19 was examined among 52238 employees in an American healthcare system. COVID-19 did not occur in anyone over the five months of the study among 2579 individuals previously infected with COVID-19, including 1359 who did not take the vaccine.

 

Look at the date on that.  June 5.  That's pre-Delta.  Delta don't give a shit if you've had other strains.

3 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

This is the best study I’ve seen on natural immunity and vaxxed vs unvaxxed. “Propaganda” from the Cleveland Clinic. 
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2

  Reveal hidden contents

Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.

Methods Employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System working in Ohio on Dec 16, 2020, the day COVID-19 vaccination was started, were included. Any subject who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 at least 42 days earlier was considered previously infected. One was considered vaccinated 14 days after receipt of the second dose of a SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection over the next five months, among previously infected subjects who received the vaccine, was compared with those of previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated, previously uninfected subjects who received the vaccine, and previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated.

Results Among the 52238 included employees, 1359 (53%) of 2579 previously infected subjects remained unvaccinated, compared with 22777 (41%) of 49659 not previously infected. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated, compared with a steady increase in cumulative incidence among previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated. Not one of the 1359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated had a SARS-CoV-2 infection over the duration of the study. In a Cox proportional hazards regression model, after adjusting for the phase of the epidemic, vaccination was associated with a significantly lower risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among those not previously infected (HR 0.031, 95% CI 0.015 to 0.061) but not among those previously infected (HR 0.313, 95% CI 0 to Infinity).

Conclusions Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.

Summary Cumulative incidence of COVID-19 was examined among 52238 employees in an American healthcare system. COVID-19 did not occur in anyone over the five months of the study among 2579 individuals previously infected with COVID-19, including 1359 who did not take the vaccine.

 

Is it the best study because it says what you want?  
 

why should anyone focus on one single study if many are available?

Anyone kind of  curious as to how fairly close the blue and green are?  One is mask mandates and one is not?  Virtually identical

Mask mandates don’t necessarily equate to mask wearing. Georgia never had a mandate and there were masks everywhere. Private business drove a lot of it.

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Is it the best study because it says what you want?  
 

why should anyone focus on one single study if many are available?

I’m not focusing on one. Just keeping this brief and pointing out probably the “cleanest” one. This argument is tired. 

3 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Look at the date on that.  June 5.  That's pre-Delta.  Delta don't give a shit if you've had other strains.

Do you have any numbers on that? 

2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Mask mandates don’t necessarily equate to mask wearing. Georgia never had a mandate and there were masks everywhere. Private business drove a lot of it.

Mask mandates certainly had an effect on mask wearing in CO.  Once the mandates dropped, mask wearing fell off a cliff and hasn't really come back (although it is coming back lately, but still maybe at 20% now unless stores require it).

4 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That’s great but I don’t think there’s a huge toll to pay when you walk your medical bills. 

There isn't. 

It's a hit on your credit score when it goes into collection status.  Those collections are ignored on your debt to income calculations.  If it gets annoying enough it's going to cause you to declare BK perhaps? It's not ideal and I wouldn't want them on my credit- but of all the financial decisions you can make that can fuck up your life skating on medical debt is toward the bottom. 

7 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

The jury is still out on that right? It seems it’s worth seeing the outcomes of all the current clinical trials under way.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

“Taken together these results demonstrate that ivermectin has antiviral action against the SARS-CoV-2 clinical isolate in vitro, with a single dose able to control viral replication within 24–48 h in our system.”

Before wildcat shows up in hysterics: I also think everyone should get vaccinated, and myself and my whole family got vaccinated as soon as we could. We took my 12 year old three days after his birthday.

 

2 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

I’m not focusing on one. Just keeping this brief and pointing out probably the “cleanest” one. This argument is tired. 

It's also pre-print and not peer reviewed. But since it confirms your beliefs, it must be right! Right?

Just now, Chewbacca said:

Mask mandates certainly had an effect on mask wearing in CO.  Once the mandates dropped, mask wearing fell off a cliff and hasn't really come back (although it is coming back lately, but still maybe at 20% now unless stores require it).

Yeah but that's probably correlation not causation.  People stopped wearing masks not necessarily because the mandate went away (that's some people, sure) but because the numbers were such and people with vaccine's had strong immunity such that wearing a mask didn't make sense. Now that people think it makes sense they are putting masks back on. I'm sure if the numbers continue to climb more people would do it, but obviously less than with a mandate.  

Anecdotally around North East Houston burbs last weekend mask wearing was about as high as I've ever seen it- and that's with no mandate or requirement.  

At least that guy had the courage to follow his convictions and not seek medical help when he supposedly doesn't trust the medical community.  Good for him.  More should be like him.

Really unfortunately placed ad on an article about his death:

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

no one asks for identification when I enter a event, concert or movie.

I show my ID and my registration form every time I sit down at a poker tournament. OMG PAPERS PLEASE NAZI NAZI

Do you see somewhere where people are asking for drivers licenses for proof of vaccination? I really don’t understand this line of reasoning

All of the new concert protocols that I’ve seen require a vax card or negative test plus an ID.

Except so-called "natural immunity" isn't as good as protection from a vaccine
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w
TLDR: In this case-control study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated.
I really don't understand the headspace where getting a free and easy shot in the arm is such a burden or traumatizing event. Unless you're a toddler. 

Counterpoint:

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

tldr: an Israeli study found the opposite. 40% of new patients were vaccinated, vs 1% that were previously infected.

38 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

They don't have the staff for it because of dumbfucks using up all the available resources.  

Exactly. Some friends of mine who work in IT for a hospital system are being asked to periodically help out. Something as simple as to help push a patient in a wheelchair since they have limited/no experience in working with patients. The normal person helping to push the wheelchair might be up-trained to do something else.  Only trained people are handling clinical tasks but trying to get non-clinical staff to help out where possible.