COVID-19 vaccine discussion

First of all, the vaccines were designed to do exactly what they do. Stop severe disease and deaths. They are highly effective at that. Both are still well over 90% at stopping severe disease and considerably higher at stopping deaths. Johnson and Johnson does that successfully as well. 
When the vaccines were released, no one said shit about how many infections they would stop, because we didn't know. We hoped they would stop them, but that wasn't their design and the clinical trials did not look at it. 
We measured vaccine effectiveness in the low to mid-90s at stopping infections versus the wild type (wuhan) and Alpha strains. They are now less effective at stopping infections, but still very effective at severe disease and death. 
Viruses evolve and so will our vaccines. 
 
 
 

You have to admit the messaging has sucked. Our government is not designed to deal with pandemics. But the leader of the free world said three weeks ago “You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”

4 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

Just like your assertion that covid is dangerous for children. You're exactly like the guy you're arguing with. 

Username checks out.

3 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

You have to admit the messaging has sucked. Our government is not designed to deal with pandemics.

What messaging wouldn't have sucked?  I mean, what messaging would have significantly moved the needle for the vast majority of those who continue to refuse to be vaccinated even now?  Sure the messaging could have been better (maybe); but they've been dealing with a moving target, which tends to make messaging susceptible to attack when circumstances force the message to shift.

 

Quote

But the leader of the free world said three weeks ago “You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”

Well did everyone get vaccinations?

You have to admit the messaging has sucked. Our government is not designed to deal with pandemics. But the leader of the free world said three weeks ago “You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”

No I don’t. The problem is idiots that don’t understand mutations and the basic science.

Shit is constantly changing. If everyone got the vaccine as soon as they were eligible that three week old information might be true. But, delta. It’s a different fucking virus because unvaccinated human hosts allowed it to mutate. And it continues to do so and the next deadly iteration could wipe out the vaccinated.

Get the fucking shot.

4 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

You have to admit the messaging has sucked. Our government is not designed to deal with pandemics. But the leader of the free world said three weeks ago “You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”

If anyone has been taking Covid/vaccine advice from either Trump or Biden, they got serious fucking problems.  

Having said that, Trump issuing one of those ostensible tweets that just says, "I got the vaccine and you should too" would go a long way to pushing millions of non-vaxxed over the edge and move us closer to full herd immunity and normalcy.  Biden can do his part by staying relatively quiet on the matter and just continuing to direct resources where needed and calm markets.  But those two guys couldn't win a middle school science fair bronze medal in a school with 4 kids. 

No CR, but Fauci and his teams did not get into the communicable/transmissible diseases game decades ago to eventually one day accrue power and hold dominion over Americans and their behaviors.  They got into the profession to help people and solve complex problems.  Trump and Biden have been lusting for power since they were teenagers.  If you won't listen to Fauci because he's smart, at least listen to him because you know what his motivations are.    

No I don’t. The problem is idiots that don’t understand mutations and the basic science.

Shit is constantly changing. If everyone got the vaccine as soon as they were eligible that three week old information might be true. But, delta. It’s a different fucking virus because unvaccinated human hosts allowed it to mutate. And it continues to do so and the next deadly iteration could wipe out the vaccinated.

Get the fucking shot.

You can admit it. It’s ok. You know.

If anyone has been taking Covid/vaccine advice from either Trump or Biden, they got serious fucking problems.  
Having said that, Trump issuing one of those ostensible tweets that just says, "I got the vaccine and you should too" would go a long way to pushing millions of non-vaxxed over the edge and move us closer to full herd immunity and normalcy.  Biden can do his part by staying relatively quiet on the matter and just continuing to direct resources where needed and calm markets.  But those two guys couldn't win a middle school science fair bronze medal in a school with 4 kids. 
No CR, but Fauci and his teams did not get into the communicable/transmissible diseases game decades ago to eventually one day accrue power and hold dominion over Americans and their behaviors.  They got into the profession to help people and solve complex problems.  Trump and Biden have been lusting for power since they were teenagers.  If you won't listen to Fauci because he's smart, at least listen to him because you know what his motivations are.    

I doubt it. He already came out and told everyone to get vaccinated and then his supporters said he was being coerced. There’s no hope for those people.

Maybe if Mike Lindell told them to.

2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

I doubt it. He already came out and told everyone to get vaccinated and then his supporters said he was being coerced. There’s no hope for those people.

Maybe if Mike Lindell told them to.

Again, no CR. But when he did he endorse the vaccine thing/encourage it for people?  I remember him saying that when he was in office and Warp Speed was going on.  But I don't recall him ever saying it again once he left office which happened to coincide with the time the vaccine rollout for the general public began in earnest (February-ish).  

7 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

What messaging wouldn't have sucked?  I mean, what messaging would have significantly moved the needle for the vast majority of those who continue to refuse to be vaccinated even now?  Sure the messaging could have been better (maybe); but they've been dealing with a moving target, which tends to make messaging susceptible to attack when circumstances force the message to shift.

Consistency, transparency about risks, less us vs them approach. Hell I don’t know. I’d be a PR consultant if I did. 

8 minutes ago, Lobo said:

No CR, but Fauci and his teams did not get into the communicable/transmissible diseases game decades ago to eventually....If you won't listen to Fauci because he's smart, at least listen to him because you know what his motivations are.    

 

A multiple decade career as a government bureaucrat occurred in that ellipsis.  

Edited August 13, 2021 by Anastasis

Most physicians I know end up in some administrative or bureaucratic role after that many decades in practice/clinic labs.  Most of them never accrue any real power except over modest sized budgets over a hospital system or research lab.  It's not nothing, but it's not akin to the lust for power held by guys that wanna be President or Senator. 

I distrust bureaucrats because they're complacent, but not because they're power hungry.  Every high-level appointee in the myriad medical/health related boards and commissions in Texas I know are just career doctors/optometrists/biology researchers who taught or practiced for decades and just wanted some validation and administrative dominion over something so they ride off into full retirement helping run some budget or program or entire department.  Fauci was on his way to doing the same until somebody fucked a whomp-rat and coughed about it later. 

8 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Again, no CR. But when he did he endorse the vaccine thing/encourage it for people?  I remember him saying that when he was in office and Warp Speed was going on.  But I don't recall him ever saying it again once he left office which happened to coincide with the time the vaccine rollout for the general public began in earnest (February-ish).  

I don’t think he has (he has no media outlet) but I don’t think it would matter. 

45 minutes ago, Pods said:

If you are currently unvaccinated, you should ask yourself these questions. 

Why are all the science and medicine posters on here unanimously  encouraging masks, tests and vaccination as the only way out of this? 

Why are professional trolls so dedicated to undermining that consistent messaging and making sure you think there is some controversy where Ivermectin/HCQ/Whatever else is better than a vaccine, or that vaccines shouldn't be used in x,y,z situation?

Does it make you uncomfortable that those troll posts are the dominant opinion on Texags?

Emphasized in every way possible.

Imagine you had no actual information or data.  You just had the following information:

Position X is promoted and encouraged by an overwhelming majority of western health officials, including the majority of actual practitioners right where you live.

Position Y, in direct opposition to Position X, is promoted by known professional trolls and Russian trolls consistent with a stated intent to divide western societies.

 

Just knowing those two things, if required to choose, how could you defend choosing Position Y?

35 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

You have to admit the messaging has sucked. Our government is not designed to deal with pandemics. But the leader of the free world said three weeks ago “You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”

 

Our messaging has been horrendous since the beginning. Masks, fomites, tests, aerosol spread, all of it. 

If Biden said that there weeks ago, obviously I disagree with him, since I've been saying we'd see both breakthroughs and re-infections on here since at least June. 
 

On 6/27/2021 at 7:26 PM, Pods said:

If you are vaccinated, get ready for boosters. The mRNA vaccines are incredible and will save our asses. 

It's probably not a terrible idea to get an anti-body test. I've been thinking about it recently, because I didn't have a strong reaction to the vaccine either time. 

 

If you aren't vaccinated, do it now and keep your ass isolated and masked until full immunity. Delta and the coming variants are going to fucking wreck you.

Even if you've already had COVID. Gamma and Delta both frequently infect people that have already had COVID. 

 

 

However, he was repeating scientific consensus that turned out to be wrong. The president should follow scientific consensus. We'd be in a much better spot if that had been the case for the whole pandemic. He should also have advisors challenging the consensus, but it's hard to fault him personally when the consensus turns out to be incorrect.

He was also set up to fail by the staggering incompetence of his predecessor. The pandemic playbook was scrapped and replaced by grabass and grift for the first year of this. Career employees were fired, or quit at all the relevant agencies, losing untold amounts of institutional knowledge. I would love to re-run this simulation with any of the other 2016 GOP Presidential finalists in charge. We'd have seen a much more positive outcome. 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Pods

4 hours ago, Captainant said:

Kids getting seriously sick with COVID is still bad. Hospitals stretched to the limit with COVID patients, to the detriment of their pediatric units is still bad. 

Don't get the compulsion to die on this hill. It's an incredibly contagious respiratory disease with known long-running side effects. Considering that our state level policy making towards children is "COVID can't hurt them", I encourage you to reevaluate why you feel abbott is doing the right thing. 

Whose saying Covid can’t hurt kids?  Everyone I hear talking about it is saying Covid doesn’t hurt enough kids to warrant the damage done to kids that we did last year in trying to mitigate against its spread by closing down camps, sports, schools, churches etc. 

StruggleBus pretty clearly was saying he doesn't think covid is dangerous for children.

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Whose saying Covid can’t hurt kids?  Everyone I hear talking about it is saying Covid doesn’t hurt enough kids to warrant the damage done to kids that we did last year in trying to mitigate against its spread by closing down camps, sports, schools, churches etc. 

We've been round this multiple times, we should not be trying to compare past strains to Delta as if they are 1:1 comparable, they are not. Delta has characteristics previous variants did not have. It is much more infectious in kids. 

So far, we have had ~45,000 pediatric hospitalizations and ~400 dead kids. Those numbers are against variants much less adapted to infect kids than Delta and in schools with masking policies/virtual learning. 

Even if Delta is no more severe for kids, and there is evidence that it is more severe, but even if it isn't, it is MUCH more infectious .

No mask policies + in person schools + greatly increased transmissiblity = a lot of sick kids. 

We should have delayed the start of schools a few weeks while we collected more data and it shouldn't be controversial. We've let so many of these arguments be framed by trolls and idiots. 

Kids need to be in school.  What we need is for the FDA to stop fucking slow playing vax studies for bullshit reasons, so that we can get our children vaccinated and return them to an education environment. 

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Kids need to be in school.  What we need is for the FDA to stop fucking slow playing vax studies for bullshit reasons, so that we can get our children vaccinated and return them to an education environment. 

Yes, but.....I'm not so sure that any plan that relies on adults to make sound decisions (like actually getting their kids vaccinated) is a real winner in this country.  So doomed to fail as to be DOA, even.

21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes, but.....I'm not so sure that any plan that relies on adults to make sound decisions (like actually getting their kids vaccinated) is a real winner in this country.  So doomed to fail as to be DOA, even.

Perhaps we could start with getting some adults at the FDA and CDC to pull their thumbs out their ass?

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Perhaps we could start with getting some adults at the FDA and CDC to pull their thumbs out their ass?

Again.....like it will matter.  I want it to happen, I want vaccinations out there for kids, as I have multiple friends who VERY much want to vaccinate their kids.

But in terms of a great social improvement.....naaah.  The idiots who won't get vaxxed or wear masks?  They'll do the same with respect to their kids.  This is a pandemic of a virus wrapped in stupidity, and it's a pretty effective combination.

We'll get through it when we get through it.  The only think we know for certain is that will take a lot longer than it should.

6 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

It's to be administered early.

Shit man why didn’t any of the investigators in the 30 odd studies to date think to try that for their study? 🤦

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Again.....like it will matter.

JFC, go back to your ledge my friend. 

6 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

Just like your assertion that covid is dangerous for children. You're exactly like the guy you're arguing with. 

I never neg in cloak room but seriously go fuck yourself. There are no pediatric ICU beds in north Texas right now. When my son was 3 he damn near died and had to be airlifted to the trauma center. If (when) that happens today or tomorrow to a child they likely die. And it’s because of pediatric covid cases

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

JFC, go back to your ledge my friend. 

Tell me where I'm wrong.

You know that the American people, collectively, are fatally stupid.  We're just watching it play out in real time.  Pour a glass and watch along with me.

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

When my son was 3 he damn near died and had to be airlifted to the trauma center. If (when) that happens today or tomorrow to a child they likely die.

My son was in PICU at about same age.  ARDS. Shit was very very dicey.  Mom made the call to head to Dell in middle of the night, cause moms have a sixth sense. Thank god for that and not trying to ride it out for the night. If we had to make that call today, we'd be sitting in the line in the lobby when he crashed and he might not be here today. People don't understand how nasty shit can be if our healthcare system capacity breaks down. 

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Pour a glass and watch along with me.

I'd rather my 7 yo son just be able to get his shot so we don't have the roll the dice twice. 

Just now, Anastasis said:

My son was in PICU at about same age.  ARDS. Shit was very very dicey.  Mom made the call to head to Dell in middle of the night, cause moms have a sixth sense. Thank god for that and not trying to ride it out for the night. If we had to make that call today, we'd be sitting in the line in the lobby when he crashed and he might not be here today. People don't understand how nasty shit can be if our healthcare system capacity breaks down. 

Again.....understand that a large percentage of America thinks that you're full of shit, COVID is fake, vaccines don't work or help, and in fact, they're causing COVID, which is fake, by the way, and the stories about hospital capacity are part of the Deep State's carefully orchestrated plan to lie to us.

They don't care about your kid, mine, or anyone else's.  They simply bathe in their psychosis, and grin.

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

I'd rather my 7 yo son just be able to get his shot so we don't have the roll the dice twice. 

You and dozens of my friends.  For that, I very much want the damned shot approved today.

But as for society as a whole.....won't make a shit.  We've chosen our path.  It's a really shitty one, but if there's one thing America is awesome at, it's committing to be shitty.

I still marvel at the process

"I don't want to put that shit in my body, it was emergency authorized, rushed through testing and my aunt's best friend said on Facebook it gave her the runs.  Oh but this shit, this shit that they gave Mr Ed so he wouldn't get worms when they stuck the cattle prod up his ass to make him talk and my cousin Kiki took to get rid of her head lice...yea that shit is great, gimme that."

Idiots, all of them....you are wasting your breath and would feel a lot better if you just stopped.  

I don't know if it was a Far Side cartoon or a standup comedy bit by Steven Wright or what.  But years ago, somebody joked about aliens monitoring us from afar.  We would follow them around to clean up their shit, prepare them lavish meals, and bathe them with considerable ceremony.  We would appear to the aliens as the subservient servant and the Dog was the ruling class creature.  

And now if they were to look in on Planet Earth, they'd see whom they thought to be the dominant species of the planet, Homo Sapiens, eating horse paste to stave off an airborne virus that can result in communicable disease.  Because a gameshow host and a guy who thought pillows weren't aesthetically pleasing enough to snort crack off of said we should.  Not paste made from horses.  Paste made for horses.  And it's name that said on him was "Stupid"...and Dumb followed with him.  

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Perhaps we could start with getting some adults at the FDA and CDC to pull their thumbs out their ass?

Nope.  Can you imagine what the mouth breathers would do with the information that one child was harmed by a "rushed" vaccine?  You don't have to.  

The CDC has been discredited by many due to their messaging.  The FDA has enough problems.  Conspiracy theorists don't need red meat.  At all.  A crumb of impropriety spreads distrust far and wide on social media.  Horse paste.

Nope.  Can you imagine what the mouth breathers would do with the information that one child was harmed by a "rushed" vaccine? 

Spoiler: they would do whatever their minister of propaganda tells them they’re supposed to do

I'm loving the debate between someone who is probably a manager at Pep Boys arguing with a physician on the ins and outs of medicine.

5 hours ago, tigol said:

No I don’t. The problem is idiots that don’t understand mutations and the basic science.

Shit is constantly changing. If everyone got the vaccine as soon as they were eligible that three week old information might be true. But, delta. It’s a different fucking virus because unvaccinated human hosts allowed it to mutate. And it continues to do so and the next deadly iteration could wipe out the vaccinated.

Get the fucking shot.

you realize Delta started in Dec 2020 and was predominant in UK and India.

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

you realize Delta started in Dec 2020 and was predominant in UK and India.

This virus will only mutate in the US. Spike protein out front should have told you. 

almost every pandemic in the last 150 years has lasted 18-24 months

I did enjoy Charles Barkely and Arnold speaking their peace lately. Or is it piece? "Come with me. If you want to live." Pretty powerful optics if its done in the right way. 

you realize Delta started in Dec 2020 and was predominant in UK and India.

I heard it was West Philly

3 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I did enjoy Charles Barkely and Arnold speaking their peace lately. Or is it piece? "Come with me. If you want to live." Pretty powerful optics if its done in the right way. 

Yeah.  But unfortunately, it'd be more effective if Ted Neugent and Kid Rock with Skynard as the backing band featuring Mike Lindell on tambourine wrote a song about the importance of vaccination for COVID19.

1 minute ago, dcbc said:

Yeah.  But unfortunately, it'd be more effective if Ted Neugent and Kid Rock with Skynard as the backing band featuring Mike Lindell on tambourine wrote a song about the importance of vaccination for COVID19.

I hope that is wrong. I am guessing 35 - 40 % is dug in on their stance of no vaccines or are still "Doing the Research." You can't tell from the figures honestly. Just a guess on my part. I got mine. And hopefully, that holds till we get some booster or whatever. I don't blame people for being cautious or scared or wanting more information...I blame those who from the jump have been "not doing it" crowd even though (some--not all or certainly not most are Trump supporters--he got the shot/shots) Its why for my own mental wellbeing I am not engaging/debating with those still fighting and conspiracy-theorying this. 

 

4 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I hope that is wrong. I am guessing 35 - 40 % is dug in on their stance of no vaccines or are still "Doing the Research." You can't tell from the figures honestly. Just a guess on my part. I got mine. And hopefully, that holds till we get some booster or whatever. I don't blame people for being cautious or scared or wanting more information...I blame those who from the jump have been "not doing it" crowd even though (some--not all or certainly not most are Trump supporters--he got the shot/shots) Its why for my own mental wellbeing I am not engaging/debating with those still fighting and conspiracy-theorying this. 

 

First shot in December 2020.  Yeah, I'm itching for my booster too.

2 minutes ago, dcbc said:

First shot in December 2020.  Yeah, I'm itching for my booster too.

Are you a med like my sib/cousin? I did some "research" but just got Pfizer because my brother who works as a PA in most hospitals in the central Texas area got the same so I figured that would be fine. Fuck if I know. I do understand why people are scared and reticent. I do. But the side I can't come down on is the "I am not wearing my masks." I just can't. I do have some empathy for people not knowing what shot to choose or if it will be effective because that makes more sense. 

Are you a med like my sib/cousin? I did some "research" but just got Pfizer because my brother who works as a PA in most hospitals in the central Texas area got the same so I figured that would be fine. Fuck if I know. I do understand why people are scared and reticent. I do. But the side I can't come down on is the "I am not wearing my masks." I just can't. I do have some empathy for people not knowing what shot to choose or if it will be effective because that makes more sense. 

mAsKS WOnT pROTeCt yOU!!!

4 minutes ago, dcbc said:

First shot in December 2020.  Yeah, I'm itching for my booster too.

You must be old.  My parents got their third shot today.  You can just walk into your local drug store and get it.  They are pretty much Trumpkins, but they have taken the vaccine seriously, so I guess they’re not all in.  Which is a little odd to me that they’ll buy all of the other bullshit, but they balk when it comes time to choose between living and dying.  It actually makes me sad, because it tells me they still have the capacity to make logical choices, but choose to be willfully ignorant about everything else.

2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

mAsKS WOnT pROTeCt yOU!!!

First shot Aug. 18th, 2020 in the Moderna trial here. 

 

12 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Are you a med like my sib/cousin? I did some "research" but just got Pfizer because my brother who works as a PA in most hospitals in the central Texas area got the same so I figured that would be fine. Fuck if I know. I do understand why people are scared and reticent. I do. But the side I can't come down on is the "I am not wearing my masks." I just can't. I do have some empathy for people not knowing what shot to choose or if it will be effective because that makes more sense. 

State judicial appellate attorney that got the call because so many people at our local Christus hospital refused, and the pfizer vaccines were going to go bad.  So they called the district court employees along with state employees, DA's office, etc.  So I got an early shot along with my wife who was 1B because she had breast cancer. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by dcbc

8 minutes ago, dcbc said:

State judicial appellate attorney that got the call because so many people at our local Christus hospital refused, and the pfizer vaccines were going to go bad.  So they called the district court employees along with state employees, DA's office, etc.  So I got an early shot along with my wife who was 1B because of having breast cancer. 

Im sincerely sorry. Dealing with some possible cancer issues myself. Fuck Covid whatever variant. It came from a place and I would like to hunt the down and kill them. My feelings on the matter. Sorry about your wife m. No doubt a bad ass.

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Tell me where I'm wrong.

You know that the American people, collectively, are fatally stupid.  We're just watching it play out in real time.  Pour a glass and watch along with me.

You are wrong. Any percentage of kids getting vaccinated will slow the spread of disease. Even if only 25% of parents decided to vaccinate their children, that would be infinitely better than the 0% we are seeing today.