COVID-19 vaccine discussion

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Come on man. There is a likely a significant surveillance bias playing out in that example. Lots of testing going to find asymptomatic cases with a non-sterilizing vaccine. 

Hospital Cases

There are 10 people with Covid-19 in University Hospital Waterford, according to the latest HSE update - one of those is being treated in ICU.

It's a jump up from 7 on the previous 24 hours.

It's the highest number of cases on site there since March 31st.

Meanwhile, the latest CSO statistics indicate that one person has died in Waterford due to the virus in the week ending October 1st.

The total number of deaths from the virus in the county since the pandemic began is 110.

 

1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

I interpret that you are wanting to make a point without stating the point you're wanting to make.

I don't understand what y'all are upset about in a Covid 19 discussion. I didn't collect it. The World Health Organization did. I asked if it has been posted. If you don't like it and want to dismiss it I don't care. It's out there though.

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

If you don't like it and want to dismiss it I don't care

Seems like you do care 

Just now, Anastasis said:

Come on man. There is a likely a significant surveillance bias playing out in that example. Lots of testing going to find asymptomatic cases with a non-sterilizing vaccine. 

Hospital Cases

There are 10 people with Covid-19 in University Hospital Waterford, according to the latest HSE update - one of those is being treated in ICU.

It's a jump up from 7 on the previous 24 hours.

It's the highest number of cases on site there since March 31st.

Meanwhile, the latest CSO statistics indicate that one person has died in Waterford due to the virus in the week ending October 1st.

The total number of deaths from the virus in the county since the pandemic began is 110.

This.

For fuck's sake, if your COVID case count in a particular county bumps from 5 to 10, that's ZOMG A 100% INCREASE!!! VACCINES DON'T WORK!  If 1% of your cases end up in the hospital instead of 3%, THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE IN THE HOSPITAL, ZOMG VACCINES DON'T WORK!

As for the Vigi database, it's the same as Vaers -- the living embodiment of the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy.  These databases exist as a starting point.  If you get a vaccine, and two weeks later, have a heart attack, that may well be reported to Vigi.  That does not mean that the vaccine caused your heart attack.  Rather, it means that an adverse health event happened reasonably proximate to a vaccine, so that we can look at trends to see if there is some outsized relationship.  E.g., based on regular population dynamics, X% of people will have a heart attack in a given window of time.  Is the number of heart attacks observed in the vaccinated group significantly larger than that X%?  If so, then it's probably something to look into.  But the mere listing of "X number of people had heart attacks within a month of their vaccination" means......nothing.  A fat lot of nothing.  At least, not without a shitload more investigation and data.

But that doesn't stop folks like the poster above from citing it for disinformation purposes.  

Just now, Brisketexan said:

This.

For fuck's sake, if your COVID case count in a particular county bumps from 5 to 10, that's ZOMG A 100% INCREASE!!! VACCINES DON'T WORK!  If 1% of your cases end up in the hospital instead of 3%, THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE IN THE HOSPITAL, ZOMG VACCINES DON'T WORK!

As for the Vigi database, it's the same as Vaers -- the living embodiment of the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy.  These databases exist as a starting point.  If you get a vaccine, and two weeks later, have a heart attack, that may well be reported to Vigi.  That does not mean that the vaccine caused your heart attack.  Rather, it means that an adverse health event happened reasonably proximate to a vaccine, so that we can look at trends to see if there is some outsized relationship.  E.g., based on regular population dynamics, X% of people will have a heart attack in a given window of time.  Is the number of heart attacks observed in the vaccinated group significantly larger than that X%?  If so, then it's probably something to look into.  But the mere listing of "X number of people had heart attacks within a month of their vaccination" means......nothing.  A fat lot of nothing.  At least, not without a shitload more investigation and data.

But that doesn't stop folks like the poster above from citing it for disinformation purposes.  

You sound angry

5 minutes ago, maninblack said:

 

I don't understand what y'all are upset about in a Covid 19 discussion. I didn't collect it. The World Health Organization did. I asked if it has been posted. If you don't like it and want to dismiss it I don't care. It's out there though.

What’s out there?

3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Seems like you do care 

I don't care what you think. I just posted data from the World Health Organization. Asked if it had been discussed before. Obviously it hadn't and it apparently has your titties Ina twist.

5 minutes ago, maninblack said:

 

I don't understand what y'all are upset about in a Covid 19 discussion. I didn't collect it. The World Health Organization did. I asked if it has been posted. If you don't like it and want to dismiss it I don't care. It's out there though.

What do you think it means?  Go ahead, have some balls and say it.  If you don't have any balls, go rent some for the day to see how they fit.  But either way, quit being a chickenshit and post EXACTLY why you think that information is interesting, and what is interesting about it.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Brisketexan

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

I don't understand what y'all are upset about in a Covid 19 discussion. I didn't collect it. The World Health Organization did. I asked if it has been posted. If you don't like it and want to dismiss it I don't care. It's out there though.

Nobody (at least myself) is upset. Reporting raw number of ADE for vaccines that have been administered to billions of people is not particularly enlightening in isolation. People here have been discussing their own reactivity experiences.  We've even got a few with a few myocarditis reports and other more non-typical reactions.  It is known.  There is no biological plausibility for a good number of the reactions being captured in the WHO system. You need more robust methods that get to causal inference to make anything approaching definitive conclusions.  It's not dismissive, it's just understanding how to interpret the data being presented.   

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

This sounds like nonsense, but would love to see the rationale. 

It definitely sounds like nonsense.

In fact I recall Dr. Fauci recently advised folks worried about interaction between flu and covid vaccine to go ahead and get one shot in one arm and the other in the other, and to go ahead and get the flu shot now (as in October) because of concern of a twindemic this Fall.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/09/27/covid-19-vaccine-booster-flu-shot-timing-dr-fauci-sot-tsr-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/

 

Just now, Brisketexan said:

What do you think it means.  Go ahead, have some balls and say it.  If you don't have any balls, go rent some for the day to see how they fit.  But either way, quit being a chickenshit and post EXACTLY why you think that information is interesting, and what is interesting about it.

I think it means there are a lot of adverse effects from these vaccines that don't talked about or reported

7 minutes ago, maninblack said:

 

I don't understand what y'all are upset about in a Covid 19 discussion. I didn't collect it. The World Health Organization did. I asked if it has been posted. If you don't like it and want to dismiss it I don't care. It's out there though.

I'm not upset.  Are you?

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

You sound angry

I am.  People who use logical fallacies -- which are lies -- in order to push a position that downplays a medical treatment that is proven to help both individuals and all of us collectively avoid/mitigate negative outcomes really, really, really, really piss me off.  I am pissed off by people in the "I spread bullshit that helps cost people's lives" business.  I'm real particular and persnickety that way.

Just now, maninblack said:

I think it means there are a lot of adverse effects from these vaccines that don't talked about or reported

Show us where the WHO lists adverse effects from the vaccines. Be specific 

5 minutes ago, maninblack said:

I think it means there are a lot of adverse effects from these vaccines that don't talked about or reported

Except they do get talked about and reported.  Hell the CDC publishes the information on serious adverse reactions its own website:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

For public awareness and in the interest of transparency, CDC is providing timely updates on the following serious adverse events of interest:

• Anaphylaxis after COVID-19 vaccination is rare and has occurred in approximately 2 to 5 people per million vaccinated in the United States. Severe allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, can occur after any vaccination. If this occurs, vaccination providers can effectively and immediately treat the reaction. Learn more about COVID-19 vaccines and allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis.
• Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) after Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen (J&J/Janssen) COVID-19 vaccination is rare. As of September 29, 2021, more than 14.9 million doses of the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine have been given in the United States. CDC and FDA identified 47 confirmed reports of people who got the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and later developed TTS.  Women younger than 50 years old especially should be aware of the rare but increased risk of this adverse event. There are other COVID-19 vaccine options available for which this risk has not been seen. Learn more about J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS.
  • To date, two confirmed cases of TTS following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Moderna) have been reported to VAERS after more than 376 million doses of  mRNA COVID-19 vaccines administered in the United States. Based on available data, there is not an increased risk for TTS after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination.
• CDC and FDA are monitoring reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) in people who have received the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine. GBS is a rare disorder where the body’s immune system damages nerve cells, causing muscle weakness and sometimes paralysis. Most people fully recover from GBS, but some have permanent nerve damage. After more than 14.9 million J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine doses administered, there have been around 219 preliminary reports of GBS identified in VAERS as of September 29, 2021. These cases have largely been reported about 2 weeks after vaccination and mostly in men, many 50 years and older. CDC will continue to monitor for and evaluate reports of GBS occurring after COVID-19 vaccination and will share more information as it becomes available.
• Myocarditis and pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. As of September 29, 2021, VAERS has received 1,590 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis among people ages 30 and younger who received COVID-19 vaccine. Most cases have been reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), particularly in male adolescents and young adults. Through follow-up, including medical record reviews, CDC and FDA have confirmed 906 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis. CDC and its partners are investigating these reports to assess whether there is a relationship to COVID-19 vaccination. Learn more about COVID-19 vaccines and myocarditis.
• Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 396 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through October 4, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,390 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths pdf icon

Edited October 12, 2021 by DDD Dad

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

I think it means there are a lot of adverse effects from these vaccines that don't talked about or reported

Well then, what you've demonstrated is that you have no idea what that data represents, and you are full-on engaged in a post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy to push a conclusion that is not supported by that data.

12 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Come on man. There is a likely a significant surveillance bias playing out in that example. Lots of testing going to find asymptomatic cases with a non-sterilizing vaccine. 

Hospital Cases

There are 10 people with Covid-19 in University Hospital Waterford, according to the latest HSE update - one of those is being treated in ICU.

It's a jump up from 7 on the previous 24 hours.

It's the highest number of cases on site there since March 31st.

Meanwhile, the latest CSO statistics indicate that one person has died in Waterford due to the virus in the week ending October 1st.

The total number of deaths from the virus in the county since the pandemic began is 110.

Yeah but he’s just giving us “the data.” So it’s all good.

5 minutes ago, maninblack said:

I don't care what you think. I just posted data from the World Health Organization. Asked if it had been discussed before. Obviously it hadn't and it apparently has your titties Ina twist.

Can you give us some more of your “data?” We’ve been missing it here. 

4 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I'm not upset.  Are you?

Quick questions:

1.) Before today has anyone posted that? 

2.) Do you care?

Just now, maninblack said:

Quick questions:

1.) Before today has anyone posted that? 

2.) Do you care?

What is it you posted? Again be specific 

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

Can you give us some more of your “data?” We’ve been missing it here. 

It's the World Health Organization's data

Just now, maninblack said:

It's the World Health Organization's data

Data about what?

Infestations? 

 

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Show us where the WHO lists adverse effects from the vaccines. Be specific 

Literally go to the website I gave and type Covid-19 vaccine in the search. I'm not trying to trick you

Just now, maninblack said:

Quick questions:

1.) Before today has anyone posted that? 

2.) Do you care?

1. Posted what? Your "data" offered without explanation?  I don't know.  The fact that there have been 2 million adverse reactions to multiple vaccines that have been administered to hundreds of millions, if not more, around the world, without any detail as to the nature and severity of those reactions is a meaningless data point.  It became even more meaningless once you revealed that your rationale for posting it was based on a false premise (that adverse reactions were not being reported).

2. Sure.  I care to engage with posters who want to engage in a good faith discussion.  When posters hide behind "data" without explaining the point of posting it, I wonder what the point was in posting it.  Because no point was offered.  

 

17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

This sounds like nonsense, but would love to see the rationale. 

It is possible that there is other information out there, but this is what I know:

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/958848

Co-Administration the Focus

The new recommendation regarding co-administration of COVID-19 and flu vaccines dominated the update. Although Grohskopf admitted that there is a paucity of data regarding the safety of co-administration, experience with other vaccine combinations has demonstrated that immune response and potential side effects are generally similar when given alone or with other vaccines.

 

"Based on this prior experience, we do not anticipate any unusual or unexpected safety problems with giving COVID-19 vaccines and flu vaccines at the same time," she commented.

Americans are now free to get both vaccines at the same time, and Grohskopf was quick to point out that persons should not delay in receiving either vaccine.

"Ideally," she noted, "people should get their flu vaccines by the end of October. If COVID-19 booster shots are approved by FDA and recommended by ACIP, some Americans will not be eligible for their third dose of COVID-19 vaccine until later. People should go ahead and get their flu shot and then schedule their COVID-19 vaccine at the proper time."

Consistent with the CDC recommendations, Andrew Noymer, PhD, did not see any problems with co-administration of the COVID-19 and flu vaccines. "The seasonal flu shot is very well tolerated (has low rates of serious adverse events), as is the COVID shot," commented Noymer, of the Department of Population Health and Disease Prevention at the University of California, Irvine. He was not involved in preparing the CDC recommendations.

In an interview with Medscape Medical News, Noymer commented, "People often wonder, can the body handle two vaccines simultaneously? The answer is yes, and we do this all the time. The MMR vaccine given to children is, in fact, a cocktail of three vaccines, and the MMRV is a cocktail of four. So I'm not concerned by dual administration of influenza and COVID vaccines.

"In some Platonic-ideal sense, it would be better to do the vaccines 2 weeks apart, because then one can disentangle adverse effects," Noymer added. "But these are rare enough at this point that it doesn't concern me. The reason for the recommendation of both at once is attrition: some people who intend to come back for their second shot wind up just skipping it. Thus, do them both at once."

4 minutes ago, maninblack said:

It's the World Health Organization's data

You posted a misleading newspaper article you disingenuous fuck, not just the data.

Just now, DDD Dad said:

1. Posted what? Your "data" offered without explanation?  I don't know.  The fact that there have been 2 million adverse reactions to multiple vaccines that have been administered to hundreds of millions, if not more, around the world, without any detail as to the nature and severity of those reactions is a meaningless data point.  It became even more meaningless once you revealed that your rationale for posting it was based on a false premise (that adverse reactions were not being reported).

2. Sure.  I care to engage with posters who want to engage in a good faith discussion.  When posters hide behind "data" without explaining the point of posting it, I wonder what the point was in posting it.  Because no point was offered.  

 

1.) The World Health Organization's data as explained and linked

2.) This is in good faith. It's data. I can look at it and come to a conclusion. You might come to a different conclusion but I bet you haven't seen it before today.

3 minutes ago, maninblack said:

Literally go to the website I gave and type Covid-19 vaccine in the search. I'm not trying to trick you

No, you're just trolling now.

10 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yeah but he’s just giving us “the data.” So it’s all good.

The data are what the data are. Interpretation and causal inference are the problems. 

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

You posted a misleading newspaper article you disingenuous fuck, not just the data.

How is it misleading? I don't write for the paper. 

Just now, maninblack said:

How is it misleading? I don't write for the paper. 

Why are you a dumbass troll fuckstick? I have many questions too.

2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

It is possible that there is other information out there, but this is what I know:

 

The recommendation to do the shots in different arms makes sense.  My understanding is that the covid vaccine stays pretty localized to the admin site, most of the mrna is taken up into cells in the area and express spike.  Not sure about the flu shots though. 

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

1.) The World Health Organization's data as explained and linked

2.) This is in good faith. It's data. I can look at it and come to a conclusion. You might come to a different conclusion but I bet you haven't seen it before today.

I do find it curious that the data you've posted reflects adverse reactions years prior to the development of the vaccines in question.  But in light of the faulty reasoning behind your posting of this data, I'm not curious enough to understand why.

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The data are what the data are. Interpretation and causal inference are the problems. 

I know this is a safe space. I asked if it had been posted/discussed. It's obvious it hit a nerve. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by blacklab
User taking a day off for trolling

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

This is in good faith. It's data. I can look at it and come to a conclusion

Do you think your conclusions hold the same merit as the entire body of medical professionals that viewed the data and came to a different conclusion?

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

How is it misleading? I don't write for the paper. 

My neg finger is getting twitchy.

Just now, JimmyJames said:

Why are you a dumbass troll fuckstick? I have many questions too.

That's hurtful

Just now, Neonmoon said:

Do you think your conclusions hold the same merit as the entire body of medical professionals that viewed the data and came to a different conclusion?

Entire? Speaking in absolutes will get you spanked.

3 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

No, you're just trolling now.

He’s on a troll roll. Unfortunately those never hit 7.

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

I know this is a safe space. I asked if it had been posted/discussed. It's obvious it hit a nerve. 

It's worthy of discussion, and I think that we have checked that box. 

2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I do find it curious that the data you've posted reflects adverse reactions years prior to the development of the vaccines in question.  But in light of the faulty reasoning behind your posting of this data, I'm not curious enough to understand why.

World Health Organization

Maybe Covid vaccines at some level have been tested before. 

Just now, Anastasis said:

It's worthy of discussion, and I think that we have checked that box. 

We've checked anger and insults

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

We've checked anger and insults

You seem upset.  Do you need a hug?

Just now, DDD Dad said:

You seem upset.  Do you need a hug?

I'm good

Just now, maninblack said:

I'm good

Well just let me know.  I'm here to help.

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The recommendation to do the shots in different arms makes sense.  My understanding is that the covid vaccine stays pretty localized to the admin site, most of the mrna is taken up into cells in the area and express spike.  Not sure about the flu shots though. 

The influenza vaccine is the same. It mainly stays localized.

IM injections go into the deltoid because it is close to the lymph nodes under the armpit. The immune cells in the muscle tissue pick up the influenza antigens and present them to the lymph nodes where antibodies are produced.

14 minutes ago, maninblack said:

Literally go to the website I gave and type Covid-19 vaccine in the search. I'm not trying to trick you

I’m not trying to trick you either. And you clearly didn’t read the home page of that website. 
 

I’ll ask you once more

 

Show us where the WHO lists adverse effects from the vaccines. Be specific 

 

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The recommendation to do the shots in different arms makes sense.  My understanding is that the covid vaccine stays pretty localized to the admin site, most of the mrna is taken up into cells in the area and express spike.  Not sure about the flu shots though. 

when i did mine in march, it was right arm first, then left arm second. they were super professional, even had the chair prepped when i came in. 

didn't matter to me. stick me. let's get it done. you want to put the booster in my chest? let's do it.

Just now, hayden_horn said:

didn't matter to me. stick me. let's get it done. you want to put the booster in my chest? let's do it.

I requested the moderna booster (full strength, not the pussy ass half strength shit they are about to roll out) in my right gluteus but couldn't get any takers. So I just stuck my arm out the window.  

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I requested the moderna booster (full strength, not the pussy ass half strength shit they are about to roll out) in my right gluteus but couldn't get any takers. So I just stuck my arm out the window.  

in march, i drove all the way to san antonio. bougiest heb i ever seen in nw san antonio. but that's where i got my jabs