COVID-19 vaccine discussion

More promising news towards getting this thing in the rear view mirror.

 

2 hours ago, TexEx15 said:

More promising news towards getting this thing in the rear view mirror.

 

Let's gooooooooooo!

A highly effective treatment is a massive game changer

I haven’t kept up with this thread, but was surprised the Moderna booster was only a 50% dose when I got it yesterday. Had I known ahead of time, I might have crossed over to J&J or Pfizer. No J&J in the north half of Houston, apparently. 
 

I find it strange how some on this thread are so joyful or “pumped” about vaccinating their kids. I am clearly not anti-vax, but the risks to kids of Covid are still incredibly low, vaccination does not eliminate transmission to grandma or whoever, and the clotting and myocarditis risks are non-zero. I’m sure an anti-vaxxer has already brought it up here, but my wife (also a biomedical PhD) read directly from Moderna that Scandinavian countries stopped vaccinating under 30 because the benefits could not be statistically proven to outweigh the risks plus costs? Vaccinating is fine and everyone’s choice, but the zeal of parents making this choice for the kids and celebrating is odd. I am holding out until the J&J or another non-mRNA version is approved for kids for mine. We accepted our Moderna microchip 3.0 though. 

Had my 11 year old daughter scheduled for first shot next Saturday.  Tuesday she had a low fever 99.6 and complained of a headache.  She has displayed no other symptoms other then an ear ache so we took her to the Doctor yesterday.  They didn't think it was an ear or sinus infection and claimed they have seen Covid cases in kids with these symptoms, so they swabbed her brain.  Found out this afternoon she is positive.
I woke up today feeling like shit with a headache, sore throat and slight cough.  Had both Moderna shots back in April/May. Just took the home test and it was negative, but I will probably go get the swab tomorrow.  So far the Wife showing no symptoms.(she was 2X Pfizer in April)
 
 

I believe the thought now regarding breakthrough cases is that vaccinated people get exposed to unvaccinated people - and so get higher viral loads that cause break throughs. Not so much the vaccinated peeps infecting other vaccinated peeps.

Not final science, but it makes sense that being jabbed reduces both the number of virus expelled, and the ability of that positive vaccinated person’s viral deposit to infect other vaccinated people.

Anyone have any data otherwise?

1 hour ago, Murfdogg21 said:

I haven’t kept up with this thread, but was surprised the Moderna booster was only a 50% dose when I got it yesterday. Had I known ahead of time, I might have crossed over to J&J or Pfizer. No J&J in the north half of Houston, apparently. 
 

I find it strange how some on this thread are so joyful or “pumped” about vaccinating their kids. I am clearly not anti-vax, but the risks to kids of Covid are still incredibly low, vaccination does not eliminate transmission to grandma or whoever, and the clotting and myocarditis risks are non-zero. I’m sure an anti-vaxxer has already brought it up here, but my wife (also a biomedical PhD) read directly from Moderna that Scandinavian countries stopped vaccinating under 30 because the benefits could not be statistically proven to outweigh the risks plus costs? Vaccinating is fine and everyone’s choice, but the zeal of parents making this choice for the kids and celebrating is odd. I am holding out until the J&J or another non-mRNA version is approved for kids for mine. We accepted our Moderna microchip 3.0 though. 

The booster is nearly as effective as a full strength dose.

I haven’t kept up with this thread, but was surprised the Moderna booster was only a 50% dose when I got it yesterday. Had I known ahead of time, I might have crossed over to J&J or Pfizer. No J&J in the north half of Houston, apparently. 
 
I find it strange how some on this thread are so joyful or “pumped” about vaccinating their kids. I am clearly not anti-vax, but the risks to kids of Covid are still incredibly low, vaccination does not eliminate transmission to grandma or whoever, and the clotting and myocarditis risks are non-zero. I’m sure an anti-vaxxer has already brought it up here, but my wife (also a biomedical PhD) read directly from Moderna that Scandinavian countries stopped vaccinating under 30 because the benefits could not be statistically proven to outweigh the risks plus costs? Vaccinating is fine and everyone’s choice, but the zeal of parents making this choice for the kids and celebrating is odd. I am holding out until the J&J or another non-mRNA version is approved for kids for mine. We accepted our Moderna microchip 3.0 though. 

I made a similar post on this or another Covid thread in the last couple of months. My kids are over 25 and have been vaccinated (as have I and their mother) but if they were very young it would be a tougher decision. It’s clearly not an extreme or crazy decision to choose to not vaccinate your young children.

1 hour ago, Murfdogg21 said:

but the risks to kids of Covid are still incredibly low

What are you basing that on? Isn't long haul covid a serious risk for kids? And are there known long term risks of the vaccine? I haven't heard of any other than a tiny percentage developing myocarditis. The risk/reward analysis seems pretty straightforward.  

4 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

I haven’t kept up with this thread, but was surprised the Moderna booster was only a 50% dose when I got it yesterday. Had I known ahead of time, I might have crossed over to J&J or Pfizer. No J&J in the north half of Houston, apparently. 
 

I find it strange how some on this thread are so joyful or “pumped” about vaccinating their kids. I am clearly not anti-vax, but the risks to kids of Covid are still incredibly low, vaccination does not eliminate transmission to grandma or whoever, and the clotting and myocarditis risks are non-zero. I’m sure an anti-vaxxer has already brought it up here, but my wife (also a biomedical PhD) read directly from Moderna that Scandinavian countries stopped vaccinating under 30 because the benefits could not be statistically proven to outweigh the risks plus costs? Vaccinating is fine and everyone’s choice, but the zeal of parents making this choice for the kids and celebrating is odd. I am holding out until the J&J or another non-mRNA version is approved for kids for mine. We accepted our Moderna microchip 3.0 though. 

My daughter is 12, she can make her own decision about this vaccine when she turns 18. We have no way of knowing the long term effects of this vaccine on children. On another note, my wife's boss just tested positive for COVID. Vaccinated, with the booster. Don't blame him or anyone else for getting vaccinated but I believe the decision should be between an individual and their physician, not a mandate.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Longhornlove

3 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

I believe the thought now regarding breakthrough cases is that vaccinated people get exposed to unvaccinated people - and so get higher viral loads that cause break throughs. Not so much the vaccinated peeps infecting other vaccinated peeps.

Not final science, but it makes sense that being jabbed reduces both the number of virus expelled, and the ability of that positive vaccinated person’s viral deposit to infect other vaccinated people.

Anyone have any data otherwise?

I haven't looked specifically at this but it smells fishy to me. These vaccines have become too political to truly believe anything at this point. Seems everyone is pushing one agenda or another. For example, why is natural immunity completely ignored by the "science". So far from studies out of Israel, it appears there is validity to natural immunity. Doesn't even look like the US is even attempting mass studies on natural immunity.

20 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

My daughter is 12, she can make her own decision about this vaccine when she turns 18. We have no way of knowing the long term effects of this vaccine on children. On another note, my wife's boss just tested positive for COVID. Vaccinated, with the booster. Don't blame him or anyone else for getting vaccinated but I believe the decision should be between an individual and their physician, not a mandate.

Oh, you don't blame him for being vaccinated? That's awfully big of you.

 

6 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Oh, you don't blame him for being vaccinated? That's awfully big of you.

 

Yeah, I know you don't like me but really. Go ahead, show your ass.

Ah, the old "I know someone who's been vaccinated and got COVID...I'm just asking questions" bit.

"If I come in calmly and act like I'm just being rational..."

How many times do the numbers need to be presented? One is much less likely to die from COVID if they are vaccinated.  Suddenly, any new vaccine has to be perfect and stop you from even having a sniffle.  . 

Guess what? Your friend got COVID. He's vaccinated. It's now very unlikely he will die face down on a ventilator. 

That's a fucking win. 

Really wish everyone would stop the use of mandate.. It's not a mandate. No one is holding anyone down and vaccinating them. You do not have to get it.

BUT BUT BUT they might have to do something else they don't wanna do!! Freedom means never having to do anything you don't wanna do!!! (Except if you own a business and don't want to have unvaccinated customers or employees, then you should fuck off, but everyone else gets FREEEEEEEEEDOM

8 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

but the zeal of parents making this choice for the kids and celebrating is odd....

....

 I am holding out until the J&J or another non-mRNA version is approved for kids for mine. We accepted our Moderna microchip 3.0 though. 

A lot of it is those of us who want our kids to physically stay in school, because we've seen the harm of online schooling. If my kid gets directly exposed right now to a sick classmate, he's out of school for two weeks.  If he's vaccinated, he does not have to quarantine at home.  And the more of his classmates that are vaccinated, the less chances they are going to get it and/or transmit it, leading to there being any quarantines for the non-vaxxed kids in the first place.

And it's still happening in schools - happened at my nephew's school just a few weeks ago.  One kid had it, bunch of kids had to quarantine at home, then a couple of them tested positive, etc.  To top it off, the original kid had symptoms and the parents pretended/claimed it was allergies (he had a fever at school early in the morning, which led to the test).  To say other parents are pissed at them is an understatement.  It cost them time and money to have to keep their kids at home.

I've also got a friend whose kid has had severe issues after covid this past summer, even though many keep claiming it doesn't hurt little kids (I don't know the full details, but the kid was asthmatic and this really fucked him up).  A lot of us do not want to be in that category of fucking around and finding out that our kid is vulnerable in some way (friend wasn't fucking around, but I mean in terms of having access and instead choosing to skip the vaccine and crossing our fingers).

And finally, this is not some kind of fancy new technology - it's been around for many years, but it just never found the right conditions to be deployed on such a scale.

My father-in-law is a retired doctor (and worked in contagious diseases early in his career) and my mother-in-law and step-mother-in-law were also medical professionals (one a doctor the other currently a cardiac care nurse) and all three of them are quite fine with their grandkids getting the vaccines, and are even encouraging it.  

And on top of that, we know plenty of doctors and nurses in the area, and they are all cool with it/happy to get their kids vaccinated.

If I didn't know a bunch of medical professionals, if I didn't care if my kid had to come home for class for a few weeks if exposed, and if I didn't know people whose kids were affected by COVID, I would absolutely be more......willing to wait a while.

On 11/3/2021 at 11:40 AM, utee94 said:

Bottom line, talk to your kids' doctors' about it, to help make an educated decision.

And if your kids' doctor (or your doctor for that matter) is one of those "well, how do you feel about them getting the vaccine, because really, it's about what's going to make you feel comfortable and safe" walk right out the fucking door, because those are the doctors that tend to miss serious problems.

My aunt had one of those doctors, and she's in her mid-70s, diabetic, and has mild heart issues that she takes medication for.  When my cousins saw her mention her doctor was like that with her and so she didn't think she needed the vaccine, they lost their shit.

How did you do? I got the flu shot just over 24 hours ago and I felt nothing. Not even soreness in my arm. 
CVS offered me a booster but they only had Moderna. I am riding or dying with Pfizer. 

Try a different CVS location. Many of them have Pfizer.

Got my Moderna booster yesterday.  So far only a slightly sore arm, but my internet is the fastest I've ever seen it.

On 11/5/2021 at 10:01 AM, midtown said:

A highly effective treatment is a massive game changer

But what about potential long-term side effects th

Thursday I got my booster shot from the Moderna trial that I'm in after almost 14 months since my second shot. Instead of getting the regular booster, I signed up again for a new trial. I'm really enjoying this lab rat role.

I got a full dose (100 micrograms) of Moderna booster that is a slight modification from the original vaccine, with added protection from the Delta variant. Reaction was the same as my second shot, very sore arm, slight fever, achy, just worn out.   I was slightly nauseous with this one for a couple hours, never vomited though. Woke up this morning good as new, except for sore arm still. 

Is there anything better than 5g?  Cause I got it!

 

My 6 year old got her first shot today (Walgreens, NW Austin). She was bragging about it the rest of the day. No side effects yet, but we'll see how she feels tomorrow. 

And yes, I'm zealous. My grandmother turns 100 in February. We aren't taking chances and I'd like to see her for the holidays this year after missing last Christmas for obvious reasons. 

3 minutes ago, hornian said:

My 6 year old got her first shot today (Walgreens, NW Austin). She was bragging about it the rest of the day. No side effects yet, but we'll see how she feels tomorrow. 

And yes, I'm zealous. My grandmother turns 100 in February. We aren't taking chances and I'd like to see her for the holidays this year after missing last Christmas for obvious reasons. 

Look, I mean this in the nicest way possible.  Go see your Grandma.  Go act like it is a normal and regular day.  She is 100 and is no more likely to wake up tomorrow than not wake up.  My Grandpa turned 100 in early December last year and passed away Christmas Eve.  The last time I saw him was on his birthday via Zoom.  He was fucking miserable any second he was here without someone he knew and recognized next to him.  Go see her. 

12 hours ago, hornian said:

My 6 year old got her first shot today (Walgreens, NW Austin). She was bragging about it the rest of the day. No side effects yet, but we'll see how she feels tomorrow. 

And yes, I'm zealous. My grandmother turns 100 in February. We aren't taking chances and I'd like to see her for the holidays this year after missing last Christmas for obvious reasons. 

Our pediatrician had sign ups before the vaccine was approved that we’re going fast, so our appointment wasn’t for 2 more weeks. Saw this post and decided to see if it was easy to get a Walgreens appointment.  Quite a few available, even some today. Was able to get 2 appointments for my kids at 11 in Baytown today. Thank You. 

On 11/5/2021 at 10:20 AM, Murfdogg21 said:

but my wife (also a biomedical PhD) read directly from Moderna that Scandinavian countries stopped vaccinating under 30 because the benefits could not be statistically proven to outweigh the risks plus costs? 

Can you get a link to this so I can read what they say the risks are?  Cost is an interesting driver of the decision making. 
 

I’ll also take a quick off the cuff stab at the rest of your post- vaccinating my 12 year olds lowers their risk of getting covid, lowers their risk of having serious short or long term effects from covid, and lowers their risk of infecting others like my wife and I which in turn lowers our risk of the same. 
and the risks are a slightly increased chance of myocarditis?  Easy choice. 
 

as far as long term risks, we know about most of the ingredients. We are less sure about the mRNA and the lipid capsule. mRNA are in our bodies at all times, as they are necessary for life as our bodies transcribe dna into proteins. We have processes to break them down and there’s likely data on how long they last in our system as the clinical trial patients get follow up testing.  The lipid capsule I’m less familiar with and wouldn’t hazard any guesses about its formulation or what that might mean. 

17 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Can you get a link to this so I can read what they say the risks are?  Cost is an interesting driver of the decision making. 
 

I’ll also take a quick off the cuff stab at the rest of your post- vaccinating my 12 year olds lowers their risk of getting covid, lowers their risk of having serious short or long term effects from covid, and lowers their risk of infecting others like my wife and I which in turn lowers our risk of the same. 
and the risks are a slightly increased chance of myocarditis?  Easy choice. 
 

as far as long term risks, we know about most of the ingredients. We are less sure about the mRNA and the lipid capsule. mRNA are in our bodies at all times, as they are necessary for life as our bodies transcribe dna into proteins. We have processes to break them down and there’s likely data on how long they last in our system as the clinical trial patients get follow up testing.  The lipid capsule I’m less familiar with and wouldn’t hazard any guesses about its formulation or what that might mean. 

His post is not entirely accurate.

Quote

 

• Iceland has not stopped using the Moderna vaccine. It continues to administer it for booster shots for those 60 and older.

• Sweden has temporarily suspended the use of Moderna for those under 30 years old.

• None of the other countries — Finland, Norway and Denmark — have completely stopped using Moderna for all people under age 30. Finland is not using Moderna for males under 30 years old; Norway recommends that people under age 18 and men under age 30 take Pfizer instead of Moderna but does not require it; and Denmark said those under 18 can request Moderna if desired.

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/nov/04/facebook-posts/facebook-posts-get-details-wrong-about-use-moderna/

52 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

Our pediatrician had sign ups before the vaccine was approved that we’re going fast, so our appointment wasn’t for 2 more weeks. Saw this post and decided to see if it was easy to get a Walgreens appointment.  Quite a few available, even some today. Was able to get 2 appointments for my kids at 11 in Baytown today. Thank You. 

Our pediatrician screwed around with my 12yo's vaccine appointment  and moved it on us twice.  The second time they changed it not only to another different time, but to their sister location which is about 10 miles away (we deliberately chose their main location because it's only a few blocks away).  I finally said eff it and just got the shots at Walgreens.

One of the things I've said all along, since we first started seeing vaccines roll out almost a year ago, is that they need to make it SUPER-easy to get,  The anti-vaxers are never going to get it, but there is a population of people that would be willing to get it, but only if it requires minimal effort.  It needs to be as easy to get as a flu shot, where you can just walk in to your doctor's office, or a pharmacy, just about anywhere, and get it immediately without a wait and without an appointment.  

We're not there yet.  We need to get there.

 

 

5 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

as far as long term risks, we know about most of the ingredients. We are less sure about the mRNA and the lipid capsule. mRNA are in our bodies at all times, as they are necessary for life as our bodies transcribe dna into proteins. We have processes to break them down and there’s likely data on how long they last in our system as the clinical trial patients get follow up testing.  The lipid capsule I’m less familiar with and wouldn’t hazard any guesses about its formulation or what that might mean. 

Posting legitimate science based concerns on here paints you as an anti-science trumpster, yet I continue. Saying this particular mRNA must be safe because we naturally have mRNA is about as valid logic as saying cholera, ricin, or botulinum are safe proteins because we have other proteins. Is it most likely safe for most people? Of course. Could there be unknown side effects that we don’t understand until years down the road? Certainly. Could the metabolism and cell/DNA/RNA replication differences between children (or even more so infants and toddlers when that day comes soon) and adults results in different reactions? I can’t say that’s impossible or even unlikely. This is a synthetic mRNA designed to create a representation of the 3D conformation of a spike protein, with different start and stop sequences and intermediate stabilizing elements included that are unnatural. If I were concerned, it would be more about the introduction of this mRNA in a young system than the lipid (aside from some allergic reaction to the carrier materials). Anyway, that’s why I originally posted that I would feel more comfortable with the little kids getting the J&J version today and until there is wide spread safety data and, although under different circumstances I might inject my kids with Pfizer (or Moderna), I would be more cautious than celebratory. 

The adenovirus vector vaccines creep me out.  Always have.  More comfortable myself with the mRNA tech.  That said, the benefit/risk argument for the youngest of kids is extremely thin.  People should be able to acknowledge this and have some reasonable posturing for educated parents taking different approaches.  Chances of anything involving reasonable in this discussion pretty slim though.  

 

FTR, my adolescent daughter is fully vaxxed with PFE. Leaning towards just getting one PFE shot into the younger kids and slow playing the second shot. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Anastasis

Got the Moderna booster today (10.5 months after 2nd Moderna dose) and continuing with tradition I picked up lunch at Texas Chili Parlor afterward. 

22 hours ago, Anastasis said:

The adenovirus vector vaccines creep me out.  Always have.  More comfortable myself with the mRNA tech.  That said, the benefit/risk argument for the youngest of kids is extremely thin.  People should be able to acknowledge this and have some reasonable posturing for educated parents taking different approaches.  Chances of anything involving reasonable in this discussion pretty slim though.  

 

FTR, my adolescent daughter is fully vaxxed with PFE. Leaning towards just getting one PFE shot into the younger kids and slow playing the second shot. 

I've scheduled my kids (7 and 5 years old) to get their first shot mid december, and then I'm going to wait 10 weeks to get their second shot.

2 hours ago, Dontshootrude said:

I've scheduled my kids (7 and 5 years old) to get their first shot mid december, and then I'm going to wait 10 weeks to get their second shot.

Seems reasonable. Ten weeks from mid Dec should be enough to at least resolve any early signals.  We're doing first shots this week, undecided how long to wait on the second.  Will probably assess the amount of exposures and the results as they roll out and then pull the trigger.  No set time frame going into it.  

Will be interesting to see the rate of vaccination. I think I saw that 5-12 represents ~28 million people. Didn’t see any numbers published yesterday. I’m guessing we won’t get more than 50% of that number vax’d between the adult parents that don’t get vax’d in the first place with the addition of the parents that have their shots but have reservations and concerns for their kids. 

On 11/7/2021 at 9:55 AM, bolverk said:

His post is not entirely accurate.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/nov/04/facebook-posts/facebook-posts-get-details-wrong-about-use-moderna/

 

1 hour ago, UT_OB1 said:

Will be interesting to see the rate of vaccination. I think I saw that 5-12 represents ~28 million people. Didn’t see any numbers published yesterday. I’m guessing we won’t get more than 50% of that number vax’d between the adult parents that don’t get vax’d in the first place with the addition of the parents that have their shots but have reservations and concerns for their kids. 

I predict low, to quite low. 

I suspect changing the definition of fully vaccinated and modifying restrictions is next on the docket here after they push through OSHA mandate. 

Results from the French study as described by AFP (their AP) shows the risks from Moderna to still be vanishingly low.

But, out of an abundance of caution, stick with Pfizer for the under 30 set. Availability is near universal anyways.

Quote

 

Paris (AFP) – French health authorities advised against use of the Moderna Covid jab for people under 30 late yesterday, after a nation-wide study confirmed a slight risk of cardiac inflammation associated with mRNA vaccines.

The study from Epi-Phare, an independent medicines safety research group that works closely with the French government, confirmed previous findings -- while noting cases are rare and do not cast doubt on the effectiveness of the shots.

It looked at all people in France aged 12 to 50 who were hospitalised for myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) or pericarditis (inflammation of the tissue surrounding the heart) between May 15 and August 31 of this year.

Results showed that vaccines from both Pfizer and Moderna increase the risk of these illnesses within seven days of vaccination.

The risk, while low, is higher in men under 30 years old and particularly after a second dose of the Moderna vaccine, which the study found possibly responsible for some 132 cases of myocarditis per million doses given.

For Pfizer the result was nearly 80 percent lower, with the number of cases per million doses estimated at 27.

In women under 30, Moderna may have led to 37 cases of myocarditis per million doses.

Risk of pericarditis is also greater after a second dose of Moderna in people under 30, with 18 cases per million doses given in young men.

No deaths among patients hospitalised with these illnesses following vaccination have been reported.

The US has also delayed approval of the Moderna jab for young people, though last week they recommended use of the Pfizer vaccine for children ages five to 11 after reviewing the risks of myocarditis.

Paediatric cardiologist Matthew Oster, commenting on the Pfizer recommendation at the time, said he was "much more worried" about the risks of Covid to young people than risks posed by the vaccine.

Mahmoud Zureik, who heads up Epi-Phare, echoed the sentiment.

"When you measure the effectiveness of vaccines against severe cases of Covid-19 against the risks that exist but are rare... the value of vaccines is not in doubt," he told AFP.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211109-france-advises-against-moderna-for-under-30s-over-rare-heart-risk

 

Yeah but French people are pussies.

10 hours ago, Satoshi said:

I suspect changing the definition of fully vaccinated and modifying restrictions is next on the docket here after they push through OSHA mandate. 

Interesting interview today on the NYT "The Daily" podcast with Dr. Fauci.  He talks about his views on vaccine mandates, boosters, and where things might be headed in the future regarding the pandemic.

The Daily

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

Interesting interview today on the NYT "The Daily" podcast with Dr. Fauci.  He talks about his views on vaccine mandates, boosters, and where things might be headed in the future regarding the pandemic.

The Daily

Summary?  We're fucked, right?  I mean, I presume that's the outcome no matter what the issue these days, but still.  I GOTS TA KNOW.

9 y/o came down with covid this past weekend. Bad headache for a day followed by a small amount of congestion, and that's it...happy she didn't suffer any further. Wife and I both have had three shots and continue to test negative. 

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Summary?  We're fucked, right?  I mean, I presume that's the outcome no matter what the issue these days, but still.  I GOTS TA KNOW.

Nah.

Let's see.  He talked somewhat optimistically about the fact that we seem to have peaked from the Delta surge but noted concern that the slope downward is not as steep as it was upward, and worried that it might flatten at a high daily rate of infection.  That, coupled with waning vaccine immunity over from infection and hospitalization was a noted concern. With case rates high, especially with a highly contagious variant, it increases the potential for breakthrough infections and negative outcomes across the population, and extending pandemic conditions indefinitely.

He personally comes down strongly in favor of boosters for all as a necessity rather than an luxury along with the need to vaccinate as many unvaccinated as possible.

He also said that while he personally would prefer we not mandate vaccinations, as a practical matter he believes mandates have been shown to be very effective at increasing the rate of vaccination.

In all, he came across as he always has (at least to me).  Generally reasonable with his takes, and offering some interesting insights into his experience dealing with the pandemic over the last two years.  Worth 20 minutes of your time on a drive home (or less if you listen at 1.5x or 2x speed).

Edited November 12, 2021 by DDD Dad

On 11/7/2021 at 1:37 PM, Murfdogg21 said:

Posting legitimate science based concerns on here paints you as an anti-science trumpster, yet I continue. Saying this particular mRNA must be safe because we naturally have mRNA is about as valid logic as saying cholera, ricin, or botulinum are safe proteins because we have other proteins. Is it most likely safe for most people? Of course. Could there be unknown side effects that we don’t understand until years down the road? Certainly. Could the metabolism and cell/DNA/RNA replication differences between children (or even more so infants and toddlers when that day comes soon) and adults results in different reactions? I can’t say that’s impossible or even unlikely. This is a synthetic mRNA designed to create a representation of the 3D conformation of a spike protein, with different start and stop sequences and intermediate stabilizing elements included that are unnatural. If I were concerned, it would be more about the introduction of this mRNA in a young system than the lipid (aside from some allergic reaction to the carrier materials). Anyway, that’s why I originally posted that I would feel more comfortable with the little kids getting the J&J version today and until there is wide spread safety data and, although under different circumstances I might inject my kids with Pfizer (or Moderna), I would be more cautious than celebratory. 

You know enough legitimate science to write a few words, but not remotely understand the meaning.

Could cell replication, DNA replication and RNA replication be different between children and adults and thus cause a reaction with the vaccine? This doesn't even make any sense. Please point to the legitimate science supporting this concern.

It's not 'designed to create a representation of a 3D conformation'. It's a message to make a string of amino acids which make up a protein. The '3D structure' is built by your own cell machinery. 

Unnatural start and stop codons? Explain how this impacts the translated product, please. Intermediate stabilizing elements? 

Approximately 7.4 billion doses administered as of today. 

What do we do with the 20-30% of adult Americans who have decided they are smarter, better informed, and generally just better people than the rest of us in spite of all credible evidence to the contrary?   Wall them off in Utah?  Seems fair, it's pretty there.  They're accepting of nutty ideas.  Good skiiing.    

Let them walk among themselves. 
 

scientists are too polite to mention the obvious.  Extinction in certain sub-populations leads to herd immunity just as effectively as any other exterior factor.  We are ridding ourselves of undesirable Americans every single day for the greater good of the Reich.  
 

if we can’t breed them out of existence, we’ll ‘evacuate’ them out of existence. 

1 hour ago, Txzen said:

You know enough legitimate science to write a few words, but not remotely understand the meaning.

Could cell replication, DNA replication and RNA replication be different between children and adults and thus cause a reaction with the vaccine? This doesn't even make any sense. Please point to the legitimate science supporting this concern.

It's not 'designed to create a representation of a 3D conformation'. It's a message to make a string of amino acids which make up a protein. The '3D structure' is built by your own cell machinery. 

Unnatural start and stop codons? Explain how this impacts the translated product, please. Intermediate stabilizing elements? 

Approximately 7.4 billion doses administered as of today. 

If you read my posts, it was about caution in juvenile patients, particularly infants and toddlers. The 7.4 billion doses with <12 months safety data haven’t been going into little ones. 
 

Please do not insult my scientific chops if you don’t understand that the 3-D confirmation of the natural spike protein is dependent on its molecular interaction with the other proteins of the virus shell. Because the other proteins of the virus are not present in the output of the vaccine, the ingenious work was to insert other amino acids to create synthetic bonds that could accomplish the same 3-D confirmation without needing the neighboring proteins. 

Just now, Murfdogg21 said:

If you read my posts, it was about caution in juvenile patients, particularly infants and toddlers. The 7.4 billion doses with <12 months safety data haven’t been going into little ones. 
 

Please do not insult my scientific chops if you don’t understand that the 3-D confirmation of the natural spike protein is dependent on its molecular interaction with the other proteins of the virus shell. Because the other proteins of the virus are not present in the output of the vaccine, the ingenious work was to insert other amino acids to create synthetic bonds that could accomplish the same 3-D confirmation without needing the neighboring proteins. 

Nice way to deflect your premise about differences in mRNA translation between a 12 year old and an adult. Or the impact said age on some processing of a proline substitution. There are no chops to insult. 

23 minutes ago, Txzen said:

Nice way to deflect your premise about differences in mRNA translation between a 12 year old and an adult. Or the impact said age on some processing of a proline substitution. There are no chops to insult. 

Since I don't understand a word either of you is saying, I just want to thank you for posting the live photo of your discussion with Murf as your avatar.  Visual aids are always helpful.

Edited November 12, 2021 by idigTexas
OU sucks

AISD parents who want their kids vaccinated, AISD is having a massive vaccine clinic this weekend.  Free, etc., check your text messages/emails.