COVID-19 vaccine discussion

Brilliant idea to do this in the middle of an unprecedented supply chain crisis.  And for what?  Solo truck driver dropping off his load in Montana - how much transmission is going to occur? 

Certainly less transmission than dropping off a load with South Austin's Mom.

 

7 minutes ago, Cement said:

Brilliant idea to do this in the middle of an unprecedented supply chain crisis.  And for what?  Solo truck driver dropping off his load in Montana - how much transmission is going to occur? 

Certainly less transmission than dropping off a load with South Austin's Mom.

 

Still waiting on my company to roll out how they are going to handle the 100+ employee vaccine or testing requirement. Head still in sand acting like it isn’t going to happen. 

I work for a huge corp and they cited the EO for federal contractor and subs to adopt vaccine mandates.  Either get vaxxed by x date, submit a reasonable accommodation request or get fucked.  Set early Jan as date for all employees returning to office.  They are allowing 2 days/wk to WFH.  Used to be 1 day a week, but i never did it.

 

Got Moderna boostered a few weeks ago, came in >2500 for S protein and negative for prior covid infection.  Should be good to go for a while!

Got Pfizer boosted on  9/7. Blood draw yesterday. >2500.

Been dealing with an overnight scratchy throat for four days now. Got concerned, took one of our instant tests…negative. So, just allergies I guess.

21 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

My daughter just got her booster this morning (Moderna).  Her arm started hurting almost right away, and she's already starting to feel shitty.  

I was fine on the first two, the booster hit me like a freight train.  It lasted a day.

So my sainted mother only got one shot because she had an unexpected allergic reaction to it, so her doctor recommended against getting the second.  I disagreed with her doctor, knowing that the reaction was easily treated. 
so she started getting nervous about her vax protection status now that it is 6 months past the one shot, so her doc did an antibody test. It came back at 50. 
 

She seemed thrilled to have detectable levels of antibodies. I am less thrilled with that number, knowing where it falls on the scale.

but everything I found online says we don’t yet know what level correlates to good protection, studies are ongoing.  I ended up telling my mother that I don’t like her doctor’s perceived confidence, but based on what is out there I don’t think a second opinion will do any good as the true answer is we just don’t know, but that some antibodies are obviously better than none. 

31 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Been dealing with an overnight scratchy throat for four days now. Got concerned, took one of our instant tests…negative. So, just allergies I guess.

Mold has been high this week.

I think ragweed is up as well, Brisket.  I think we figured out we don't live that far from one another and my throat has been scratchy as hell.  Eyes are irritated as well, something's just in the air 'round here.  

39 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Been dealing with an overnight scratchy throat for four days now. Got concerned, took one of our instant tests…negative. So, just allergies I guess.

Have you been tested for throat aids?

2 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Have you been tested for throat aids?

At this point, given his proclivities...it's probably just Throat HIV

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

but everything I found online says we don’t yet know what level correlates to good protection, studies are ongoing.  I ended up telling my mother that I don’t like her doctor’s perceived confidence, but based on what is out there I don’t think a second opinion will do any good as the true answer is we just don’t know, but that some antibodies are obviously better than none. 

Paper out this week gives some perspective. I haven't had the time to look into the specific tests that were performed in this study, and how to bump the CARES numbers up against them or if you can at all, but provides some evidence that neutralizing titers are correlated with protection.  This may or may not be relevant longer out, or with boosters, but an interesting data point. 

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm3425?

In the coronavirus efficacy (COVE) phase 3 clinical trial, vaccine recipients were assessed for neutralizing and binding antibodies as correlates of risk for COVID-19 disease and as correlates of protection. These immune markers were measured at second vaccination and 4 weeks later, with values reported in standardized WHO International Units. All markers were inversely associated with COVID-19 risk and directly associated with vaccine efficacy. Vaccine recipients with post-vaccination 50% neutralization titers 10, 100, and 1000 had estimated vaccine efficacy of 78% (95% confidence interval 54, 89%), 91% (87, 94%), and 96% (94, 98%), respectively. These results help define immune marker correlates of protection and may guide approval decisions for mRNA COVID-19 vaccines and other COVID-19 vaccines.

 

 

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

Have you been tested for throat aids?

 

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

At this point, given his proclivities...it's probably just Throat HIV

you insensitive fucks....it COULD be throat Ebola.  Didja think of that, smart guys?

39 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

neutralization titers

I like that I regularly read the word "titers" as "titters."  Because intellectually, I'm an 11 year old boy.

6 hours ago, kevwun said:

Mold has been high this week.

It’s his throat, not his dick.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Judge Roybeanbag

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I like that I regularly read the word "titers" as "titters."  Because intellectually, I'm an 11 year old boy.

neutralization tites, imo. 

Got a package in the mail from Texas Cares today. After the first set of draws, 37% of children over 5 tested positive for natural antibodies, and 51% of them had reported zero symptoms. Little disease spreaders. 

Moderna 2/4 & 3/4;

Spike ABs 08/26 @ 805;

Moderna full dose 8/28;

Spike ABs 11/24 @ >2500.

 

ETA: Still no nucleocapsid seroconversion. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Anastasis

On 11/24/2021 at 11:12 AM, Deej said:

Got Pfizer boosted on  9/7. Blood draw yesterday. >2500.

Pfizer is for the poors 

On 11/23/2021 at 7:35 PM, gyroprotagonist said:

I work for a huge corp and they cited the EO for federal contractor and subs to adopt vaccine mandates.  Either get vaxxed by x date, submit a reasonable accommodation request or get fucked.  Set early Jan as date for all employees returning to office.  They are allowing 2 days/wk to WFH.  Used to be 1 day a week, but i never did it.

 

The hospital systems in San Antonio have been very liberal with the exemptions. Just click a button and you get approved from what I’ve heard. I wonder if it’s like that in the corporate world. 

Second Pfizer was 3/1, and first Texas Cares blood draw was roughly middle of August at 765. Pfizer booster was 10/1 with second blood draw on Monday at >2500. Fortunately, still haven’t had Covid.

This is fucking amazing in terms of the Omicron variant

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/covid-omicron-variant-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-reworked-100-days

Quote

"As always, we will continue to follow the science as we examine the best approaches to protecting people against COVID-19," Pfizer wrote. "In the event that vaccine-escape variant emerges, Pfizer and BioNTech expect to be able to develop and produce a tailor-made vaccine against that variant in approximately 100 days, subject to regulatory approval."

 

I'm rolling with that new 6G chip as soon as it's available. 

We're fucked when the necronomicon variant hits. 

1 minute ago, Deej said:

We're fucked when the necronomicon variant hits. 

Just remember the three magic words.

And remember to take your COVID pill...but make sure it's the Pfizer one, and not the Merck one.  Although the Merck one can still help you. Maybe.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/merck-says-covid-19-pill-cuts-hospitalization-death-risk-by-30-2021-11-26/

Quote

Merck & Co (MRK.N) said on Friday updated data from its study of its experimental COVID-19 pill showed the drug was significantly less effective in cutting hospitalizations and deaths than previously reported.

The drugmaker said its pill showed a 30% reduction in hospitalizations and deaths, based on data from 1,433 patients. In October, its data showed a roughly 50% efficacy, based on data from 775 patients. The drug, molnupiravir, was developed with partner Ridgeback Biotherapeutics.

Quote

The lower efficacy of Merck's drug could have big implications in terms of whether countries continue to buy the pill. Interim data from 1,200 participants in Pfizer Inc's (PFE.N) trial for its experimental pill, Paxlovid, showed an 89% reduction in hopsitalizations and deaths.

Merck's shares fell 3.5% to $79.39 in morning trading.

 

Dave and I still rolling with J & J. No problems to report. 

May I ask a stupid question?

I was reading a discussion on another site re: the Omicron variant.  One of the guys, with a medical background, stated that a mutation is never as strong as the original (virus).  

I can't imagine this is correct; however, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.  

May I ask a stupid question?
I was reading a discussion on another site re: the Omicron variant.  One of the guys, with a medical background, stated that a mutation is never as strong as the original (virus).  
I can't imagine this is correct; however, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.  

The WHO don’t know or haven’t really reported much about this variant. Most things I’ve seen say they should have an idea of severity and vaccine efficacy in ten to 14 days.

2 minutes ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

May I ask a stupid question?

I was reading a discussion on another site re: the Omicron variant.  One of the guys, with a medical background, stated that a mutation is never as strong as the original (virus).  

I can't imagine this is correct; however, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.  

I have no idea, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn not too long ago.

NIH says the second and third waves of the Spanish Flu were far deadlier then the first wave.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291398/

The third wave had just as high of a mortality rate as the second, but the amount of overseas travel had slowed way down (due to the war being over and hundreds of thousands of troops no longer making oceanic trips to various continents) so not as many died, from what I recall.

Probably have to ask armybrat about it.

Good luck to everyone. The whole "stay at home" shit didn't work. It wasn't feasible. Or realistic. I got my shots and will will get my booster and it doesn't matter.  It is mutating and coming around. I did my part as did millions who stayed at home and got vaccinated for what? People who were going to die anyway? Shit tomorrow is promised to no one. We have been living in fear of this shit and I am sorry it seems like time has run out on the people who wanted life shut down. It will find its way around the vaccinations because that is what a lab created virus does. It mutates. 

12 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

It will find its way around the vaccinations because that is what a lab created virus does. It mutates. 

Not at all sure that a virus needs to be lab created to mutate.  Look at recent history as to how the annual flu shots have been hit or miss as to the efficacy related to the strain that will be going around in a given year.

I don’t know that it was a good idea to shut down Operation Warp Speed (and fire the scientist in charge) in early 2021. 
 
Also, to Nicole’s point above- Covid ain’t going away. It’s time for the government and news providers to recognize and acknowledge something- if you have a BMI that puts you at elevated risk of a bad outcome, you really ought to lose weight. Most of the underlying conditions that put (even the vaccinated) patients at higher risk are associated with being far (diabetes, high blood pressure). There is a direct result between high BMI and bad outcomes. 
 
This country actually got more obese since March 2020 (it’s criminal that we let the childhood obesity get worse) and that needs to change. Again, this disease is here to stay. People have time to lose the weight. 
 
The way I see it- there are three things to help protect you when (not if) you get Covid- being young, being fit and being vaccinated. There is no excuse for not having two out of three (ideally three out of three). 

Edited November 27, 2021 by statsman

9 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

May I ask a stupid question?

I was reading a discussion on another site re: the Omicron variant.  One of the guys, with a medical background, stated that a mutation is never as strong as the original (virus).  

I can't imagine this is correct; however, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.  

The Delta, a mutation, was stronger than the Wuhan, the original virus. 

If he has a medical background it’s because he’s taking a selfie in front of a hospital 

9 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

May I ask a stupid question?

I was reading a discussion on another site re: the Omicron variant.  One of the guys, with a medical background, stated that a mutation is never as strong as the original (virus).  

I can't imagine this is correct; however, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.  

The goal of all organisms is to procreate making an ideal viral one that can harbor the disease and spread the disease for as long as possible. If the host dies too quickly, it limits the spread of the disease. So viruses mutate in a way to increase spread without quickly killing the host. Since there is no benefit but instead actual harm for the virus if it kills quickly, it generally does not occur.

I guess it wasn't as dumb a question as I originally thought.  My thinking was along the lines of, "Yes, a mutation might make the actual virus weaker than the original copy; however, the change could affect a host in a more deadly way".  Anyway, thanks for the information.  

9 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Good luck to everyone. The whole "stay at home" shit didn't work. It wasn't feasible. Or realistic. I got my shots and will will get my booster and it doesn't matter.  It is mutating and coming around. I did my part as did millions who stayed at home and got vaccinated for what? People who were going to die anyway? Shit tomorrow is promised to no one. We have been living in fear of this shit and I am sorry it seems like time has run out on the people who wanted life shut down. It will find its way around the vaccinations because that is what a lab created virus does. It mutates. 

Wow such words of wisdom

So we’re learning the greek alphabet slowly but in a way that will be hard to forget.  We’ve got that going for us.  I previously only knew the letters used on campus. 

20 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Wow such words of wisdom

Go floss yourself. 

You can say fuck here Nicole.

14 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

You can say fuck here Nicole.

I don’t really skirmish with posters. Occasionally I get drunk and dive stupid into the CR to tell them Biden sucks. But you neg rep a post or poster? I avoid this at all costs. 

10 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Good luck to everyone. The whole "stay at home" shit didn't work. It wasn't feasible. Or realistic. I got my shots and will will get my booster and it doesn't matter.  It is mutating and coming around. I did my part as did millions who stayed at home and got vaccinated for what? People who were going to die anyway? Shit tomorrow is promised to no one. We have been living in fear of this shit and I am sorry it seems like time has run out on the people who wanted life shut down. It will find its way around the vaccinations because that is what a lab created virus does. It mutates. 

torbush

5 hours ago, statsman said:

I don’t know that it was a good idea to shut down Operation Warp Speed (and fire the scientist in charge) in early 2021. 
 
Also, to Nicole’s point above- Covid ain’t going away. It’s time for the government and news providers to recognize and acknowledge something- if you have a BMI that puts you at elevated risk of a bad outcome, you really ought to lose weight. Most of the underlying conditions that put (even the vaccinated) patients at higher risk are associated with being far (diabetes, high blood pressure). There is a direct result between high BMI and bad outcomes. 
 
This country actually got more obese since March 2020 (it’s criminal that we let the childhood obesity get worse) and that needs to change. Again, this disease is here to stay. People have time to lose the weight. 
 
The way I see it- there are three things to help protect you when (not if) you get Covid- being young, being fit and being vaccinated. There is no excuse for not having two out of three (ideally three out of three). 

As a middle aged man carrying a few extra pounds and some level of increased risk of serious illness, I would just like to say... 

 

It will be interesting to see what lessons are taken from this, and if any can be taken from it given how polarized things are.  The county next to ours (rural, low population density, low tourism) never should have been shut down until about a month ago.  There were very few cases all last year when shit was closed.  Now it’s at a 30+% positivity rate, but there will be shots fired if the county leadership tries to shut down again now that it’s actually critical to do so.

That’s a great point. We shut down 20 months ago to “flatten a curve” that really was still flat in 99.9% of the country. We shot that bullet too soon in most of the country. Would have been nice to have saved it for later. 

24 minutes ago, statsman said:

That’s a great point. We shut down 20 months ago to “flatten a curve” that really was still flat in 99.9% of the country. We shot that bullet too soon in most of the country. Would have been nice to have saved it for later. 

If you are going to revisit history, I think it's important to remember that in March 2020, testing and surveillance were nowhere near what we have now.  Shutting down the whole country was logical because we didn't have enough information otherwise - flattening the curve was always going to affect communities where the virus was not as rampant, but we didn't know which communities at the time.

Shutdowns now can be targeted and risks are overall much lower in the aggregate with mass-scale testing, surveillance, vaccines, and therapeutics all part of the toolkit now.

That omicron shit is already in Europe. Fucking travelers stop traveling damnit. It’s going to wind up being like The Stand. All these sacrifices we’ve made for what? Don’t take this the wrong way… I’ve done and will always do what I can to help save lives but we weren’t meant to sacrifice years of our lives to save certain people with shit immune systems. 

Yes, there’s that. And there is also the the thinking in March, 2020, that is we were just diligent enough about locking down, if we could simulate what Singapore and New Zealand were doing, we could stop Covid. Of course, we know now that we never could, that the chance to stop Covid passed in November 2019, but that thinking lingered on much longer than it should have. 

On 11/23/2021 at 2:12 PM, C-Man said:

Looking to schedule my booster this weekend. I have to strategically plan mine because both doses of Pfizer made me feel pretty lousy, though the second was about half the time of the first. My usual two CVS stores have Moderna. Another one pretty close has Pfizer. My PCP is not a fan of Pfizer as a company based on some things they've done in his mind that are unethical. I believe the Moderna shot was a bigger dose -- not sure about booster. At any rate, trying to get scheduled this weekend.

Think I heard (don't know) that the Moderna booster was a half dose.  Might have dreamed that.  I had my third Pfizer in August and still am above range on the UTCARES study 3 months later.  If Moderna is a half dose and Pfizer is the full dose, I'd stick with Pfizer

/majored in a language I already speak.  Not a doctor

11 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Think I heard (don't know) that the Moderna booster was a half dose.  Might have dreamed that.  I had my third Pfizer in August and still am above range on the UTCARES study 3 months later.  If Moderna is a half dose and Pfizer is the full dose, I'd stick with Pfizer

/majored in a language I already speak.  Not a doctor

Yes, it is half of the original dosage. But the comparison to the Pfizer vaccine as a booster is best done in terms of outcomes. The difference in efficacy between a full Moderna dose and a half dose was minimal - that is why Moderna went with the half dose as the booster. I don't know the comparison between a Moderna booster and a Pfizer booster.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Bevo

20 hours ago, Bevo said:

The goal of all organisms is to procreate making an ideal viral one that can harbor the disease and spread the disease for as long as possible. If the host dies too quickly, it limits the spread of the disease. So viruses mutate in a way to increase spread without quickly killing the host. Since there is no benefit but instead actual harm for the virus if it kills quickly, it generally does not occur.

But is a virus really an "organism"?