COVID-19 vaccine discussion

12 hours ago, Bookman said:

Had my annual physical on Thursday and had a nice chat with my doctor about the vaccines. He was visibly excited about this mRNA technology and what it could mean for the future.

We all want better 5G service. 
 

wait...what?

Alright, I'm on board with the Qanon theory that there's a 5G chip in the Pfizer shot.  

I have recently been getting shocked all the time.  Doorknobs, elevator buttons, appliances, etc.  

I mean, sure...it you could be because I'm back out in public a lot more these days so that probably explains it, but then...that's just what Q said people would say.  I think it's the chip charging itself by obtaining an minimal electro-shock through my body. It's a tiny little spark to me, but it's days of charge to the chip 

12 hours ago, Texas Jeff said:

People need an incentive to get the shot at this point.  It would have been nice to give vaccination bonuses as part of the last stimulus, but that ship has sailed.

Maybe local businesses could offer "welcome back" specials to folks that could present a fully vaccinated card.  Like a free appitizer or 10% off your tab or something, if everyone in your party could show a card.  It would get people back in places and maybe push some folks into getting the shot.

People might be able to hold out for a while but they will be challenged to maintain that position when they see their friends getting free stuff.

Schedule up some fake monster truck rallies or similar, and tell them Sarah Palin is the MC.  Once the place is full, lock the doors.  Nobody gets out until they get a shot.  

On 4/22/2021 at 12:48 PM, Hpara759 said:

so Benchmark (Pfizer vaccine study) calls me yesterday and asks if I would be interested in participating in the "booster study". They were looking for 20 of their original vaccine study subjects that fall in a timeline of (longer than 5 months and shorter than 7 months) since receiving the second dose of vaccine. 10 of the 20 needing to be over the age of 56  10 under the the of 56. I'm over that age and at 6 mo and 3 weeks since vaccine. They give a blind dose of either 5mcg or 10mcg to each person and then start checking antibodies at 1 week, 1 month, 6 months and 18 months. I just got home from their clinic, where I got swabbed, blood drawn and a booster vaccine (stuck at 10:00)......

FYI....booster kicked my butt, 48 hours later and I still have a headache,  the poops, and just general "blah" feeling. Vaccine after affects just last 36 hours

FYI....booster kicked my butt, 48 hours later and I still have a headache,  the poops, and just general "blah" feeling. Vaccine after affects just last 36 hours

Lovely. It beats the alternative though. Thanks for the data point. Hope you start feeling better soon.

  

https://www.wvnews.com/news/wvnews/west-virginia-gov-justice-state-will-use-covid-19-stimulus-funds-to-give-all-residents/article_3464b366-a6af-11eb-8cef-a3be246c97ac.html

 

Quote

West Virginia Gov. Justice: State will use COVID-19 stimulus funds to give all residents 16-35 a $100 savings bond

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (WV News) — The state will give a $100 savings bond to each West Virginian from age 16-35 who takes a COVID-19 vaccine. West Virginia will use federal COVID-19 stimulus funding to finance the program.

Gov. Jim Justice announced the savings bond plan Monday in a bid to get more COVID-19 vaccine shots in arms in West Virginia. He said the plan had been "vetted [in] every way in the world." He added that he had made the decision "if we want to really move this needle, and we want to move it right now."

"I'm telling you, West Virginia, it's time to shut this thing down" unless state residents want COVID-19 to "linger forever."

 

 

Spoiler

The governor later in his news conference said he's hopeful the state will be able to give all those 16-35 savings bonds, and added that he believes a savings bond would be something meaningful to look at it in the future, rather than "just ... a dash in the pan and a couple of trips to Wendy's with your friends."

Justice estimates the initiative could cost $27.5 million if it's wildly successful. If there aren't enough savings bonds available, the state will hand out cash, Justice said.

"But if we did that ... it would be the best money ever spent, like you can't imagine," Justice said.

Justice also went over the many ideas submitted and kicked around to boost the numbers of those being vaccinated.

The governor indicated state officials have received "lots and lots of good ideas here, but I am telling you, we need to kickstart this, and kickstart this in a big way."

He added, "maybe just a real dose of patriotism from the standpoint of a savings bond" would be meaningful to the young. "Our young people should be really, really proud if they help us step up," Justice said.

He said without vaccine buy-in from many more people, he would be "reading names" of the pandemic dead every other day, "and also we're going to be faced with wearing these masks that nobody likes for a long, long, long time."

But if young people "step up in masses, we'll be done, and we'll be done soon" with COVID-19.

 

Great idea in my opinion.  Good use of stimulus money.  Hopefully it will pay off.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Bevo in VA
format

 

You people have a lot of bonds...

vax rate falling?  Florida: "Hold my beer"

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/2021/04/27/florida-private-school-wont-allow-teachers-staff-to-get-covid-19-vaccine/

Quote

Centner Academy said its school policy, to the extent possible, not to employ anyone who has gotten a coronavirus vaccine until further information is known.

...

In the letter, the school claims tens of thousands of women worldwide had adverse reproductive issues by just being near someone who was vaccinated, including irregular menstruation, bleeding and miscarriages.

This has to be a record for stupidity, right?  Makes gender reveal parties look like a gathering for the Nobel prize in Physics. 

15 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

vax rate falling?  Florida: "Hold my beer"

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/2021/04/27/florida-private-school-wont-allow-teachers-staff-to-get-covid-19-vaccine/

This has to be a record for stupidity, right?  Makes gender reveal parties look like a gathering for the Nobel prize in Physics. 

"Empowered Stupidity."  It's the American term for the decade.

The J&J pause was a bad idea

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/poll-johnson-johnson-vaccine/2021/04/26/a1085b26-a3ad-11eb-a774-7b47ceb36ee8_story.html

Quote

The public’s concerns over the Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccine are widespread, Post-ABC poll finds

By 

Amy Goldstein and 

Scott Clement

April 26, 2021 at 5:00 a.m. CDT

Fewer than 1 in 4 Americans not yet immunized against the coronavirus say they would be willing to get the vaccine made by Johnson & Johnson, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll that finds broad mistrust of the shot’s safety after federal health officials paused its use.

The nationwide survey shows that slightly fewer than half of U.S. adults overall say they consider the Johnson & Johnson vaccine very or somewhat safe after its use was halted this month following reports of rare, severe blood clots.

The other two coronavirus vaccines authorized for emergency use in the United States, developed by Moderna and Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech, elicit significantly greater public confidence. More than 7 in 10 people say they regard each of those to be very or somewhat safe, the poll finds.

The unwillingness of about 3 in 4 unvaccinated U.S. adults to get the Johnson & Johnson shot points to hurdles facing the Biden administration and state and local public health officials in restarting use of a vaccine that was once heralded for its convenience.

Based on an assessment by a federal advisory committee that the vaccine’s benefits far exceed its risks, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration on Friday permitted the Johnson & Johnson vaccine to be administered again. It will be accompanied by a new warning on its label about the remote possibility of the dangerous blood clots, known to have formed in 15 U.S. recipients out of nearly 8 million doses given.

The Post-ABC poll was conducted April 18 to 21, before the pause was lifted.

Some leading vaccine authorities said the comparatively slender public faith in the Johnson & Johnson shot casts doubt on whether the government’s decision to halt that vaccine was in the best interest of the nation’s health, balancing the dangers of going unvaccinated against the low incidence of the brain blood clots.

“If I hear the phrase ‘abundance of caution’ one more time, I’m going to jump out of my window,” said Paul A. Offit, a vaccine expert at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. “In the name of transparency, in the name of openness, we scare people.”

The Department of Health and Human Services declined to comment on the survey’s findings.

Johnson & Johnson also declined to comment. Asked about the findings, spokesman Jake Sargent sent a statement that the company’s chief scientific officer had issued Friday, when CDC advisers recommended an end to the pause, saying the advice to resume the shot’s use “is an essential step toward continuing urgently needed vaccinations in a safe way for millions of people in the U.S.”

When federal regulators authorized Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine in February as the nation’s third immunization weapon against the coronavirus pandemic, its logistical and practical advantages over the two earlier vaccines were a source of optimism for helping to tamp down the pandemic in the United States and lower- and middle-income nations.

Unlike the other vaccines, it does not need to be stored frozen. And unlike the two-dose regimen of the others, it consists of a single shot, making it handy for transient and other hard-to-reach populations, including college students, people who are homeless and people living in rural areas.

But among adults who have not been immunized, the poll finds, about half say the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are safe, compared with fewer than 1 in 3 who say the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is safe.

The poll’s evidence of lower faith in the safety of the Johnson & Johnson shot emerges as public health officials acknowledge that, four months after the start of the largest mass vaccination campaign in U.S. history, residents who remain unprotected against the coronavirus are becoming difficult to reach. The reasons include their mobility, geography or hesitancy to get an inoculation against the virus, which has infected more than 32 million people nationwide and killed in excess of 571,000.

The Post-ABC poll finds that 56 percent of U.S. adults say they had gotten at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine.

Of the 44 percent who remain unvaccinated against the virus, a majority say they probably will not get a shot or definitely will not do so.

Among people of different age groups and political inclinations, adults ages 18 to 39 who lean Republican are most reluctant to be inoculated against the virus, with 55 percent of them saying they definitely or probably will not get immunized, compared with 24 percent of U.S. adults overall.

But receptivity to receiving a coronavirus vaccine has increased in the past few months. About three-fourths of U.S. adults say they had already gotten at least one shot, or definitely or probably plan to get it. That compares with slightly fewer than two-thirds in a Post-ABC poll in January, in which only 3 percent said they had received a shot.

The most recent poll also finds a large decline in perceptions that the pandemic is “not at all under control,” falling from slightly more than half of U.S. adults in January, when the country was amid a post-holiday surge, to just 15 percent. Now, a 55 percent majority say they think the pandemic is only somewhat under control, while 28 percent say they think it is completely or mostly controlled.

The survey shows, too, that the nation is polarized on the question of whether people should be required to be vaccinated to carry out basic aspects of their lives, such as going to work or college, after everyone has had a chance to be immunized.

Some 45 percent of U.S. adults say they support businesses requiring vaccination for employees who go into work. Half say they support colleges and universities compelling students to get shots before being allowed on campus. More than 6 in 10 Democrats support vaccine requirements for employers and college students, while about 7 in 10 Republicans oppose them.

The poll also finds that 55 percent of Americans support their state issuing printed or digital certificates to vaccinated individuals that could be shown to businesses, employers and schools.

As the country moves out of the Johnson & Johnson pause of 10 days, attitudes about that vaccine’s safety differ sharply.

Adrian Colón, a 48-year-old commercial loan officer, has not received a shot yet because, when he last checked a few weeks ago with the Mayo Clinic near his home in Glendale, Ariz., his age group was not yet eligible. He has been careful throughout the pandemic, he said, leaving home to get groceries, pick up his two teenagers from his ex-wife with whom he shares custody and to practice a couple of times a month with a rock band in which he plays bass with other “artsy-fartsy, loner types.”

Colón figures he has been keeping himself sufficiently out of harm’s way from the virus, but he “most definitely” will get vaccinated. “I believe in science,” he said. “That’s really the bottom line.”

If the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was the one available when he got an appointment, he said, “I’d take it.” He is aware of reports of blood clots, but, at nearly 50 and male, he said, he is not in the group of child-bearing-age women who accounted for the initial six reported cases that prompted the pause.

“Any of the three [vaccines] is honestly good with me,” Colón said.

On the other hand, Catherine Young, a retired sergeant with the Philadelphia Police Department, says that if she were offered the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, “I would turn it down.”

Young, 62, who spends days babysitting her toddler grandson, said she plans to be vaccinated mainly “for my friends and family’s sake. A lot are stuck on, ‘You have to get the vaccine.’ ”

She assumes she has coronavirus antibodies because, in February 2020, Young and her husband were among the first wave of people in the United States to develop covid-19, the disease caused by the virus.

“I was the sickest I’ve ever been in my life,” Young recalled. “A few times I thought, ‘I am not going to survive this.’ ”

She did not go to a hospital and was treated by her doctor with steroids and a nebulizer. The second week she was sick, her 27-year-old daughter, one of her five children, happened to lose an IT job and move back in, bringing Young toast and urging her to eat. She was sick for about a month. The cough lingered longer.

Young and her husband have recovered. She is not in a rush to get a vaccine, wishing information was clearer about how long protection from a shot lasts and whether boosters will be needed. “I don’t know if they are as effective as they should be,” she said.

Still, she is willing to get vaccinated, but not with the Johnson & Johnson product.

“It was the blood clot thing everyone had been talking about,” Young said. “I wasn’t too keen on it.”

Whether such wariness endures “all depends on how CDC and FDA respond to this now,” said Peter Hotez, a professor of pediatrics and molecular virology and microbiology at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston. If the federal agencies “screw this up in terms of how they message, the consequences are not so devastating for the U.S.” After shortages through the winter, he said, Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna doses are now plentiful enough for U.S. residents who want the shots.

But, Hotez said, “the consequence for the world would be devastating. . . . There is a huge urgency to avoid vaccine refusal in Africa, Latin American and the Middle East.”

Angela Rasmussen, a research scientist at a virology institute at the University of Saskatchewan in Canada, agreed the Johnson & Johnson pause could have adverse effects in countries receiving shots through the international vaccine alliance Covax, which relies largely on that vaccine and one from AstraZeneca that also has been associated with rare clotting episodes.

“If people in those countries think, you are giving us the dangerous vaccines and keeping the better ones for [yourselves], then we just won’t get vaccinated,” Rasmussen said.

Nevertheless, she said, the pause was “a perfectly appropriate thing to do,” even if, in the end, regulators found that the vaccine’s benefits outweigh its risks. The fact that the manufacturer reported the first several cases of clots — and that federal health officials took them seriously and alerted clinicians — should heighten public confidence that “the safeguards we have in place are working,” Rasmussen said.

The Post-ABC poll was conducted by telephone among a random national sample of 1,007 adults, with 75 percent reached on cellphones and 25 percent on landlines. Results have a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points for the full sample.

 

22 year old employee of mine has double pneumonia from covid right now. Frustrating because he chose to pass on the vaccine. I'm sure there will be thousands of people over the next year that get severe covid and will seriously regret not getting vaccinated. 

22 year old employee of mine has double pneumonia from covid right now. Frustrating because he chose to pass on the vaccine. I'm sure there will be thousands of people over the next year that get severe covid and will seriously regret not getting vaccinated. 

But if he makes it he’ll be immune!

15 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

22 year old employee of mine has double pneumonia from covid right now. Frustrating because he chose to pass on the vaccine. I'm sure there will be thousands of people over the next year that get severe covid and will seriously regret not getting vaccinated. 

Dude must be a JRE listener

Literally the last part of the brain to develop is around 25 and it's the risk-assessment portion.  Which is why we do so much stupid shit as young people, and think we're gonna live forever with no consequences.  It helps explain why so many young people are refusing the vaccine, even if it means it'll help make things safer for their parents and grandparents.  It's just biology up until 25, after that it's Empowered Stupidity.  

(fun fact, it's also why the CIA still recruits kids out of high school at age 18.  So they can offer up risk-free analysis of what to do with certain intel if there were no long-term consequences.  And then match that up against what the career analysts say to do who have to take into account the decades of fallout from making the wrong move)

52 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Literally the last part of the brain to develop is around 25 and it's the risk-assessment portion.  Which is why we do so much stupid shit as young people, and think we're gonna live forever with no consequences.  It helps explain why so many young people are refusing the vaccine, even if it means it'll help make things safer for their parents and grandparents.  It's just biology up until 25, after that it's Empowered Stupidity.  

(fun fact, it's also why the CIA still recruits kids out of high school at age 18.  So they can offer up risk-free analysis of what to do with certain intel if there were no long-term consequences.  And then match that up against what the career analysts say to do who have to take into account the decades of fallout from making the wrong move)

And from what I recall, the first part of the brain to develop is the "boobs are awesome" part of the brain.  And if my memory serves, for most males, it remains the dominant portion of the brain for [checks the date]....many, many decades.

On 4/22/2021 at 2:28 PM, Viper said:

speaking of negative media coverage

 

 

To be fair, the first time I read that tweet in your post (without really reading the context from the quoted post or your post), I assumed the tweet on the left was mainly criticizing the unvaccinated worked that caused someone else to die: "If everyone had been responsible and vaccinated like we recommended, the resident wouldn't have died."  But yeah, I see what y'all are saying too.

https://abc7ny.com/covid-vaccine-india-coronavirus-charges/10572704/

FDA may approve the Pfizer vaccine for ages 12-15 this week.

 

NEW YORK (WABC) -- The FDA could expand COVID vaccines for 12-to-15-year-olds as early as this week.

Health experts say the agency is expected to authorize Pfizer's drug for that age group any day now.

The decision would allow middle school students and all high school students to get the shots.

Pfizer says clinical trials showed the vaccine was 100% effective for 12-to-15 year-olds.

If authorized, that age group may start receiving the Pfizer vaccine later this month.

Edited May 4, 2021 by CooterBrown

Sweet.  My son will be eligible immediately 14 and my daughter this summer.  12

 

On 4/28/2021 at 8:30 AM, StruggleBus said:

22 year old employee of mine has double pneumonia from covid right now. Frustrating because he chose to pass on the vaccine. I'm sure there will be thousands of people over the next year that get severe covid and will seriously regret not getting vaccinated. 

Fucking hyperbole

I am sure you are dense.  

5 hours ago, VelvetFreeze said:

Fucking hyperbole

I am sure you are dense.  

On 4/28/2021 at 9:30 AM, StruggleBus said:

22 year old employee of mine has double pneumonia from covid right now. Frustrating because he chose to pass on the vaccine. I'm sure there will be thousands of people over the next year that get severe covid and will seriously regret not getting vaccinated. 

At least it’s not triple or quadruple pneumonia.

2 weeks today since my Pfizer booster!

5 days for me and my router went out. thanks a lot Bill Gates.

10 minutes ago, Viper said:

5 days for me and my router went out. thanks a lot Bill Gates.

Just use the vaccine’s imbedded 5G. Duh. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/05/us-backs-covid-vaccine-intellectual-property-waivers-to-expand-access-to-shots-worldwide.html

this is some bullshit

Why exactly, Mr. Leading Statement Guy? Because I'd imagine the people throwing dead bodies of their loved ones on funeral pyres in India would disagree. 

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Why exactly, Mr. Leading Statement Guy? Because I'd imagine the people throwing dead bodies of their loved ones on funeral pyres in India would disagree. 

IP protections are not meaningfully hampering the vax roll out in India. They have a scale and infrastructure problem that is a whole different challenge. The adenovirus vectors make a lot more sense there cause of the easy of production. But that doesn’t really adrrrs the core issue that why have a lot of people and shit healthcare infrastructure. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Anastasis

Okay. And the rest of the developing world?

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Okay. And the rest of the developing world?

Similar issues without the population scale, nor the domestic pharma production capabilities. India is quite sophisticated in that regard. Just massive population scale living in poverty with limited healthcare infrastructure. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Anastasis

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Okay. And the rest of the developing world?

what about them? What would stealing from all the biotech companies we've been praising for a year do for them? These are logistics issues not manufacturing issues.

These are the countries WHO lists who can manufacture vaccines, not many developing countries on there, because most developing countries don't have advanced biopharmaceutical manufacturing plants. 

https://www.who.int/initiatives/who-listed-authority-reg-authorities/list-of-vaccine-prod-countries

 

https://reason.com/2021/05/04/biden-administration-should-absolutely-reject-patent-waivers-for-covid-19-vaccines/

Quote

However, suspending patents is not a moral imperative, it's moral grandstanding and would do nothing to get the vaccines faster to the people who need them.

The World Health Organization lists fewer than 25 countries capable of manufacturing any vaccines whatsoever, much less the novel and highly complex COVID-19 vaccines.

"For the industry, this would be a terrible, terrible precedent," said Geoffrey Porges, an analyst for the investment bank SVB Leerink to The New York Times. "It would be intensively counterproductive, in the extreme, because what it would say to the industry is: 'Don't work on anything that we really care about, because if you do, we're just going to take it away from you.'"

Just lifting patent protection would do nothing to actually enable most poor countries to ramp up production of these vaccines, and it would discourage companies from continuing to make them now and in the future.

If all goes well, the vaccine makers are on track to supply enough COVID-19 vaccine to inoculate 7 billion people by the end of this year. It would be much more helpful for progressives to put aside their vendetta against the pharmaceutical companies and instead concentrate on figuring out the logistics of getting vaccines to people in poor countries.

What do you think will happen next pandemic? We're not going to get such a wide and rapid private response.

3 minutes ago, Viper said:

If all goes well, the vaccine makers are on track to supply enough COVID-19 vaccine to inoculate 7 billion people by the end of this year. It would be much more helpful for progressives to put aside their vendetta against the pharmaceutical companies and instead concentrate on figuring out the logistics of getting vaccines to people in poor countries.

Precisely. 

Didn't Biden already do that by making the raw materials easier to get to places like India to ramp up production?

Big news

 

mRNA technology is awesome 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/moderna-says-its-covid-vaccine-booster-works-well-against-variants-n1266413

 

 

23 minutes ago, midtown said:

Big news

 

 

People need to stop cowering before the variants, get their shots, and crawl out of their fucking holes.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Anastasis

25 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

mRNA technology is awesome 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/moderna-says-its-covid-vaccine-booster-works-well-against-variants-n1266413

 

 

"They're just trying to control us with more shots!" - Idiot Surly posters.

Maybe I'm misremembering the 60 Minutes feature on mRNA technology but the idea I believe was this technology would allow them to build vaccines for any variant of not just Covid 19 but any future Covid number going forward. So instead of a start from scratch approach anytime there was a pandemic, they could instead just build a new booster off the backs of the old vaccine and protect people year to year like the flu vaccine. 

 
People need to stop cowering before the variants, get their shots, and crawl out of their fucking holes.
 
 
 

“Get their shots.”

You’re adorable. Do you even “mah freedoms!” bro? We’ve hit the stall, and there we’ll stay.

Because Empowered Stupidity is our brand.

Just now, Brisketexan said:

“Get their shots.”

You’re adorable. Do you even “mah freedoms!” bro? We’ve hit the stall, and there we’ll stay.

Because Empowered Stupidity is our brand.

It’s “muh freedoms.” Get it straight.

Maybe I'm misremembering the 60 Minutes feature on mRNA technology but the idea I believe was this technology would allow them to build vaccines for any variant of not just Covid 19 but any future Covid number going forward. So instead of a start from scratch approach anytime there was a pandemic, they could instead just build a new booster off the backs of the old vaccine and protect people year to year like the flu vaccine. 

That’s what the bill gates mind control machine wants you to think.

Real Americans don’t trust new technology. We’ll stick with with our leeches and poultices, thank you very much. They were good enough for the founding fathers, they’re good enough for us.

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

“Get their shots.”

You’re adorable. Do you even “mah freedoms!” bro? We’ve hit the stall, and there we’ll stay.

Because Empowered Stupidity is our brand.

1 hour ago, midtown said:

Big news

 

what? no aggy in the top 5?

48 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Maybe I'm misremembering the 60 Minutes feature on mRNA technology but the idea I believe was this technology would allow them to build vaccines for any variant of not just Covid 19 but any future Covid number going forward. So instead of a start from scratch approach anytime there was a pandemic, they could instead just build a new booster off the backs of the old vaccine and protect people year to year like the flu vaccine. 

From an finance and economics professor at GMU discusses why patents are not the problem, what is the problem, and how to fix it.

Quote

Patents are not the problem. All of the vaccine manufacturers are trying to increase supply as quickly as possible. Billions of doses are being produced–more than ever before in the history of the world. Licenses are widely available. AstraZeneca have licensed their vaccine for production with manufactures around the world, including in India, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, China and South Africa. J&J’s vaccine has been licensed for production by multiple firms in the United States as well as with firms in Spain, South Africa and France. Sputnik has been licensed for production by firms in India, China, South Korea, Brazil and pending EMA approval with firms in Germany and France. Sinopharm has been licensed in the UAE, Egypt and Bangladesh. Novavax has licensed its vaccine for production in South Korea, India, and Japan and it is desperate to find other licensees but technology transfer isn’t easy and there are limited supplies of raw materials:

Quote

Virtually overnight, [Novavax] set up a network of outside manufacturers more ambitious than one outside executive said he’s ever seen, but they struggled at times to transfer their technology there amid pandemic travel restrictions. They were kicked out of one factory by the same government that’s bankrolled their effort. Competing with larger competitors, they’ve found themselves short on raw materials as diverse as Chilean tree bark and bioreactor bags. They signed a deal with India’s Serum Institute to produce many of their COVAX doses but now face the realistic chance that even when Serum gets to full capacity — and they are behind — India’s government, dealing with the world’s worst active outbreak, won’t let the shots leave the country.

Plastic bags are a bigger bottleneck than patents. The US embargo on vaccine supplies to India was precisely that the Biden administration used the DPA to prioritize things like bioreactor bags and filters to US suppliers and that meant that India’s Serum Institute was having trouble getting its production lines ready for Novavax. CureVac, another potential mRNA vaccine, is also finding it difficult to find supplies due to US restrictions (which means supplies are short everywhere). As Derek Lowe said:

Quote

Abolishing patents will not provide more shaker bags or more Chilean tree bark, nor provide more of the key filtration materials needed for production. These processes have a lot of potential choke points and rate-limiting steps in them, and there is no wand that will wave that complexity away.

Technology transfer has been difficult for AstraZeneca–which is one reason they have had production difficulties–and their vaccine uses relatively well understood technology. The mRNA technology is new and has never before been used to produce at scale. Pfizer and Moderna had to build factories and distribution systems from scratch. There are no mRNA factories idling on the sidelines. If there were, Moderna or Pfizer would be happy to license since they are producing in their own factories 24 hours a day, seven days a week (monopolies restrict supply, remember?). Why do you think China hasn’t yet produced an mRNA vaccine? Hint: it isn’t fear about violating IP. Moreover, even Moderna and Pfizer don’t yet fully understand their production technology, they are learning by doing every single day. Moderna has said that they won’t enforce their patents during the pandemic but no one has stepped up to produce because no one else can.

The US trade representative’s announcement is virtue signaling to the anti-market left and will do little to nothing to increase supply.

What can we do to increase supply? Sorry, there is no quick and cheap solution. We must spend. Trump’s Operation Warp Speed spent on the order of $15 billion. If we want more, we need to spend more and on similar scale. The Biden administration paid $269 million to Merck to retool its factories to make the J&J vaccine. That was a good start. We could also offer Pfizer and Moderna say $100 a dose to produce in excess of their current production and maybe with those resources there is more they could do. South Africa and India and every other country in the world should offer the same (India hasn’t even approved the Pfizer vaccine and they are complaining about IP!??) We should ease up on the DPA and invest more in the supply chain–let’s get CureVac and the Serum Institute what they need. We should work like hell to find a substitute for Chilean tree bark. See my piece in Science co-authored with Michael Kremer et. al. for more ideas. (Note also that these ideas are better at dealing with current supply constraints and they also increase the incentive to produce future vaccines, unlike shortsighted patent abrogation.)

Bottom line is that producing more takes real resources not waving magic patent wands.

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Viper

4 minutes ago, Viper said:

From an finance and economics professor at GMU discusses why patents are not the problem, what is the problem, and how to fix it.

 

So if private companies have said they will not enforce their patents in the short term (e.g., Moderna licensing for free), and they aren't going to lose money since the primary problem is manufacturing processes not subject to IP protection anyway, what exactly is the harm in including a clear IP waiver as part of a larger assistance strategy? Y'all can call it virtue signaling if you want I suppose, but I'm just not seeing any harm in doing it. While IP may not be among the primary or even secondary things preventing vaccine manufacturing from starting in other countries, I'm sure it has been identified by countries and the companies within them as a potential down the line problem and may delay needed investment to get things moving. I'd get the opposition if we were talking about long term invalidation of broad array of patents, but my understanding is that proposed waivers would be more limited. 

That said, I agree it makes sense to spend the vast majority of our energy on other issues preventing vaccine rollout. But I'm not sure we aren't doing that. 

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

So if private companies have said they will not enforce their patents in the short term (e.g., Moderna licensing for free), and they aren't going to lose money since the primary problem is manufacturing processes not subject to IP protection anyway, what exactly is the harm in including a clear IP waiver as part of a larger assistance strategy? Y'all can call it virtue signaling if you want I suppose, but I'm just not seeing any harm in doing it. While IP may not be among the primary or even secondary things preventing vaccine manufacturing from starting in other countries, I'm sure it has been identified by countries and the companies within them as a potential down the line problem and may delay needed investment to get things moving. I'd get the opposition if we were talking about long term invalidation of broad array of patents, but my understanding is that proposed waivers would be more limited. 

That said, I agree it makes sense to spend the vast majority of our energy on other issues preventing vaccine rollout. But I'm not sure we aren't doing that. 

you've agreed to let me sleep on your couch for a week to help me out, what's wrong with me taking the title to your house now and moving in?

16 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/05/us-backs-covid-vaccine-intellectual-property-waivers-to-expand-access-to-shots-worldwide.html

this is some bullshit

I’m sure this won’t backfire. I can’t wait to see what fun new diseases are created in these 3rd world labs. 

3 minutes ago, Viper said:

you've agreed to let me sleep on your couch for a week to help me out, what's wrong with me taking the title to your house now and moving in?

That's a slippery slope fallacy. There is no reason why the waiver cannot be temporary and limited. And that's what I've seen discussed. Do you refuse to allow friends to crash the night with you for fear they may try and take your house? 

13 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I believe it was this one

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/last-pandemic-science-military-60-minutes-2021-04-11/