COVID-19 vaccine discussion

9 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Here is some of the data that they are presenting today. They have another deck on risk/benefits, and the deck at least strongly suggests that their assessment appears to me to be that the benefits outweigh risks at both individual and population level.  But after the JNJ fiasco who knows where they end up.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/slides-2021-06.html

 

 

What are your thoughts on these criticisms of the data and the risk/benefit discussion? They make sense to me  

 
 

Edited June 24, 2021 by GRHorn

I think that there is some merit. I’m weighing second dose benefit for my 12yo daughter. I think 2nd dose benefit clear for her, but I can arrive at a different conclusion with one of my boys, in particular cause we have some CV factors in play with him and he is under 12. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Anastasis

Wild card in all this is delta imo, and I am not of Variant sky is falling mindset generally. Fall return to school gonna be interdasting. 

I wonder if there will ever be data available for risks associated with things like ADHD.  And I don't mean just that, I mean kids that are on ADHD meds.  I know that is probably asking way too much, but it is one of the factors we've weighed when talking about our 12 year old. 

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I think that there is some merit. I’m weighing second dose benefit for my 12yo daughter. I think 2nd dose benefit clear for her, but I can arrive at a different conclusion with one of my boys, in particular cause we have some CV factors in play with him and he is under 15. 

Thanks. You’ve been following this as close as anyone on here. I think that it should just be one dose in boys. It’s pretty clear to me actually. Not sure why there isn’t more caution from authorities on this, given the current state of pandemic. It’s no longer an emergency. Things can be dialed back when warranted. First, do no harm. Especially with children. 
 

Stuff like this is just inexcusable. Wtf.

 

6 minutes ago, Hate said:

I wonder if there will ever be data available for risks associated with things like ADHD.  And I don't mean just that, I mean kids that are on ADHD meds.  I know that is probably asking way too much, but it is one of the factors we've weighed when talking about our 12 year old. 

I’d love to see an analysis of the patients with myocarditis. Were they more likely to have common coexisting problems related to their immune systems like asthma or food allergies?

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

And I assume that a sample size of millions per age group means it wasn’t blanket tested for, but reported when diagnosed from people showing up to get checked for pain/whatever symptoms?

It is VAERS data, so there are all sorts of limitations. 

55 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You’ve been following this as close as anyone on here.

I don't know that that is necessarily true, but as far as the R/B analysis I have some particular vested interests. 

I will say this, even though they is a no -negligible increase across certain age groups, I would hope that the people shouting about the 99.5% survival rate also don’t have a problem with a 99.994% rate of not getting myocarditis from the vaccine for 12-17 boys (possibly higher if one or more cases actually were not vax induced).  It doesn’t list any deaths so I don’t know if I can interpret that as no deaths. 

12 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I will say this, even though they is a no -negligible increase across certain age groups, I would hope that the people shouting about the 99.5% survival rate also don’t have a problem with a 99.994% rate of not getting myocarditis from the vaccine for 12-17 boys (possibly higher if one or more cases actually were not vax induced).  It doesn’t list any deaths so I don’t know if I can interpret that as no deaths. 

Death is the hardest endpoint. 

 

 

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated

CARLA K. JOHNSON and MIKE STOBBE

Thu, June 24, 2021, 10:41 AM

 

 

Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren’t vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day — now down to under 300 — could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine.

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 853,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 0.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

The AP analyzed figures provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC itself has not estimated what percentage of hospitalizations and deaths are in fully vaccinated people, citing limitations in the data.

Among them: Only about 45 states report breakthrough infections, and some are more aggressive than others in looking for such cases. So the data probably understates such infections, CDC officials said.

Still, the overall trend that emerges from the data echoes what many health care authorities are seeing around the country and what top experts are saying. 

Earlier this month, Andy Slavitt, a former adviser to the Biden administration on COVID-19, suggested that 98% to 99% of the Americans dying of the coronavirus are unvaccinated. 

And CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said on Tuesday that the vaccine is so effective that "nearly every death, especially among adults, due to COVID-19, is, at this point, entirely preventable.” She called such deaths “particularly tragic.”

Deaths in the U.S. have plummeted from a peak of more than 3,400 day on average in mid-January, one month into the vaccination drive.

About 63% of all vaccine-eligible Americans — those 12 and older — have received at least one dose, and 53% are fully vaccinated, according to the CDC. While vaccine remains scarce in much of the world, the U.S. supply is so abundant and demand has slumped so dramatically that shots sit unused.

Ross Bagne, a 68-year-old small-business owner in Cheyenne, Wyoming, was eligible for the vaccine in early February but didn't get it. He died June 4, infected and unvaccinated, after spending more than three weeks in the hospital, his lungs filling with fluid. He was unable to swallow because of a stroke.

“He never went out, so he didn’t think he would catch it,” said his grieving sister, Karen McKnight. She wondered: “Why take the risk of not getting vaccinated?”

The preventable deaths will continue, experts predict, with unvaccinated pockets of the nation experiencing outbreaks in the fall and winter. Ali Mokdad, a professor of health metrics sciences at the University of Washington in Seattle, said modeling suggests the nation will hit 1,000 deaths per day again next year.

In Arkansas, which has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the nation, with only about 33% of the population fully protected, cases, hospitalizations and deaths are rising. 

“It is sad to see someone go to the hospital or die when it can be prevented," Gov. Asa Hutchinson tweeted as he urged people to get their shots.

In Seattle's King County, the public health department found only three deaths during a recent 60-day period in people who were fully vaccinated. The rest, some 95% of 62 deaths, had had no vaccine or just one shot.

“Those are all somebody’s parents, grandparents, siblings and friends,” said Dr. Mark Del Beccaro, who helps lead a vaccination outreach program in King County. “It’s still a lot of deaths, and they’re preventable deaths.”

In the St. Louis area, more than 90% of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 have not been vaccinated, said Dr. Alex Garza, a hospital administrator who directs a metropolitan-area task force on the outbreak.

“The majority of them express some regret for not being vaccinated,” Garza said. “That’s a pretty common refrain that we’re hearing from patients with COVID.”

The stories of unvaccinated people dying may convince some people they should get the shots, but young adults — the group least likely to be vaccinated — may be motivated more by a desire to protect their loved ones, said David Michaels, an epidemiologist at George Washington University's school of public health in the nation's capital.

Others need paid time off to get the shots and deal with any side effects, Michaels said.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration this month began requiring health care employers, including hospitals and nursing homes, to provide such time off. But Michaels, who headed OSHA under President Barack Obama, said the agency should have gone further and applied the rule to meat and poultry plants and other food operations as well as other places with workers at risk.

Bagne, who lived alone, ran a business helping people incorporate their companies in Wyoming for the tax advantages. He was winding down the business, planning to retire, when he got sick, emailing his sister in April about an illness that had left him dizzy and disoriented. 

“Whatever it was. That bug took a LOT out of me,” he wrote.

As his health deteriorated, a neighbor finally persuaded him to go to the hospital.

“Why was the messaging in his state so unclear that he didn’t understand the importance of the vaccine? He was a very bright guy," his sister said. “I wish he’d gotten the vaccine, and I’m sad he didn’t understand how it could prevent him from getting COVID."

13 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated

CARLA K. JOHNSON and MIKE STOBBE

Thu, June 24, 2021, 10:41 AM

 

 

Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren’t vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day — now down to under 300 — could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine.

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 853,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 0.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

The AP analyzed figures provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC itself has not estimated what percentage of hospitalizations and deaths are in fully vaccinated people, citing limitations in the data.

Among them: Only about 45 states report breakthrough infections, and some are more aggressive than others in looking for such cases. So the data probably understates such infections, CDC officials said.

Still, the overall trend that emerges from the data echoes what many health care authorities are seeing around the country and what top experts are saying. 

Earlier this month, Andy Slavitt, a former adviser to the Biden administration on COVID-19, suggested that 98% to 99% of the Americans dying of the coronavirus are unvaccinated. 

And CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said on Tuesday that the vaccine is so effective that "nearly every death, especially among adults, due to COVID-19, is, at this point, entirely preventable.” She called such deaths “particularly tragic.”

Deaths in the U.S. have plummeted from a peak of more than 3,400 day on average in mid-January, one month into the vaccination drive.

About 63% of all vaccine-eligible Americans — those 12 and older — have received at least one dose, and 53% are fully vaccinated, according to the CDC. While vaccine remains scarce in much of the world, the U.S. supply is so abundant and demand has slumped so dramatically that shots sit unused.

Ross Bagne, a 68-year-old small-business owner in Cheyenne, Wyoming, was eligible for the vaccine in early February but didn't get it. He died June 4, infected and unvaccinated, after spending more than three weeks in the hospital, his lungs filling with fluid. He was unable to swallow because of a stroke.

“He never went out, so he didn’t think he would catch it,” said his grieving sister, Karen McKnight. She wondered: “Why take the risk of not getting vaccinated?”

The preventable deaths will continue, experts predict, with unvaccinated pockets of the nation experiencing outbreaks in the fall and winter. Ali Mokdad, a professor of health metrics sciences at the University of Washington in Seattle, said modeling suggests the nation will hit 1,000 deaths per day again next year.

In Arkansas, which has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the nation, with only about 33% of the population fully protected, cases, hospitalizations and deaths are rising. 

“It is sad to see someone go to the hospital or die when it can be prevented," Gov. Asa Hutchinson tweeted as he urged people to get their shots.

In Seattle's King County, the public health department found only three deaths during a recent 60-day period in people who were fully vaccinated. The rest, some 95% of 62 deaths, had had no vaccine or just one shot.

“Those are all somebody’s parents, grandparents, siblings and friends,” said Dr. Mark Del Beccaro, who helps lead a vaccination outreach program in King County. “It’s still a lot of deaths, and they’re preventable deaths.”

In the St. Louis area, more than 90% of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 have not been vaccinated, said Dr. Alex Garza, a hospital administrator who directs a metropolitan-area task force on the outbreak.

“The majority of them express some regret for not being vaccinated,” Garza said. “That’s a pretty common refrain that we’re hearing from patients with COVID.”

The stories of unvaccinated people dying may convince some people they should get the shots, but young adults — the group least likely to be vaccinated — may be motivated more by a desire to protect their loved ones, said David Michaels, an epidemiologist at George Washington University's school of public health in the nation's capital.

Others need paid time off to get the shots and deal with any side effects, Michaels said.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration this month began requiring health care employers, including hospitals and nursing homes, to provide such time off. But Michaels, who headed OSHA under President Barack Obama, said the agency should have gone further and applied the rule to meat and poultry plants and other food operations as well as other places with workers at risk.

Bagne, who lived alone, ran a business helping people incorporate their companies in Wyoming for the tax advantages. He was winding down the business, planning to retire, when he got sick, emailing his sister in April about an illness that had left him dizzy and disoriented. 

“Whatever it was. That bug took a LOT out of me,” he wrote.

As his health deteriorated, a neighbor finally persuaded him to go to the hospital.

“Why was the messaging in his state so unclear that he didn’t understand the importance of the vaccine? He was a very bright guy," his sister said. “I wish he’d gotten the vaccine, and I’m sad he didn’t understand how it could prevent him from getting COVID."

 

 

Death is the hardest endpoint. 

Isn’t that a Tom Petty song?

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated

CARLA K. JOHNSON and MIKE STOBBE

Thu, June 24, 2021, 10:41 AM

 

 

Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren’t vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day — now down to under 300 — could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine.

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 853,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 0.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

The AP analyzed figures provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC itself has not estimated what percentage of hospitalizations and deaths are in fully vaccinated people, citing limitations in the data.

Among them: Only about 45 states report breakthrough infections, and some are more aggressive than others in looking for such cases. So the data probably understates such infections, CDC officials said.

Still, the overall trend that emerges from the data echoes what many health care authorities are seeing around the country and what top experts are saying. 

Earlier this month, Andy Slavitt, a former adviser to the Biden administration on COVID-19, suggested that 98% to 99% of the Americans dying of the coronavirus are unvaccinated. 

And CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said on Tuesday that the vaccine is so effective that "nearly every death, especially among adults, due to COVID-19, is, at this point, entirely preventable.” She called such deaths “particularly tragic.”

Deaths in the U.S. have plummeted from a peak of more than 3,400 day on average in mid-January, one month into the vaccination drive.

About 63% of all vaccine-eligible Americans — those 12 and older — have received at least one dose, and 53% are fully vaccinated, according to the CDC. While vaccine remains scarce in much of the world, the U.S. supply is so abundant and demand has slumped so dramatically that shots sit unused.

Ross Bagne, a 68-year-old small-business owner in Cheyenne, Wyoming, was eligible for the vaccine in early February but didn't get it. He died June 4, infected and unvaccinated, after spending more than three weeks in the hospital, his lungs filling with fluid. He was unable to swallow because of a stroke.

“He never went out, so he didn’t think he would catch it,” said his grieving sister, Karen McKnight. She wondered: “Why take the risk of not getting vaccinated?”

The preventable deaths will continue, experts predict, with unvaccinated pockets of the nation experiencing outbreaks in the fall and winter. Ali Mokdad, a professor of health metrics sciences at the University of Washington in Seattle, said modeling suggests the nation will hit 1,000 deaths per day again next year.

In Arkansas, which has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the nation, with only about 33% of the population fully protected, cases, hospitalizations and deaths are rising. 

“It is sad to see someone go to the hospital or die when it can be prevented," Gov. Asa Hutchinson tweeted as he urged people to get their shots.

In Seattle's King County, the public health department found only three deaths during a recent 60-day period in people who were fully vaccinated. The rest, some 95% of 62 deaths, had had no vaccine or just one shot.

“Those are all somebody’s parents, grandparents, siblings and friends,” said Dr. Mark Del Beccaro, who helps lead a vaccination outreach program in King County. “It’s still a lot of deaths, and they’re preventable deaths.”

In the St. Louis area, more than 90% of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 have not been vaccinated, said Dr. Alex Garza, a hospital administrator who directs a metropolitan-area task force on the outbreak.

“The majority of them express some regret for not being vaccinated,” Garza said. “That’s a pretty common refrain that we’re hearing from patients with COVID.”

The stories of unvaccinated people dying may convince some people they should get the shots, but young adults — the group least likely to be vaccinated — may be motivated more by a desire to protect their loved ones, said David Michaels, an epidemiologist at George Washington University's school of public health in the nation's capital.

Others need paid time off to get the shots and deal with any side effects, Michaels said.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration this month began requiring health care employers, including hospitals and nursing homes, to provide such time off. But Michaels, who headed OSHA under President Barack Obama, said the agency should have gone further and applied the rule to meat and poultry plants and other food operations as well as other places with workers at risk.

Bagne, who lived alone, ran a business helping people incorporate their companies in Wyoming for the tax advantages. He was winding down the business, planning to retire, when he got sick, emailing his sister in April about an illness that had left him dizzy and disoriented. 

“Whatever it was. That bug took a LOT out of me,” he wrote.

As his health deteriorated, a neighbor finally persuaded him to go to the hospital.

“Why was the messaging in his state so unclear that he didn’t understand the importance of the vaccine? He was a very bright guy," his sister said. “I wish he’d gotten the vaccine, and I’m sad he didn’t understand how it could prevent him from getting COVID."

The herd has a way of thinning itself out.

Has anyone else noticed a massive uptick in the last day or so in news stories implying we’ll all have to go back into lockdown, vaccinated or not?  Is there something new in terms of how vaccinated people react to Delta?

Exsmples:

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/25/1010151575/new-covid-19-outbreaks-are-driving-some-places-back-under-lockdown-and-behind-ma
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/world/middleeast/israel-covid-delta-variant.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210625&instance_id=33851&nl=the-morning&regi_id=115763618&segment_id=61711&te=1&user_id=52582b04c3b92afd841aaf462e715115

3 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Has anyone else noticed a massive uptick in the last day or so in news stories implying we’ll all have to go back into lockdown, vaccinated or not?  Is there something new in terms of how vaccinated people react to Delta?

Just a guess, but maybe fear-based messaging to get some of these dumbfucks vaccinated?

1 minute ago, South Austin said:

Just a guess, but maybe fear-based messaging to get some of these dumbfucks vaccinated?

I hope so. Because honestly (and I do feel a little bad about this) my reaction to “let’s protect the unvaccinated” is “Fuck them.”

Has anyone else noticed a massive uptick in the last day or so in news stories implying we’ll all have to go back into lockdown, vaccinated or not?  Is there something new in terms of how vaccinated people react to Delta?
Exsmples:
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/25/1010151575/new-covid-19-outbreaks-are-driving-some-places-back-under-lockdown-and-behind-ma
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/world/middleeast/israel-covid-delta-variant.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210625&instance_id=33851&nl=the-morning&regi_id=115763618&segment_id=61711&te=1&user_id=52582b04c3b92afd841aaf462e715115

Yep. There WILL be seasonal upticks among the unvaccinated, and that number is fucking stupid high. I’ve really lost my tolerance for adults who don’t get vaccinated. It pisses me off.

Need to work on getting the black and Latinx caught up.  Asians are kicking ass.

My wife sent me a very Greesnpointian text this morning “terrifying if true” and then link to fear porn article where one individual said Delta variant transmits in 10 seconds based on some veery sketchy contact tracing imo

Welp, fucking "Empowered Stupidity" strikes again in North Carolina and Nebraska.  Fucking dipshits at N.C. State thought "But muh body, muh freedom"...more than half the fucking team wasn't vaccinated before coming to Omaha (in the last 4 months, they could have found a mid-week to bite the bullet and all get the vaccine and feel like shit for 48 hours together).  What's more?  A half dozen or so players have been complaining about a bug and not feeling well for about a week now.  Hmmmm, wonder what the fuck that could be?  

So N.C. State is going to have to likely play Vanderbilt twice (today and tomorrow) using just 13 players (9 position, 4 pitchers).  Their game is starting late today, which means our night game will be delayed and possibly pressed until tomorrow because of late night storms rolling in the area.  So at this point, we'll be fucking lucky to not have to play every single day from yesterday to Wednesday.  And we get very likely get to play a Vandy team who'll have just got done basically hitting BP for 1 1/2 games. 

Do whatever you want with your body, but the fucking stupid people have got to understand once and for all, this a communicable disease and community spread is what hurts people.  Meaning what you decide to do with your "freedoms" impacts a lot of people around you.  It's currently affecting Texas' chances in Omaha so somebody gonna have to stab a bitch.  /rant

Having ranted all that, if N.C. State somehow beats Vandy twice in 24 hours with 13 guys and then beats us in the Championships...I'll reverse my vaccine shots.  Because that's damn impressive baseball.  Or maybe let the Covid-19 guys play and see what they're capable of, maybe it can take away your taste and smell but super heightens your ability to see the break on a curveball and knock the shit out of it.  

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Need to work on getting the black and Latinx caught up.  Asians are kicking ass.

Here is what I'm struggling with... I keep hearing in the media that it is the right-wing white Trumpers who are avoiding the vaccine and causing all the problems. That doesn't jive with the above stats.

Blacks are 87% democrat and 33% vaccinated.  Hispanic are 66% democrat and 38% vaccinated.  I guess it is the republican blacks and hispanics who aren't getting vaccinated???

Are you just now reading your 7th grade social studies book?  The skepticism of government vaccination programs in the African American Black community couldn't be more well founded, nor more well documented if it was printed on the back of your CDC vaccine card.  It's a historical skepticism rooted in facts and science and really awful stories from uncles.    

The Hispanic one is a little more vague and "cultural", for much of my mom and her family---you don't go to the doctor or get any shot unless you have a bone or organ sticking out of body.  Proactive treatment and wellness (including vaccines) are not a high priority for much of my people.  Instead, they prefer to just complain incessantly to anyone who'll listen about what's wrong with them and then do absolutely nothing about it.  Nothing about the vaccination patterns of people of color (including high rates in the Asian community) has surprised most people...at all.  

The White population isn't so much about Trump, I think...more overarching socio-political.  But a debate for another thread.  

9 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Here is what I'm struggling with... I keep hearing in the media that it is the right-wing white Trumpers who are avoiding the vaccine and causing all the problems. That doesn't jive with the above stats.

Blacks are 87% democrat and 33% vaccinated.  Hispanic are 66% democrat and 38% vaccinated.  I guess it is the republican blacks and hispanics who aren't getting vaccinated???

Yeah, it's a more complex picture than that.

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Are you just now reading your 7th grade social studies book?  The skepticism of government vaccination programs in the African American Black community couldn't be more well founded, nor more well documented if it was printed on the back of your CDC vaccine card.  It's a historical skepticism rooted in facts and science and really awful stories from uncles.    

The Hispanic one is a little more vague and "cultural", for much of my mom and her family---you don't go to the doctor or get any shot unless you have a bone or organ sticking out of body.  Proactive treatment and wellness (including vaccines) are not a high priority for much of my people.  Instead, they prefer to just complain incessantly to anyone who'll listen about what's wrong with them and then do absolutely nothing about it.  Nothing about the vaccination patterns of people of color (including high rates in the Asian community) has surprised most people...at all.  

The White population isn't so much about Trump, I think...more overarching socio-political.  But a debate for another thread.  

There's been plenty of talk about the low vax rates in the black community, won't rehash it here.  But the bolded...that's also maddening.  I've posted before about how I don't get that so many hispanics just flat-out opt out of using child seats.  Like, at all.  No good reason.  They just don't use them.  It's such an easy life-safety step to take, and the participation rate is awful.

I'm guessing vaccines are the same way.   There may be some overarching "life is cheap, and up to the vagaries of God/chance" ethos, I don't know.  But for fuck's sake, just take the shot.  Park mobile vaccination vans outside of La Michoacana or something, give away free lottery tickets if you get a shot, whatever it takes.

Rednecks who act like obstinate toddlers piss me off.

Hispanics who refuse to take part in basis health measures frustrate and confuse me.

Black people who don't want to get government shots...well, I understand that one.

All three have to be overcome with different approaches.

I suspect Texas hispanics are getting vaccinated at a high rate just looking at it on a county by county basis.

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, it's a more complex picture than that.

There's been plenty of talk about the low vax rates in the black community, won't rehash it here.  But the bolded...that's also maddening.  I've posted before about how I don't get that so many hispanics just flat-out opt out of using child seats.  Like, at all.  No good reason.  They just don't use them.  It's such an easy life-safety step to take, and the participation rate is awful.

I'm guessing vaccines are the same way.   There may be some overarching "life is cheap, and up to the vagaries of God/chance" ethos, I don't know.  But for fuck's sake, just take the shot.  Park mobile vaccination vans outside of La Michoacana or something, give away free lottery tickets if you get a shot, whatever it takes.

Rednecks who act like obstinate toddlers piss me off.

Hispanics who refuse to take part in basis health measures frustrate and confuse me.

Black people who don't want to get government shots...well, I understand that one.

All three have to be overcome with different approaches.

The black hesitancy would be more understandable/rational if the government was just trying to give it to them like Tuskegee. But that isn't the case.

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I suspect Texas hispanics are getting vaccinated at a high rate just looking at it on a county by county basis.

I think that's right, but we also have a large "long-time resident" hispanic population.  The phenomenon I've observed (e.g., the failure to use child seats) is more of a recent immigrant phenomenon.  My hypothesis is that among 3rd gen or greater hispanics, the vaccination rate is closer to the rate for the population as a whole.  But again, just my hypothesis.

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, it's a more complex picture than that.

There's been plenty of talk about the low vax rates in the black community, won't rehash it here.  But the bolded...that's also maddening.  I've posted before about how I don't get that so many hispanics just flat-out opt out of using child seats.  Like, at all.  No good reason.  They just don't use them.  It's such an easy life-safety step to take, and the participation rate is awful.

I'm guessing vaccines are the same way.   There may be some overarching "life is cheap, and up to the vagaries of God/chance" ethos, I don't know.  But for fuck's sake, just take the shot.  Park mobile vaccination vans outside of La Michoacana or something, give away free lottery tickets if you get a shot, whatever it takes.

Rednecks who act like obstinate toddlers piss me off.

Hispanics who refuse to take part in basis health measures frustrate and confuse me.

Black people who don't want to get government shots...well, I understand that one.

All three have to be overcome with different approaches.

Shit, I didn't even get into the whole "Si Dios Quiere."  If there's a Hispanic who is over 50 who didn't get the vaccine yet, politics don't make a shit, I can tell you with 90% certainty that there is a sign or candle or chotchkie somewhere in their house that says, "Si Dios Quiere."  That mentality is fine for cancer or getting on an airplane...but it's pussy bullshit for such a tight-knit community.  "Well, I know we have your tia living in the back of the house and we celebrate every 3rd cousins' grandkids' middle school graduation with 95 people in a 3/2...and I know I should get the shot...but Si Dios Quiere."  It's fucking maddening.  It's like the old man in the flood (radio report, boat, helicopter) and he dies anyway.  I tell my Mom, he sent you testing, mitigation, and a vaccine...the rest isn't up to his will, it's up to yours.  She still refused, only buckled when I flipped my hole card---you aren't allowed around your grandchildren until you get it or we reach herd immunity.  She had an appointment at Walgreen's the next day and I sent her a plane ticket the day after that. 

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

Shit, I didn't even get into the whole "Si Dios Quiere."  If there's a Hispanic who is over 50 who didn't get the vaccine yet, politics don't make a shit, I can tell you with 90% certainty that there is a sign or candle or chotchkie somewhere in their house that says, "Si Dios Quiere."  That mentality is fine for cancer or getting on an airplane...but it's pussy bullshit for such a tight-knit community.  "Well, I know we have your tia living in the back of the house and we celebrate every 3rd cousins' grandkids' middle school graduation with 95 people in a 3/2...and I know I should get the shot...but Si Dios Quiere."  It's fucking maddening.  It's like the old man in the flood (radio report, boat, helicopter) and he dies anyway.  I tell my Mom, he sent you testing, mitigation, and a vaccine...the rest isn't up to his will, it's up to yours.  She still refused, only buckled when I flipped my hole card---you aren't allowed around your grandchildren until you get it or we reach herd immunity.  She had an appointment at Walgreen's the next day and I sent her a plane ticket the day after that. 

Verdad.

Like I said, maddening.  God gave us smart people who developed medicines.  But then again, go to a CVS anywhere near a border, and they have a whole damned section of "mexican herbal remedies" -- it's like "essential oils" and shit for Karens, but with a delightful latin flavor.

That's shit's harmless.  You repackage it, put a woman named Karen or Jennifer as the head distributor in her region, recruit a bunch of other soccer moms to a wine party to sample the products, pretty soon those $1 packages are going for $29.95 as part of a "Wellness and Serenity...Wellenity."  You could qualify for the national platinum roundtable in as little as 6 months if you preorder your inventory from me right now.  

And before I get anybody on here telling me not to worry so much about my non-vaxx mother being around my two little kids because the changes of them getting it are so damn low, not to try to control her.  the "Si Dios Quiere" and grandkid threat was just cosmetic.  It was all a ruse to get her to take it to save herself.  We would never have kept her from her grandchildren, but if she had gotten Covid-19, she'd be dead before they swabbed her second nostril.  

43 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

The black hesitancy would be more understandable/rational if the government was just trying to give it to them like Tuskegee. But that isn't the case.

that makes sense, but then you have

 

49 minutes ago, Viper said:

that makes sense, but then you have

 

Dammit tim

SIAP

Quote

TEL AVIV—About half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer Inc. vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures to contain the highly transmissible strain.

WSJ

5 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

SIAP

WSJ

That don't mean shit without knowing symptom status, hosptalization, etc. Is that reported in the article?

Is Tim Crowder irradiating athletes?  Seems more harmful than vaccinations...

18 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

SIAP

WSJ

 

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

That don't mean shit without knowing symptom status, hosptalization, etc. Is that reported in the article?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/israel-says-the-delta-variant-is-infecting-vaccinated-people-as-many-as-50-25-of-cases-but-they-are-less-severe/ar-AALoer5

Quote

Levy said that approximately 40 to 50% of new cases were people who had been vaccinated. He did not appear to specify a timeframe for the new cases.

The figure is likely to be an estimate, as the ministry is still analyzing data about the cases. On Monday, Levy's estimate was lower: he said only a third of the new daily cases were people who had been vaccinated.

It is also not clear whether those would have been fully vaccinated or received only one shot of the vaccine.

...

Although the infections among vaccinated people have alarmed Israelis, the infections do not appear to be as severe as in unvaccinated people.

As of Monday no severe cases of COVID-19 had been reported from the latest surge, Ran Balicer, public health director for Clalit said in a tweet.

 

tldr;

these are off the cuff estimates being headlines by a fearmongering media.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Viper

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

That don't mean shit without knowing symptom status, hosptalization, etc. Is that reported in the article?

From the article:

Quote

Is­raeli health of­fi­cials are op­ti­mistic that even if the vari­ant does spread, ev­i­dence from coun­tries such as the U.K. in­di­cate the vac­cine will pre­vent a large in­crease in se­vere ill­ness and hos­pi­tal­iza-tions that plagued the coun­try’s health sys­tem in pre­vi­ous out­breaks. Is­rael has only recorded five se­vere cases in the past 10 days, Prof. Bal­icer said, but whether more will emerge is too early to tell.

Most cases are minor. Still they are reinstating mask requirements, which may be foretelling for at least some pockets of this country. 

3 minutes ago, Viper said:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/israel-says-the-delta-variant-is-infecting-vaccinated-people-as-many-as-50-25-of-cases-but-they-are-less-severe/ar-AALoer5

 

tldr;

these are off the cuff estimates being headlines by a fearmongering media.

Perhaps so, but the Israeli government appears to be freaking out about this. 

I’m so sick of this shit.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/covid-breakthrough-cases-cdc-says-more-than-4100-people-have-been-hospitalized-or-died-after-vaccination.html

Headline in huge letters:

“CDC says roughly 4,100 people have been hospitalized or died with Covid breakthrough infections after vaccination”

Then, right after the headline, we have “Key Points”, which include these two bullet points (out of three):

• 4,115 people have been hospitalized or died with Covid-19 despite being fully vaccinated.
• The total number of individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 despite vaccination is 750.

But here’s what is actually in the body of the article (emphasis mine):

“More than 4,100 people have been hospitalized or died with Covid-19 in the U.S. even though they’ve been fully vaccinated, according to new data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

So far, at least 750 fully vaccinated people have died after contracting Covid,but the CDC noted that 142 of those fatalities were asymptomatic or unrelated to Covid-19, according to data as of Monday that was released Friday.

The CDC received 3,907 reports of people who have been hospitalized with breakthrough Covid infections, despite being fully vaccinated. Of those, more than 1,000 of those patients were asymptomatic or their hospitalizations weren’t related to Covid-19, the CDC said.”

17 hours ago, Viper said:

that makes sense, but then you have

 

Getting real sick of the ‘only stupid people don’t get vaccinated, unless you’re black, then it makes sense because of white supremacy."  I ridicule anyone who is dumb enough not to get the vaccine.  And that includes a whole lot of people that I have quite a bit of political alignment with.

I guess my main point above is that I don’t think getting vaccinated or not is really that much of a political thing. Plenty of Democrats aren’t getting the vaccine, especially blacks and Hispanics.  Plenty of Republicans aren’t getting the vaccine, especially rural rednecks. No need for political finger pointing. Just get freaking vaccinated.

It don’t matter what your politics may be but a whole lot of people are gonna unnecessarily die and/or take up hospital beds this fall and winter because they’re total dumbasses and absent some sort of miracle there’s really not much that can be done about it. It is what it is. 

Is there a correlation between education level and vaccination rates?

There is certainly a correlation, but not a very strong one.  Same reason you see nurses outside Saint David's smoking like it's the end of the world.  

Is there a correlation between education level and vaccination rates?

There is certainly a correlation, but not a very strong one.  Same reason you see nurses outside Saint David's smoking like it's the end of the world.  

Actually if I remember correctly it’s a very strong one. As in just as predictive more so than political partisanship, race, whatever. That’s just what I recall reading, I may need to be corrected.

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

There is certainly a correlation, but not a very strong one.  Same reason you see nurses outside Saint David's smoking like it's the end of the world.  

Nurses often smoke because they cray, not based on their education level. There are really smart nurses, really dumb ones and everything in between. But they pretty much all be cray. You have to be to do what they do. 

23 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

 

Actually if I remember correctly it’s a very strong one. As in just as predictive more so than political partisanship, race, whatever. That’s just what I recall reading, I may need to be corrected.

 

I do believe you’re correct on that. 

Last night the Austin FC game there were no masks. I saw two people wearing them who weren’t stadium staff. Thousands of kids under 12 who wouldn’t be vaccinated, all mask free. If that event doesn’t cause a spike, I doubt anything will.