COVID-19 vaccine discussion

51 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

Not Europe; I'm in the wrong Surly 1% for that.  We're heading to New Mexico for some cool air and rest.

Hopefully you are heading to somewhere like Cloudcroft.  New Mexico is very underrated.

9 hours ago, ruitxn said:

If you are vaxed, welcome.  We need your money…and yes it is cool in the mountains!

We're both vaxed.  We'll get boosters before we go, if we can.  And you'll get more of my money than I should spend, but not as much as I want to spend.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Scheiss Meister

9 hours ago, Hate said:

Hopefully you are heading to somewhere like Cloudcroft.  New Mexico is very underrated.

Cloudcroft is closed. Back off war-child. Seriously. 

9 hours ago, Hate said:

Hopefully you are heading to somewhere like Cloudcroft.  New Mexico is very underrated.

Shhhh, no, New Mexico sucks. Don’t go there. Everybody stay the fuck away from New Mexico.

9 hours ago, Hate said:

Hopefully you are heading to somewhere like Cloudcroft.  New Mexico is very underrated.

Cloudcroft. Great place. You can be snowed/hailed on and 30 minutes later be sweating in White Sands. 

Question - can you test positive from getting the vaccine?  I finally got one set of neighbors to get vaccinated, and the husband tested positive the day after the shot and is showing symptoms and tested positive on a test strip. He claims it's the vaccine, I say inconclusive and could just be coincidence of timing. 

So, been going through the drill -- son (age 18, fully vaxxed) woke up with a 102 fever last night, and chills.  Shit.  So, we went and grabbed a box of take-home tests.

His fever broke overnight, so that's good.  Tested him -- negative.  We're thinking that maybe the RSV that's going around (hospitals are actually seeing a lot of those cases as well right now) is the culprit.  But still....we're doing our best to avoid contact with him for a while, and to avoid contact with others.  We'll test him again tomorrow, just to be sure.

And per certain court rules and orders, I need to inform a trial court if I've been in proximity with someone who even has SYMPTOMS, so I will need to make that disclosure soon, which may have an impact on things.

These are some fucked up times, man.

9 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Question - can you test positive from getting the vaccine?  I finally got one set of neighbors to get vaccinated, and the husband tested positive the day after the shot and is showing symptoms and tested positive on a test strip. He claims it's the vaccine, I say inconclusive and could just be coincidence of timing. 

more likely he already had it before the vaccine.  it takes a couple days to show up as positive.  you gotta let that virus multiply before its detectable.

1 minute ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

more likely he already had it before the vaccine.  it takes a couple days to show up as positive.  you gotta let that virus multiply before its detectable.

Evidence suggests that testing tends to be less accurate within three days of exposure, and the best time to get tested is five to seven days after you were exposed. Tests are even more accurate when patients are exhibiting symptoms.

 

https://nortonhealthcare.com/news/how-long-after-exposure-to-test-positive-for-covid/

13 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Question - can you test positive from getting the vaccine?  I finally got one set of neighbors to get vaccinated, and the husband tested positive the day after the shot and is showing symptoms and tested positive on a test strip. He claims it's the vaccine, I say inconclusive and could just be coincidence of timing. 

No. None of the vaccines can cause you to test positive (at least  the ones being used in the US).

Anyone got an update on how well Lamar Jackson’s vaccine research is coming along? 

12 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Anyone got an update on how well Lamar Jackson’s vaccine research is coming along? 

It's proceeding in parallel at the same pace and level of success as OJ's search for the real killers.  So, I'd say it's going quite well.

9 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Anyone got an update on how well Lamar Jackson’s vaccine research is coming along? 

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's proceeding in parallel at the same pace and level of success as OJ's search for the real killers.  So, I'd say it's going quite well.

You laugh but I just heard Big Ben has ordered up a shitload of white lab coats. Personally I’m not getting the vaccine until Big Ben tweets that it’s “a ok.”

Anyone got an update on how well Lamar Jackson’s vaccine research is coming along? 

Maybe the third time will be the charm.

49 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

So, been going through the drill -- son (age 18, fully vaxxed) woke up with a 102 fever last night, and chills.  Shit.  So, we went and grabbed a box of take-home tests.

His fever broke overnight, so that's good.  Tested him -- negative.  We're thinking that maybe the RSV that's going around (hospitals are actually seeing a lot of those cases as well right now) is the culprit.  But still....we're doing our best to avoid contact with him for a while, and to avoid contact with others.  We'll test him again tomorrow, just to be sure.

And per certain court rules and orders, I need to inform a trial court if I've been in proximity with someone who even has SYMPTOMS, so I will need to make that disclosure soon, which may have an impact on things.

These are some fucked up times, man.

That RSV going around is no joke, it damn near put my daughter in the hospital with pneumonia. She’s only 4 and obviously that’s different than your 18 old, but still you want to stay in front of it if you can. 

22 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

That RSV going around is no joke, it damn near put my daughter in the hospital with pneumonia. She’s only 4 and obviously that’s different than your 18 old, but still you want to stay in front of it if you can. 

Glad your girl is doing okay now.

And yeah, we're mega-dosing him with zinc and vitamin D, and he's drinking gatorade after his fever burning through him and breaking last night.  And rest, of course.

And the rest of us are still giving him a wide berth, sanitizing surfaces, etc., so whatever it is, the rest of us don't catch it.

This is all just so fucking exhausting and demoralizing.  We're never going to get out of this mess.  We're going to be living with this threat -- at a materially high level -- for years to come.  Fuck, forever, at this point.  I'm not talking "just a background thing that pops up now and then."  At this point, I'm convinced that we'll see spike, after spike, after spike, after spike.  Ad infinitum.

I want a normal world and life.  I want my kids to have a normal college experience. That's just not going to happen, and they can never get it back.  Fuck, I don't even know what their work and travel life will be like AFTER college.  Probably still shitty.  Because people fucking suck.

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Glad your girl is doing okay now.

And yeah, we're mega-dosing him with zinc and vitamin D, and he's drinking gatorade after his fever burning through him and breaking last night.  And rest, of course.

And the rest of us are still giving him a wide berth, sanitizing surfaces, etc., so whatever it is, the rest of us don't catch it.

This is all just so fucking exhausting and demoralizing.  We're never going to get out of this mess.  We're going to be living with this threat -- at a materially high level -- for years to come.  Fuck, forever, at this point.  I'm not talking "just a background thing that pops up now and then."  At this point, I'm convinced that we'll see spike, after spike, after spike, after spike.  Ad infinitum.

I want a normal world and life.  I want my kids to have a normal college experience. That's just not going to happen, and they can never get it back.  Fuck, I don't even know what their work and travel life will be like AFTER college.  Probably still shitty.  Because people fucking suck.

It will become endemic, and as it does so our bodies will maintain a sufficient level of antibodies and Tcells to make it a nuisance like a cold or flu.  It’s not nearly as grim an outlook as you present here. 

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

It will become endemic, and as it does so our bodies will maintain a sufficient level of antibodies and Tcells to make it a nuisance like a cold or flu.  It’s not nearly as grim an outlook as you present here. 

Massive reservoirs of unvaccinated people = continuing variants.

If you loved Delta, you're gonna LOVE Psi!

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Massive reservoirs of unvaccinated people = continuing variants.

If you loved Delta, you're gonna LOVE Psi!

Not quite. A Newsweek article explained this pretty well. Thankfully the spike protein on the virus can only undergo so many changes before it becomes non functional. Of these hundred or so changes a handful might make the virus nastier, i.e., Delta.

The article notes an important difference between Covid and the Flu virus is Covid cannot mix and match genetic material between different variants so Covid should not require a "guess" on what vaccine to manufacture to maintain efficacy. 

 

And in my expert opinion there are only so many letters in the Greek alphabet. So we have that going for us. 

8 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

And in my expert opinion there are only so many letters in the Greek alphabet. So we have that going for us. 

Unfortunately, in my complex litigation experience, some asshole always submits a kabillion exhibits with designations like "Exhibit AAZ."  And yes, that's obviously pronounced "azz."

As for good news on COVID, I'll believe it when it actually fucking happens.  We have a silver bullet, but we steadfastly refuse (as a species) to let it work.  So, we'll just fuck ourselves over and over.  Because that's what we do.

youtube.com/watch?v=qvPugcb7QGE

17 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

Not quite. A Newsweek article explained this pretty well. Thankfully the spike protein on the virus can only undergo so many changes before it becomes non functional. Of these hundred or so changes a handful might make the virus nastier, i.e., Delta.

The article notes an important difference between Covid and the Flu virus is Covid cannot mix and match genetic material between different variants so Covid should not require a "guess" on what vaccine to manufacture to maintain efficacy. 

 

And in my expert opinion there are only so many letters in the Greek alphabet. So we have that going for us. 

Maybe we can pull a reverse hurricane approach to variants. Once we run of out Greek letters, we can switch to new variant names for 2022:

 

Althea

Bob

Caitlyn

Devin

Ellen

Franscisco

Gertrude

Harry

Ingrid

Jack

Karen

Larry

Monique

Ned

Ophelia

Phillip

Reba

Stuart

Thelma

Unger

Velma

William

Yvonne

Zed

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

That RSV going around is no joke, it damn near put my daughter in the hospital with pneumonia. She’s only 4 and obviously that’s different than your 18 old, but still you want to stay in front of it if you can. 

My daughter got a bad case when she was 2.  Caused a febrile seizure and a fever of 106 (which landed us at Dell Children's).  Had to do breathing treatments for a month.  It's not something to fuck with, especially in young kids.

9 minutes ago, texasdago said:

Maybe we can pull a reverse hurricane approach to variants. Once we run of out Greek letters, we can switch to new variant names for 2022:

 

Althea

Bob

Caitlyn

Devin

Ellen

Franscisco

Gertrude

Harry

Ingrid

Jack

Karen

Larry

Monique

Ned

Ophelia

Phillip

Reba

Stuart

Thelma

Unger

Velma

William

Yvonne

Zed

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Massive reservoirs of unvaccinated people = continuing variants.

If you loved Delta, you're gonna LOVE Psi!

Here's a good twitter thread on why "thinking for yourself" on this stuff is so fucking stupid:

Quote

Because I like exterminating any residual shreds of faith in humanity, I looked through the overwhelmingly hostile comments on a YouTube video by a doctor debunking some covid misinformation tonight. I noticed an interesting parallel to some “election theft” disinfo. 

Here’s what I note in both cases: The cranks typically have the superficial trappings of real science. Links to journal articles on the one hand, or on the other, impressively hackery looking hex dumps & spreadsheets full of IP addresses. “See, I’m giving you the evidence…” 

Now in both cases, this evidence is absolutely useless to the target audience. They have neither the training nor the context to evaluate the quality or relevance of technical articles in medical journals—or even to understand what the article is claiming in many cases. 

Ditto on the “election fraud” side: The target audience has no idea what a real packet capture looks like, or whether it makes any sense that someone would have the kind of information claimed in that spreadsheet full of numbers. 

They are, however, being flattered by the INVITATION to assess the evidence for themselves—do your own research, make up your own mind! 
So what do the responses from acutal experts look like? Well, generally pretty dismissive—understandably so—because they can tell the evidence is nonsense, and typically aren’t super interested spending hours going into granular detail about why… 

…or throwing around citations to technical material they know full well a lay audience isn’t remotely equipped to understand. (The people who ARE equipped to understand the technical material don’t need a pop debunking.) 

So they’ll do a quickie explainer of why some particular claim is wrong in lay terms, but they’re typically not going to bother with a bunch of citations that might be relevant to a peer specialist. To a lot of the audience, this comes across as “arrogant.” 

The crank is flattering me with a display of technical jargon and a mountain of citations to “evidence.” I’m not equipped to evaluate that “evidence,” but I can nod along and say “oh yes, I see,” and feel like I’ve been treated as a peer. 

The actual experts understands that this would be a performative and pointless. So past a fairly superficial point they go with some version of “99% of us who spent years studying this are on the same page, and you sort of have to trust us.” Which can feel patronizing. 

What the crank is doing is ultimately a lot more condescending—the equivalent of giving a child a fake cell phone so they can “make calls” just like mom & dad. They’re pretending not to ultimately rely on trust, and so they get trust. 

The actual expert is honest about this part of it: I can’t take you through med school or a CS degree in a YouTube video. I could give you some papers, but even if you’re extremely smart, you wouldn’t understand them without that training. And to the insecure, that feels bad. 

It’s the byproduct of a culture that valorizes (at least nominally) the ideal of being an independent thinker who questions the received wisdom rather than just accepting things on authority. Which is healthy in lots of ways! And yet… 

…the vast majority of human knowledge is beyond anyone’s capability to personally verify. Past a fairly superficial point, we have to take most things “on authority” in some sense. And the folks who trust the crank are too, of course! 

What the crank is giving people is the *illusion* of not trusting an authority—unlike all those sheep who trust the *mainstream* authorities. A bit like the media elites who win large followings by telling you not to trust media elites. 

The expert who’s treating you like an adult is the one who, at some point, is willing to say “I’m sorry, you don’t have the math” rather than pretending common sense conquers every domain of knowledge.

 

TLDR, stop pretending that you can pass med school right now because you looked at a shitty study you're not even capable of evaluating the quality of. 

12 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Here's a good twitter thread on why "thinking for yourself" on this stuff is so fucking stupid:

TLDR, stop pretending that you can pass med school right now because you looked at a shitty study you're not even capable of evaluating the quality of. 

An even shorter version, words of wisdom from my S. Texas oilpatch/rancher grandpa:

"Be smart enough to know how dumb you are."

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

An even shorter version, words of wisdom from my S. Texas oilpatch/rancher grandpa:

"Be smart enough to know how dumb you are."

That's nice and concise. Who are you and what have you done with Brisketexan?

Not peer reviewed, but study says Moderna may be more effective than Pfizer against Delta (76% vs 42%). Recommendation is that people who got Pfizer get a Moderna booster. 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf

I'm not smart enough to understand all of the stuff in there so maybe someone who is versed on this shit can interpret for the rest of us...

Finally, the last of my adult cousin holdouts got his 2nd dose yesterday. Months of “nambre cuhhhh you don’t know wat’s in there” gave in to common sense. He’s an RGV dude too. It’s a battle down there, lots of people that have a big mistrust in government & are low in critical thinking skills. Not a good combo. But still lots of other people that want to do the right thing, just need some extra convincing. Everyone in my (huge) family has it now, except some of my teen & preteen cousins maybe. Even my “Latinos for trump” tios & tias have it. The small victories.

8 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Finally, the last of my adult cousin holdouts got his 2nd dose yesterday. Months of “nambre cuhhhh you don’t know wat’s in there” gave in to common sense. He’s an RGV dude too. It’s a battle down there, lots of people that have a big mistrust in government & are low in critical thinking skills. Not a good combo. But still lots of other people that want to do the right thing, just need some extra convincing. Everyone in my (huge) family has it now, except some of my teen & preteen cousins maybe. Even my “Latinos for trump” tios & tias have it. The small victories.

I think the RGV has some of the higher vaccine rates in the state.

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

I think the RGV has some of the higher vaccine rates in the state.

I remember reading cameron county did like 6000 in a day when it first came available. I assumed it’d tapered off but damn maybe I underestimate my homeland. Good to hear for sure. 

I think the RGV has some of the higher vaccine rates in the state.

You're correct. I'm sure it has something to do with that area getting hit hard prior to any vaccinations being available?

5 minutes ago, smoky said:

12 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I think the RGV has some of the higher vaccine rates in the state.

You're correct. I'm sure it has something to do with that area getting hit hard prior to any vaccinations being available?

I know the elderly were all getting it down there ASAP. I had lots of non-elderly family get it but there were some holdouts that only got it later on after being pressured. Assumed everyone else down there was like them but glad to see I was wrong and I’m just related to idiots.

That's nice and concise. Who are you and what have you done with Brisketexan?

PM Lobo.

5 hours ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

Evidence suggests that testing tends to be less accurate within three days of exposure, and the best time to get tested is five to seven days after you were exposed. Tests are even more accurate when patients are exhibiting symptoms.

 

https://nortonhealthcare.com/news/how-long-after-exposure-to-test-positive-for-covid/

This is why I waited to test until Monday.  I started feeling bad on Thursday.  Exposure would have been either August 4, July 31, or July 30.  So taking the test on the 9th is in the sweet spot (doubt it was the 4th since I don't think I would have started having symptoms the next day, but maybe with Delta, it is much, much quicker).  

Either way, all negative, which is nice.

@crimsonlonghorn, i am asking here so as to not clutter the gun thread with an irrelevant and unncessary tangent.  this thread seems more appropriate and relevant.  i am familiar enough with your historical posts to know that i don't agree with you on basically anything.  but i am actually curious about your response to this because i am genuinely trying to get my head around the way people like you are currently perceiving the world.  in the surly gun thread, you said the following:

Quote

Spent all of last week in the hospital with Covid thinking I was going to die.

Now I'm home and getting better all I want to do is get off my ass and go shoot something: clay targets, pigs, coffee cans. I don't care. 

Bought my uncle's ranch back in July and had plans to spend all of August working out there and moving ammo and guns. Instead, I'm sitting here struggling to breathe all day long. 

Gonna be a while. This sucks.

 

then fondren&main asked you if you had received the vaccine and you said this:

 

Quote

Did not. Having some second thoughts on that but still wrestling with it.

 

i am genuinely curious with what you are "wrestling with" on this.  i am trying to understand how your thought process.  imagine the logic of this dialogue...

all legitimate doctors: crimson, you should get the vaccine to mitigate the severity of the effects if you get covid and to try and mitigate the transmission of covid.

crimson: no. "reasons."

later...

crimson: it hurts, please let me come live in your workplace for a week.  i will do whatever you tell me and take whatever you tell me to save my life.  please let me live in the hospital for a week and please save my life.

doctors and nurses:  after a week worth of treatement and saving crimson's life without crimson questioning anything the dr. did, if you would have had the vaccine, we likely could have avoided all of this.

crimson: hmmm, i'm still "wrestling with this."

while my dialogue is flippant and dismissive of your thought process prior to getting sick, i genuinely want to understand why it is you still think it was something worth wrestling with when all the people that you put at risk to save your life told you what you should have done.  can you please elaborate on what it is you are wrestling with? it might be instructive.

Edited August 10, 2021 by sidis

3 minutes ago, sidis said:

@crimsonlonghorn, i am asking here so as to not clutter the gun thread with an irrelevant and unncessary tangent.  this thread seems more appropriate and relevant.  i am familiar enough with your historical posts to know that i don't agree with you on basically anything.  but i am actually curious about your response to this because i am genuinely trying to get my head around the way people like you are currently perceiving the world.  in the surly gun thread, you said the following:

 

then fondren&main asked you if you had received the vaccine and you said this:

 

 

i am genuinely curious with what you are "wrestling with" on this.  i am trying to understand how your thought process.  imagine the logic of this dialogue...

all legitimate doctors: crimson, you should get the vaccine to mitigate the severity of the effects if you get covid and to try and mitigate the transmission of covid.

crimson: no. "reasons."

later...

crimson: it hurts, please let me come live in your workplace for a week.  i will do whatever you tell me and take whatever you tell me to save my life.  please let me live in the hospital for a week and please save my life.

doctors and nurses:  after a week worth of treatement and saving crimson's life without crimson questioning anything the dr. did, if you would have had the vaccine, we likely could have avoided all of this.

crimson: hmmm, i'm still "wrestling with this."

while my dialogue is flippant and dismissive of your thought process prior to getting sick, i genuinely want to understand why it is you still think it was something worth wrestling with when all the people that you put at risk to save your life told you what you should have done.  can you please elaborate on what it is you are wrestling with? it might be instructive.

My BIL is in this group.  From what I can gather, his 'reasons' are that he doesn't want anyone to tell him what to do, and this is the hill he's willing to die on.  He's smart, he's not a Trumper.  He's not a Qtard.  He's not an anti-masker.  He's just a stubborn ass Texan.

I’m guessing they can’t afford any staff defections. 

 

7 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

I’m guessing they can’t afford any staff defections. 

 

FAA should mandate vaccines for all customer facing employees of airlines.  And require vaccinations for the public to fly.  

I'm done with the carrot.  Too many fucking stupid people in this country have shown us that the carrot doesn't work for ~40% of the country.  It's time for the stick.  No vaccine, no flying.  No vaccine, no movies.  No vaccine, no gyms or restaurants.

8 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

I’m guessing they can’t afford any staff defections. 

 

Ugh. I'm curious what their vaccination rates are. 

FAA should mandate vaccines for all customer facing employees of airlines.  And require vaccinations for the public to fly.  
I'm done with the carrot.  Too many fucking stupid people in this country have shown us that the carrot doesn't work for ~40% of the country.  It's time for the stick.  No vaccine, no flying.  No vaccine, no movies.  No vaccine, no gyms or restaurants.

And who’s going to be checking vaxx cards to IDs if establishments already have help wanted signs posted in every town ?? There’s only so many shlubs holding up furniture sale signs on the corners, those are the only people I can think of that can handle matching cards to IDs 8 hrs a day

And who’s going to be checking vaxx cards to IDs if establishments already have help wanted signs posted in every town ?? There’s only so many shlubs holding up furniture sale signs on the corners, those are the only people I can think of that can handle matching cards to IDs 8 hrs a day

Yes, clearly that is the most pressing issue.

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

And who’s going to be checking vaxx cards to IDs if establishments already have help wanted signs posted in every town ?? There’s only so many shlubs holding up furniture sale signs on the corners, those are the only people I can think of that can handle matching cards to IDs 8 hrs a day

I seem to recall many a doorman back in the 90s checking ids to make sure I was 21 going into a bar on 6 street. Seemed to me a pretty easy job. But maybe times have changed since then.

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

And who’s going to be checking vaxx cards to IDs if establishments already have help wanted signs posted in every town ?? There’s only so many shlubs holding up furniture sale signs on the corners, those are the only people I can think of that can handle matching cards to IDs 8 hrs a day

In CA, there's an app with a QR code. A scan of code shows vaccination dates. So really, you need someone standing there with a QR reader.

1 minute ago, Foosters said:

In CA, there's an app with a QR code. A scan of code shows vaccination dates. So really, you need someone standing there with a QR reader.

Oh yeah?

Well.

Huh.

I seem to recall many a doorman back in the 90s checking ids to make sure I was 21 going into a bar on 6 street. Seemed to me a pretty easy job. But maybe times have changed since then.

A bouncer at a bar? Seems a little more enticing for some muscle head young guy compared to covering Barnes and noble.

2 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

And who’s going to be checking vaxx cards to IDs if establishments already have help wanted signs posted in every town ?? There’s only so many shlubs holding up furniture sale signs on the corners, those are the only people I can think of that can handle matching cards to IDs 8 hrs a day

I saw in France they just had cops with guns going around and checking. 

2 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

And who’s going to be checking vaxx cards to IDs if establishments already have help wanted signs posted in every town ?? There’s only so many shlubs holding up furniture sale signs on the corners, those are the only people I can think of that can handle matching cards to IDs 8 hrs a day

Don't sell yourself short. With some basic literacy courses you could probably handle it.