COVID-19 vaccine discussion

With most folks here posting north of 1k, I would be mildly concerned if I was significantly south of that.

1000 and above you're good.

350-1000, get yourself a booster

Below 350, you better stock up on horse paste and Evan Williams 100. You might possibly already be dead.

1000 and above you're good.
350-1000, get yourself a booster
Below 350, you better stock up on horse paste and Evan Williams 100. You might possibly already be dead.

I got 150 and I've been maskless in comal county for 6 months sans covid. So I've either got the best luck in the world, covid is a hoax, or my 12 inch dick is warding covid off like an antibody mosquito zapper. I'm assuming it's option 3.

I'm not going to read back, way too many pages. But has anyone had covid and tested zero for infection antibodies?

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You probably haven’t been at 150 the entire six months, though. 

51 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I'm not going to read back, way too many pages. But has anyone had covid and tested zero for infection antibodies?

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I asked this same question a week or so back and nobody answered so I am assuming no. Was also wondering if anyone got a surprise positive. No answer to that either and I think those are both really interesting data points. Wish we had a larger sample.

I don't know of anyone that had it and tested zero for antibodies.  

 

I asked this same question a week or so back and nobody answered so I am assuming no. Was also wondering if anyone got a surprise positive. No answer to that either and I think those are both really interesting data points. Wish we had a larger sample.

I had a few family members take and and no surprise ronas. I feel like if anything everyone thinks they've had it when they haven't.

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For people running out and getting boosters.  Read the FAQ.  The Texas cares studies states that they do not know the significance of the anti-body number.  I asked this before but maybe someone who understands the vaccines better.  My understanding is that its not the antibodies but its the t-cells left behind with their memory that are the mechanism for fighting an infection.   Anyone?

11 minutes ago, midtown said:

For people running out and getting boosters.  Read the FAQ.  The Texas cares studies states that they do not know the significance of the anti-body number.  I asked this before but maybe someone who understands the vaccines better.  My understanding is that its not the antibodies but its the t-cells left behind with their memory that are the mechanism for fighting an infection.   Anyone?

You can have memory B and T cells.  There hopefully will also be these things called long lived plasma cells generated after vaccination.  These are B cells that hang out in your bone marrow and secret antibodies continuously.  If we are still detecting antibodies in vaccinated individuals years from now that will indicate that they are present, and will be a very good sign for long term immunity post vaccination.  We have encouraging preliminary data that this may be occurring.

17 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

He's talking about this:

20/71 = 28% of vaccinated hospitalizations have resulted in death
186/1984 = 9.4% of unvaccinated hospitalizations have resulted in death

Now some stupid people will run with that as a reason not to get vaccinated. They will ignore the case rate and hospitalization rate. Hospitalization rate for unvaccinated is 1.90 versus 0.04 for vaccinated, so it's 47.5 times higher. So if you get to the point if hospitalization, the numbers say you're 3 times as likely to die if you're vaccinated. There are lots of possible explanations for this, including that maybe hospitalizations only happen to the extremely vulnerable members of the vaccinated population (who would have been hospitalized if they were unvaccinated as well). Either way, if you're 47.5 times more likely to be hospitalized if you're unvaccinated but then 1/3 as likely to die once hospitalized, you guessed it, this means that unvaccinated people are about 16 times more likely to die from COVID than vaccinated people.

All numbers only based on the San Diego data, obviously.

Good post.  To add to this, you need to look at the data on a more granular level.  Those that get vaccinated and die are usually older and have significantly more risk factors than their unvaccinated counterparts.  This isn't happening in healthy populations.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971221006391

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1198743X21003670?casa_token=QHZFcwIxbkoAAAAA:H-3DziM-WVQ15B8vmvnh880fhYJIndOQBVihSs1NmJKqH40oQ05asC7s6Tn6AjhF-rzqaXK2tw

  

Please don't get a third shot (or second for J&J) without talking to your doctor first.

Relying on innerweb geniuses for medical advice is how we ended up with people eating horse paste. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by The Dog

1 hour ago, midtown said:

For people running out and getting boosters.  Read the FAQ.  The Texas cares studies states that they do not know the significance of the anti-body number.  I asked this before but maybe someone who understands the vaccines better.  My understanding is that its not the antibodies but its the t-cells left behind with their memory that are the mechanism for fighting an infection.   Anyone?

I ended up just asking my PCP if I should get the booster.  I scheduled it through ARC for next week, which is about 7.5 months post 2nd Moderna shot.  He said I can go ahead and get it.

12 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

For those of you getting boosters: what makes you think you need one? Or is it just better safe than sorry?

I live in east Texas among the unvaxxed masses, my wife is a cancer survivor, I have two kids in public schools, and while my kids are vaccinated, the schools aren't doing jack shit to mitigate spread, and it had been 7 months since my second Pfizer shot.

6 hours ago, justhookit said:

I asked this same question a week or so back and nobody answered so I am assuming no. Was also wondering if anyone got a surprise positive. No answer to that either and I think those are both really interesting data points. Wish we had a larger sample.

Somebody posted that his wife results showed a previously unknown COVID infection.  I cannot remember who that was though.

We're all gonna need 3rd shots eventually and where I live currently has it's worst spike of the pandemic.  The local schools are doing nothing to stop the spread and we just had a jam packed County fair last weekend on top of it being Labor Day weekend.

Edited September 10, 2021 by kevwun

2 minutes ago, kevwun said:

We're all gonna need 3rd shots eventually and where I live currently has it's worst spike of the pandemic.  The local schools are doing nothing to stop the spread and we just had a jam packed County fair last weekend on top of it being Memorial Day weekend.

Memorial Day?

 

Forget it.  He's rolling.

Edited September 10, 2021 by dcbc

I don't know what you're talking about.

11 minutes ago, kevwun said:

We're all gonna need 3rd shots eventually

Are we?

On 9/7/2021 at 9:39 PM, Parliament said:

Re: boosters.  I'm pretty sure my 1st 2 shots where Pfizer.  Will my eventual booster need to be Pfizer as well?  Or is Moderna good too?  I don't wanna do it wrong and grow hooves.

This is the subject of multiple studies right now.  Preliminary evidence out of the UK suggests that mixing and matching the different technologies (mRNA [Pfizer, Moderna], adenovirus vector [J&J, Astrazeneca], and subunit vaccines [Novavax]) might drive a better and longer lasting immune response compared to sticking with one company.  This makes a lot of sense because the different technologies are going to stimulate different cell signaling pathways.  For example, mRNA mechanisms are better at stimulating the B-cell driven antibody response whereas the adenovirus vector vaccines are going to do a better job at building cellular (T cell) immunity.  

On 9/8/2021 at 7:59 AM, TexEx15 said:

Well had to sign my oldest up for a COVID test.  While on the ARC app it also let me schedule my booster - it actually specifically called out boosters starting in September.  Answered truthfully about not being immunocompromised and it only asked if it has been greater than six months from last shot.  At first I thought it was going to limit booster option to Pfizer given the full approval but was able to select Moderna and get scheduled for tomorrow.  I’m just over 7 months out from the second shot.  My Texas CARES number was 994 a few weeks ago.  Any reason not to do the booster?

 

It probably won't hurt you (we don't have large controlled trials to be sure), but I don't think you will really benefit much.    

On 9/8/2021 at 1:57 PM, Bevo said:

He isn't against the booster. I would say he is somewhat on the fence and taking a wait and see approach. A high number of breakthrough cases would probably change his opinion. Conversely, adverse events or a decrease in efficacy/increase in humoral response against lipid encapsulation would lead him to forgo the booster.

Right, I'm not against boosters, but breakthrough cases are not the metric I'm looking at.  The outcome of those cases is the key metric.  As long as the vaccine is preventing severe disease (which it is) I don't see much reason to get a booster.  And as I've outlined in prior posts there might be advantages to waiting and see how more experiments and trials play out before deciding when to get boosted and which shot to take.  

There is precedent for using infection outcomes rather than infections themselves in our recommended vaccine schedule.  Pertussis (whooping cough) used to kill thousands of infants.  In the 1930's a vaccine was developed by killing whole pertussis cells and injecting them into people.  It worked well, but because of toxins normally found in the bacteria that were not affected by the inactivation, a small number of people had significant side effects after vaccination.  This lead to the development of the modern day Pertussis vaccine, the acellular Pertussis vaccine (aP), which is found in the combination TDaP and DTaP vaccines.  This vaccine injects a small amount of the actual protein responsible for all the horrible symptoms of whooping cough, thereby programming your immune system to essentially convert Pertussis from whooping cough into an asymptomatic bacteria that can live in your respiratory tract.  Recent studies have shown that people (and monkeys) can transmit Pertussis, and might even be able to transmit it more easily than an unvaccinated person because they have no idea they are sick.  This is why the Pertussis vaccine schedule is so aggressive, particularly in infants.  They get shots at 2, 4, 6, 15 months, another one at age 4, and then intermittently from then on out and in pregnant women.  This aggressive schedule, combined with antibiotics, are the reasons whooping cough deaths have remained incredibly low.     

Edited September 10, 2021 by Dontshootrude

8 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I don't know what you're talking about.

Labor Day?

Kidding, I edited it after you pointed out I had the wrong holiday.

9 minutes ago, Dontshootrude said:

This is the subject of multiple studies right now.  Preliminary evidence out of the UK suggests that mixing and matching the different technologies (mRNA [Pfizer, Moderna], adenovirus vector [J&J, Astrazeneca], and subunit vaccines [Novavax]) might drive a better and longer lasting immune response compared to sticking with one company. 

In France, UK, Canada AZ + mRNA is common.  I think that some of that was driven by the AZ safety issues, so younger people got shifted over to an mRNA shot for the second in the series.  At least that was the case for my cousin over there. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Anastasis

9 minutes ago, Dontshootrude said:

which is found in the combination TDaP and DTaP vaccines.

 

6 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Kidding, I edited it after you pointed out I had the wrong holiday.

I conflate the two bookend BBQ holidays too.  It's cool.

Edited September 10, 2021 by dcbc

How long did it take most of y'all to get a text from the texas cares antibody study?

7 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

How long did it take most of y'all to get a text from the texas cares antibody study?

it can take a day or two. most hear the next day.

3 hours ago, BradInATX said:

 I feel like if anything everyone thinks they've had it when they haven't.

This.  

 

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

Please don't get a third shot (or second for J&J) without talking to your doctor first.

Relying on innerweb geniuses for medical advice is how we ended up with people eating horse paste. 

 

Looks like it is becoming a trend. We got our third (2 moderna) after having J&J as our first shot. 

I had my one year post vax appt. with the Moderna trial last Friday.  Mostly just did bloodwork.  They told me starting around Sept. 20th they will be calling us back in and start their booster trial to whomever wants it.   Double blind again, so half of us will get the booster and the other half placebo. I will partake.

My Texas Cares antibody result was 390 after 1 year.  43 year old male and no health issues. 

After reading a few articles based on what @Dontshootrude posted last week,  I don't feel as anxiuos about getting the booster on my own right away. 

Last Moderna shot on 3/12. Antibodies > 2500

Negative for previous infection

2 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

This.  

This was me.  Kids and I went to NOLA for Spring break 2020.   Right after Mardi gras and right before NOLA became one of the worst hot spots in the US.  On the fourth and last day I woke up feeling horrendous.  I didn't even know if I could travel.   The next week I got sick like I'd never been I had every symptom except a high fever and loss of taste.   Could not get a test.  I thought I might get a positive N but nope.  So either I had something else or I have no anti-bodies from 18 months ago.

Edited September 10, 2021 by midtown

Water is wet

 

18 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

 

If only he had said other things after that quote.  🙄  

Fauci needs to sit down and shut up, as he may be the worst communicator in the history of public service, but fuck Tom Elliott and anyone else simpleminded enough to spread or buy into this kind of bullshit. 

4 hours ago, Samson's Wig said:

If only he had said other things after that quote.  🙄  

Fauci needs to sit down and shut up, as he may be the worst communicator in the history of public service, but fuck Tom Elliott and anyone else simpleminded enough to spread or buy into this kind of bullshit. 

It’s Twitter. He posted the video, did you expect his tweet to include the entire transcript? I’m sure this Tom fella has an agenda, but I don’t necessarily think the previous infection = protection concept is “bullshit”.  Definitely needs to be looked into more. 

I agree with you on Fauci, the dude is way too high on the fumes of stardom. 

5 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

Water is wet
 

Yes, but this doesn't take into account how the unvaccinated are disproportionately poor/working class/retired-on-fixed-income white folks.  The vaccine is too costly and can sometimes require up to 1 hour of time in a given month to get both shots.  For shame that some of you don't appreciate the predicament of the willfully unvaccinated who are eligible for it with no immuno-issues.  For shame! 

29 minutes ago, 3adays said:

It’s Twitter. He posted the video, did you expect his tweet to include the entire transcript? I’m sure this Tom fella has an agenda, but I don’t necessarily think the previous infection = protection concept is “bullshit”.  Definitely needs to be looked into more. 

I agree with you on Fauci, the dude is way too high on the fumes of stardom. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Samson's Wig said:

If only he had said other things after that quote.  🙄  

Fauci needs to sit down and shut up, as he may be the worst communicator in the history of public service, but fuck Tom Elliott and anyone else simpleminded enough to spread or buy into this kind of bullshit. 

At the end of the clip Anderson Cooper pivots to a different topic, children’s vaccinations. Unless he circled back later, he didn’t expound on it.
 

The way Gupta said hey one last quick thing it makes me think it was more off the cuff and Fauci didn’t have a canned response ready, but he said what he said. 

It’s Twitter. He posted the video, did you expect his tweet to include the entire transcript? I’m sure this Tom fella has an agenda, but I don’t necessarily think the previous infection = protection concept is “bullshit”.  Definitely needs to be looked into more. 
I agree with you on Fauci, the dude is way too high on the fumes of stardom. 

I don’t get the thinking that a previous COVID infection is good enough in lieu of a vaccine. Personally, I could’ve had it a dozen times and I’m still getting vaccinated. Thinking it’s good enough is a textbook example of FAFO.

3 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

I don’t get the thinking that a previous COVID infection is good enough in lieu of a vaccine. Personally, I could’ve had it a dozen times and I’m still getting vaccinated. Thinking it’s good enough is a textbook example of FAFO.

Haven’t you seen the latest data out of Israel? Previous infection gives you much better protection against delta than vaccination. Like, 13 times less likely to test positive, and something like 27 times less likely to get symptoms (maybe I got the numbers wrong). A vaccine improves your protection (slightly) if you had previous infection, but it’s clear that previous infection gives you broader and longer lasting protection than a vaccine. It’s not even close.

The Mu variant appears to be a mix of earlier variants (early investigations - it is serious in Central America). Some cases have shown up in the United States. If you think you had it earlier, I would verify and talk to a real doctor (not a chiro, podiatrist, . . . ).

If it was me, I would wear a rubber, . . . err, I mean, . . . I would boost my protection with vaccine against that Frankensteinish variant.

And anyway, the jab has done a great job protecting from serious illness from COVID.  YMMV.

Edited September 11, 2021 by washparkhorn

12 hours ago, Dontshootrude said:

This is the subject of multiple studies right now.  Preliminary evidence out of the UK suggests that mixing and matching the different technologies (mRNA [Pfizer, Moderna], adenovirus vector [J&J, Astrazeneca], and subunit vaccines [Novavax]) might drive a better and longer lasting immune response compared to sticking with one company.  This makes a lot of sense because the different technologies are going to stimulate different cell signaling pathways.  For example, mRNA mechanisms are better at stimulating the B-cell driven antibody response whereas the adenovirus vector vaccines are going to do a better job at building cellular (T cell) immunity.  

It probably won't hurt you (we don't have large controlled trials to be sure), but I don't think you will really benefit much.    

Right, I'm not against boosters, but breakthrough cases are not the metric I'm looking at.  The outcome of those cases is the key metric.  As long as the vaccine is preventing severe disease (which it is) I don't see much reason to get a booster.  And as I've outlined in prior posts there might be advantages to waiting and see how more experiments and trials play out before deciding when to get boosted and which shot to take.  

There is precedent for using infection outcomes rather than infections themselves in our recommended vaccine schedule.  Pertussis (whooping cough) used to kill thousands of infants.  In the 1930's a vaccine was developed by killing whole pertussis cells and injecting them into people.  It worked well, but because of toxins normally found in the bacteria that were not affected by the inactivation, a small number of people had significant side effects after vaccination.  This lead to the development of the modern day Pertussis vaccine, the acellular Pertussis vaccine (aP), which is found in the combination TDaP and DTaP vaccines.  This vaccine injects a small amount of the actual protein responsible for all the horrible symptoms of whooping cough, thereby programming your immune system to essentially convert Pertussis from whooping cough into an asymptomatic bacteria that can live in your respiratory tract.  Recent studies have shown that people (and monkeys) can transmit Pertussis, and might even be able to transmit it more easily than an unvaccinated person because they have no idea they are sick.  This is why the Pertussis vaccine schedule is so aggressive, particularly in infants.  They get shots at 2, 4, 6, 15 months, another one at age 4, and then intermittently from then on out and in pregnant women.  This aggressive schedule, combined with antibiotics, are the reasons whooping cough deaths have remained incredibly low.     

So, rub some Tussin on it?

So I am to believe there is not one damn pediatrician within 100 miles of Austin who has access to pfizer vaccine, willing to tell the APA to piss off, and take my $500 cash for a age 5-11 vax? There are docs out there prescribing  bullshit ivermectin scripts, pain pill mills, and all manners of fraud. And not one doc is willing to give a shot that, apparently, has like zero risk?  

16 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

So, rub some Tussin on it?

Let that Tussin get on down to the bone. 

3 minutes ago, CleverNickname said:

So I am to believe there is not one damn pediatrician within 100 miles of Austin who has access to pfizer vaccine, willing to tell the APA to piss off, and take my $500 cash for a age 5-11 vax? There are docs out there prescribing  bullshit ivermectin scripts, pain pill mills, and all manners of fraud. And not one doc is willing to give a shot that, apparently, has like zero risk?  

Maybe I'm misreading your post but you want to stick your non at risk 5-11 year old?

Just now, maninblack said:

Maybe I'm misreading your post but you want to stick your non at risk 5-11 year old?

My 6&3 year old niece and nephew are pretty sick.  I would consider it if we had some data on the proper dose for kids, and we should absolutely have that data by now.

1 minute ago, conVINCEd said:

My 6&3 year old niece and nephew are pretty sick.  I would consider it if we had some data on the proper dose for kids, and we should absolutely have that data by now.

Seems crazy to me but not my kids

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

Seems crazy to me but not my kids

If we’re gonna send them to school with the kids of morons we should at least give them the tools to defend themselves.

12 minutes ago, CleverNickname said:

So I am to believe there is not one damn pediatrician within 100 miles of Austin who has access to pfizer vaccine, willing to tell the APA to piss off, and take my $500 cash for a age 5-11 vax? There are docs out there prescribing  bullshit ivermectin scripts, pain pill mills, and all manners of fraud. And not one doc is willing to give a shot that, apparently, has like zero risk?  

Not sure if serious but zero risk is false. There’s a couple recent studies/surveys that show risk of myocarditis in boys specifically is higher than risk of same kids getting hospitalized with Covid. 
 

As they say these are estimates, but there’s multiple coming in now at higher numbers so less likely that they’re that far off. Also add that the Uk did not approve vaccines in 12-15 year olds and it’s safe to say that the science is not settled on this. Certainly not zero risk, especially if you’re giving adult doses to small children. I’d love to see guidance adjusted to maybe one shot for young boys here. This is just common sense IMO. 

7 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

If we’re gonna send them to school with the kids of morons we should at least give them the tools to defend themselves.

That's a wild statement considering they're at virtually no risk. But we're living in the upside down so you do you. 

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

That's a wild statement considering they're at virtually no risk. But we're living in the upside down so you do you. 

Well, they’re both pretty sick with a positive test and the NICU hospital capacity is not good right now.  That qualifies as some risk to me.