COVID-19 vaccine discussion

Can you sum up? I don’t want to listen to a 30 minute podcast

Edited October 9, 2021 by Neonmoon

Didn't watch the podcast, but there are many doctors and researchers who are dumbasses. Type any of his points and I'll respond.

 

If this is about the spike protein being pathogenic and toxic, that simply isn't true. Only pathogens can be pathogenic and the spike protein is not a pathogen. The spike protein also isn't toxic per se. Like many foreign proteins, the spike protein is immunogenic meaning the human body mounts a response against it. This is good and what keeps our species viable. Sometimes the immune response to a protein can go haywire and cause issues but this is not the same as the protein itself doing harm. If the spike protein did cause harm it would be a local issue near the site of injection and the nearest lymph nodes. This is because vaccines mostly remain near the site of injection. Very few people have had localized reactions with the sort of necrosis that a toxic agent would be expected to create. Moreover, the spike protein only stays intact in the human body for a few weeks so whatever toxicity could exist would disappear after that time.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Bevo

46 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Can you sum up? I don’t want to listed to a 30 minute podcast

Its actually only 3 or 4 minutes long.

9 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Didn't watch the podcast, but there are many doctors and researchers who are dumbasses. Type any of his points and I'll respond.

 

If this is about the spike protein being pathogenic and toxic, that simply isn't true. Only pathogens can be pathogenic and the spike protein is not a pathogen. The spike protein also isn't toxic per se. Like many foreign proteins, the spike protein is immunogenic meaning the human body mounts a response against it. This is good and what keeps our species viable. Sometimes the immune response to a protein can go haywire and cause issues but this is not the same as the protein itself doing harm. If the spike protein did cause harm it would be a local issue near the site of injection and the nearest lymph nodes. This is because vaccines mostly remain near the site of injection. Very few people have had localized reactions with the sort of necrosis that a toxic agent would be expected to create. Moreover, the spike protein only stays intact in the human body for a few weeks so whatever toxicity could exist would disappear after that time.

He states there is peer reviewed evidence these spike proteins are not staying in the shoulder, and are entering the blood stream. 

He states these spike proteins can cross the blood brain barrier, and also concentrate in several different organs.

He also states these spike proteins cause blood clots, and other damage to the cardiovascular system.

Like I mentioned, it is a very short clip.  It would be great if you gave it a listen, and could refute his claims. 

 

23 minutes ago, Somnio said:

He states there is peer reviewed evidence these spike proteins are not staying in the shoulder, and are entering the blood stream. 

He states these spike proteins can cross the blood brain barrier, and also concentrate in several different organs.

He also states these spike proteins cause blood clots, and other damage to the cardiovascular system.

Like I mentioned, it is a very short clip.  It would be great if you gave it a listen, and could refute his claims. 

 

Is this what doing your own research means?

1 hour ago, Somnio said:

He states there is peer reviewed evidence these spike proteins are not staying in the shoulder, and are entering the blood stream. 

He states these spike proteins can cross the blood brain barrier, and also concentrate in several different organs.

He also states these spike proteins cause blood clots, and other damage to the cardiovascular system.

Like I mentioned, it is a very short clip.  It would be great if you gave it a listen, and could refute his claims. 

 

Why do I have to refute his claims? Isn’t that the job of the CDC?

2 hours ago, Somnio said:

He states there is peer reviewed evidence these spike proteins are not staying in the shoulder, and are entering the blood stream. 

He states these spike proteins can cross the blood brain barrier, and also concentrate in several different organs.

He also states these spike proteins cause blood clots, and other damage to the cardiovascular system.

Like I mentioned, it is a very short clip.  It would be great if you gave it a listen, and could refute his claims. 

 

Oh but okay, I will 

https://apnews.com/article/377989296609

Quote

BY BEATRICE DUPUY

Jun 9, 2021

CLAIM: COVID-19 vaccines make people produce a spike protein that is a toxin and can spread to other parts of the body and damage organs.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. COVID-19 vaccines instruct the body to produce spike proteins that teach the immune system to combat the spikes on the coronavirus, and experts say these proteins are not toxic.

THE FACTS: A recent radio interview with an Ontario professor is being shared widely online to mislead social media users about COVID-19 vaccines. 

In an episode that aired in May, Canadian radio host Alex Pierson interviewed Dr. Byram Bridle, an associate professor in viral immunology at the University of Guelph’s Ontario Veterinary College, about whether the vaccine was safe for children. 

On the show, Bridle says that he is pro-vaccine, but goes on to discuss a fringe theory that the spike protein that the body produces from the vaccine is toxic and can damage certain organs. 

“We made a big mistake. We didn’t realize it until now, we thought the spike protein was a great target antigen. We never knew the spike protein itself was a toxin and was a pathogenic protein so by vaccinating people we are inadvertently inoculating them with a toxin,” he says. 

Though Bridle used the term “we” there is no indication that he was involved in any way in developing COVID-19 vaccines. Other scientists refute Bridle’s characterization of the spike protein.

“The spike protein is immunogenic, meaning it causes an immune response, but it is not a toxin,” said William Matchett, a vaccine researcher at the University of Minnesota Medical School.

All the vaccines that received emergency use authorization in the U.S. do not contain actual spike protein from COVID-19 or the live COVID-19 virus. The spike proteins that coat the coronavirus allow the virus to easily infect the human cell and replicate. However, the vaccine works by teaching the immune system to fight off the spike protein in the body and get rid of it. 

Dr. Dan Kaul, an infectious disease expert at the University of Michigan, said that the vaccines have been proven safe and effective through clinical trials and the millions of people who have so far received the vaccines in the U.S.

“In terms of the spike protein itself being pathogenic in some way that’s just simply not true,” he said in response to Bridle’s claims. 

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines rely on messenger RNA, often referred to as mRNA, that delivers a set of instructions to create that spike protein so your body can learn to identify and fight off the virus. The Johnson & Johnson is a vaccine that carries its genetic instructions for the spike protein through a modified adenovirus. 

Posts online shared quotes of Bridle’s interview to further push the false narrative that  COVID-19 vaccines are dangerous and attack the body. 

In the interview, Bridle says that the spike proteins generated by the vaccines don’t stay in the shoulder muscle, but spread and are “causing so much damage in other parts of the bodies of the vaccinated.” But Dr. Adam Ratner, a pediatric infectious disease specialist at NYU Langone Health, said that vaccines are mostly concentrated at the site of injection or the local lymph nodes. 

“What was said in the radio show was completely inaccurate,” Ratner said. “There is no spike protein in the vaccines first of all. The amounts that are made after the mRNA is injected are very small and it almost exclusively stays locally. It is nowhere near the amount he was talking about.”

In the radio interview, Bridle mentions a study of 13 health care workers that he said confirmed that the spike in protein was found in their blood. But experts say they found nothing of concern from that same study, which was conducted by researchers at Brigham and Women’s Hospital and appeared in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases in May.

Bridle left out key details of the study, which relied on an ultrasensitive detection tool, said Matchett, of University of Minnesota.  

“The spike became undetectable by 14 days after the first dose of the vaccine,” Matchett said of the study. “After the second dose, they could not detect the spike protein in the blood of any of the participants because the participants had all generated anti-spike antibodies.”

Bridle also mentioned a Japanese study to support his claims about the spike protein. But the study, which is written in Japanese, does not look at spike proteins from the vaccine, Matchett said.

Bridle did not respond to requests for comment from The Associated Press. An auto-reply email from his account said that a more comprehensive report on his comments would soon be published. 

“My answer to the question posed by the host was objective and founded on multiple reliable scientific sources,” he said in the auto-reply. 

___

This is part of The Associated Press’ ongoing effort to fact-check misinformation that is shared widely online, including work with Facebook to identify and reduce the circulation of false stories on the platform.

All this anti-vaccine shit is easily refutable. Just Google this shit. But fuck you and fuck you for continuing to spread it. People are dying because pieces of shit like you post this nonsense all over social media and forums this like. 

Fuck you.  This is supposedly a covid-19 discussion thread.  If you don't like to discuss the topic gtfo.

2 hours ago, Somnio said:

He states there is peer reviewed evidence these spike proteins are not staying in the shoulder, and are entering the blood stream. 

He states these spike proteins can cross the blood brain barrier, and also concentrate in several different organs.

He also states these spike proteins cause blood clots, and other damage to the cardiovascular system.

Like I mentioned, it is a very short clip.  It would be great if you gave it a listen, and could refute his claims. 

 

Why the fuck would you want the spike proteins to stay in the “shoulder”? They have to be exposed to antigen presenting cells so your body can make some fucking antibodies. That guy is a moron

 

Edit: also, the vaccine doesn’t cause cells in your shoulder to produce the spike proteins. I really doubt that guy is a physician. If he is, he slept through cell biology and immunology

Edited October 9, 2021 by Sawbonz

6 minutes ago, Somnio said:

Fuck you.  This is supposedly a covid-19 discussion thread.  If you don't like to discuss the topic gtfo.

You are too stupid to discuss vaccines. That is why you posted easily searchable misinformation created by anti-vaxx morons and asked people to refute it. 

Just now, Neonmoon said:

You are too stupid to discuss vaccines. That is why you posted easily searchable misinformation created by anti-vaxx morons and asked people to refute it. 

You are a shitstain who has resorted to personal attacks.  I don't know what's wrong with you, but fuck off and go to hell.

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Why the fuck would you want the spike proteins to stay in the “shoulder”? They have to be exposed to antigen presenting cells so your body can make some fucking antibodies. That guy is a moron

 

Edit: also, the vaccine doesn’t cause cells in your shoulder to produce the spike proteins. I really doubt that guy is a physician. If he is, he slept through cell biology and immunology

The info presented by neomoon states it is supposed to stay at the injection site.

But Dr. Adam Ratner, a pediatric infectious disease specialist at NYU Langone Health, said that vaccines are mostly concentrated at the site of injection or the local lymph nodes. 

 

Also, does the mRNA shot not "teach" your body to fight covid-19 by having your body produce the spike protiens?

Also from info neomoon provided...

However, the vaccine works by teaching the immune system to fight off the spike protien

11 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Edit: also, the vaccine doesn’t cause cells in your shoulder to produce the spike proteins. I really doubt that guy is a physician. If he is, he slept through cell biology and immunology

 

Just now, Somnio said:

The info presented by neomoon states it is supposed to stay at the injection site.

But Dr. Adam Ratner, a pediatric infectious disease specialist at NYU Langone Health, said that vaccines are mostly concentrated at the site of injection or the local lymph nodes. 

 

 

Local lymph nodes yes. Intramuscular in the deltoid is ridiculous. And “local” lymph nodes for the shoulder would include axillary, supraclavicular and  infraclavicular, anterior and posterior cervical and even suboccipital on that side. And even if some of the spike proteins got into the blood, who gives a shit? There have been literally billions of doses given. If this was a problem we would know about it.

 

You have to be a fucking idiot to think that the medical community/scientific community would either want to or be able to hide any significant number of complications such as organ failure or brain injury or cardiovascular injury due to spike proteins. The only thing a scientist likes as much as discovering something new and great is showing that someone else’s new and great discovery is bullshit.  

4 minutes ago, Somnio said:

Also, does the mRNA shot not "teach" your body to fight covid-19 by having your body produce the spike protiens?

Also from info neomoon provided...

However, the vaccine works by teaching the immune system to fight off the spike protien

 

Of course it does. What is your point?

The tetanus vaccine “teaches” your body to fight tetanus toxin with a slightly modified tetanus toxin protein. Does this dumb fuck think there is a whole bunch of people with tetanus toxoid poisoning their organs?

All this anti-vaccine shit is easily refutable. Just Google this shit. But fuck you and fuck you for continuing to spread it. People are dying because pieces of shit like you post this nonsense all over social media and forums this like. 

Fuck you.  This is supposedly a covid-19 discussion thread.  If you don't like to discuss the topic gtfo.

Bad faith bullshit intended to promulgate/continue to spread misinformation that is LITERALLY KILLING PEOPLE shouldn’t get a pass. Anywhere. Ever. You got called on participating in a campaign of deadly misinformation. Boofuckinghoo. You deserve worse than getting pantsed on the internet. You should share the fate of those who are victims of the campaign you are part of. Maybe gasping for breath as a tube is shoved down your throat might convince you to quit the bullshit. Or maybe not. I’m out of shits to give about people like you.

yeah rather than cite an actual study or article from a legit source, post a video of some unknown dude designated a "dr." and put the onus on others to refute claims made. Disingenuous AF.

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

Bad faith bullshit intended to promulgate/continue to spread misinformation that is LITERALLY KILLING PEOPLE shouldn’t get a pass. Anywhere. Ever. You got called on participating in a campaign of deadly misinformation. Boofuckinghoo. You deserve worse than getting pantsed on the internet. You should share the fate of those who are victims of the campaign you are part of. Maybe gasping for breath as a tube is shoved down your throat might convince you to quit the bullshit. Or maybe not. I’m out of shits to give about people like you.

 

 

You're a fascist who wishes death and suffering upon people.  You're why genocide has happened throughout history.  I've seen your vile posts before.  You need help.  Seriously, I'll swallow my pride and pray for you. 

And I will exit this horrid thread of groupthink with these facts.  You all know the mortality rate is extremely low, miniscule actually if you're healthy and not 70 or above.  You all know the symptoms for the vast majority aren't particularly serious, pretty much like a bad case of the flu.  I can't quite understand what has happened to you all, but it really is bizarre.  May I suggest you stop putting your faith in man, institutions of man, and creations of man.  We are in a fallen world,  afterall.  God bless!

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Somnio

Eh, fuck your god.

You're a fascist who wishes death and suffering upon people.  You're why genocide has happened throughout history.  I've seen your vile posts before.  You need help.  Seriously, I'll swallow my pride and pray for you. 
And I will exit this horrid thread of groupthink with these facts.  You all know the mortality rate is extremely low, miniscule actually if you're healthy and not 70 or above.  You all know the symptoms for the vast majority aren't particularly serious, pretty much like a bad case of the flu.  I can't quite understand what has happened to you all, but it really is bizarre.  May I suggest you stop putting your faith in man, institutions of man, and creations of man.  We are in a fallen world,  afterall.  God bless!
 

This is exactly how I expected you to go out. I at least appreciate you finally revealing your true position. Now everyone can see you for what you are.

21 minutes ago, Somnio said:

You're a fascist who wishes death and suffering upon people.  You're why genocide has happened throughout history.  I've seen your vile posts before.  You need help.  Seriously, I'll swallow my pride and pray for you. 

And I will exit this horrid thread of groupthink with these facts.  You all know the mortality rate is extremely low, miniscule actually if you're healthy and not 70 or above.  You all know the symptoms for the vast majority aren't particularly serious, pretty much like a bad case of the flu.  I can't quite understand what has happened to you all, but it really is bizarre.  May I suggest you stop putting your faith in man, institutions of man, and creations of man.  We are in a fallen world,  afterall.  God bless!

 

I was trying to be nice but fuck you you piece of shit. One of my best friends from high school died at 49 from this virus. Yes he was unvaccinated from listening to bullshit like you are spewing. One of my wife’s best friends from high school lost her husband age 47. Unvaccinated. Completely preventable deaths. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Sawbonz

Somnio, if you post on this thread again or any anti-vax anywhere on this site you will be permanently banned. 

4 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Somnio, if you post on this thread again or any anti-vax anywhere on this site you will be permanently banned. 

Shocked he hasn’t been crowdsourced. 

13 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Somnio, if you post on this thread again or any anti-vax anywhere on this site you will be permanently banned. 

You'd be doing me a favor.  Thanks in advance.

45 minutes ago, Genco said:

Eh, fuck your god.

 

2 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

 

After today's game, I have my doubts.

4 minutes ago, Somnio said:

You'd be doing me a favor.  Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Somnio said:

You'd be doing me a favor.  Thanks in advance.

Seriously, dude, what do you get out of posting easily disproved anti-vax propaganda? What's in it for you?

Anti-vax trolls that want to play the God/Jesus card should remember that the wisdom from above is “first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.” If you’re claiming a position of faith and batting below the Mendoza line in checking those boxes, you might want to reflect on the source of your wisdom.

As for this Byram Bridle PHD, probably in elementary education or ministerial studies from Bob Jones U, his bullshit is debunked all over the internet.

 

Actually, he seems to be a veterinary cancer researcher.  He teaches and researches in the Veterinary College of Guelph U. https://ovc.uoguelph.ca/pathobiology/people/faculty/Byram-W-Bridle

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by TwiceHorn

Oh, I'll take a vet over an MD any day. They gotta be able to cure a lizard, a chicken, a pig, a frog all on the same day.

2 minutes ago, Mole said:

Oh, I'll take a vet over an MD any day. They gotta be able to cure a lizard, a chicken, a pig, a frog all on the same day.

What are you doing to all the poor animals?

3 hours ago, Mole said:

Oh, I'll take a vet over an MD any day. They gotta be able to cure a lizard, a chicken, a pig, a frog all on the same day.

First, the average entrance GPA is higher for Vet School than Med School in the US. From what I know about this (which is very little), there aren't many vet schools around the country so there aren't many spots for applicants. Second, he didn't go to Vet School as far as I know: He does research at a Vet School as an associate professor. In other words, he is a PhD not DVM.

11 hours ago, Somnio said:

You'd be doing me a favor.  Thanks in advance.

I don’t know why this gif has the wrong text but you get the idea. @blacklab to to the white courtesy phone. 

this thread took the ou game hard. 

On 10/8/2021 at 6:05 AM, Satoshi said:

Weekly Uk survey has some interesting data. Vaccine protects against severe illness as we know, but case rates are higher in vaccinated in most age cohorts. 
 

Source-https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-surveillance-reports

 

My theory:  People who are more cautious were both more likely to follow pre-vaccine precautions and more likely to get the vaccine.  They are also more likely to get tested now if they feel sick.

So more cautious folks didn't get as much disease pre-vaccine but they got out of the bunker post-vaccine and they're now getting breakthrough cases.  And they are more likely to go get a test if that happens.

The less cautious group had more natural immunity pre-vaccine from catching COVID and they are less likely to go get a test now, because that would admit that they were morons not to get the vaccine.  But eventually those that need hospitalization show up in the data.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Texas Jeff

35 minutes ago, Texas Jeff said:

My theory:  People who are more cautious were both more likely to follow pre-vaccine precautions and more likely to get the vaccine.  They are also more likely to get tested now if they feel sick.

So more cautious folks didn't get as much disease pre-vaccine but they got out of the bunker post-vaccine and they're now getting breakthrough cases.  And they are more likely to go get a test if that happens.

The less cautious group had more natural immunity pre-vaccine from catching COVID and they are less likely to go get a test now, because that would admit that they were morons not to get the vaccine.  But eventually those that need hospitalization show up in the data.

 

18 hours ago, Bevo said:

Didn't watch the podcast, but there are many doctors and researchers who are dumbasses. Type any of his points and I'll respond.

 

If this is about the spike protein being pathogenic and toxic, that simply isn't true. Only pathogens can be pathogenic and the spike protein is not a pathogen. The spike protein also isn't toxic per se. Like many foreign proteins, the spike protein is immunogenic meaning the human body mounts a response against it. This is good and what keeps our species viable. Sometimes the immune response to a protein can go haywire and cause issues but this is not the same as the protein itself doing harm. If the spike protein did cause harm it would be a local issue near the site of injection and the nearest lymph nodes. This is because vaccines mostly remain near the site of injection. Very few people have had localized reactions with the sort of necrosis that a toxic agent would be expected to create. Moreover, the spike protein only stays intact in the human body for a few weeks so whatever toxicity could exist would disappear after that time.

What is your medical background?

41 minutes ago, Caponata said:

What is your medical background?

Who the fuck are you?

A new troll has been born.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-technology-business-united-nations-europe-d4aff7ddb273194b312354a57c244ce6

Quote

ROME (AP) — Moderna has no plans to share the recipe for its COVID-19 vaccine because executives have concluded that scaling up the company’s own production is the best way to increase the global supply, the company’s chairman said Monday.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Noubar Afeyan also reiterated a pledge Moderna made a year ago not to enforce patent infringement on anyone else making a coronavirus vaccine during the pandemic.

“We didn’t have to do that,” Afeyan said. ”We think that was the right, responsible thing to do.” He added: “We want that to be helping the world.”

The United Nations health agency has pressed Moderna to share its vaccine formula. Afeyan said the company analyzed whether it would be better to share the messenger RNA technology and determined that it could expand production and deliver billions of additional doses in 2022.

“Within the next six to nine months, the most reliable way to make high-quality vaccines and in an efficient way is going to be if we make them,” Afeyan said. Asked about appeals from the World Health Organization and others, he contended that such pleas assumed ”that we couldn’t get enough capacity, but in fact we know we can.”

 

LMAO.

On 10/10/2021 at 10:20 AM, Caponata said:

What is your medical background?

Based on the food pic avatar I'm assuming this is the latest GRHorn sock.

On 10/10/2021 at 11:02 AM, Anastasis said:

Who the fuck are you?

He's someone who really, really likes like caponata.

I don’t remember ever seeing this info until today.

Just read that over 1/3 of COVID patients do not develop any antibodies.

So much for the natural immunity argument.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/09/05/36-of-those-who-had-covid-19-didnt-develop-antibodies-study-says/amp/

Reading that article…wait, people consider a hot dog to be a sandwich? Wtf? 

On 10/9/2021 at 8:05 PM, Somnio said:

You're a fascist who wishes death and suffering upon people.  You're why genocide has happened throughout history.  I've seen your vile posts before.  You need help.  Seriously, I'll swallow my pride and pray for you. 

And I will exit this horrid thread of groupthink with these facts.  You all know the mortality rate is extremely low, miniscule actually if you're healthy and not 70 or above.  You all know the symptoms for the vast majority aren't particularly serious, pretty much like a bad case of the flu.  I can't quite understand what has happened to you all, but it really is bizarre.  May I suggest you stop putting your faith in man, institutions of man, and creations of man.  We are in a fallen world,  afterall.  God bless!

 

Oh you're a religious nut.  Got it.   Poor, stupid sonofabitch.

43 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

I don’t remember ever seeing this info until today.

Just read that over 1/3 of COVID patients do not develop any antibodies.

So much for the natural immunity argument.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/09/05/36-of-those-who-had-covid-19-didnt-develop-antibodies-study-says/amp/

Super-small sample size.  Not that I discount that sort of result as a possibility, I'd just like to see a more rigorous study with a larger sample.

That said, the point remains, the best way to knock this fucker down is to saturate the population with vaccines that are proven to be safe and effective.  But we won't do that, because we're SO.  FUCKING.  STUPID.

Holy crap! This thread took a serious turn to stupid. Not sure if threat banning Somnio is needed. Assuming we are semi educated adults, I’m not worried about misinformation sticking on this website. The social media and family reunion conversations are where people are getting poisoned with disinformation and subsequently dying and spreading disease to others for misguided beliefs. Now that BS is spilling to flu vaccine hesitancy. Just great!

As for surly, we can point and laugh at the trolls. Just don’t feed them.

6 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

Holy crap! This thread took a serious turn to stupid. Not sure if threat banning Somnio is needed. Assuming we are semi educated adults, I’m not worried about misinformation sticking on this website. The social media and family reunion conversations are where people are getting poisoned with disinformation and subsequently dying and spreading disease to others for misguided beliefs. Now that BS is spilling to flu vaccine hesitancy. Just great!

As for surly, we can point and laugh at the trolls. Just don’t feed them.

You need to keep up -- it's spilling into ALL vaccines.  And not just hesitancy, but outright bans on ANYPLACE requiring them, with such bans having the force of law.  Good luck not having fucking polio make a comeback.

We have leadership that is making being anti-vax, ALL VAXES, a central tenet of their governing philosophy.  It's getting worse, across the board.  It's all falling apart.  The worst-case scenario happens to be matching up to reality rather perfectly. 

This stuff isn't stopping at vaccines.