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  • COVID-19 vaccine discussion

    Texas Jeff

    By Texas Jeff

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    I thought it might be helpful to have a separate topic related to the vaccine.  If this is too much duplication, mods please delete this thread.  I thought it would be good to talk about who can get the vaccine, where they can get it, what side effects people are seeing, and in general what is going on with distribution.

    The CDC has published vaccine distribution guidelines, and if you care, they are worth reading.  They are dividing the timeline into:

    • Phase 1 - Potentially limited supply of COVID-19 vaccine doses available
    • Phase 2 - Large number of vaccine doses available
    • Phase 3 - Sufficient supply of vaccine doses for entire population

    Who you are will determine if you are eligible for a vaccine in the various phases.

    Phase 1 is divided into a Phase 1a and a Phase 1b:

    • Phase 1a - Mostly healthcare workers
    • Phase 1b - Other essential workers, people with higher risks, people over 65

    If you are eligible to get the vaccine and they have in in stock and you want to get it, it is important to go get it.  Both of the first two vaccines can spoil, so if a dose is sitting there and you aren't there to get it, they might have to throw it away.

    Both vaccines require two shots.  It is important to go get that second shot.

    Who fits in phase 1b and who has to wait until phase 2 might be a sticking point.  The "people in higher risks" category includes a lot of folks, maybe more than you would think might be in that category.  Hopefully we can quickly get to phase 2 so that we don't spend too long arguing about who is or is not in Phase 1b.

    Anyway, I'm interested in everyone's experience with the vaccine and especially getting the word out for those that can go get it, so that every dose ends up in an arm rather than in the trash.

     

     

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    Neonmoon
    3 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

    I had the same question - seems counter-intuitive to keep taking the same thing over and over again unless there is something particular about the mRNA technology. I can't think of another vaccine where multiple regimen's / year are required. Part of it might be frankly that SCIENCE'S answer always has been:
     

      Hide contents

    915444702_morecowbell.jpeg.364edc1c0502942dde64299236496aec.jpeg

     

    Vaccinations requiring multiple doses is not new. Even multiple per year. Right now we just don’t have enough data for the virus and the long term vaccination efficacy. Will 4 doses be good forever? Will we need 5? Will it be 1 per year like the Flu? 

    image.jpeg.cec62d32e6f9a15df912b70459fc8521.jpeg

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    Harrison Bergeron

    Does anyone have a theory as to why mortality and cases are so relatively low in Africa? It seems counter-intuitive that Africa and its associated health care resources seem to have a much lower mortality rate than other parts of the world.

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    Dahobbs
    12 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

    Does anyone have a theory as to why mortality and cases are so relatively low in Africa? It seems counter-intuitive that Africa and its associated health care resources seem to have a much lower mortality rate than other parts of the world.

    The median age in Africa is 20 compared to 38 in the US, 42 in Europe, 48 in Japan, 32 in South America, 40 in Australia, 38 in China, and 28 in India. 

    Edited by Dahobbs
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    Dahobbs
    1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

    Coupled with poor case ascertainment and mortality reporting. 

    Yeah, I'm sure that is a factor as well. But really, you don't need to know much more than the age thing. It's a pretty dramatic difference compared to the rest of the world. 

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    Anastasis
    3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

    Yeah, I'm sure that is a factor as well. But really, you don't need to know much more than the age thing. It's a pretty dramatic difference compared to the rest of the world. 

    In terms of mortality, yes, age structure going to be the biggest factor.  Then maybe per capita high fructose corn syrup consumption. 

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    Anastasis
    1 minute ago, Homercles said:

    Get a booster.  

    steve-carell.gif

     

    And further, while the data point isn't explicit, if I had a 1xJNJ, I'd probably be looking to go 2x MRNA. But that's extrapolation. 

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    Dahobbs
    7 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

    Can someone translate? 

    Researchers made pseudo-viruses that essentially look like the various Covid variants. After a booster, the MRNA vaccines appear to work pretty well against a pseudo-virus that was given spike protein's like Omicron's . Not quite as good as they did against the original virus or the Delta variant, but still pretty good. J&J's adenovirus vaccine also improves its effectiveness against Omicron after a booster shot, but it is still significantly less effective than the MRNA vaccines. At least, that is what this early data suggests. Keep in mind, this wasn't studied in people, but in test tubes. 

    I thought this was interesting as well:

     

     

    Edited by Dahobbs
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    Hate
    33 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

    In terms of mortality, yes, age structure going to be the biggest factor.  Then maybe per capita high fructose corn syrup consumption. 

    ROpxcg.gif

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    Skipper

    So with the data coming in and common theme to be get a booster, do we have a sense how much of the benefit of the booster is the dose is just more recent?  In other words, has there been any data on, for example, people within 2 months of dose 2 compared to 2 months of Booster?  I'm guessing not yet but that data would be interesting.  Particularly consider I saw something last week that booster antibody levels also start to wane around month 3.

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    Sawbonz
    4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

    Coupled with poor case ascertainment and mortality reporting. 

    Also much lower percentage of fatasses probably plays a part. 
     

    And it may be worms
     

    Quote

    The modulation by helminths of the immune responses of their hosts has relevant clinical and epidemiological consequences: increased susceptibility to some infections, decreased frequency and intensity of allergic, autoimmune and inflammatory diseases, inadequate responses to vaccines and, as is possible in the case of SARS-CoV-2 infection, may inhibit the inflammatory processes that characterize infection by other microorganisms (17).

     

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    Harrison Bergeron
    4 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

    The median age in Africa is 20 compared to 38 in the US, 42 in Europe, 48 in Japan, 32 in South America, 40 in Australia, 38 in China, and 28 in India. 

    Not sure exactly how that would impact transmission rates. Is there some data that suggests age impacts transmissibility? I have not seen it but certainly does not mean it is not there. It just is an interesting phenomenon in a situation full of interesting phenomena. 

    Edited by Harrison Bergeron
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    Dahobbs
    2 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

    Not sure exactly how that would impact transmission rates. Is there some data that suggests age impacts transmissibility? I have not seen it but certainly does not mean it is not there.

    I was specifically answering your question pertaining to mortality. Age definitely impacts mortality. In fact, it is pretty much #1 on the list of things that impact mortality for this particular virus. To some extent I expect age does also impact transmissibility, but I think the bigger factor at play there is testing and reporting. And case reporting is double impacted since you're dealing with a younger population that will be much less likely to be symptomatic. Not only is reporting/testing limited generally, but the non-symptomatic or lightly symptomatic individuals are going to be less likely to even consider getting tested.  

    Honestly, you've been an active participant in this thread for a long time now. How on earth could you miss the connection between age and mortality in response to your original question? 

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    Anastasis
    42 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

    Also much lower percentage of fatasses probably plays a part. 
     

    And it may be worms
     

     

    Legit reason why stuff like ivermectin and HCQ could impact the mortality numbers in third world countries. 

    Edited by Anastasis
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    Harrison Bergeron

    I did not see this posted, but more good news on the treatment front: 

    • Pfizer's oral antiviral drug could help protect people at high risk of COVID-19 in trial, the company said.

    • It cut the risk of hospitalization by 89%, when it was given within three days of symptom onset, Pfizer said.

    • Antiviral drugs won't replace vaccines but could be a vital tool for people who don't respond to them.

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    Bevo
    1 hour ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

    I did not see this posted, but more good news on the treatment front: 

    • Pfizer's oral antiviral drug could help protect people at high risk of COVID-19 in trial, the company said.

    • It cut the risk of hospitalization by 89%, when it was given within three days of symptom onset, Pfizer said.

    • Antiviral drugs won't replace vaccines but could be a vital tool for people who don't respond to them.

    This drug was an obvious win when it was in clinical trials. I don't get the first point, though. Are they talking about taking it prophylactically which on its face seems dumb or are they talking about getting it within 3 days of symptoms? Because if they are talking about within 3 days of symptoms, it will help protect all people who get COVID - It may just be approved for high risk, but that won't be how it will be used.

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    Harrison Bergeron
    42 minutes ago, Bevo said:

    This drug was an obvious win when it was in clinical trials. I don't get the first point, though. Are they talking about taking it prophylactically which on its face seems dumb or are they talking about getting it within 3 days of symptoms? Because if they are talking about within 3 days of symptoms, it will help protect all people who get COVID - It may just be approved for high risk, but that won't be how it will be used.

    IIRC from the article I think it works within five days of known infection, so <nerdalert> I think technically as a "treatment" (post-diagnosis) vs. "prophylactically" (taken as a precaution. The good news is with this, the Merck drug, and the <triggerwarning> options we are developing a decent set of tools to reduce mortality.  

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    Dahobbs
    38 minutes ago, Bevo said:

    This drug was an obvious win when it was in clinical trials. I don't get the first point, though. Are they talking about taking it prophylactically which on its face seems dumb or are they talking about getting it within 3 days of symptoms? Because if they are talking about within 3 days of symptoms, it will help protect all people who get COVID - It may just be approved for high risk, but that won't be how it will be used.

    I assume they are talking about the latter. Presumably the language is worded that way because of how the study was conducted. 

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    Dahobbs
    3 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

    IIRC from the article I think it works within five days of known infection, so <nerdalert> I think technically as a "treatment" (post-diagnosis) vs. "prophylactically" (taken as a precaution. The good news is with this, the Merck drug, and the <triggerwarning> options we are developing a decent set of tools to reduce mortality.  

    None of your "<triggerwarning>" options are actually options, at least not for treating Covid-19. 

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    Guest Lobo

    Any pro tips for where my wife can get her 3rd here in Austin?  She's been waiting until holiday break so I can watch the kids if she feels ill for a day.  But we can't find anything Monday-Wednesday of next week (20th-22nd).  Plenty of options on Thursday and Friday but she doesn't wanna feel like crap on Christmas Eve.  Thanks.

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    Guest Lobo

    CVS, where we got our first two, are taking appointments only.  And the times of day aren't great.  She took my advice and made an appt. at UT Pubilc Health.  She was worried about being on campus with all the students/staff.  But I reminded her school ended yesterday.  So she got in for Monday.  Then taking the 6YO there (different building) on Tuesday afternoon.  So she'll be boosted and daughter will at least have one shot in her system when we go to my anti-vaxx cousin's for outside Christmas Eve on Friday. 

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    texasdago
    4 minutes ago, midtown said:

    Cant you just walk into about any drugstore?

    There was a big jump in demand here a couple of weeks ago... increase in cases may make it a bit tough.  I got mine at CVS.  Can't remember where my wife got hers but one of the usual suspects.

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    PenelopeWitherspoon

    I got my booster on Nov 22 (Pfizer) and I tested positive yesterday for COVID.  So far, it's just like a cold.  I'm sneezing, have some congestion, and a very mild cough.  I had a slight temp yesterday (99), but that is gone today.  

    Fun stuff.

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    crash_davis
    On 12/14/2021 at 8:51 AM, Harrison Bergeron said:

    Does anyone have a theory as to why mortality and cases are so relatively low in Africa? It seems counter-intuitive that Africa and its associated health care resources seem to have a much lower mortality rate than other parts of the world.

     

    On 12/14/2021 at 9:03 AM, Dahobbs said:

    The median age in Africa is 20 compared to 38 in the US, 42 in Europe, 48 in Japan, 32 in South America, 40 in Australia, 38 in China, and 28 in India. 

     

    On 12/14/2021 at 9:48 AM, Hate said:

    ROpxcg.gif

    i was going to say. african's are mostly skinny. US and many countries in Europe are fat as fuck. fat people die, mostly.

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    Deej
    4 hours ago, Lobo said:

    CVS, where we got our first two, are taking appointments only.  And the times of day aren't great.  She took my advice and made an appt. at UT Pubilc Health.  She was worried about being on campus with all the students/staff.  But I reminded her school ended yesterday.  So she got in for Monday.  Then taking the 6YO there (different building) on Tuesday afternoon.  So she'll be boosted and daughter will at least have one shot in her system when we go to my anti-vaxx cousin's for outside Christmas Eve on Friday. 

    HEB in Leander had same day appointment slots available a few days ago.

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    Guest Lobo

    Yeah, just want to publicly plug UT Public Health for alliterative purposes.  But if you, or someone you care about, needs a booster before Christmas/New Year's.  They are doing walk-ins at the 16th & Trinity building (not the actual hospital, so don't worry about mass exposure) on Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday of next week.  Just call 833.882.2737 (that's the real area code, free number) and it takes 45 seconds to give 'em your basic information.  You're in their system and when you arrive, you won't have to wait but more than 5 minutes.  If your parents or loved ones are over 80, they skip the line and go right in.  Easy parking, in and out.  They're open for shots those three days next week from 9-6.  Get it done before you gather.  Easy 

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    Mole

    It’s really that hard to schedule a booster in Austin? My local Walmart has open slots all day every day. The only catch is that we were the first shots of the day (at 4pm), so we had to wait 30 minutes for the vaccine to thaw out.

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    Guest Lobo

    Not that hard guys, it was more of a time of day/date during holiday break.  It's fine now, we got it scheduled.  Busy moms who also work and volunteer can't just run the risk that they walk-in and suddenly there's an hour wait.  Or they get bumped to a Thursday when they've got work and kids and volunteer shit and can't feel like crap.  She had a few windows to to work with and it's all good thanks to UT Public Health.  

    Also, anecdotal---but geography and people watching are about all there is to think of when scheduling boosters.  I got mine in Fort Worth after Thanksgiving.  Nurse said twice to me, "You're the only person on the books this whole weekend, wow."  Each time I got jabbed in Austin, I was one of probably 20 people in my time slot wandering around the store waiting for shot/under 15-minute observation.  That the pharmacies and clinics in my area are chalked full the week before Christmas is encouraging to me.  Rest of the state can go get fucked at this point.  

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    Tonesky

    Any thoughts on finagling a Pfizer booster does for a 14 year old who is more than 6 months post 2nd dose?  A month ago - pre-Omicron - a physician plugged into Texas Children's research told me that the thinking was that kids had better and longer lasting vaccine immunity.  He suggested watching the numbers when kids return to school in January - that if there is a spike in cases in area middle schools after winter break, that is the time to get my kids a booster (approved or not).  But, now Omicron and two weeks of super spreader events on the horizon.  The only contraindication seems to be the increased risk of endo/pericarditis, but there is also similar increased risk of that from Covid itself.  In the meantime, Israel has been aggressively giving booster shots to 12-15 year old kids for several months, with no reported material issues.... 

    Edited by Tonesky
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    statsman

    My understanding is that the Omicron is a lot more contagious (we’re going to get it), but not as potent. Kids have better immunity, anyway. Maybe you don’t need a booster?

    Unless he’s a fat kid. Fat people should all get shots, as many as they can.  

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    Redneck Mutha
    On 10/13/2021 at 5:43 PM, Redneck Mutha said:

    Thanks for posting.  I mentioned upthread that I got J&J back in early Mar, Texas CARES results in early Sep showed antibodies of only 40.  Talked to my doc, he advised starting over from scratch with Moderna.  Got my first Moderna, with some ass-kicking side effects, in mid-Sep.  Second Moderna scheduled next week.

    The results from that study make me feel much better about my situation. 

    J&J early Mar

    1st CARES early Sep (# was about 40)

    Moderna #1 mid Sep

    Moderna #2 mid Oct

    2nd CARES last week negative for N (# was 0.0), positive for S (# was >2500)

    #AGTG #soblessed #readyforknoblickin #thatswhatshesaid

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    rpspeed

    Had two Pfizer in January, booster in August. First cares came back >2500, 2nd came back >2500 but also apparently had a completely asymptomatic case of Covid in between as it came back at 2.8. Does the 2500 refer to both natural and vaccine induced antibodies or just vaccine?  Wife had 2488 on her first cares and a 271 on her 2nd. No covid detected.

    Edited by rpspeed
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