COVID-19 vaccine discussion

On 7/19/2024 at 5:03 PM, Newdoc said:

Nothing is all that great for cough but dextromethorphan, with responsible use, in liquid form is likely just as good for cough but without that pesky significant addiction potential and central respiratory depression. 

This strain of Covid, FLiRT, is pretty contagious but like the other Omicron strains, still does not appear to have a good affinity for deep lung mucosa. But it does like the gut so congratulations to those who feel like they have the flu and are also crapping their pants. I probably missed a few Covid cases earlier in June because some people with Covid were presenting only with GI symptoms and we were coming off a wave of Norovirus. 

With the vast majority of people doing well with this strain (although feeling like crap) I'm thinking the old way of finding every damn case of Covid likely needs to go to the wayside. We are spending a crap ton of resources finding and treating cases that don't need to be treated or seen officially in a clinic. This will be controversial, but Paxlovid for those with low risk factors and some type of previous immunity is a $500 way to feel better a couple of days faster than you would otherwise. If you are not at high risk, it's not keeping you out of the hospital. You're going to get better anyway. Some absolutely need the medication, but the data shows those with prior immunity and even moderate risk factors do not significantly benefit from Paxlovid. 

say what? Costs $25 with insurance, brother. I tell people it's like Tamiflu but for Covid.

Edited July 24 by Vegas64

6 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

say what? Costs $25 with insurance, brother. I tell people it's like Tamiflu but for Covid.

Government paid $5 billion. List is like $1300. There is no compelling data demonstrating its efficacy in current setting. 

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Government paid $5 billion. List is like $1300. There is no compelling data demonstrating its efficacy in current setting. 

Alright, well more $25 Paxlovid for me and my family then (but it was surprising to hear that the pharmacies around me were low/out of it).

It's a mystery why insurance premiums go up. 

It was a 3 day head cold for me this time. My wife is on day 5 of feeling absolutely terrible. Constant headache, sinus pain, loss of taste…. No fun. 

17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It's a mystery why insurance premiums go up. 

Because our healthcare system is plagued with middlemen and shareholders that are eager to add fees and take percentages?

Just got over this round. This was by far the worst one since I had OG Covid in June 2020. 
No fever but three solid days of aches/pains and super runny nose/sinus stuff. 
 

Sucked. Just in total brain fog for 4 days. 
 

This makes four times now I have had this (joys of lots of business travel) and this one was rough. 

At the AAJ convention I just got back from, I was happy to see an old friend from 20 years back on Friday.  We (four of us) hung out and had some drinks and she insisted she take us to dinner Saturday night.   Saturday afternoon she cancelled dinner, saying she was feeling unwell. 

The next day she still felt sick, and stayed in her hotel room all day Sunday.  As sick as she was feeling, she left and flew home Monday wearing a mask. 

She texted us Tuesday that she tested positive for Covid.   I guess I’ll see in the next couple of days if sitting next to her for two hours after the obligatory hugs and cheek kiss was a bad idea. 

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Because our healthcare system is plagued with middlemen and shareholders that are eager to add fees and take percentages?

In part to an extent, but probably not for the reasons you think. More substantial direct impacts from rise of extremely high cost biologicals and other novel therapeutics, including $1300 antivirals that don't really do anything for most people but cost a shitload of money despite the fact that they have been subsidized by the US taxpayer. But if its COVID, Paxlovid!

furk, another trip to the ER... panic attack. 9 nights out of 13 with less than 6 hours of sleep, 2 nights with less than 2. this post-covid symptom thing is bullshit.  BUT... that was two nights ago, the ER gave me prednisone and so now I have prednisone and the asthma inhaler. slept like shit two nights ago, prednisone takes some time. feel asleep at 7am.

yesterday, did some research on "cytokine storm" which even if I have it's mild. but i'm day 14 now and without the sleep, panic attacks and shortness of breath I don't give a fuck nothing mild about it to me. so I went to the store and loaded up on anti-inflammatory and low histamine foods only. after that, I sat out side and pondered my situation and started dreading the night. so I went to the doctor and got a low dose xanax script. never had one.

prednisone finally hit early evening, I took a .5mg xanax and then laid on a blanket in the grass and dosed off looking at the trees and the sky.  got up, went to bed and slept for 12 hours. that should help my immune system heal. sleep, what a novel concept.

I've got about a week of this protocol maybe 6 days. hopefully that's enough to tamp down the hornets nest my immune system has become.

my best friend has long covid but is getting well. she had covid early and had long covid symptoms but no one knew what to do, she got in a long covid clinic a year later with a pulmonologist who is probably one of the experts, she said that's the protocol - steriods to tamp down the inflammation, inhaler as well, extreme anti-inflammatory, low histamine diet, and low fodmaps diet, and then handle anxiety/sleep.

her long covid clinic lead doctor has testified before congressional committees, and is fairly politically active on the topic trying to get the protocols out there. they now know what to do, but standard of care isn't even. her position is this shit needs to be in every doctor's office and hospital in the US. 

two phases, get to covid negative, not a lot you can do there, paxlovid does help but get to negative, then phase two, calm and rehabilitate your immune system. the virus is gone but your immune system is an angry hornets nest stinging everything in sight. for some it's really, bad for others like me it's just shortness of breath, sleepless nights and panic attacks.

took 2 ER visits and 2 doctor visits to get there, but I feel 100% better. now I'm drugged up and need to get off these steroids but for now let the post-covid healing begin.

 

 

Edited July 24 by troph

btw I share because the common message is stay home and tough it out. yes do that *if* it works. if it doesn't there is a protocol and it helps. you don't have to live with shortness of breath for a month.

Edited July 24 by troph

3 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

say what? Costs $25 with insurance, brother. I tell people it's like Tamiflu but for Covid.

So the cost is hidden to you. You, and whatever pool your included in,is paying the other $400+ of the cost past your copay in your ever increasing premiums. Welcome to American healthcare.

4 hours ago, Newdoc said:

pool your

You’re 

BIL came and stayed with us during the hurricane, it was nice of him to bring Covid along with him. 2nd time I’ve had it and this one was rough compared to the first time. I don’t think I’ve ever had a fever for 4 days in my entire life, it was the strangest feeling. 

it's everywhere, and on every plane and in every airport. travelers beware, hosts receiving travelers beware.

John had co-morbidities 

Well Doc said, he's been swallowing a lot of aggression lately.  Along with a lotta pizza.

Uh, he suggested taking one these uh, aggression training courses. You know these aggression training courses like EST

And ya need some physical activity.

 

Hes a lean, mean, fighting machine.

Is it fair that you were born like this?!!

I’m officially well, off prednisone, the inhaler and I dropped Xanax for gummies and dropped those too. No alcohol, no other substance, sleeping well and post-Covid symptom free. Damn that was a terrible nightmare. 

Edited August 1 by troph

Ended up with a flare up post prednisone so back on a dose pack of methylprednisone and it’s working. 4 full weeks today. 

tapered dosage ends in two days I’ll give breathing without meds another whirl. No panic attacks in a while, not using Xanax instead using Benadryl for a drowsy induced sleep aid plus antihistamine is certainly not inhibiting recovery. I’m also on two separate inhalers one a steroid twice a day the other albuterol as needed for sudden issues (infrequent). I’ve started exercising again which highlighted some diminished lung capacity, but it does seem to be getting better slowly as my bike ride yesterday evening was moderate level and productive. key is what’s it going to be like early next week. Pulmonologist today I suspect a nothing burger but I had to make the appointment weeks ago in case I needed it. Getting better but damn, starting my 5th week. Fingers crossed. 
 

in other news pure anti inflammatory and low histamine diet is a great way to eat a lot, lose 15 pounds in 1 month and improve health scores across every metric. I feel amazing otherwise and am now settling into a path for the last 10 of a 25 pound weight lose plan that arguably isn’t based on a “diet” per se but eating how humans should. It’s been really great. 

Edited August 8 by troph

3 hours ago, troph said:

Ended up with a flare up post prednisone so back on a dose pack of methylprednisone and it’s working. 4 full weeks today. 

tapered dosage ends in two days I’ll give breathing without meds another whirl. No panic attacks in a while, not using Xanax instead using Benadryl for a drowsy induced sleep aid plus antihistamine is certainly not inhibiting recovery. I’m also on two separate inhalers one a steroid twice a day the other albuterol as needed for sudden issues (infrequent). I’ve started exercising again which highlighted some diminished lung capacity, but it does seem to be getting better slowly as my bike ride yesterday evening was moderate level and productive. key is what’s it going to be like early next week. Pulmonologist today I suspect a nothing burger but I had to make the appointment weeks ago in case I needed it. Getting better but damn, starting my 5th week. Fingers crossed. 
 

in other news pure anti inflammatory and low histamine diet is a great way to eat a lot, lose 15 pounds in 1 month and improve health scores across every metric. I feel amazing otherwise and am now settling into a path for the last 10 of a 25 pound weight lose plan that arguably isn’t based on a “diet” per se but eating how humans should. It’s been really great. 

I had a long covid issue with lungs and had to go to pulmonologist. The PFT's they put you through in the glass box are no joke.

Anyways, reading your lack of sleep and how it screws up the mind made me think, and draw a direct line, to the Derka post about the mental hospital and how his issues were exacerbated with a lack of sleep. God bless.

On 7/24/2024 at 8:52 AM, Captainant said:

Because our healthcare system is plagued with middlemen and shareholders that are eager to add fees and take percentages?

Yep.

2023 Full Year Profit
United Healthcare $23 billion plus $14.8 billion in share repurchases and dividends

CVS Aetna $8 billion plus $3 billion in dividends

Elevance (Anthem) $6 billion and also repurchased $2.7 billion worth of shares and had a $350 million dividend

Cigna $5 billion plus $2.3 billion share repurchase plus dividends

And on and on and on….

 

 

1 hour ago, Vegas64 said:

I had a long covid issue with lungs and had to go to pulmonologist. The PFT's they put you through in the glass box are no joke.

Anyways, reading your lack of sleep and how it screws up the mind made me think, and draw a direct line, to the Derka post about the mental hospital and how his issues were exacerbated with a lack of sleep. God bless.

This ^ SLEEP!  I always knew it was important but I just learned to live with insomnia since college (6 hours/night).  Never got on any Rx about it.  Once we had kids, I was so exhausted, I'd conk out anyways (7.5 hours/night).  But my brain adjusted and I was always cognitively with it after about 30 minutes of getting outta bed.  Then my 2 shots, and boosters, and one bout with Covid...my sleep was completely fucked up (never mind all of us were thrown off routine by lockdown as well).  Took me like two years to get back into a sleeping routine and not having horrible brain fog/disorientation/loss of time feeling.  

Now I've this rough lymphatic system infection that causes all kinds of issues including fluid retention and swelling from my legs up to my lungs.  Doing more Rx drugs in the last two months than I have in entire life combined.  And I cannot sleep for shit because of the pain.  So I find myself awake for 3-6 hours/night with no hope of sleep.  And I can't add sleeping pills to the mix.  I lose track of what day it is, what the kids have going on for summer activities, what I'm supposed to be doing for work stuff and pill taking, despite copious notes.  So specialist tells me given the swelling around my lungs and even heart with all this fluid not to get any respiratory illnesses.  Which will be tough because the kids like to bring shit home the first 60 days of school.  I ask, "I'm probably due for a Covid-19 booster.  This would seem like a good time to get one since that's as serious a respiratory issue as I can get."  She laughs at me, "No, a booster with your immunity system how it is would knock you down for a week."  So she tells me that yesterday.  What the fuck am I supposed to do with that information?  So I slept 4 hours last night in abject terror.  And I don't know if it's Friday.

Thank you @Vegas64

im sleeping well right now (on steroids which keeps the inflammation down) but for example last night I took Benadryl to insure I did. I’m getting better but I have serious trauma around that two weeks I didn’t sleep. Total mind fuck then and now. 

sleep is easily top three with what we eat and moving our bodies. We cannot escape the need for quality in all three areas, chronic lack of any will absolutely catch up with us.

with post Covid lack of sleep can halt recovery so it’s even more important. 

I’ll know more soon for now god bless steroids and sedatives or meds with sedative side effects. 

Edited August 8 by troph

11 minutes ago, troph said:

Thank you @Vegas64

im sleeping well right now (on steroids which keeps the inflammation down) but for example last night I took Benadryl to insure I did. I’m getting better but I have serious trauma around that two weeks I didn’t sleep. Total mind fuck then and now. 

sleep is easily top three with what we eat and moving our bodies. We cannot escape the need for quality in all three areas, chronic lack of any will absolutely catch up with us.

with post Covid lack of sleep can halt recovery so it’s even more important. 

I’ll know more soon for now god bless steroids and sedatives or meds with sedative side effects. 

I was reading that scientists still don't really know why we sleep, just that a lack of sleep will kill you.

I think the leading theory is that when we sleep our body goes into a sort of deep cleaning in our brains and GI (the guts are the second brain of the body) and we clear out toxins and build-up of bacteria, etc. and without sleep those toxins build up and kill us.

One of my worst nightmares is that weird disease where you can't stop laughing (or hiccuping) until you die. This one trumps that after reading about it recently: https://www.webmd.com/brain/what-is-fatal-familial-insomnia

Uh, maybe reading terrifying shit like that is part of the reason you don’t sleep well…smart guy

3 hours ago, royiv said:

Yep.

2023 Full Year Profit
United Healthcare $23 billion plus $14.8 billion in share repurchases and dividends

CVS Aetna $8 billion plus $3 billion in dividends

Elevance (Anthem) $6 billion and also repurchased $2.7 billion worth of shares and had a $350 million dividend

Cigna $5 billion plus $2.3 billion share repurchase plus dividends

And on and on and on….

 

 

Share repurchases and dividends are after tax so what's the point of adding those to the NP?

UH for example made 23 billion and spent 14.8 of the 23 billion on repurchases and dividends.  They did NOT make 23 plus 14.8

10 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Share repurchases and dividends are after tax so what's the point of adding those to the NP?

UH for example made 23 billion and spent 14.8 of the 23 billion on repurchases and dividends.  They did NOT make 23 plus 14.8

Profit =/= cash made.  Better metric to look at is FCF less dividends less share repurchases.

3 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

I was reading that scientists still don't really know why we sleep, just that a lack of sleep will kill you.

I think the leading theory is that when we sleep our body goes into a sort of deep cleaning in our brains and GI (the guts are the second brain of the body) and we clear out toxins and build-up of bacteria, etc. and without sleep those toxins build up and kill us.

One of my worst nightmares is that weird disease where you can't stop laughing (or hiccuping) until you die. This one trumps that after reading about it recently: https://www.webmd.com/brain/what-is-fatal-familial-insomnia

not reading until I'm out of the clear here... but pulmonologist was rad, wicked smart, scientist had a lot of good information and was unequivocal in her support and is switching me to a stronger and different dosage on my inhaler and is perfectly ok with another round of steroids if I need them. She expects this isn't long covid because I am responding to treatment well. that was a relief. She said, I had a notable case clearly, and that even if the symptoms are not severe the impact on my life has been and so treatment is important let's keep going. breathing test showed no lung damage at all. what I expected but it's nice that it's official. one more visit in a month. I am very hopeful I'm a week or two out from this being over.

again sharing so anyone with shortness of breath that is causing problems for them knows they don't have to suffer....

2 hours ago, pearlandhorn said:

Profit =/= cash made.  Better metric to look at is FCF less dividends less share repurchases.

Agreed in the sense that a company can certainly spend more cash in any one period than NP.  My example was a simplification.  Companies can lose money and still pay a dividend.

Adding buybacks and dividends to net profits is nonsensical.  Neither are deductible expenses so what point is the sum?

21 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Agreed in the sense that a company can certainly spend more cash in any one period than NP.  My example was a simplification.  Companies can lose money and still pay a dividend.

Adding buybacks and dividends to net profits is nonsensical.  Neither are deductible expenses so what point is the sum?

100%. 

21 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Agreed in the sense that a company can certainly spend more cash in any one period than NP.  My example was a simplification.  Companies can lose money and still pay a dividend.

Adding buybacks and dividends to net profits is nonsensical.  Neither are deductible expenses so what point is the sum?

The point is that money is being used to put money into the wallets of shareholders instead of reinvesting into the the health of citizens.

For consideration in this exchange. 

1 hour ago, royiv said:

The point is that money is being used to put money into the wallets of shareholders instead of reinvesting into the the health of citizens.

Then make that point without fabricating horse shit numbers.

Was starting to think I was gonna be the latest sufferer posting in this thread. Just got back from a long vacation on Tuesday, featuring several flights and train rides the last 2 weeks. Woke up fine yesterday and got a good workout in. On the way into work started dragging ass. Achy, fatigued, but pretty mild and powered through the day. Really started feeling puny on the drive home. Feverish, mild headache...etc.. Got home around 6:30, hopped on the upstairs couch and immediately passed the fuck out until about 10:30. Woke up drenched in sweat, chugged a bunch of water and then crawled into bed. Slept like a fucking rock the next 8 hours. Woke up around 6:30 this morning, very groggy, but otherwise fine. Still a little low energy this morning but all other symptoms have resided. 

Either I got lucky with mildest case of 'rona or it was something else entirely.

36 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

Was starting to think I was gonna be the latest sufferer posting in this thread. Just got back from a long vacation on Tuesday, featuring several flights and train rides the last 2 weeks. Woke up fine yesterday and got a good workout in. On the way into work started dragging ass. Achy, fatigued, but pretty mild and powered through the day. Really started feeling puny on the drive home. Feverish, mild headache...etc.. Got home around 6:30, hopped on the upstairs couch and immediately passed the fuck out until about 10:30. Woke up drenched in sweat, chugged a bunch of water and then crawled into bed. Slept like a fucking rock the next 8 hours. Woke up around 6:30 this morning, very groggy, but otherwise fine. Still a little low energy this morning but all other symptoms have resided. 

Either I got lucky with mildest case of 'rona or it was something else entirely.

Broke my COVID cherry after more than four years.  I got it last week after my wife returned with it from a business trip to DC, and she didn't become symptomatic until day 2 after being home.  Let's just say I was fully exposed on day 1 of her being back home.  I had pretty mild symptoms for 2-3 days and still have a periodic cough.  The low energy level was by far the worst symptom for me.  I never measured with a fever, but I sweated through my sheets like never before on night two.   

4 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

Broke my COVID cherry after more than four years.  I got it last week after my wife returned with it from a business trip to DC, and she didn't become symptomatic until day 2 after being home.  Let's just say I was fully exposed on day 1 of her being back home.  I had pretty mild symptoms for 2-3 days and still have a periodic cough.  The low energy level was by far the worst symptom for me.  I never measured with a fever, but I sweated through my sheets like never before on night two.   

The low energy was tough but the mental fog or "covid brain" was the worst for me.

Yippee. 

Sucks man. We don't have an emoji for that.

On 8/9/2024 at 10:49 AM, Guadaloopy said:

Let's just say I was fully exposed on day 1 of her being back home.

Braggart

On 8/11/2024 at 8:30 PM, Deej said:

Yippee. 

 

 

Best two day stretch of breathing freely and clearly since I got it. 5 weeks to the day. I crashed today almost like a post adrenaline rush let down. My intuition makes me think the system stress is subsiding. I’m still diminished capacity of some kind I can’t go as hard on the tennis court as I’m used to and I’m nearly 20 pounds lighter too! Weaning off 3 round of steroids going into the weekend (3 rounds with a total of about 18 total days on high doses of prednisone for 6 days (60mg then 40mg) then mid to low doses for the rest (30mg trailing off to 5mg). I upgraded my inhaler and I think that was a big deal, hydroxyzine for sleep and anxiety instead of Xanax. Last night was the first night since I got the Xanax script weeks ago that I haven’t taken anything to aid my sleep (all separately but Benadryl, Xanax, gummies, cbd oil, and hydroxyzine). Sunday and Monday night are the key nights (night one and two fully off steroids). So we will see if I have a resurgence of symptoms. But for now I’m enjoying every deep breath like it’s not a guaranteed thing and it’s an amazing paradigm shift. So easy to take for granted. Given what I went through a few weeks ago all I can say is I now know what it means when people say “your health is everything.” I’m so grateful for clear lungs right now.

Edited August 16 by troph

Update from Pfizer on their flu/covid combo vax:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-provide-update-mrna-based-combination
 

Haven’t read it all yet but I think that not meeting primary end point for influenza B means they won’t try to market it. 

Yeah, that shit seems DOA. 

On 8/15/2024 at 8:37 PM, troph said:

but Benadryl, Xanax, gummies, cbd oil, and hydroxyzine

Update from Pfizer on their flu/covid combo vax:
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-provide-update-mrna-based-combination
 
Haven’t read it all yet but I think that not meeting primary end point for influenza B means they won’t try to market it. 

I’ll just keep getting two shots.