COVID-19 vaccine discussion

So, maybe this belongs in dumb question amnesty.  When it is said that the vaccine is 95% effective, does that mean it's 95% effective at generating the antibodies?  Or that, even if you have the antibodies, there's still a 5% chance you get it?

The reason I ask is because I've had my two Pfizer shots and took an antibody test that showed I have the antibodies.  I previously took this same test, pre-shots and after shot 1, and it showed no antibodies.  Others in my extended family did the same and have the same results.  Do I still have a 5% chance of getting it?

so this has probably been covered.. but I "qualified" for the vaccine through the Austin Public Health website, but when I click on "schedule an appointment" i get:

"We apologize, however there are no more appointments at this time."

So, is the next strategy, since i have qualified, to just continue to refresh ad naseum, revisting the page 4 or 5 times a day and hope to get lucky?

Correct. But only refresh ad nauseum on Tuesdays and Thursdays as that's when they release spots

20 minutes ago, shakahorn said:

So, maybe this belongs in dumb question amnesty.  When it is said that the vaccine is 95% effective, does that mean it's 95% effective at generating the antibodies?  Or that, even if you have the antibodies, there's still a 5% chance you get it?

The reason I ask is because I've had my two Pfizer shots and took an antibody test that showed I have the antibodies.  I previously took this same test, pre-shots and after shot 1, and it showed no antibodies.  Others in my extended family did the same and have the same results.  Do I still have a 5% chance of getting it?

probably but you have near zero chance of being hospitalized.

26 minutes ago, shakahorn said:

So, maybe this belongs in dumb question amnesty.  When it is said that the vaccine is 95% effective, does that mean it's 95% effective at generating the antibodies?  Or that, even if you have the antibodies, there's still a 5% chance you get it?

Sort of.  It means that 95% of people who g0t the vaccine in the trials developed anti-bodies.  5% did not.  

Edited February 3, 2021 by midtown

so this has probably been covered.. but I "qualified" for the vaccine through the Austin Public Health website, but when I click on "schedule an appointment" i get:
"We apologize, however there are no more appointments at this time."
So, is the next strategy, since i have qualified, to just continue to refresh ad naseum, revisting the page 4 or 5 times a day and hope to get lucky?

keep trying. early morning, late night, etc. also, try the Family Hospital System route and look up thread for other tips there.

DP

56 minutes ago, yoladu said:

so this has probably been covered.. but I "qualified" for the vaccine through the Austin Public Health website, but when I click on "schedule an appointment" i get:

"We apologize, however there are no more appointments at this time."

So, is the next strategy, since i have qualified, to just continue to refresh ad naseum, revisting the page 4 or 5 times a day and hope to get lucky?

 

48 minutes ago, smoky said:

Correct. But only refresh ad nauseum on Tuesdays and Thursdays as that's when they release spots

I wonder how many spots they've opened up.  I got a notice on Monday night, and then a separate email when they added some appts a few minutes later but they were all gone by time I got into the portal Tues morning.   Wonder how many people I am fighting with for those spots. 

Last I saw, FHS had 191,000 on their waiting list 

I mean, I've got a job that keeps me away from the computer and phone most of the day, and ain't nobody got time to hit refresh all day long or try to call a number 87,000 times.  Then again, I went through cancer treatment last year (beat the fuck out of it, this was round two for me, reprise of 2008 but with a different flavor, thank you very much) and I'll be gotdammed if I went through all that just to get Covid now.  So yeah, I'm jonesing for a vaccine and I'm legit 1B, so if anyone wants to PM any helpful shortcuts I'll be eternally grateful, cause I don't really have time right now to monitor this thread either.  All I can offer you in return is rep until we all get vaccinated and can mingle once again.  Then there could be booze & shit.  And yeah I'm a chick and yeah there's pics of me on here somewhere, no noods, my husband would cutya.   'Preciate y'all, even the assholes.  

Edited February 3, 2021 by M12BH

Question for anyone that had COVID in the past and afterwards taken the vaccine. Have have you reacted to it (in a good way) if you've been dealing with post COVID symptoms?

I recovered from COVID back in August, since then I've been dealing with constant fatigue no matter how much sleep or rest I took. I also had a bit of difficulty concentrating at times, probably because I was always tired. It started to affect my work.

I took the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine last Tuesday and I've noticed that I'm not as tired and worn down as I was before. I wonder if there is a connection and if other people dealt with post COVID symptoms that took the vaccine and noticed changes. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by FOXHOUND

3 hours ago, shakahorn said:

So, maybe this belongs in dumb question amnesty.  When it is said that the vaccine is 95% effective, does that mean it's 95% effective at generating the antibodies?  Or that, even if you have the antibodies, there's still a 5% chance you get it?

The reason I ask is because I've had my two Pfizer shots and took an antibody test that showed I have the antibodies.  I previously took this same test, pre-shots and after shot 1, and it showed no antibodies.  Others in my extended family did the same and have the same results.  Do I still have a 5% chance of getting it?

Essentially, it means that it's 95% effective at preventing symptomatic disease (at least in the PFE and MRNA studies, not sure the others). What specific kind of antibody test did you take?  There are antibody tests that test for nucleocapsid antibodies, and different tests that look for spike antibodies. With the former, you should not expect a positive antibody test if it is looking for nucleocapsid ABs. I think it was @Heme Doc that first brought this distinction out in discussions on this board, so maybe he can clarify if I am misstating. 

17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Essentially, it means that it's 95% effective at preventing symptomatic disease (at least in the PFE and MRNA studies, not sure the others). What specific kind of antibody test did you take?  There are antibody tests that test for nucleocapsid antibodies, and different tests that look for spike antibodies. With the former, you should not expect a positive antibody test if it is looking for nucleocapsid ABs. I think it was @Heme Doc that first brought this distinction out in discussions on this board, so maybe he can clarify if I am misstating. 

Thanks.

As I understand (or maybe that's a hopeful understanding).  It's 95% in preventing symptomatic disease, and even higher than that for preventing severe disease (hospitalization/death)....correct?

And as for the presence of antibodies, is our understanding that there are other infection-fighting goodies that are generated that may not be measured by the antibody tests?

20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And as for the presence of antibodies, is our understanding that there are other infection-fighting goodies that are generated that may not be measured by the antibody tests?

I read a tweet today that a company has developed a test to show if you've been vaccinated.   I assume as they issue vaccine passports you will need to get that test vs showing them some card that looks to be easily faked. 

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

As I understand (or maybe that's a hopeful understanding).  It's 95% in preventing symptomatic disease, and even higher than that for preventing severe disease (hospitalization/death)....correct?

 

That's what the data suggest.  With PFE and MRNA, the needle seems pegged already.  Where the distinction  between the different endpoints becomes more important imo is when looking at vaccines like Oxford or JNJ which may have less impressive vaccine efficacy wrt symptomatic disease, but the data suggest that they are ~100% effective at preventing severe disease, hospitalization, or death. And these effects appear to separate quickly after first dose. 

Here are some data from Astra Zeneca on first dose efficacy. Small event rates, so the estimates may be unstable, but this is generally aligned with the one dose JNJ data wrt hospitalizations. UK took a lot of flack for extending the dosing interval with the Oxford shot so that they could get more shots in arms, but it appears that it was the right move from the population health perspective.  

 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

The primary analysis of overall vaccine efficacy >14 days after the second dose including LD/SD and SD/SD groups, based on the prespecified criteria was 66.7% (57.4%,  74.0%). There were no hospitalisations in the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 group after the initial 21 day exclusion period, and 15 in the control group.Vaccine efficacy after a single standard dose of vaccine from day 22 to day 90 post vaccination was 76% (59%, 86%), and modelled analysis indicated that protection did not wane during this initial 3 month period.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Anastasis

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Thanks.

As I understand (or maybe that's a hopeful understanding).  It's 95% in preventing symptomatic disease, and even higher than that for preventing severe disease (hospitalization/death)....correct?

And as for the presence of antibodies, is our understanding that there are other infection-fighting goodies that are generated that may not be measured by the antibody tests?

That’s all correct

Based on 2 large trials, mRNA vaccines are both:

95% effective at keeping you from getting symptomatic COVID and pretty much 100% effective at keeping you from getting severe COVID, being hospitalized, or dying

The antibody test situation is evolving and I believe LabCorp is offering antibody tests and titers against Spike.  Plus vaccines do induce other vaccine fighting goodies like T cells which help protect you but are much harder to measure

 

My read on the various vaccine data and trials is that all these vaccines kick serious ass.  Do some kick a little more ass than others?  Perhaps.  But you’re probably splitting hairs and they’re all much more similar than different.  

59 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

I believe LabCorp is offering antibody tests and titers against Spike.

So for those people curious as to if they have anti-bodies you're saying Labcorp's anti-body test is the one you want?

LabCorp seems like a fake company name out of an 80s movie.

I asked a lab PhD at BSW about their antibody tests and he said they will be bringing on semi-quantitative spike protein Ab tests soon in addition to qualitative nucleocapsid tests currently in place  I'm curious as to the reason for the semiquantitative spike tests but haven't heard back so probably shouldn't speculate.  He also pointed out that the nucleocapsid Ab levels fall to undetectable after 9-12 weeks.  I've asked if spike Ab levels do the same, but haven't heard yet.

So there's a lot of potential subtlety in using these tests to prove either prior infection or immunity.

CPL here in Austin offers the spike protein antibody test as well. 

Test code 3609

https://www.cpllabs.com/test-directory/

It's the one I took back in Oct. after my second injection.

54 minutes ago, HookEm said:

LabCorp seems like a fake company name out of an 80s movie.

It’s a division of Initech.

This link is about to go live in Houston. Jump on it if you have someone who needs a shot in 1b.
(Deleted link because spots are full)

No surprise, APH revised their flowchart so that it looks exactly like the state of Texas' 1A and 1B.


Eliminates all the "community" chatter.

Regarding the olds .... yeah a lot of olds I know have found a shot and many of them have younger people advocating for them.  The ones I know are still connected to the younger generations.  Many aren't.

The reality is that only 25% of Texans over 80 have had a shot.  There are six DKRs of 80+ folks yet to have a shot, more than three million to go over 65.   About 50% of the vaccine is going to the senior population across the state and less than 50% in Travis County.   They are getting more than their share of the vaccine because of their age, but it's not over for them.

Everyone over 65 should have a chance to get a first shot by maybe mid-May.  At some point the state needs to focus on these hard to find elderly.  They can't compete with younger people for online appointments.  They may be shut-ins but they are all one fall away from being in a hospital.

21 minutes ago, smoky said:

No surprise, APH revised their flowchart so that it looks exactly like the state of Texas' 1A and 1B.

Eliminates all the "community" chatter.

They said they have 188k that are eligible now, but they have a "points" system based on criteria and they email only the people on the list that have points over a threshold.  In theory anyone could go claim an appointment if you are eligible but there is no way I have found to claim on if you are 1B and you have not received the "preferred" email.

They are not disclosing the algorithm that determines points and there is no way to find out how many points you have.

https://www.labcorp.com/tests/164090/sars-cov-2-semi-quantitative-total-antibody-spike
 

This is the test I’d want after vaccination to see my Spike antibody titers.  The problem is that we don’t yet know what titers correlate with protection...

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

It’s a division of Initech.

I think it’s actually Initrode

 

1 minute ago, Heme Doc said:

I think it’s actually Initrode

 

Samir and Michael have really taken them to unprecedented heights

Samir and Michael have really taken them to unprecedented heights

Pcr test load letter? What the fuck does that mean?

Probably discussed on a random page earlier, but is there an additive effect of taking more than one company’s vaccine if their designs and mechanisms of action are slightly different? Or what would happen if you took one Pfizer shot and one Moderna shot?

1 hour ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Probably discussed on a random page earlier, but is there an additive effect of taking more than one company’s vaccine if their designs and mechanisms of action are slightly different? Or what would happen if you took one Pfizer shot and one Moderna shot?

I assume that both Pfizer and Moderna use mRNA that code for the binding region of the spike protein. So, they both would elicit an antibody response against the binding region of the spike protein. So, in theory, the interchanging of the vaccines wouldn't matter, but I wouldn't fuck around and find out because there aren't any studies.

10 hours ago, Texas Jeff said:

They said they have 188k that are eligible now, but they have a "points" system based on criteria and they email only the people on the list that have points over a threshold.  In theory anyone could go claim an appointment if you are eligible but there is no way I have found to claim on if you are 1B and you have not received the "preferred" email.

They are not disclosing the algorithm that determines points and there is no way to find out how many points you have.

Reddit thread which includes the new flowchart, plus several commenters raking APH over the coals:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/lbwqb9/insurance_status_does_not_determine_eligibility/

12 hours ago, smoky said:

No surprise, APH revised their flowchart so that it looks exactly like the state of Texas' 1A and 1B.


Eliminates all the "community" chatter.

Revised their flowchart, and suddenly I get notice I'm eligible and can schedule an appointment, when and if they open up. 

Might be a silly question, but is there any harm in getting for instance the JnJ vaccine at one point then getting the moderna later on? 

I only ask because of probably take the first thing available, but would then like to get the more effective vaccine when the chance Arises.

6 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Might be a silly question, but is there any harm in getting for instance the JnJ vaccine at one point then getting the moderna later on? 

I posed this question earlier.   I hope they are already studying combining different vaccines perhaps out of necessity or out of getting even better results. 

7 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Might be a silly question, but is there any harm in getting for instance the JnJ vaccine at one point then getting the moderna later on? 

I only ask because of probably take the first thing available, but would then like to get the more effective vaccine when the chance Arises.

It's not a silly question at all.  There just aren't any data to inform the answer. The UK just started a trial of mixed regimen, oxford + pfe. The Russians have started a mixed trial with oxford + sputnik. I don't know of any mixed PFE + MRNA, but the CDC is allowing for mixed administration in extenuating circumstances.  

10 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Might be a silly question, but is there any harm in getting for instance the JnJ vaccine at one point then getting the moderna later on? 

I only ask because of probably take the first thing available, but would then like to get the more effective vaccine when the chance Arises.

 

1 minute ago, midtown said:

I posed this question earlier.   I hope they are already studying combining different vaccines perhaps out of necessity or out of getting even better results. 

https://apnews.com/article/technology-europe-coronavirus-pandemic-coronavirus-vaccine-2d5a2308329c277ada635ab3c75ba957

Quote

 

British scientists are starting a study Thursday to find out if it’s OK to mix and match COVID-19 vaccines.

The vaccines being rolled out now require two doses, and people are supposed to get two shots of the same kind, weeks apart.

Guidelines in Britain and the U.S. say the vaccines aren’t interchangeable, but can be mixed if the same kind isn’t available for the second dose or if it’s not known what was given for the first shot.

Participants in the government-funded study will get one shot of the AstraZeneca vaccine followed by a dose from Pfizer, or vice versa.

“This study will give us greater insight into how we can use vaccines to stay on top of this nasty disease,” said Jonathan Van Tam, the U.K.’s deputy chief medical officer.

 

 

I also wonder at how beneficial it would be to be vaccinated and then contract the virus.   You'd have a mild case but now you'd also have natural anti-bodies to add to your vaccine.  

40 minutes ago, midtown said:

I also wonder at how beneficial it would be to be vaccinated and then contract the virus.   You'd have a mild case but now you'd also have natural anti-bodies to add to your vaccine.  

One fact pattern I don't think I've seen any written work product on is my grandmothers.   Assisted Living Facility vaccination day = superspreader event (like 40 cases, don't even get me started) so she had COVID and spent almost 2 weeks in hospital.  She is out now and recovering.   Dr. at hospital discharge told her she should still get 2nd dose of vaccine.  I'm not sure exactly when that is scheduled (because she was in hospital at day 21) but it seems like it might be more beneficial to way 30-90 days vs. say getting it next week?  Has anyone seen any analysis of appropriate vaccination schedule for those infected with COVID between dose 1 and 2?

3 hours ago, zman13 said:

Reddit thread which includes the new flowchart, plus several commenters raking APH over the coals:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/lbwqb9/insurance_status_does_not_determine_eligibility/

no way...I'm shocked! Shocked I say!   Interesting comments on  APH calling their(communitycare/others) "list" to give them 2 hour heads up to the appt openings.

19 hours ago, midtown said:

I read a tweet today that a company has developed a test to show if you've been vaccinated.   I assume as they issue vaccine passports you will need to get that test vs showing them some card that looks to be easily faked. 

Dammit. There goes my plan for Black Market Vaccine Passports.

22 hours ago, FOXHOUND said:

Question for anyone that had COVID in the past and afterwards taken the vaccine. Have have you reacted to it (in a good way) if you've been dealing with post COVID symptoms?

I recovered from COVID back in August, since then I've been dealing with constant fatigue no matter how much sleep or rest I took. I also had a bit of difficulty concentrating at times, probably because I was always tired. It started to affect my work.

I took the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine last Tuesday and I've noticed that I'm not as tired and worn down as I was before. I wonder if there is a connection and if other people dealt with post COVID symptoms that took the vaccine and noticed changes. 

Earlier in this thread I asked about one of my elders who had a much worse reaction to Pfizer 1 than anyone else. He's the only one who we think had COVID.  The consensus was that, just like shot 2 tends to be more severe than shot 1 (if anything), it's more likely that you'll have a greater reaction to shot 1 if you've had it.

Now keep in mind that "greater reaction" is relative.  He had a bad day and a half and he's well over 70.  But nothing approaching needing to go to a hospital or even to a doctor.

1 hour ago, LurkingHorn said:

 

https://apnews.com/article/technology-europe-coronavirus-pandemic-coronavirus-vaccine-2d5a2308329c277ada635ab3c75ba957

 

There's some weirdness to that set of tests that I don't understand:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-vaccine-mi-idUSKBN2A400P

"The trial will not assess the overall efficacy of the shot combinations, but researchers will measure antibody and T-cell responses, as well as monitor for any unexpected side effects."

 

16 hours ago, Texas Jeff said:

They said they have 188k that are eligible now, but they have a "points" system based on criteria and they email only the people on the list that have points over a threshold.  In theory anyone could go claim an appointment if you are eligible but there is no way I have found to claim on if you are 1B and you have not received the "preferred" email.

They are not disclosing the algorithm that determines points and there is no way to find out how many points you have.

It's APH. The determining factors aren't that hard to figure out.  Here's a hint: look at any question on the registration that has the option "prefer not to answer".

I don't blame APH.  Their (unstated) mission is to help those who need it most: the uninsured, underrepresented, etc.  I think this is a good thing.  The fault lies with the state sending almost all of the vaccines to APH knowing that they don't have the capacity to handle it and that their guiding principles are going to run counter to running a vaccine program that should be for the benefit of the entire community.  

The best bet for someone who doesn't meet their criteria, at least until the state decides to send doses anywhere other than APH and a handful to UT, is to look outside of Austin. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Samson's Wig

2 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Earlier in this thread I asked about one of my elders who had a much worse reaction to Pfizer 1 than anyone else. He's the only one who we think had COVID.  The consensus was that, just like shot 2 tends to be more severe than shot 1 (if anything), it's more likely that you'll have a greater reaction to shot 1 if you've had it.

Now keep in mind that "greater reaction" is relative.  He had a bad day and a half and he's well over 70.  But nothing approaching needing to go to a hospital or even to a doctor.

My father (mid 70's) had COVID back in early December, and is getting his second dose of vaccine today.  He didn't have much reaction to the first, but his COVID symptoms were also relatively mild.  I'll be interested to see what he reports after this second round.

My maternal grandmother (mid 90's) also had COVID, was locked in a room with two other old COVID positive patients at the nursing home and basically left to die.  She was the only one who walked out of that room alive.  She never had a single symptom despite clear heavy exposure to the virus.  She also had no trouble with either dose of vaccine.  I think we'll eventually figure out that whether or not a particular gene or three is active will be responsible for who gets bad symptoms and who doesn't. 

 

3 hours ago, Skipper said:

One fact pattern I don't think I've seen any written work product on is my grandmothers.   Assisted Living Facility vaccination day = superspreader event (like 40 cases, don't even get me started) so she had COVID and spent almost 2 weeks in hospital.  She is out now and recovering.   Dr. at hospital discharge told her she should still get 2nd dose of vaccine.  I'm not sure exactly when that is scheduled (because she was in hospital at day 21) but it seems like it might be more beneficial to way 30-90 days vs. say getting it next week?  Has anyone seen any analysis of appropriate vaccination schedule for those infected with COVID between dose 1 and 2?

The doctor wouldn't know one way or the other. I would lean towards the doctor being right. As for time frame, again it would just be a guess. I personally think giving her a couple of weeks to recover from COVID would be appropriate.

I mean, I've got a job that keeps me away from the computer and phone most of the day, and ain't nobody got time to hit refresh all day long or try to call a number 87,000 times.  Then again, I went through cancer treatment last year (beat the fuck out of it, this was round two for me, reprise of 2008 but with a different flavor, thank you very much) and I'll be gotdammed if I went through all that just to get Covid now.  So yeah, I'm jonesing for a vaccine and I'm legit 1B, so if anyone wants to PM any helpful shortcuts I'll be eternally grateful, cause I don't really have time right now to monitor this thread either.  All I can offer you in return is rep until we all get vaccinated and can mingle once again.  Then there could be booze & shit.  And yeah I'm a chick and yeah there's pics of me on here somewhere, no noods, my husband would cutya.   'Preciate y'all, even the assholes.  

Very unlikely that someone sending you a PM is going to work. By the time spots open up, you don’t typically have more than 20-30 minutes max before they’re gone. You really need to find someone, give them your name, DOB, and maybe insurance info to hunt this shit down for you. If you don’t know anyone personally, I’d imagine there’s a market out there of people who have taken this on as a full time job. Since you’re not giving out any private identity info, I don’t think there’s any risk of using a stranger