COVID-19 vaccine discussion

3 minutes ago, Deej said:

It's talc. 

Chinese talc has arsenic it it.

1 minute ago, XYZ said:

Thanks. So the Pfizer/moderna vaccines and the J&J vaccine are actually pretty similar. They all accomplish the same: give the cells a recipe for making the spike protein which then migrate outside the cell, which trigger the production of antibodies against the spikes. So when the actual SARS-CoV-2 virus goes in, the antibodies “block” the spike protein and prevent the virus from entering cells.

Correct. There are also some vaccines in development which use a recombinant spike protein. In those vaccines, the protein is directly put into the body and then the body makes antibodies against it. The protein is probably stabilized so it stays in your system longer than the native spike protein and your body will make antibodies to it as long as it stays in your system. The length of time it stays in your body and the immunogenicity of the protein should directly correlate with the effectiveness of the vaccine.

Really like hearing about the CVS and HEB appointments opening up.  Gives me hope that we're gonna turn this shit around in time to get back to relative normal late Spring/early Summer.

^
Dude, where you live and work-mostly educated people there, right?.  Have you seen the polls about intent to take the vaccine when it's available to the rest of the masses?  The numbers are alarmingly low.  Much lower than even my worst fears.  As manufacturing increases across multiple companies and logistics are streamlined and improved by the Biden Administration, we could get to a pace in a few weeks that would have us "mostly open" by June/July.  However, I missed a meeting apparently, because there's now about 80 million Americans who'd rather sit at home with their dick in one hand and their KN95 mask in the other.  Because of these fucksticks growing in numbers as they keep believing each other's bullshit, we're now looking at September, at best.  It's just the way the math shakes out. 

It's 2021, I'm done with political divides, cultural divides, urban v. rural, college educated v. non-college educated, secular v. non-secular, etc.  All that shit that a handful of people insert as wedges to divide the other 330mm people in this country.  The predominant, overwhelming problem in this country that can account for everything shitty that's been on blast for the last 10+ years...is Stupidity.  Stupid people can be rich, they can be educated, and they're all over the socio-political spectrum.  And Stupidity has always been here but it was hidden, like cancer or homosexuality.  If you were stupid, odds are you probably knew it, you kept quiet about it, and you sure as shit didn't shout your thoughts on important matters from the rooftops.  But now the Stupid people not only don't think they're stupid anymore, they also think they should have significant input on the way things are done in this country including this vaccine.  Stupid People brought this virus to our shores, Stupid People let this virus rip through our country, Stupid People share in the blame for a half million Americans dead with their obtuse approach to mitigation, and Stupid People are gonna fuck up our herd immunity schedule because they forgot they're stupid, and forgot to keep their fucking mouths shut.  

And if you don't think that a huge chunk of folks that don't plan to take this vaccine are skipping it as one last Middle Finger to the rest of us because they didn't get their way earlier this year, you're stupid.  Taking their ball and going home, while the rest of us sit on our thumbs waiting to get above 65% threshold on herd immunity which is where we're gonna get stuck in a few months while the stupid people organize a parade. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Lobo

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

^
Dude, where you live and work-mostly educated people there, right?.  Have you seen the polls about intent to take the vaccine when it's available to the rest of the masses?  The numbers are alarmingly low.  Much lower than even my worst fears.  As manufacturing increases across multiple companies and logistics are streamlined and improved by the Biden Administration, we could get to a pace in a few weeks that would have us "mostly open" by June/July.  However, I missed a meeting apparently, because there's now about 80 million Americans who'd rather sit at home with their dick in one hand and their KN95 mask in the other.  Because of these fucksticks growing in numbers as they keep believing each other's bullshit, we're now looking at September, at best.  

are you saying people that believe in the virus and actually take precautions (masking, SD) but don't want to get a vax?  seems off

I thought just the don't tread on me patriots and jenny mccarthy types were not getting the vax + people who don't trust docs

19 minutes ago, Lobo said:

^
Dude, where you live and work-mostly educated people there, right?.  Have you seen the polls about intent to take the vaccine when it's available to the rest of the masses?  The numbers are alarmingly low.  Much lower than even my worst fears.  As manufacturing increases across multiple companies and logistics are streamlined and improved by the Biden Administration, we could get to a pace in a few weeks that would have us "mostly open" by June/July.  However, I missed a meeting apparently, because there's now about 80 million Americans who'd rather sit at home with their dick in one hand and their KN95 mask in the other.  Because of these fucksticks growing in numbers as they keep believing each other's bullshit, we're now looking at September, at best.  It's just the way the math shakes out. 

It's 2021, I'm done with political divides, cultural divides, urban v. rural, college educated v. non-college educated, secular v. non-secular, etc.  All that shit that a handful of people insert as wedges to divide the other 330mm people in this country.  The predominant, overwhelming problem in this country that can account for everything shitty that's been on blast for the last 10+ years...is Stupidity.  Stupid people can be rich, they can be educated, and they're all over the socio-political spectrum.  And Stupidity has always been here but it was hidden, like cancer or homosexuality.  If you were stupid, odds are you probably knew it, you kept quiet about it, and you sure as shit didn't shout your thoughts on important matters from the rooftops.  But now the Stupid people not only don't think they're stupid anymore, they also think they should have significant input on the way things are done in this country including this vaccine.  Stupid People brought this virus to our shores, Stupid People let this virus rip through our country, Stupid People share in the blame for a half million Americans dead with their obtuse approach to mitigation, and Stupid People are gonna fuck up our herd immunity schedule because they forgot they're stupid, and forgot to keep their fucking mouths shut.  

And if you don't think that a huge chunk of folks that don't plan to take this vaccine are skipping it as one last Middle Finger to the rest of us because they didn't get their way earlier this year, you're stupid.  Taking their ball and going home, while the rest of us sit on our thumbs waiting to get above 65% threshold on herd immunity which is where we're gonna get stuck in a few months while the stupid people organize a parade. 

Biden isn't doing anything different that wasn't already in the plan.   apparently you aren't done with political divides per your post.  Oh yeah it would have helped if stupid people of a certain ilk hadn't SERIOUSLY questioned the vaccine because it was being fast tracked by the people they like to call stupid.

Both administrations have made mistakes with Covid-19 and the vaccine.  Both administrations made tremendous progress with Covid-19 and the vaccine.  We'll probably uncover more pros and cons about the last team and this current team has many more mistakes and successes to go before we're out of this mess.  The one constant through all of it is stupid people not taking the vaccine for stupid reasons and stalling out our herd immunity trajectory.  

42 minutes ago, Lobo said:

^
Dude, where you live and work-mostly educated people there, right?.  Have you seen the polls about intent to take the vaccine when it's available to the rest of the masses?  The numbers are alarmingly low.  Much lower than even my worst fears.  As manufacturing increases across multiple companies and logistics are streamlined and improved by the Biden Administration, we could get to a pace in a few weeks that would have us "mostly open" by June/July.  However, I missed a meeting apparently, because there's now about 80 million Americans who'd rather sit at home with their dick in one hand and their KN95 mask in the other.  Because of these fucksticks growing in numbers as they keep believing each other's bullshit, we're now looking at September, at best.  It's just the way the math shakes out. 

It's 2021, I'm done with political divides, cultural divides, urban v. rural, college educated v. non-college educated, secular v. non-secular, etc.  All that shit that a handful of people insert as wedges to divide the other 330mm people in this country.  The predominant, overwhelming problem in this country that can account for everything shitty that's been on blast for the last 10+ years...is Stupidity.  Stupid people can be rich, they can be educated, and they're all over the socio-political spectrum.  And Stupidity has always been here but it was hidden, like cancer or homosexuality.  If you were stupid, odds are you probably knew it, you kept quiet about it, and you sure as shit didn't shout your thoughts on important matters from the rooftops.  But now the Stupid people not only don't think they're stupid anymore, they also think they should have significant input on the way things are done in this country including this vaccine.  Stupid People brought this virus to our shores, Stupid People let this virus rip through our country, Stupid People share in the blame for a half million Americans dead with their obtuse approach to mitigation, and Stupid People are gonna fuck up our herd immunity schedule because they forgot they're stupid, and forgot to keep their fucking mouths shut.  

And if you don't think that a huge chunk of folks that don't plan to take this vaccine are skipping it as one last Middle Finger to the rest of us because they didn't get their way earlier this year, you're stupid.  Taking their ball and going home, while the rest of us sit on our thumbs waiting to get above 65% threshold on herd immunity which is where we're gonna get stuck in a few months while the stupid people organize a parade. 

It's not stupidity per se, it's Empowered Stupidity.  

Thank you for naming the movement.  Now the real work can begin.  First thing I'm doing is using it as my band name.  After that, we make flags.  

6 hours ago, C-Man said:

As I mentioned had Pfizer #1 yesterday at around 11 AM. Felt fine but experienced very minor aches yesterday afternoon so I took some Tylenol and Advil. All good rest of the day. Started feeling iffy around 2 AM. By 5:30, I felt awful. Severe body aches and chills consistent with flu — and very similar to the worst I felt back when I had Covid last March. My wife brought me more Tylenol/Advil and I was able to get back to sleep. I seem to be better now but having a hard time getting out of bed.

My body does not appear to like this virus at all. Hoping #2 in three weeks isn’t as bad. Everybody else of our friends who took it yesterday are just fine. My shoulder is really sore.

I thought i'd read somewhere not to take pain relievers at the risk of dampening the effectiveness of the vaccine. 

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

^
Dude, where you live and work-mostly educated people there, right?.  Have you seen the polls about intent to take the vaccine when it's available to the rest of the masses?  The numbers are alarmingly low.  Much lower than even my worst fears.  As manufacturing increases across multiple companies and logistics are streamlined and improved by the Biden Administration, we could get to a pace in a few weeks that would have us "mostly open" by June/July.  However, I missed a meeting apparently, because there's now about 80 million Americans who'd rather sit at home with their dick in one hand and their KN95 mask in the other.  Because of these fucksticks growing in numbers as they keep believing each other's bullshit, we're now looking at September, at best.  It's just the way the math shakes out. 

It's 2021, I'm done with political divides, cultural divides, urban v. rural, college educated v. non-college educated, secular v. non-secular, etc.  All that shit that a handful of people insert as wedges to divide the other 330mm people in this country.  The predominant, overwhelming problem in this country that can account for everything shitty that's been on blast for the last 10+ years...is Stupidity.  Stupid people can be rich, they can be educated, and they're all over the socio-political spectrum.  And Stupidity has always been here but it was hidden, like cancer or homosexuality.  If you were stupid, odds are you probably knew it, you kept quiet about it, and you sure as shit didn't shout your thoughts on important matters from the rooftops.  But now the Stupid people not only don't think they're stupid anymore, they also think they should have significant input on the way things are done in this country including this vaccine.  Stupid People brought this virus to our shores, Stupid People let this virus rip through our country, Stupid People share in the blame for a half million Americans dead with their obtuse approach to mitigation, and Stupid People are gonna fuck up our herd immunity schedule because they forgot they're stupid, and forgot to keep their fucking mouths shut.  

And if you don't think that a huge chunk of folks that don't plan to take this vaccine are skipping it as one last Middle Finger to the rest of us because they didn't get their way earlier this year, you're stupid.  Taking their ball and going home, while the rest of us sit on our thumbs waiting to get above 65% threshold on herd immunity which is where we're gonna get stuck in a few months while the stupid people organize a parade. 

7 hours ago, NorthLoop said:

This is the same sister that was still spouting bullshit Covid vs Flu statistics AFTER our dad almost died from it. 

The Flu can be deadly.  Your Dad was lucky.   😁

26 minutes ago, Bottlecap said:

I thought i'd read somewhere not to take pain relievers at the risk of dampening the effectiveness of the vaccine. 

I just looked at the sheet they gave my wife when she got her shot this weekend and it says ibuprofen and acetaminophen are OK if your doctor approves. 

26 minutes ago, Bottlecap said:

I thought i'd read somewhere not to take pain relievers at the risk of dampening the effectiveness of the vaccine. 

I read they walked that back. 

34 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Thank you for naming the movement.  Now the real work can begin.  First thing I'm doing is using it as my band name.  After that, we make flags.  

When do we get hoodies?

9 hours ago, midtown said:

What I find so confusing is with this type of data continuing to emerge is why the talking heads continue to predict doom for years.  I get why the media does it but at some point someone has to start to talk about the good news and give pandemic fatigued people some hope.    I am pro rules, pro mask but to keep throwing out the "masks forever" is just dumb with this kind of data.   Either we believe in the science and the glory of these vaccines or we don't.  We are already fighting the anti-vax morons why give them more ammo?

Oh and FDA released JNJ results.   Solid. 

Totally agree.  The vaccines are awesome and there’s no benefit to keep acting like they’re not.  Paper from NEJM today shows Pfizer vaccine in Israel reduced asymptomatic infections by 90% one week and beyond 2nd dose.  Symptomatic infections at that point were basically nil.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101765?query=featured_home

Fuck the masks forever crowd.  Vaccines are coming for you.  

I want to take all the vaccines. Speaking of, why do I have to be older than 50 to get the pneumonia vaccine 

Good news is neither Pfizer nor Moderna required folks not to drink before or after vaccine.

Bourbon tonight! Celebrating shot #1!

but I like to smoke when I golf so....

Can confirm.

Let’s play soon.

Totally agree.  The vaccines are awesome and there’s no benefit to keep acting like they’re not.  Paper from NEJM today shows Pfizer vaccine in Israel reduced asymptomatic infections by 90% one week and beyond 2nd dose.  Symptomatic infections at that point were basically nil.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101765?query=featured_home
Fuck the masks forever crowd.  Vaccines are coming for you.  

Can we still make ugly people wear them?

H‑E‑B has shitloads of new appointments today

^
Dude, where you live and work-mostly educated people there, right?.  Have you seen the polls about intent to take the vaccine when it's available to the rest of the masses?  The numbers are alarmingly low.  Much lower than even my worst fears.  As manufacturing increases across multiple companies and logistics are streamlined and improved by the Biden Administration, we could get to a pace in a few weeks that would have us "mostly open" by June/July.  However, I missed a meeting apparently, because there's now about 80 million Americans who'd rather sit at home with their dick in one hand and their KN95 mask in the other.  Because of these fucksticks growing in numbers as they keep believing each other's bullshit, we're now looking at September, at best.  It's just the way the math shakes out. 
It's 2021, I'm done with political divides, cultural divides, urban v. rural, college educated v. non-college educated, secular v. non-secular, etc.  All that shit that a handful of people insert as wedges to divide the other 330mm people in this country.  The predominant, overwhelming problem in this country that can account for everything shitty that's been on blast for the last 10+ years...is Stupidity.  Stupid people can be rich, they can be educated, and they're all over the socio-political spectrum.  And Stupidity has always been here but it was hidden, like cancer or homosexuality.  If you were stupid, odds are you probably knew it, you kept quiet about it, and you sure as shit didn't shout your thoughts on important matters from the rooftops.  But now the Stupid people not only don't think they're stupid anymore, they also think they should have significant input on the way things are done in this country including this vaccine.  Stupid People brought this virus to our shores, Stupid People let this virus rip through our country, Stupid People share in the blame for a half million Americans dead with their obtuse approach to mitigation, and Stupid People are gonna fuck up our herd immunity schedule because they forgot they're stupid, and forgot to keep their fucking mouths shut.  
And if you don't think that a huge chunk of folks that don't plan to take this vaccine are skipping it as one last Middle Finger to the rest of us because they didn't get their way earlier this year, you're stupid.  Taking their ball and going home, while the rest of us sit on our thumbs waiting to get above 65% threshold on herd immunity which is where we're gonna get stuck in a few months while the stupid people organize a parade. 

The good thing is, in public polls, the unsure answer is trending down. Better messaging would help a lot there. The absolutely not types are pretty level, and it’s largely - though absolutely worth noting not completely - along political partisan lines.

Like pretty much everything in this country, once that partisan line is drawn, there just isn’t going to be much you can do to move people off of it. So it goes.

Shots. In. Arms.

 

12 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Like pretty much everything in this country, once that partisan line is drawn, there just isn’t going to be much you can do to move people off of it. So it goes.

Yep. And I just don't get it. I found an appt for my MAGA inlaws that are the definition of high risk 5 miles from them so as easy as it gets.  Although we knew the likely answer, I made my wife bug them.  She never got a response.   Just ridiculous but what can you do.

2 hours ago, Heme Doc said:

Totally agree.  The vaccines are awesome and there’s no benefit to keep acting like they’re not.  Paper from NEJM today shows Pfizer vaccine in Israel reduced asymptomatic infections by 90% one week and beyond 2nd dose.  Symptomatic infections at that point were basically nil.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101765?query=featured_home

Fuck the masks forever crowd.  Vaccines are coming for you.  

agreed and there was never a reason ever to act or state that there might be a issue with them.

I wonder if H‑E‑B will vaccinate more austinites in the next few weeks than APH has done to date. I don’t know anyone who has gotten vaccinated by APH but a dozen friends all got an appointment with H‑E‑B today.

7 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

I wonder if H‑E‑B will vaccinate more austinites in the next few weeks than APH has done to date. I don’t know anyone who has gotten vaccinated by APH but a dozen friends all got an appointment with H‑E‑B today.

Not only that, but you don’t have to deal with the logistical issues APH clearly is having. H‑E‑B has their shit together.

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Shots. In. Arms.

 

What is endpoint?

You guys getting HEB appointments, are those appointments saying open to 1A/1B only? Or are they just general public?

13 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

I wonder if H‑E‑B will vaccinate more austinites in the next few weeks than APH has done to date.

Yup and you'll get a yellow super saver for a bag of doritos to go with your shot

5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

What is endpoint?

For the trials, the endpoint to date has largely been defined as symptomatic disease. There are reasons related to study design, logistics, and power that dictate. But the real relevant endpoints imo are hospitalization and death.  We look extremely good on those measures. 

Just now, Anastasis said:

For the trials, the endpoint to date has largely been defined as symptomatic disease. There are reasons related to study design, logistics, and power that dictate. But the real relevant endpoints imo are hospitalization and death.  We look extremely good on those measures. 

So help me understand what they mean when they say j&j vaccine is 65% effective and modern a is 95% effective. Those numbers imply much much better than that. Moderna had very few get covid that took the vaccine. 

11 covid out of 13,000 participants on the moderne study is way better than 95%

 

8 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

So help me understand what they mean when they say j&j vaccine is 65% effective and modern a is 95% effective. Those numbers imply much much better than that. Moderna had very few get covid that took the vaccine. 

The primary endpoint for the studies is vaccine efficacy at preventing symptomatic COVID (at least for PFE and MRNA, I have still not read the JNJ data). Its a relative measure that contrasts event rate in active vs placebo group. I would argue that symptomatic disease is really only a surrogate study endpoint selected for statistical purposes. Not to diminish the relevance of symptomatic disease, but the real endpoints of interest are hospitalization and mortality. However you can't design a study around those endpoints wihtout setting up for failure or untenable sample size targets. All the vaccines appear to substantially reduce the risk of hospitalization and mortality. Get shots in arms. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Anastasis

 
The primary endpoint for the studies is vaccine efficacy at preventing symptomatic COVID (at least for PFE and MRNA, I have still not read the JNJ data). Its a relative measure that contrasts event rate in active vs placebo group. I would argue that symptomatic disease is really only a surrogate study endpoint selected for statistical purposes. Not to diminish the relevance of symptomatic disease, but the real endpoints of interest are hospitalization and mortality. However you can't design a study around those endpoints wihtout setting up for failure or untenable sample size targets. All the vaccines appear to substantially reduce the risk of hospitalization and mortality. Get shots in arms. 

Agreed. If vaccines can turn COVID into 1) a disease that isn’t that widespread and 2) when it does flare up, it affects people no worse than a regular cold....that’s a fucking Super Bowl World Cup World Series win. And it looks like that is indeed what they do. So....inject ERRBODY.

43 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

You guys getting HEB appointments, are those appointments saying open to 1A/1B only? Or are they just general public?

Technically 1b but everyone is signing up for them. Besides, everyone is fat so they probably qualify anyway

You are also allowed to print out your posting history here at surly and bring it to show you are retarded and that allows you into 1b as well.

5 hours ago, Lobo said:

Both administrations have made mistakes with Covid-19 and the vaccine.  Both administrations made tremendous progress with Covid-19 and the vaccine.  We'll probably uncover more pros and cons about the last team and this current team has many more mistakes and successes to go before we're out of this mess.  The one constant through all of it is stupid people not taking the vaccine for stupid reasons and stalling out our herd immunity trajectory.  

Biden doesn't really have to do anything but manage the existing supply chain and we'll be fine.  I think people really overstate the anti vaxxers.  just like everything in the social media era a small group can appear large. 

sign up for City of Houston Emergency text alerts. The past two days they've sent two texts with 2000 extra spots open. My neighbor signed up this morning, got a text at 4pm, she has a spot tomorrow. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by tx 3 putt

3 hours ago, blacklab said:

You are also allowed to print out your posting history here at surly and bring it to show you are retarded and that allows you into 1b as well.

8 hours ago, blacklab said:

You are also allowed to print out your posting history here at surly and bring it to show you are retarded and that allows you into 1b as well.

 

anyone know if taking immunosuppressant medicine qualifies you for 1b?

As slow as this process is going I think the need for more data on the longevity of protection will become more critical.  I know people who got their second shot more than a month ago. What level of protection will they have in September?

27 minutes ago, Viper said:

anyone know if taking immunosuppressant medicine qualifies you for 1b?

Wouldn't that hinder your body's ability to generate new antibodies and retain them, generally making vaccines moot for that person? 

18 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Wouldn't that hinder your body's ability to generate new antibodies and retain them, generally making vaccines moot for that person? 

reduced efficacy but not moot it seems

https://www.ajmc.com/view/taking-immunosuppressants-fauci-says-get-the-covid-19-vaccine

Quote

“It is clear that if you are on immunosuppressant agents, history tells us that you are not going to have as robust a response as if you had an intact immune system that was not being compromised,” Fauci said, in response to a question from ASH President Stephanie Lee, MD, of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center, Seattle. “But some degree of immunity is better than no degree of immunity. So, for me, it would be recommended that these people do get vaccinated.”

 

1 hour ago, Viper said:

anyone know if taking immunosuppressant medicine qualifies you for 1b?

Isn't this a big reason all of us are getting vaccinated?  Except of course for the selfish bastards who can't think if anyone else but themselves.

3 of my friends got spot today, signed up yesterday. N Houston 

Edited February 25, 2021 by tx 3 putt

Any word on when Austin HEBs are gonna get their shipment? Specifically the one in Westlake off 360 and bee caves 

I've been reloading the heb site constantly for the last two weeks and have gotten "all times are booked" every time but 3.

Those three I went through every date and time available and all were booked. 

I've never seen the westlake/360 or bee cave/71 ever listed.

from what I've read, we're supposed to have 140 million doses of the two dose vaccines before the end of March and 20 million of the one dose vaccine as well so there should be a lot more available in the coming weeks

Edited February 25, 2021 by Viper