COVID-19 vaccine discussion

The recognition of nucleic acids is a pretty old and evolutionarily conserved arm of the immune system, regulated by receptors called 'Toll Like Receptors' (named because the German scientist who discovered them in the lab called them 'toll', meaning 'cool'.). Their whole role is to recognize 'coatings' that are used by bacteria, or nucleic acids (single, or double-stranded RNA) used by viruses or bacteria. 

While the nanoparticle coating could potentially diminish 'free' RNA from floating around, I'm not sure that's the mechanism here as TLR receptors cycle into the intracellular space, basically to monitor for the presence of infection. This pathway gets abnormal in people with autoimmune disease, for instance, where the body starts making an immune response to normal cellular RNA and DNA (like in lupus). Basically, there immune system evolved to deal with the threat of nucleic acids floating around that don't belong there. 

I think what's being seen with those with severe allergic hypersensitivity will see it with either RNA vaccine, or at least thats my guess. Again, these are people who have such hypersensitivity they have to travel around with EpiPens, so it's not just people like me that sneeze in contact with anything flowering or furry. 

Are toll like receptors down regulated during apoptosis? Basically what is to prevent an immune response during cell death?

No, and the recognition of 'self' nucleic acids is definitely a pathway for the onset of autoimmune disease. Basically, if a cell dies quietly, you're less likely to have issues. But apoptosis in the context of other inflammatory signals can definitely break self-tolerance. 

The hospital my wife works at is receiving 950 doses and will start giving them out next Wednesday.

1 hour ago, rpspeed said:

The hospital my wife works at is receiving 950 doses and will start giving them out next Wednesday.

She make the cut?

11 hours ago, Txzen said:

The recognition of nucleic acids is a pretty old and evolutionarily conserved arm of the immune system, regulated by receptors called 'Toll Like Receptors' (named because the German scientist who discovered them in the lab called them 'toll', meaning 'cool'.). Their whole role is to recognize 'coatings' that are used by bacteria, or nucleic acids (single, or double-stranded RNA) used by viruses or bacteria. 

While the nanoparticle coating could potentially diminish 'free' RNA from floating around, I'm not sure that's the mechanism here as TLR receptors cycle into the intracellular space, basically to monitor for the presence of infection. This pathway gets abnormal in people with autoimmune disease, for instance, where the body starts making an immune response to normal cellular RNA and DNA (like in lupus). Basically, there immune system evolved to deal with the threat of nucleic acids floating around that don't belong there. 

I think what's being seen with those with severe allergic hypersensitivity will see it with either RNA vaccine, or at least thats my guess. Again, these are people who have such hypersensitivity they have to travel around with EpiPens, so it's not just people like me that sneeze in contact with anything flowering or furry. 

What can I say - I’m a bastion of (sometimes) useless information. 

FDA AdComm meeting underway.  

 

On 11/20/2020 at 8:17 PM, Heme Doc said:

Fuck this Dec 10 shit.  Warp speed my ass.  They need to move it up by at least a week

And yet, here we are.

This is just regulatory theatre. 

Should the previously infected get it?

We have this vague notion out there that people can be reinfected, does the vax help/hurt/whofuckingknows?

 

18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Should the previously infected get it?

We have this vague notion out there that people can be reinfected, does the vax help/hurt/whofuckingknows?

Was wondering the same thing myself, along with other random questions like what happens if you get the first stage of the vax then contract covid before you get the 2nd?

14 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

She make the cut?

Its on a  first come basis. Its not mandatory and still have to wear a mask after vaccination.

11 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

still have to wear a mask after vaccination.

That sucks. I want to wear a shirt that says "I'M IMMUNE FROM YOUR BULLSHIT".

On 11/20/2020 at 8:58 PM, StruggleBus said:

How about tomorrow you worthless fucking fucks 

 

Calm down, its operation "Warp Speed" not operation "Ludicrous Speed"

 

20 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Calm down, its operation "Warp Speed" not operation "Ludicrous Speed"

29 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

That sucks. I want to wear a shirt that says "I'M IMMUNE FROM YOUR BULLSHIT".

I was like wtf at first but I think she said they are going on an 80% effective  rate and can't have an asymptomatic nurse or doc walking thru the ICU because the vaccine didn't work on them.

13 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

I was like wtf at first but I think she said they are going on an 80% effective  rate and can't have an asymptomatic nurse or doc walking thru the ICU because the vaccine didn't work on them.

Well, I was promised a T-shirt.

4 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Well, I was promised a T-shirt.

In the mail...

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMJqa2QFp/

Stupid everywhere

AdComm endorses the vaccine for 16+ years of age. Total waste of time and resources. FDA better have an EUA ready to roll tomorrow. 

51 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

AdComm endorses the vaccine for 16+ years of age. Total waste of time and resources. FDA better have an EUA ready to roll tomorrow. 

In the spirit of Waco light tours - “Den let's get our roll on"

Happy EUA Day for Pfizer vaccine!  If we don’t see the FDA issue an EUA today, they should be lit on fire.  Also, who were the four “no” votes on the committee?  I’d like to kick them in the balls repeatedly.  

I got an email from my Pfizer trial location basically letting me know that I’d be unblinded once the EUA was issued and if I received placebo (unlikely), then they’d get me in ASAP for the real vaccine because I’m in healthcare.  
 

20 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Should the previously infected get it?

We have this vague notion out there that people can be reinfected, does the vax help/hurt/whofuckingknows?

I’m seeing reports that the previously infected should get it. The vaccine might produce a longer time you are immune. Worse case the vaccine does nothing for you. Outside of implanting the Bill Gates tracker in you, of course.

Two more interesting vaccine things...

It would be nice if we had a quick, readily available test for COVID neutralizing antibodies.  Probably around 60M Americans have already been infected with COVID.  So if you could identify those people, their vaccination could be deferred since it will be in somewhat short supply initially.

Which transitions to the second thing...Almost all of our commercially available antibody tests are to the N (nucleocapsid) part of the coronavirus.  But these vaccines are all built to elicit antibodies to the S (spike) part of the virus.     So if I get vaccine, my antibody test will be negative for N (assuming I haven’t actually had COVID).  So what Pfizer is doing is checking vaccinated folks for the presence N antibodies, which could only be elicited by actual COVID infection.  So you’ll have your answer if vaccination prevents infection entirely (thus halting transmission) or if it only causes infections to be asymptomatic.  

13 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

Happy EUA Day for Pfizer vaccine!  If we don’t see the FDA issue an EUA today, they should be lit on fire.  Also, who were the four “no” votes on the committee?  I’d like to kick them in the balls repeatedly.  

I got an email from my Pfizer trial location basically letting me know that I’d be unblinded once the EUA was issued and if I received placebo (unlikely), then they’d get me in ASAP for the real vaccine because I’m in healthcare.  
 

I think that at least a couple of the no’s would have supported the eua if it was amended to 18+. Hard to know cause they did not do the customary discussion after the vote. But that was my read based on hearing some of the discussion before. The chair just rammed the motion through and stifled a lot of the discussion by shutting down questions. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Anastasis
Not

25 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

Also, who were the four “no” votes on the committee?

Dr.'s Karen, Karen, Karen, and Karen.

Well, did we miss anyone?  

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

Well, did we miss anyone?  

Edited December 11, 2020 by Cheeseweasel

5 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I think that at least a couple of the no’s would have supported the eua if it was amended to 18+. Hard to know cause they did not do the customary discussion after the vote. But that was my read based on hearing some of the discussion before. The chair just rammed the motion through and stifled a lot of the discussion by shutting down questions. 

I would’ve loved to hear what the no’s were based on. We’ve consulted these experts for a reason, their concerns should’ve been fully voiced. Then people could’ve decided on their own if they were well founded, or just based on a small technicality like the age cutoff. 

13 hours ago, Heme Doc said:

Two more interesting vaccine things...

It would be nice if we had a quick, readily available test for COVID neutralizing antibodies.  Probably around 60M Americans have already been infected with COVID.  So if you could identify those people, their vaccination could be deferred since it will be in somewhat short supply initially.

Which transitions to the second thing...Almost all of our commercially available antibody tests are to the N (nucleocapsid) part of the coronavirus.  But these vaccines are all built to elicit antibodies to the S (spike) part of the virus.     So if I get vaccine, my antibody test will be negative for N (assuming I haven’t actually had COVID).  So what Pfizer is doing is checking vaccinated folks for the presence N antibodies, which could only be elicited by actual COVID infection.  So you’ll have your answer if vaccination prevents infection entirely (thus halting transmission) or if it only causes infections to be asymptomatic.  

That our natural immunoresponse is to the N as you say, could mutations there be the reason people can or have had second infection?  Whereas the spike is a stable piece by replication necessity and thus antibodies for it continue to be useful?

12 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That our natural immunoresponse is to the N as you say, could mutations there be the reason people can or have had second infection?  Whereas the spike is a stable piece by replication necessity and thus antibodies for it continue to be useful?

Our natural immune response is against all parts of the coronavirus (Nucleocapsid, Spike protein, etc).  It’s just that what we are testing for primarily right now is antibodies against N.  So we have a way to distinguish immunity through vaccination (should only have antibodies to Spike) vs immunity through infection (should have antibodies to N, Spike, etc)
 

I’m not sure why people get infected twice, but that is very rare.  Fortunately, coronaviruses are more stable than other viruses like flu, so hopefully we won’t see emergence of mutations affecting Spike protein that will allow it to evade immunity.  

 

 

Oh, and it just got the EUA

So do they start administrating it tonight?

Wow, didn’t see that coming, glad we waited a month 

Do they have an approved list of groupings and stages yet, or are they just going to start with healthcare and LTC type workers while they finalize the draft order?

I signed up to help administer the COVID vaccine to medical staff starting next week. Most of the ICU nurses that I work with have passed on getting it. I would have eagerly gotten it if it wasn't for a disqualifying factor (pregnancy). 

6 minutes ago, whithou said:

I signed up to help administer the COVID vaccine to medical staff starting next week. Most of the ICU nurses that I work with have passed on getting it. I would have eagerly gotten it if it wasn't for a disqualifying factor (pregnancy). 

Why are they passing?

Everyone I work with says they won't take it. I live in a smaller Texas town.

We're fucked as a society because people won't take a fucking shot.

We're fucked as a society because people won't take a fucking shot.

Cool, means I’ll get it sooner.

10 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

We're fucked as a society because people won't take a fucking shot.

We just need the majority to get the shot to get herd immunity 

 

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool, means I’ll get it sooner.

Exactly. 

43 minutes ago, whithou said:

I signed up to help administer the COVID vaccine to medical staff starting next week. Most of the ICU nurses that I work with have passed on getting it. I would have eagerly gotten it if it wasn't for a disqualifying factor (pregnancy). 

Is it only for employees and physicians with privileges at your hospital or can any physician get it?

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool, means I’ll get it sooner.

or not. But if you were a politician you would be considered an essential worker.

It would be fascinating data to see what percentage of frontline healthcare workers who have been in the shit have had asymptotic cases.  Is it possible to deal with infected patients for nine months and not get infected?

 

9 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Why are they passing?

Reasons from being "I don't want to be a guinea pig" to "Bill Gates wants to know where I am". I wish I was kidding. When I ask if they have read more about the vaccine most haven't done their own research. 

9 hours ago, Bevo said:

Is it only for employees and physicians with privileges at your hospital or can any physician get it?

It's only for those that work at my hospital. 

Pardon me for a brief threadjack, but what does this mean? (Colonoscopy result - I haven’t been to see my doctor yet):

DIAGNOSIS:
Transverse colon, polypectomy:
-Low grade tubular adenoma.

GROSS:
Specimen labeled transverse colon polyp is a single 0.4 cm tan-red
fragment. Entirely submitted in 1A.

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Armybrat