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  • I thought it might be helpful to have a separate topic related to the vaccine.  If this is too much duplication, mods please delete this thread.  I thought it would be good to talk about who can get the vaccine, where they can get it, what side effects people are seeing, and in general what is going on with distribution.

    The CDC has published vaccine distribution guidelines, and if you care, they are worth reading.  They are dividing the timeline into:

    • Phase 1 - Potentially limited supply of COVID-19 vaccine doses available
    • Phase 2 - Large number of vaccine doses available
    • Phase 3 - Sufficient supply of vaccine doses for entire population

    Who you are will determine if you are eligible for a vaccine in the various phases.

    Phase 1 is divided into a Phase 1a and a Phase 1b:

    • Phase 1a - Mostly healthcare workers
    • Phase 1b - Other essential workers, people with higher risks, people over 65

    If you are eligible to get the vaccine and they have in in stock and you want to get it, it is important to go get it.  Both of the first two vaccines can spoil, so if a dose is sitting there and you aren't there to get it, they might have to throw it away.

    Both vaccines require two shots.  It is important to go get that second shot.

    Who fits in phase 1b and who has to wait until phase 2 might be a sticking point.  The "people in higher risks" category includes a lot of folks, maybe more than you would think might be in that category.  Hopefully we can quickly get to phase 2 so that we don't spend too long arguing about who is or is not in Phase 1b.

    Anyway, I'm interested in everyone's experience with the vaccine and especially getting the word out for those that can go get it, so that every dose ends up in an arm rather than in the trash.

     

     


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    Parliament

    Posted

    I hate to spread rumors, but...
    I heard ND is going Stage 2 tomorrow. Ie, ANYONE over 16 can sign up for the Cure.

    Also, I know a guy who can get any of you a fake ND ID for a case of Busch Light.

    XYZ

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

    Are there any vaccines against viral diseases that don't also effectively prevent asymptomatic transmission?

    The traditional vaccines (attenuated or dead virus) give you sterilizing immunity.

    Heme Doc

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Anastasis said:

    Are there any vaccines against viral diseases that don't also effectively prevent asymptomatic transmission?

    No

    • Hook 'Em 1
    Heme Doc

    Posted

    6 hours ago, midtown said:

    As I've said before.  Can the CDC and other experts talk about this?  Or should we just continue to tell people science sucks and we have to wear masks for ever.

     

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/pfizer-vaccine-shows-94-effectiveness-asymptomatic-transmission-covid/story?id=76389615

     

    It’s fucking maddening and infuriating.  

    Lots of data now showing that this vaccine is really good at preventing infection...period.  Not just symptomatic infection.  And if you can’t get it, how the fuck are you going to spread it?  Then why do you need to wear a fucking mask?  I’ll wear a mask if you want me to.  But right for me, a vaccinated person, the mask probably does as much to protect me as wearing a monacle.  At least the CDC said vaccinated people don’t need to wear masks or distance when around other vaccinated individuals 

    My office mandates masks in everyone entering the building (obviously).  Like 80% of my patients in clinic have already been fully vaccinated.  Both me and the patient still wear masks in the room.   I leave the patient room and then go back to the nurses area to shoot the shit with my partners and nurses (all vaccinated).  We all take our masks off.  

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    Anastasis

    Posted (edited)

    1 hour ago, Heme Doc said:

    It’s fucking maddening and infuriating.  

    Lots of data now showing that this vaccine is really good at preventing infection...period.  Not just symptomatic infection.  And if you can’t get it, how the fuck are you going to spread it?  Then why do you need to wear a fucking mask?  I’ll wear a mask if you want me to.  But right for me, a vaccinated person, the mask probably does as much to protect me as wearing a monacle.  At least the CDC said vaccinated people don’t need to wear masks or distance when around other vaccinated individuals 

    My office mandates masks in everyone entering the building (obviously).  Like 80% of my patients in clinic have already been fully vaccinated.  Both me and the patient still wear masks in the room.   I leave the patient room and then go back to the nurses area to shoot the shit with my partners and nurses (all vaccinated).  We all take our masks off.  

    It’s all kinda crazy. Like how did vaccines may not reduce transmission even become a thing?

    Edited by Anastasis
    Deej

    Posted

    Just now, Anastasis said:

    More like dishonest public health messaging borne out of necessity as a result of the right out stupidity of the general population. 

    murica GIF by FirstAndMonday

    • Haha 1
    Brisketexan

    Posted

    More like dishonest public health messaging borne out of necessity as a result of the right out stupidity of the general population. 

    I hate to rep you, but truth is truth.
    Anastasis

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:


    I hate to rep you, but truth is truth.

    Problem is that the inconsistency and flaws are easily identified and given the social media landscape the dishonest messaging become counterproductive. Just tell people the truth.  That should not be too hard. 

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    Brisketexan

    Posted

    Problem is that the inconsistency and flaws are easily identified and given the social media landscape the dishonest messaging become counterproductive. Just tell people the truth.  That should not be too hard. 

    The truth? And have it actually accepted and acknowledged by people? You’re adorable.

    Truth doesn’t matter.

    Well meaning lies don’t matter.

    Most people will only believe what they want to believe. That’s all there is to that. And you know I’m right. It doesn’t matter what anyone says, it only matters what they want to hear.
    Anastasis

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


    The truth? And have it actually accepted and acknowledged by people? You’re adorable.

    Truth doesn’t matter.

    Well meaning lies don’t matter.

    Most people will only believe what they want to believe. That’s all there is to that. And you know I’m right. It doesn’t matter what anyone says, it only matters what they want to hear.

    Truth is not predicated on it being acknowledged. Propaganda otoh is the realm you speak of. Let's just be clear on which is which. 

    Brisketexan

    Posted

    Truth is not predicated on it being acknowledged. Propaganda otoh is the realm you speak of. Let's just be clear on which is which. 

    There is no longer any difference in any of it. It doesn’t matter. Say what you want. The truth. Lies. Propaganda. It doesn’t matter. People seek the story they want, and this “digital dark age” we are in let’s them find that exact story. Easily. On repeat.

    It’s a post-facts world.
    • Like 1
    Anastasis

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:


    There is no longer any difference in any of it. It doesn’t matter. Say what you want. The truth. Lies. Propaganda. It doesn’t matter. People seek the story they want, and this “digital dark age” we are in let’s them find that exact story. Easily. On repeat.

    It’s a post-facts world.

    Sure. You didn't invent the ledge my friend. 

    washparkhorn

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

    You didn't invent the ledge my friend. 

    I did not hear him make that claim, fine sir. 

    Anastasis

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

    I did not hear him make that claim, fine sir. 

    source.gif

    gmr548

    Posted

    14 hours ago, Anastasis said:

    It’s all kinda crazy. Like how did vaccines may not reduce transmission even become a thing?

     

    14 hours ago, Anastasis said:

    More like dishonest public health messaging borne out of necessity as a result of the right out stupidity of the general population. 

    You kind of answered your own question. I'd say I don't think it was dishonesty more than a mistake/incompetence. It wasn't untrue early on when the message was "We don't know if these vaccines curb asymptomatic transmission..." It should have absolutely been framed better than "... so if vaccinated, continue to pretty much try to avoid all risk as if unvaccinated." That's 1.) An extreme message people are going to ignore, and 2.) A great way to get that chunk of the population that aren't dipshit hardline antivaxxers, but generally low info/apathetic about the whole thing, to just say "Well what's the point?" and end up skipping it.

    And it's a fair point that a good chunk of this country is too dumb to be talked to like adults. "We don't know for sure. There's a good chance they do curb asymptomatic transmission, but we can't know that, or how effectively they do, until we get real world data. Obviously being vaccinated changes the risk calculus but probably better to hold off on the highest risk situations until we have a clearer picture." If that was the word coming out in January people may well have just fuck it way too early.

    Pato del Muerto

    Posted

    The alternative is to say that the vaccinated can return to normal life and be maskless, and have every anti-masker claim vaccinated status when approached about masking. 

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    gmr548

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

    The alternative is to say that the vaccinated can return to normal life and be maskless, and have every anti-masker claim vaccinated status when approached about masking. 

    Yeah, to some extent there is no right answer.

    Snake Diggity

    Posted

    13 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

    The alternative is to say that the vaccinated can return to normal life and be maskless, and have every anti-masker claim vaccinated status when approached about masking. 

    Would’ve been great if there’d been some kind of unifying message around collectively reaching a certain vaccination goal (200M?).

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    Armybrat

    Posted

    “Unifying” is a term that has escaped anyone in leadership for the past 19 years.

    Incredulity

    Posted

    30 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

    “Unifying” is a term that has escaped anyone in leadership for the past 19 years.

    They talk about it.  Not a single one does anything remotely unifying, but they do talk about it.

    Pato del Muerto

    Posted

    Just now, Incredulity said:

    They talk about it.  Not a single one does anything remotely unifying, but they do talk about it.

    The people that talk about it are the ones with less power. Then the power flips and the other side talks about it. 

    • Hook 'Em 3
    956 Worldwide

    Posted

    On 3/16/2021 at 4:35 PM, Liquor and Poker said:

    Vaccine skepticism is off the charts in Europe, and not in the former Eastern Bloc (where I would have guessed).  Mostly places like France, Germany, Belgium - traditional Continental Western Europe.  So the politicians are having to tread lightly to avoid further spread of the perception that the vaccine is some low-tech Logan's Run scenario.  That's the real reason for the silly "pause to investigate."

    Pretty much this.  It was only AstraZeneca. All of Europe is a hellscape of anti-van disinformation fueled by the Kremlin. Long-term, you do more damage not going through the charade of a couple day “pause” to investigate one brand, even if it is stupid. Don’t give the people room to “just ask questions.”

    I live in Europe and even among normal, pro-vax people it’s hilarious to see the armchair pharmacologists talking about the different vaccines. For those keeping score, Pfizer is the Cadillac (U-S-A!). Moderna is a solidly middle class, AstraZeneca is the off-brand. When it gets here, Johnson and Johnson will likely be right below Moderna.

    Sputnik V is for people who have multiple coordinated tracksuits. 

    Armybrat

    Posted

    9 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

    Isn’t Pfizer german?

    The Pfizer vaccine has been developed by an American corporation called Pfizerin New York and BioNTech, a German biotechnology company based in Mainz, Germany. 

    Pato del Muerto

    Posted

    16 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

    The Pfizer vaccine has been developed by an American corporation called Pfizerin New York and BioNTech, a German biotechnology company based in Mainz, Germany. 

    I knew it was something. Maybe the German company did all the development using Pfizer money, and then pfizer ran the clinicals. 

    SizzleChest

    Posted

    They did most everything jointly, from the conduct of the trials to manufacturing.  BioNTech produced the clinical supply (vaccine) for the trials.  Pfizer provided the upfront cash to fund the trials (~$100MM), and BioNTech will refund 50% back to Pfizer.  So, it's really a joint effort up and down the line.  

    BioNTech stands to receive about 3/4 of a billion from Pfizer ultimately.

    • Hook 'Em 2
    Guest Lobo

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

    Isn’t Pfizer german?

    That would explain Miller's working names for "Operation Warp Speed" around the White House

    Operation Blitzkrieg and/or Operation Mach Schnell 

    he always seemed a little too giddy when he was saying it.  

    XYZ

    Posted

    So, do these mRNA covid vaccines prevent transmission of the virus or not? Why isn’t this known yet? Or is it known but they don’t want to spill the beans? Like, if it does prevent transmission, then vaccinated people can stop all of this social distancing stuff three weeks after getting the vaccine. If, on the other hand, it doesn’t prevent transmission, then we are kind of fucked.

    midtown

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

    79% effective against disease, 100% effective against severe disease. 

    Add it to the list then esp if the euro-trash don't want it.

    956 Worldwide

    Posted

    21 hours ago, XYZ said:

    So, do these mRNA covid vaccines prevent transmission of the virus or not? Why isn’t this known yet? Or is it known but they don’t want to spill the beans? Like, if it does prevent transmission, then vaccinated people can stop all of this social distancing stuff three weeks after getting the vaccine. If, on the other hand, it doesn’t prevent transmission, then we are kind of fucked.

    They likely do, and there are some hints of studies coming out that will show that.  But the reason it isn't known is because it takes time to gather the data and analyze it.  

    https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22291959/covid-vaccines-transmission-protect-spread-virus-moderna-pfizer

     

     

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    midtown

    Posted

    45 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

    hints of studies coming out that will show that.

    Aren't the studies a bit more than hints?

    Enchubben

    Posted

    On 3/19/2021 at 6:22 PM, Anastasis said:

    It’s all kinda crazy. Like how did vaccines may not reduce transmission even become a thing?

    ahem.....

    On 3/2/2021 at 2:10 PM, GreenspointTexas said:

    Have u been living under a rock? You can still transmit the disease to others even with vaccination

     

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    Txzen

    Posted

    On 3/19/2021 at 8:43 AM, Anastasis said:

    Are there any vaccines against viral diseases that don't also effectively prevent asymptomatic transmission?

    Yeah, influenza is a great example link

    Quote

    Although sterilizing immunity—preventing infection entirely—is a desirable goal for influenza vaccines, not every vaccine can or even must achieve it to confer meaningful clinical benefit. Currently licensed pneumococcal vaccines confer only modest protection against Streptococcus pneumoniae pneumonia in adults. However, the rarer and more fatal complication of invasive pneumococcal disease (IPD) is reduced by approximately three-quarters in vaccinated elderly adults [50,51,52]. Bacille Calmette-Guérin (BCG), an attenuated strain of Mycobacterium bovis, has been administered to nearly 4 billion people worldwide since 1921, primarily to young children in whom it is highly effective at preventing the potentially fatal complication of disseminated tuberculosis. However, BCG vaccination does not prevent acquisition of latent tuberculosis infection (LTBI), its protection is not long-lasting, and it is relatively ineffective when given to adults, particularly in preventing the reactivation of LTBI into active pulmonary tuberculosis [53]. However, the drastic reduction in pediatric mortality that BCG provides makes the vaccine both clinically effective and cost effective in parts of the world where M. tuberculosis remains endemic [54].

    The whole review is a pretty good read. I've also seen a paper where the intranasal flu vaccine was more effective at inducing sterilizing immunity than the intramuscular version, but can't seem to find it at the moment. 

    But as mentioned, the continued requirement for masks has much more to do with the fact that places like states are only single-digit vaccination status, as well as to prevent the Karens from non-compliance by claiming to be vaccinated.

    • Hook 'Em 1
    GreenspointTexas

    Posted

    42 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

    ahem.....

     

    Nevermind the fact that you had to dig a few weeks back to get to that post but what you quoted me saying does not contradict what Anastasis is saying. Of course vaccines decrease transmission. There still isnt enough evidence at this point to know whether they completely stop asymptomatic transmission (they likely wont ever completely “stop” it). CDC says the same and still advocates wearing a mask. No reason AT THIS TIME to tell people who are vaccinated to stop wearing masks. 

     

    With less than 15% of the population vaccinated, I have no clue why someone wouldnt wear a mask in public at this point. When we have 70% of the population vaccinated, its a different conversation. 
     

    We still arent at the point of “Im vaccinated, goodbye masks forever!” As much as yall hate wearing masks for a few minutes out of your day, its really best to continue wearing them until more are vaccinated

     

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/fully-vaccinated-people.html

    • Hook 'Em 2
    Heme Doc

    Posted

    22 hours ago, XYZ said:

    So, do these mRNA covid vaccines prevent transmission of the virus or not? Why isn’t this known yet? Or is it known but they don’t want to spill the beans? Like, if it does prevent transmission, then vaccinated people can stop all of this social distancing stuff three weeks after getting the vaccine. If, on the other hand, it doesn’t prevent transmission, then we are kind of fucked.

    1.  Yes.  They absolutely do

    2.  It is known.  Just not reported on as much.  Here’s some recent data from Israel

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101765

    and Mayo Clinic

    https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab229/6167855

    They do prevent transmission.  Nothing is fucked here, dude.  

    • Hook 'Em 1
    Heme Doc

    Posted

    39 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

    Nevermind the fact that you had to dig a few weeks back to get to that post but what you quoted me saying does not contradict what Anastasis is saying. Of course vaccines decrease transmission. There still isnt enough evidence at this point to know whether they completely stop asymptomatic transmission (they likely wont ever completely “stop” it). CDC says the same and still advocates wearing a mask. No reason AT THIS TIME to tell people who are vaccinated to stop wearing masks. 

     

    With less than 15% of the population vaccinated, I have no clue why someone wouldnt wear a mask in public at this point. When we have 70% of the population vaccinated, its a different conversation. 
     

    We still arent at the point of “Im vaccinated, goodbye masks forever!” As much as yall hate wearing masks for a few minutes out of your day, its really best to continue wearing them until more are vaccinated

     

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/fully-vaccinated-people.html

    Agree with this.

    Vaccines stop transmission, although not 100%.  So until more folks vaccinated we need to continue to be cautious.  

    midtown

    Posted (edited)

    55 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

    Vaccines stop transmission, although not 100%.  So until more folks vaccinated we need to continue to be cautious.

    And I think a lot of people are down with this.  However.  At some point the polarity will flip and a larger percentage of the public will be vaccinated including probably the bulk of those over 50 or "1B's".   At that point we've, in theory, protected those most likely to be hospitalized and/or die and at that point and the default should be normal life and optional masks.  If business want to continue to mandate them that's fine.  I assume airlines will stick with it for at least through the year by way of federal mandate.   If you are still scared about being out with maskless people you should stay home.

    Edited by midtown
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