COVID-19 vaccine discussion

Prepare your anus

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Incredulity
Obligatory

49 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Pardon me for a brief threadjack, but what does this mean? (Colonoscopy result - I haven’t been to see my doctor yet):

DIAGNOSIS:
Transverse colon, polypectomy:
-Low grade tubular adenoma.

GROSS:
Specimen labeled transverse colon polyp is a single 0.4 cm tan-red
fragment. Entirely submitted in 1A.

 

<<~~ no Dr/not medical advice/from the intertrons

 

 

Adenomas: Two-thirds of colon polyps are the precancerous type, called adenomas. It can take seven to 10 or more years for an adenoma to evolve into cancer—if it ever does. Overall, only 5% of adenomas progress to cancer, but your individual risk is hard to predict

 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Incredulity

Removed a pre cancerous polyp looks like. Pretty normal, given your age (not a doctor)

6 hours ago, Incredulity said:

It would be fascinating data to see what percentage of frontline healthcare workers who have been in the shit have had asymptotic cases.  Is it possible to deal with infected patients for nine months and not get infected?

 

The wife has been hands on taking care of ICU COVID since March....every day she works ....12-13 hours a shift. Her co-workers (not all but most) have caught and recovered from it....not her, not one little symptom.... amazing!

 

Oh ... the obligatory pic of wife....

Edited December 12, 2020 by Hpara759

9 minutes ago, Hpara759 said:

The wife has been hands on taking care of ICU COVID since March....every day she works ....12-13 hours a shift. Her co-workers (not all but most) have caught and recovered from it....not her, not one little symptom.... amazing!

 

Oh the the obligatory pic of wife....

 

Has she gotten an antibody test to see if she has had it? I feel like I and most of the nurses have likely gotten it but testing is only offered if we have had symptoms. We have had a couple of patients that have gotten COVID while hospitalized so even with us all wearing masks it is still being spread around. 

First, that’s amazing and much respect.  
 

Has she been tested for antibodies?  

 

10 minutes ago, whithou said:

Has she gotten an antibody test to see if she has had it? I feel like I and most of the nurses have likely gotten it but testing is only offered if we have had symptoms. We have had a couple of patients that have gotten COVID while hospitalized so even with us all wearing masks it is still being spread around. 

In May she was tested for antibodies (neg)

We're fucked as a society because people won't take a fucking shot.

Meh. More for me and my family then. If you’re too dumb to get this shot, you’re probably not somebody making a positive impact on society.

My wife is a nurse and she's gonna get one, but she is also hesitant due to the sped up processes that this vaccine went through compared to others. It's a legitimate concern and to say otherwise is being naive. 

55 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Prepare your anus

 

 

 

That’s the gross part?

On 12/10/2020 at 12:26 PM, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Calm down, its operation "Warp Speed" not operation "Ludicrous Speed"

 

On 12/10/2020 at 12:46 PM, Cheeseweasel said:

 

I signed up to help administer the COVID vaccine to medical staff starting next week. Most of the ICU nurses that I work with have passed on getting it. I would have eagerly gotten it if it wasn't for a disqualifying factor (pregnancy). 

I've seen some numbers. Austin metro hospitals have about 50% participation rate for this first go around. Higher in Austin proper, lower in the burbs.

A lot of them are seemingly going to wait a few months before taking it but eventually plan to (this part is anecdotal not from data).

Have they added the autism causing part to the vaccine yet or are they going to release it with out it and add it in later?

57 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I've seen some numbers. Austin metro hospitals have about 50% participation rate for this first go around. Higher in Austin proper, lower in the burbs.

A lot of them are seemingly going to wait a few months before taking it but eventually plan to (this part is anecdotal not from data).

My thoughts are that the trials started months ago. Any issues that take months to materialize will have already begun appearing in numbers. Any issues that take years to materialize, well a few more months won’t tell us shut about that. So the choice is get it ASAP or not get it at all. 
 

certain population segments like pregnant or trying to get pregnant women may want to wait 10 months to see if there’s any fetal development issues. Maybe people afflicted with specific other issues, cancer or something, might wait. The fda eua may not even allow for delivery to those people, I don’t know. 
 

but for our nuclear family, the choice is ASAP or never (I guess in theory if it’s still around and deadly years from now and the vax is as safe as any other, there’s a path of wait it out and eventually get it) and we have chosen to get it. 
 

hopefully 30-50% of the pop elects to get it, and when demand drops then we open everything up and the virus makes it’s way quickly through the rest so that we end up at herd immunity before resistance fades. 

39 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Have they added the autism causing part to the vaccine yet or are they going to release it with out it and add it in later?

Guess Hollywood has to weigh in before that happens.

1 hour ago, blacklab said:

Have they added the autism causing part to the vaccine yet or are they going to release it with out it and add it in later?

We’ll have the ask the good doctor on this one...

On 12/12/2020 at 7:54 AM, Armybrat said:

Pardon me for a brief threadjack, but what does this mean? (Colonoscopy result - I haven’t been to see my doctor yet):

DIAGNOSIS:
Transverse colon, polypectomy:
-Low grade tubular adenoma.

GROSS:
Specimen labeled transverse colon polyp is a single 0.4 cm tan-red
fragment. Entirely submitted in 1A.

 

Benign polyp removed. Return in 3-5 years for repeat colonoscopy. Although at your advanced age they may not bother to do another one.

On 12/11/2020 at 9:40 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

Why are they passing?

From what I'm seeing and hearing, there's skepticism around how quickly it's moved forward and the stronger reported side effects. 

In an interesting twist, I think the fact that it's not mandated has opened people's minds to passing on it. "Why aren't they making us take it like the flu vaccine?"

Because they're not 100% sure how things are going to work out.

Also, there's concern about depleting the workforce initially. 4% of people get febrile reaction to first Pfizer shot, 16% do to the second. If you have a fever, you're not allowed in the hospital to work and it's the busiest time of the year for elective surgical work and their post op care.

I'll be interested to hear how many tier 1 providers like ICU, ER, hospitalists etc take it. Right now it's a lot of surveys and people talking about it at work.

On 12/12/2020 at 9:31 AM, NorthLoop said:

My wife is a nurse and she's gonna get one, but she is also hesitant due to the sped up processes that this vaccine went through compared to others. It's a legitimate concern and to say otherwise is being naive. 

Agreed.  A pharmacist colleague of mine who runs vaccination clinics says he is waiting 6 months before deciding.  He says most of the MDs he works with are doing the same.  The relatively small sample size and compressed time frame make it tough to establish safety.  
I am pretty sure I am going to get it, but I am nervous.  I don’t begrudge anyone who wants to wait.

14 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

From what I'm seeing and hearing, there's skepticism around how quickly it's moved forward and the stronger reported side effects. 

In an interesting twist, I think the fact that it's not mandated has opened people's minds to passing on it. "Why aren't they making us take it like the flu vaccine?"

Because they're not 100% sure how things are going to work out.

Also, there's concern about depleting the workforce initially. 4% of people get febrile reaction to first Pfizer shot, 16% do to the second. If you have a fever, you're not allowed in the hospital to work and it's the busiest time of the year for elective surgical work and their post op care.

I'll be interested to hear how many tier 1 providers like ICU, ER, hospitalists etc take it. Right now it's a lot of surveys and people talking about it at work.

Is there a healthcare worker flu shot mandate?  It’s certainly not mandated for the general public. Few are, so a lack of mandate carries very little weight in my decision making. 
 

however, a lukewarm reception from the healthcare profession could suppress the willingness of others to get it. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Pato del Muerto

12 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Is there a healthcare worker flu shot mandate?  It’s certainly not mandated for the general public. Few are, so a lack of mandate carries very little weight in my decision making. 
 

however, a lukewarm reception from the healthcare profession could suppress the willingness of others to get it. 

There will be a mandate for healthcare workers imo.

 

Wife gets her vaccination from Texas Childrens on Friday (shes a nurse practitioner there). Meanwhile, ill prolly have to wait 3-4 months because our anesthesia group doesnt have as much buying power as the bigger hospitals/systems

30 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Is there a healthcare worker flu shot mandate?  It’s certainly not mandated for the general public. Few are, so a lack of mandate carries very little weight in my decision making. 
 

however, a lukewarm reception from the healthcare profession could suppress the willingness of others to get it. 

 

At most places the flu shot is required, but it's relatively easy to squirm out of it with an exemption if you know what to say.

I don't think many decisions have been made as to whether or not to require the Covid vaccine at most major systems. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by BradInATX

16 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

At most places the flu shot is required, but it's relatively easy to squirm out of it with an exemption if you know what to say.

I don't think many decisions have been made as to whether or not to require the Covid vaccine at most major systems. 

I work in 3 different large hospital systems. None of them are requiring it.

52 minutes ago, Druggist said:

Agreed.  A pharmacist colleague of mine who runs vaccination clinics says he is waiting 6 months before deciding.  He says most of the MDs he works with are doing the same.  The relatively small sample size and compressed time frame make it tough to establish safety.  
I am pretty sure I am going to get it, but I am nervous.  I don’t begrudge anyone who wants to wait.

I think MDs that have been treating these people have seen that the vast majority of people hospitalized are either elderly or morbidly obese. They then are looking at themselves and determining if they’re really at risk of getting very sick with it. Then weighing if they’re Ok with the vaccine and side effects on the other side. 

3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

I work in 3 different large hospital systems. None of them are requiring it.

 

That would support what I said then, would it not?

Not deciding = not requiring it. There are conversations happening but as of now nobody has decided to require. Yet.

Agreed.  A pharmacist colleague of mine who runs vaccination clinics says he is waiting 6 months before deciding.  He says most of the MDs he works with are doing the same.  The relatively small sample size and compressed time frame make it tough to establish safety.  
I am pretty sure I am going to get it, but I am nervous.  I don’t begrudge anyone who wants to wait.

How do these people work in medicine? This technology has been worked on for ten years going back to SARS. The only part that was compressed was running stage trials in parallel. Major side effects would show within two months and we're past that for most participants. The vaccine is flushed from your body in weeks only leaving the immune response. Playing cards with my sister's kids.

27 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

How do these people work in medicine? This technology has been worked on for ten years going back to SARS. The only part that was compressed was running stage trials in parallel. Major side effects would show within two months and we're past that for most participants. The vaccine is flushed from your body in weeks only leaving the immune response. Playing cards with my sister's kids.

THIS!

I guess I didn’t realize how many cowards and dumbasses we have out there.

My hospital system not requiring it.  But everyone I know is getting it and wants it.  Maybe because our hospital is up to it’s eyeballs with COVID.  

45 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

How do these people work in medicine? This technology has been worked on for ten years going back to SARS. The only part that was compressed was running stage trials in parallel. Major side effects would show within two months and we're past that for most participants. The vaccine is flushed from your body in weeks only leaving the immune response. Playing cards with my sister's kids.

And yet why have none of those vaccines ever seen the light of day?  Antibody immune enhancement has happened in *all* of the challenge studies.

So yes the outcomes are known you will not be harmed by it and your body will have robust antibody production only one of the next several covid mutations is probably going to come be your grim reaper.  Have fun with that I ain't playing that game I'll rock on with my existing immune system and if it fails me then it was my time to go.

And yet why have none of those vaccines ever seen the light of day?  Antibody immune enhancement has happened in *all* of the challenge studies.
So yes the outcomes are known you will not be harmed by it and your body will have robust antibody production only one of the next several covid mutations is probably going to come be your grim reaper.  Have fun with that I ain't playing that game I'll rock on with my existing immune system and if it fails me then it was my time to go.

You should be required to wear a helmet when you leave your house

53 minutes ago, Pimphand said:

And yet why have none of those vaccines ever seen the light of day?  Antibody immune enhancement has happened in *all* of the challenge studies.

So yes the outcomes are known you will not be harmed by it and your body will have robust antibody production only one of the next several covid mutations is probably going to come be your grim reaper.  Have fun with that I ain't playing that game I'll rock on with my existing immune system and if it fails me then it was my time to go.

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

2 hours ago, Pimphand said:

And yet why have none of those vaccines ever seen the light of day?  Antibody immune enhancement has happened in *all* of the challenge studies.
So yes the outcomes are known you will not be harmed by it and your body will have robust antibody production only one of the next several covid mutations is probably going to come be your grim reaper.  Have fun with that I ain't playing that game I'll rock on with my existing immune system and if it fails me then it was my time to go.

You should be required to wear a helmet when you leave your house

And a halved, emptied cantaloupe over his groin just to ensure people know he's serious.

Just because people work in healthcare (MDs, nurses, nurse practitioners, etc.) doesn't mean they all make logical, rational decisions about their own healthcare choices.

The MDs that work in pharma R&D are all trying to get vaccinated as soon as possible, so if those MDs or nurses working in hospital systems don't want it, there are plenty of others willing to take their place in line.

Edited December 15, 2020 by SizzleChest

What’s gonna be fucked up is if we have a lot of vax waste because of the rigorous storage requirements. 

All these people wanting to wait leads me to believe I can get this thing much quicker than March or April. Are they just going to let the vaccine go to waste waiting for someone who is “essential”? 

25 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

Just because people work in healthcare (MDs, nurses, nurse practitioners, etc.) doesn't mean they all make logical, rational decisions about their own healthcare choices.

The MDs that work in pharma R&D are all trying to get vaccinated as soon as possible, so if those MDs or nurses working in hospital systems don't want it, there are plenty of others willing to take their place in line.

They won't be able to get vaccinated in the next few weeks. There is only enough to vaccinate employees of hospitals. They are on 1A B, so the second set of the first group of eligible.

16 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

What’s gonna be fucked up is if we have a lot of vax waste because of the rigorous storage requirements. 

If they hold up distribution because the elderly in nursing homes need custodial consent, we could easily have a big problem with spoilage.

21 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

What’s gonna be fucked up is if we have a lot of vax waste because of the rigorous storage requirements. 

I thought additional stability testing was proving storage conditions(temp) could be less and less extreme. 

3 minutes ago, Bevo said:

They won't be able to get vaccinated in the next few weeks. There is only enough to vaccinate employees of hospitals. They are on 1A B, so the second set of the first group of eligible.

Rhetorical, Farley.

10 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

Rhetorical, Farley.

Yeah, but I am on the same fucking list and kind of annoyed. I am flying out on Dec. 23 with my wife who wants to see her mom and her sister. If we can't get vaccinated this week, it will be too late: It is already a little too late in that we would have to go without the booster.

45 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

What’s gonna be fucked up is if we have a lot of vax waste because of the rigorous storage requirements. 

Having two doses per person should help with this, no? Order 1000 doses.. only 700 people get it. Order 400 more for the second batch of 700.

Obviously oversimplified but it seems like it would help. I'm sure in most places they could also offer it to patients in the hospital or whatever. Probably 75% of hospital ER and OR patients have at least one comorbidity. Most of 'em got the beetus.

Edited December 15, 2020 by BradInATX

30 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I thought additional stability testing was proving storage conditions(temp) could be less and less extreme. 

Maybe, but anyone who has vaccine stored and will be at risk of it spoiling should (emphasis on should) have guidelines for who to call for re-distribution.  If cable TV companies can have a process to send you shipping boxes and supplies to return your equipment, there should be a mechanism for at-risk vaccine product to be picked up and re-distributed locally.

2 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

Maybe, but anyone who has vaccine stored and will be at risk of it spoiling should (emphasis on should) have guidelines for who to call for re-distribution.  If cable TV companies can have a process to send you shipping boxes and supplies to return your equipment, there should be a mechanism for at-risk vaccine product to be picked up and re-distributed locally.

I sure as shit hope that barring a really robust re-distribution plan, the general guideline is "well, if you're having a hard time storing it, make sure that shit gets into somebody's veins before it expires, even if it's the Amazon guy that shows up to deliver a package". But we're talking governments here, so that's unlikely.

Edited December 15, 2020 by BradInATX

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

I sure as shit hope that barring a really robust re-distribution plan, the general guideline is "well, if you're having a hard time storing it, make sure that shit gets into somebody's veins before it expires, even if it's the Amazon guy that shows up to deliver a package". But we're talking governments here, so that's unlikely.

Yeah, let's hope basic common sense exercised by well-intended humans outruns whatever bullshit corporations or governments impose.  Tall order, I know.

I can’t wait to get it. I’ll feel like a man with super powers and a 12 inch dong. I’ll wear a giant name tag that reads “vaccinated” everywhere I go with a chin diaper mask just to meet the legal requirements. I’ll also book a few flights just for fun. I cannot wait for these shackles to come off, with one exception: I really don’t want to go back to the office. That’s going to suck.

I’m middle aged and healthy, so I doubt I’ll get in the queue until this summer though. 

On 12/11/2020 at 6:40 AM, Heme Doc said:

 Also, who were the four “no” votes on the committee?  I’d like to kick them in the balls repeatedly.  
 

One was a pediatric infectious disease specialist who voted 'No' because the paperwork because it is being recommended for 16 & 17 year old's, which in her expert opinion it should not be without further testing.   Hard to argue with that. 

 

A pharmacist colleague of mine who runs vaccination clinics says he is waiting 6 months before deciding.  He says most of the MDs he works with are doing the same.

I’m a MD and most of the physicians and nurses I know seem to want it. I don’t know who your pharmacist buddy is or where he practices or what types of MDs he hangs around, but I don’t think most MDs are planning to wait 6 months to decide. There have been countless surveys issued to healthcare workers in the past week so I’m not sure what the official data shows nationwide.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

The guidance for allergies is:

Quote

Do not be  administer Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to individuals with known history of a severe allergic reaction (e.g., anaphylaxis) to any component of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine

And these are the components:

Quote

Each dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine contains

• 30 mcg of a nucleoside-modified messenger RNA (modRNA) encoding the viral spike (S) glycoprotein of SARS-CoV-2.

Each dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine also includes the following ingredients:

• lipids (0.43 mg (4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate),
• 0.05 mg 2[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]- N,N-ditetradecylacetamide,
• 0.09 mg 1,2-distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, and
• 0.2 mg cholesterol),
• 0.01 mg potassium chloride,
• 0.01 mg monobasic potassium phosphate,
• 0.36 mg sodium chloride,
• 0.07 mg dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate, and
• 6 mg sucrose.

The diluent (0.9% Sodium Chloride Injection, USP) contributes an additional 2.16 mg sodium chloride per dose.

 

So remember kids, if you are allergic to something with  ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), this vaccine is not for you.

 

I think MDs that have been treating these people have seen that the vast majority of people hospitalized are either elderly or morbidly obese. They then are looking at themselves and determining if they’re really at risk of getting very sick with it. Then weighing if they’re Ok with the vaccine and side effects on the other side. 

For many healthy people, the decision to get a vaccine holds a greater benefit to the population as a whole than it does to the individual. In some cases, the risk of contracting the actual disease or becoming severely ill from the disease may be relatively low, so the perceived risk/benefit of vaccination may not seem to be in the individual’s favor. This is a yearly problem with the flu vaccine.

Even though I am young and healthy, I personally think the risks and the unknowns of the COVID vaccine are lower than the risks and the unknowns of COVID infection.

Regardless, I am a physician who works directly with elderly and high risk patients on a daily basis, so the individual risk of vaccination is low enough for me than I am willing to accept that risk for the added protection of the patients I come in contact with. I would hope that most other healthcare providers would have a similar mindset for the sake of not only protecting our patients, but also leading the way towards vaccination of the greater population and eventually reaching heard immunity.

Pardon me for a brief threadjack, but what does this mean? (Colonoscopy result - I haven’t been to see my doctor yet):
DIAGNOSIS:
Transverse colon, polypectomy:
-Low grade tubular adenoma.
GROSS:
Specimen labeled transverse colon polyp is a single 0.4 cm tan-red
fragment. Entirely submitted in 1A.
 

On 12/12/2020 at 8:58 AM, Hpara759 said:

The wife has been hands on taking care of ICU COVID since March....every day she works ....12-13 hours a shift. Her co-workers (not all but most) have caught and recovered from it....not her, not one little symptom.... amazing!

 

Oh ... the obligatory pic of wife....

Exact same situation with my wife. Hasn’t brought it home to me either. 

The potential side effects of the vaccine, flu like symptoms, seem to be scaring some off. I spoke with a friend that had covid symptoms for 3+ weeks, and he laughs at the idea of avoiding the vaccine because of the fear of a small chance of 1-2 days of feeling unwell.

Personally I’m ok with uncertain people stepping out of the line to get the vaccine. Let’s allow people that really want it, to move up a spot(s). But I think the uncertain people should go to the back of the line. You refuse in December, your # will come up again much later next year.

On 12/12/2020 at 8:58 AM, Hpara759 said:

every day she works ....12-13 hours a shift.

Going to be a Merry Christmas in the Hpara759 family.  $$$$

Here is the FDA briefing if it hasn't been posted

https://www.fda.gov/media/144434/download

Edited December 15, 2020 by midtown