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SmokeyTheBear

Certifiably Surly
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Posts posted by SmokeyTheBear

  1. This could be cross posted to the CRT thread

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56889861

    Quote

    The Lancet analysis of data on 4.6 million pregnancies in seven countries suggests the risk for black women is 43% higher than for white women. ..... Most of the research was carried out in Sweden, Finland and Denmark, some of the few countries that gather statistics, though data from the US, UK, Canada and Norway was also used.

     

  2. What do you guys want? They absolved themselves from their sins. That makes them hungry and makes a need to build up that list of new sins to ask for forgiveness for. 

  3. Had a Qtard tell me that he was so excited for the point when Biden goes in front of the nation and pulls off his mask to show he was Trump all along. After I got over my shock of the stupidity, I asked if that meant he was a full supporter of the current administration then? He took a few seconds to think and was like, Yeah!

    😐

    • Like 1
    • Haha 4
  4. I will not buy into any idea that when taken to extremes, might be bad. I also will not buy into any idea where one anecdotal experience has a kid called an oppressor because that really means that anecdote is the mainstream. However, your anecdotal racial experience was just confusion on your part and our current systems as they are, are the best we should do, even when taken to the extremes. 

    I'm sold. 

  5. 24 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

    There has never been a better time or place for upward mobility.  The model has been proven by people of ALL shades on the pantone scale for multiple decades now.  The conditions of discrimination has never been lower.   

    I ask from page 1 to page 15 what examples anyone can show of a person today of real, substantial, and targeted discrimination today - and all I get back is 400 years of this and 400 years of that (and somehow thats a strawman construct of MINE!).  What can you/me/uncle sam do do to "ameliorate the harm"?  Haven't heard a goddamn thing yet.  Just same old regurgitative victim/savior complex.  Very productive. 

    The BLM movement comes from the recent discrimination from law enforcement. If you can't accept these types of acts as systematic discrimination then you are intentionally obtuse. 

  6. 5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

    So you're saying you won't respect the rights of the private property owner.

    If you entered my establishment where I have displayed a sign saying that guns are prohibited on the premises and you enter with one anyway, I would reasonably deem that a provocation and that you were a threat to myself and my property.

    Of course he is because what good are rights if you can't push them on everyone, cause they are my rights. 

    • Hook 'Em 1
  7. 40 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

    Gun people are so fucking weird.

    Pretty much all pathetic excuses for men who are trying to prove something. There is no justifiable reason for this legislation, especially given that this state has some of the loosest gun regulations anywhere. The ones applauding this are weak and scared and exactly who shouldn't be open carrying because they will use this for all the wrong reasons. 

    This from a gun owner and hunter whose dad was a collector yet never felt the need to leave the house with one. 

    • Hook 'Em 3
    • Like 1
  8. On 5/21/2021 at 7:32 AM, Red Five said:

    Could something like The Colbert Report even exist today? 

    He was on a podcast Smartless and actually talked about it a bit. Highly recommend a listen as it was a hilarious episode. But he point blank said that he couldn't do Colbert in the current climate. 

  9. 11 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

    I agree with you. What you are saying is reasonable and constructive. Systems and laws that are race neutral on their face, yet have a disparate impact on blacks need to be addressed like the example you brought up of different penalties for crack and powder cocaine. Same thing for the huge disparity in generational wealth, which is why I support reparations in the form of downpayment assistance so that the American dream of owning your own can be reality for those that suffered directly or from the aftereffects of redlining. What I find objectionable is that CRT, as weaponized, is designed to put Americans into 2 warring camps of oppressor/oppressed. If you are white, to be a true anti-racist "ally" it seems that you have to atone for your heritage and through a performative self-flagellation, where you are expected to say nothing good about our country, its founding or its heritage. CRT is infused with Marxism - an ideology responsible for the deaths of millions. Having your kids at a Christian school being indoctrinated by Marxist claptrap is intolerable considering the contempt Marxists have for Christianity. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa did it right. Statements and discussion of the horrors of apartheid and bringing those to justice. But the aim was reconciliation through restorative justice. That is what anti-racists should be pursuing instead, especially at a Christian school.

    1. I don't know why we are talking about Christian schools. You made the choice to indoctrinate your kids in that system so you can control that problem. 

    2. No one is asking anyone to do anything you have highlighted around atonement. That's pure projection. Maybe you need to understand why you feel that that is thrusted upon you because I view this (as a white privileged man) in that I need to adjust my worldview as it pertains to what my experience is vs those less fortunate, especially in terms of race. Then take that introspection and see if there is anything in my control that I can do to mitigate any unconscious biases in my daily life. That's it. If you do that, you are helping solve the issues. 

    We're at a weird time in our lives where we lived before the internet. Where our singular experiences were what dictated what our reality was. Now we have so much more information that highlights issues not evident in our immediate orbit. You can either ignore this new information, or take it on so it's not a problem for our children. 

  10.  

    25 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

    Damnit I said in the post you quoted it is a failure and should have been done away with decades ago. No one wants the war on drugs to end more than me.  I would legalize them all.  And spend a fraction of the money it costs treating addicts.  

    You and others here continue to say there have been and are issues, but instead of wanting to actually fix it, you just want to flippantly solve it in a half assed way by throwing money at it. As a lifelong Longhorn fan, I know that that is rarely a cure to the issue. This takes everyone in the society realizing they are all part of the same community, and that community is sick. Sick because of traditions and laws that were made by those in your closed community. When powerful rich white men make laws (which is what has happened since America became America), those structures tend to lean towards benefiting those who make the laws. And when the community sees a black man kneeling in protest of injustices, did you say "I know there injustices in his community and I applaud his bravery in making sure our society addresses it"? No, you said stand up for the flag and play ball. That little thing over and over and over, throughout all facets of life is what needs to be addressed and it takes both the individual and the institutions to fix. But instead, you advocate pushing your kids into christian right-leaning schools, and by doing so, you are ensuring that these issues remain because all they see is what you see......which is an incomplete picture. 

    • Hook 'Em 4
  11. 2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

    And plenty of the Congressional Black Caucus along with black ministers were some of the biggest supporters of enhanced penalties and lengthy sentences for heroin in the 60s and 70s and crack cocaine in the 80s and 90s.  It was destroying their communities.

    Black support for the drug war didn't just grow in New York. At the federal level, members of the newly-formed Congressional Black Caucus met with President Richard Nixon, urging him to ramp up the drug war as fast as possible. But the drug epidemic was especially bad in New York, and especially in black neighborhoods.

    "The silent black majority of Harlem and New York City felt constantly accosted by drug addicts, by pushers, by crime," said Michael Javen Fortner, a political scientist and historian from Rutgers University who recently wrote on the issue.

    https://www.wnyc.org/story/312823-black-leaders-once-championed-strict-drug-laws-they-now-seek-dismantle/

    When President Ronald Reagan signed the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 into law — the law that punished crack cocaine dealers far more harshly than powder cocaine dealers — Harlem's Rep. Charlie Rangel stood right behind Reagan. Crack dealers, many of whom were black, got harsher sentences than those who dealt powder cocaine, many of whom were white. And Congressional Black Caucus members pushed Reagan to create the Office of National Drug Control Policy.

    Then came the massive 1994 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which included longer sentences for first-time offenders. An influential group of black pastors wrote to the Congressional Black Caucus, "While we do not agree with every provision in the crime bill, we do believe and emphatically support the bill's goal to save our communities, and most importantly, our children."

    https://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/drug-laws-racism-democrats-support/

     

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/02/why-many-black-politicians-backed-the-1994-crime-bill-championed-by-the-clintons.html

     

    The war on drugs is a giant mess. And should have ended 20 years ago or more when it was obvious it was a loser.  But a whole lot of people share the blame for it.

    Cool. So should we accept that it was a failure and try to fix the mess? Or should we recoil into our safespace and say, "I'll hand you a little bit of money to make things square. Now stop bitching about your situation."

  12. 1 minute ago, Macklemore said:

    The America that I was taught to love is one where we strive for equal opportunity for everyone. Have we failed to do so for most of the existence this country. Absolutely.  That is why I have stated that systemic racism is historical fact and effects of something like redlining is still felt to this day. Also in an earlier post, I said that I would support reparations in the form of downpayment assistance/subsidies to families who suffered as a result of it. That is "legacy" systemic racism - that does not exist today. For example, I don't believe a black person that goes to UT for undergrad and law school is going to be discriminated against in law firm recruiting because of their color of skin. There is discrimination when hiring summer associates which applies to everyone - grades. There is a very angry, hateful edge to this shit and I hate how it is seemingly designed to create tribalism and resentment when racist attitudes are unacceptable to the vast, overwhelming majority of people. Where do Asians fit in this oppressor/oppressed matrix. How about Jews - persecuted for millennia and now they are an oppressor. It is construct that addresses a white boogeyman overlord pulling the strings when the fact is that this country is more diverse than it ever has been with successful people of every color and religion.

    Because we still have systems (especially in justice) that knowingly or unknowingly tilt towards impacting certain races and incomes vastly different than rich white folks.

    The drug war was an example I brought up earlier. Fair intent to get drugs off the streets but what happened was a whole generation of black males got incarcerated for minor crimes leading to a generation of black kids without fathers. You had different penalties for those who had cocaine rather than crack. White guys getting busted with pot had their hands slapped while black people with pot got max penalties (this is from personal experience). 

    This doesnt necessarily stem from some nefarious body making racist laws (it might), but it is something we need to accept and address and look to see if other parts of our lives have these imbalances. 

    • Hook 'Em 1
  13. 2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

    Because that is not how these examples are being framed.  Certainly not my brothers who son has sever learning disabilities and god damn well isn't privileged at all other than he was born into a 2 parent household  and is being told he's an "oppressor"

    And if a teacher is telling a grade student that they are an "oppressor", then yeah, fucked up. The framing of this is based on anecdotal evidence and not anything substantive to have a fit about. You are choosing to latch onto absurd hearsay rather than reality. 

  14. 1 minute ago, Macklemore said:

    The first and most important priority any parent has is to give their children the best opportunity to succeed in life. Sending your kids to a nice, private, Christian school in Houston is a good way to do it. Kids with educated parents with similar socio-economic backgrounds forming bonds with other kids and being primed to get accepted into prestigious universities, which will open doors for them the rest of their lives. There is zero problem with that and any parent that has the opportunity and means to give their child that should be commended for doing so. There is nothing more important than securing an excellent education for your kids. Paying an arm and leg in tuition for private school and making that sacrifice, you bet your ass that a lot of people would be pissed off at a CRT curriculum that is divisive and disconcerting to kids at a young age. You want to teach your kids how to be grateful for their private school and nice lifestyle - take them to volunteer at the Star of Hope or the Houston Food Bank. What I don't fucking want is some 20 something teacher to tell me that my kids and I are oppressors.

    And no one is saying that. What they are saying is, "hey kids, yall have a great life and your parents have given you what you need and more to succeed in life. Now, let me tell you about the others in this world and how your experience doesn't necessarily relate to 99% of the current human experience. And if you are white, nothing wrong with that, but you may want to know that your experience will more than likely be better than anyone elses."

    Why does that scare you? How does that take from you? Your mindset perpetuates the issues because you would rather build a bubble around yourself and your children rather than accept the obvious and work to address it. And now they will grow up oblivious to the issues because they only got a small controlled view of the world, skewed thru your fear. 

    • Hook 'Em 2
  15. 10 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

    We discuss it at home all the time.  And give thanks for all our blessings before every meal and before bed.

    What I have a problem with is assigning victim or oppressor status collectively to a group based on their skin color. One of my best friends at my kids' school is half Mexican and half Lebanese.  He has a Mexican surname and looks like a Mexican.  Fairly dark skinned.  His wife is a beautiful blonde woman with blue eyes.  Their son looks just like dad and the daughter looks just like mom.  One day the son comes home very upset.  His teacher had the class line up by race.  Whether they were white, brown, asian or black as measures of their privilege.  He had no idea what to say.  These are young kids at a Christian school.  I see no reason to separate the kids by race.  You are dividing kids when no division really exists.  These kids are not racist.  It is difficult for any kid growing up these days to be a racist.  We want it to be discussed from a biblical perspective.  That we are all created in God's image.  That Jesus was a person of color and loves us all.  Anyone can be racist because sin can arise in all of our hearts. We are brothers and sisters.

    Certainly as the kids get older, racism and the legacy it leaves until this day should be discussed.  Slavery, Jim Crow, Civil Rights leaders, etc. Got zero issue with that being taught in elementary or junior high.  

    As to material privilege, at our school all the kids are privileged in one way or the other.  We have many billionaire and multi hundred million net worth families. One of my daughter's good friends has a "party house" no one even lives at on River Oaks Boulevard.  I would say we should all be thankful for our material blessings, that someone will always have more and someone will always have less, and to be generous helping the less fortunate since Jesus taught not to store up treasures on earth, but to store up your treasures in heaven.

    Most of our parents simply do not want our kids being guilt tripped about shit they had nothing to do with and have no control over (past racism, the color of their skin, or they families' perceived wealth).

    Here is your problem: you view everything thru the lens of "your" community rather than the community at large. You want to protect your kids and send them to a school that will only teach a very narrow view of the world, surrounded by others from the same socio economic bubble. How can you teach kids that reality doesn't match your specific community, that they are privileged, if no-one in their bubble shows them that they are in a bubble? That is what I assume that teacher was trying to show them; that there are other structures out there that a majority of the human race has to deal with that your community is largely immune from. That is uncomfortable and it is obviously very uncomfortable to you. I'm a middle-aged white male who is not as privileged as you, but privileged compared to 90% of the rest of the world. And just because I benefited from the structures that we are looking to balance today, doesn't mean I'm racist. What makes you you, is understanding the disparity yet being too uncomfortable to want to address it so you stay in your privileged and closed community while yelling "class warfare" when called out. 

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