triplehorn

I want the floodgates to open. Figure it out as the water recedes. Also there's jokes about Senate GOP brows being furrowed above, but there is a difference between knowing you're perping a coverup versus perping while knowing that the general public is about to become very aware of it. GOP Senate may out-furrow anyone, but they do not want to be in the latter category. at all.

How about have Bolton just testify to the truth. In a narrow sense, that's all we should care about here. Someone's lying their asses off. Let's get it right. Cool? This neocon stuff you're bringing up in this matter is like your FISA slant on the other thread. It's as if you discovered an old house was ablaze with a family inside as you walked by on the sidewalk, and your first thought was to run call an electrician to suggest they check for knob and tube wiring in the attic. ***

Important context from the NYT article: the material was likely leaked to NYT by the WH as claimed today by Bolton's attorney: That last part I bolded? House investigations aren't ending after this impeachment for abuse and obstruction. Bolton's value as a witness for House testimony doesn't evaporate with Senate acquittal in this impeachment. That, and it reveals the WH , Barr, Pompeo, Mulvaney etc. are scared shitless about what Bolton could say.

How about this: "Mr. Bolton also said that after the president’s July phone call with the president of Ukraine, he raised with Attorney General William P. Barr his concerns about Mr. Giuliani, who was pursuing a shadow Ukraine policy encouraged by the president, and told Mr. Barr that the president had mentioned him on the call. A spokeswoman for Mr. Barr denied that he learned of the call from Mr. Bolton; the Justice Department has said he learned about it only in mid-August." Realize that as the McGahn case works it way through the courts, if it's found he can be compelled to testify, it's going to envelope all these other players avoiding House subpoenas. So we should expect the House will be having a future hearing with Bolton regardless of this impeachment trial and we'll likely be getting into a lot of other stuff that is hinted about in tonight's NYT article, i.e. the energy piece, Bill fucking Barr, and who knows what else. But man, I want to see Barr turning with a spit.

It's clear that Bolton is a huge foot in the door that opens to a whole lot of other highly problematic deals if he testifies. One of the potentially huge stories we know next to nothing about relates to Trump/Rudy clients involved in Ukraine energy. This is where Rick Perry comes in including those American energy folks sent over to get involved. Ukraine energy corruption Is where Dimitri Firtash intersects with the story. Firtash wants his US extradition case dropped (Barr) and unfettered access to Ukraine energy through corrupt means (no Yovanovitch). Trump wants to discredit the Mueller investigation (Firtash w dirt on Weissmann), discredit Biden (no Yovanovitch/Zelensky announce investigation), and likely find a side deal to get a cut of corrupt Ukraine energy profits, i.e "everyone is in the loop." However, it seems like Pompeo's role and interests likely don't align exactly with Rudy's and Trump's even though he was aware. That's why this bit about Bolton's discourse with Pompeo could be so illuminating. That Bolton/Pompeo NYT paragraph posted above offers a new new slice of the prism.

Another facet from the NYT reporting : ^^^ woah. A lot of gaping holes to fill with this one.

Yes.

Not seismic. More of a withering effect. Lying and bullshitting -convincingly -takes a toll over time. Kind of like how long it takes for public opinion to sustainably turn. Slow steady force can move huge things. Trump has been doing it from Day 1, but his severe personality disorder is like a reptilian drive. Now with this Bolton drop, the GOP Senate has entered the ring to have their endurance tested in the public eye.

We agree on it. It’s what I was getting at above. Senate GOP stepped in the box by committing to coverup in the trial and Bolton pulled the pin. How much Bolton really has it in for others, and for whom, remains to be seen. But the timing of this move is a double barrel blow impacting Trump and Senate GOP.

Why ?

Again, Bolton making his move only after Senate GOP committed to their coverup in the trial fucks them. I guess they thought he was content to sit on it and they’d deal with it down the line long after this phase was over with. Senate now stuck without any excuse for not addressing this damning direct inculpatory evidence in the trial. Cheers.

^^^ Bolton knows first hand that Trump is no Republican - that he’s a mobster using the power of his office to make personal side deals for unfettered power and profit. Bolton isn’t down with that. Seems like now he’s boxed in Senators to fold or show their true hand to the public.

Same story, different headline: What timing. It has the effect of now putting the Senate on trial. I can imagine Bolton waiting long enough to at least to see how the Senate GOP would vote on evidence and how Trump's defense would handle their turn. He may have observed the depth and scale of the coverup and decided it was better to pull the first pin and roll it right under the chairs of Senate GOP.

The wild card right now is Lev Parnas. I'm skeptical of the supposed legitimacy of the hit planned for our ambassador Yovanovitch. However, when you think about the importance to a high level Putin mobster like Firtash of having anti-corruption champion Yovanovitch offed, I can start to see how Trump could get set up as the one who ordered it using an iPhone recording by Fruman and Parnas. Firtash/Putin would be the ones able to pull it off, then threaten to pin it on Donald. Recall that weird American dude supposedly involved in tracking Yovanovitch's movements who Parnas laughed off and said was maintenance boozer? He wasn't a killer, rather potential patsy. With their demonstrated recording abilities used on our own POTUS, Parnas likely has enough to detonate Trump and any number of notable GOP into orbit. Parnas to Maddow: "Everyone is in the loop." But Parnas and his bosses would rather use that leverage to protect their own interests. And with a deal from Trump/Barr, Parnas would likely be a good soldier and go to prison for a few years with his current light and limited charges in exchange later for a handsome reward for protecting his billionaire employers from further sanctions and international isolation, if not prison.

There's every reason to believe they will. There are 6 House committees involved in the impeachment inquiry. Intel and Judiciary moved on the Ukraine whistleblower case out of real urgency. Ukraine president Zelensky was booked to make a statement about opening an investigation into the Biden family in a CNN interview when the news broke about Trump's 'perfect' call. Some evidence won't incrementally increase until this summer, like Trump tax returns and Deutsche Bank financials related to the House investigation into Trump money laundering. Other matters like the Mueller grand jury materials and compelling former WH counsel McGahn, and hence others, to testify amidst bogus claims of "absolute immunity" could be on deck: Pelosi has this set up as a drawn out match between a rat and a boa.

he should know his material backwards and forwards and expect it before their lips move. instead he pulled a "i'm rubber and you're glue" number. just awful.

He didn't go with her estimate. But then he had nothing, got defensive, and sounded like kind of a jerk. it was a cringe inducing fail.

He wasn't asked about the actual to the nickel costs. He was asked about $60 Trillion over 10 years. We'll cut him some slack for being off by a few "nickels". he'll get it pushed in with more answers like that. wow.

His answer to this interview question. woah.

Lordy.

What the tapes do is indisputably and directly tie Trump to Parnas and the Ukraine scheme, and underpinnings of his ongoing impeachment. He’s obviously lying his ass off about it. His lying about it is now indisputable. Parnas is a mobster under indictment and is tied to a lot of cash funneled into GOP coffers. God only knows what oligarch mobster is his boss, and how disposable Trump is to them in the big picture. We’ve only learned about the tip of fecal iceberg and now there’s no denying it goes straight through Trump. GOP complicitly covers up at their own peril. It’s only going to get worse.

For Senate GOP, the worst thing about the timing of these new smoking gun tapes is that right now they are still in a position to do something in this phase of impeachment. They can't say later "if I'd only known then what I know now" or some BS (as if its not open and shut already). And as evidence and revelations continue to flow forth in coming weeks and months, their complicit, derelict, and reprobate conduct will be exposed all the worse.

Trump going all in that he has no idea who Lev Parnas is, none.

Congress can re-legislate to scuttle citizens united and to reform campaign finance. That's the common denominator of where we are today. Vote accordingly.