wild_turkey

Half-measures are better than zero measures. One person firing a BB at a tank won’t do anything. The internet tells me a metal BB has a mass of about 0.35 grams and an M1 Abrams tank is about 65,000 kg. If all 332 million people in the U.S. fired a BB at the tank at the same time, it would be a collective total mass of 116,000 kg striking the 65,000 kg tank. There’s a quote to the effect of “We don’t need a few people to do this perfectly, we need everyone to do it imperfectly.”

Double post.

Christmas and other holidays My wife wanted some Halloween yard decorations, like plastic skeletons and shit, and I talked her out of it because I didn't want to purchase a bunch of new plastic shit that we don't really need. I do like many of the Halloween decorations in our neighborhood, but it makes me uneasy buying 4 plastic skeletons and thinking about what will happen to them in a few years when we tire of them. I suppose we could bury the poor bastards. Christmas is upon us, which is my personal favorite holiday. We decorate the house and yard, and that includes lights, some of which are incadescent. We already have the lights. If the incadescent bulbs wear out, we'll probably buy LED next time around. I wonder if Christmas lights will be a thing in ~50 years, and I hope we've innovated and engineered our way to allow those types of simple pleasures. If our energy capabilities can't sustain that, then there's a lot of other things on the chopping block that also bring joy to people. How do we feel about real trees vs. artificial? I don't have any idea the balance on this one. I like real trees but my allergies have likely relegated me to the land of artificial trees for life. Wrapping paper feels like a humongous waste. I wish everyone could agree that newspaper is sufficient, or come up with a better system for reusable gift bags for gifts of every occasion. I suspect wrapping paper will eventually be a relic of the past.

I think Inka was on your side, supporting your rebuttal of BamaATL’s post.

I have a United Mileage Plus Visa card through Chase. My wife is not an AU on the account. They sent me an email to refer a friend and we each get 10,000 bonus miles, plus the friend still qualifies for a signup bonus. Any reason I can’t refer my wife for this offer?

Regarding EVs, this seems like a pretty good article on their life cycle carbon impact: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/07/electric-cars-have-much-lower-life-cycle-emissions-new-study-confirms/ And they link the white paper that it is based on: https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/Global-LCA-passenger-cars-jul2021_0.pdf One potential criticism would be that they are merely looking at the carbon emissions aspect, and not taking into account other environmental, health, and geopolitical factors associated with battery mining. While that could certainly be true, no reasonable person can claim with a straight face that the O&G industry has ever been good in any of those departments.

Yep, those get thrown away in my house. If I can easily rinse and recycle it, I do so. If I can’t easily rinse it, straight to the trash. With things like peanut butter, well with most things with a long shelf life actually, I try to buy the largest possible size. At least that way, the surface area (packaging) to volume (consumable product) is lower.

Off the top of my head, I suspect you are right, that keeping your perfectly good cars would be the better environmental decision for right now. The math may work out differently if you drove 30k miles per year, or if you drove an F250 or Escalade that guzzles gas. I really don’t know how the average person can do that calculus to make informed decisions. Thinking forward, there may come a point where you need to replace them, hand them down to a kid, etc. Then maybe, depending on the EV situation in 5-10 years, it’s time to switch?

I certainly agree with your second point about keeping older vehicles longer. Ideally, everyone would do that. The reality is that vehicles do eventually wear out and need replacing, or we have new drivers on the road getting a car for the first time. Regardless, vehicles are being produced and sold, so it’s worth asking which technology is truly better for the future of the planet. Your first point however, is a gross stereotype that you have formed about the typical EV owner, which has nothing to do with the validity of the technology itself. There’s another one a few posts above, so in this thread so far, we have the following criticisms of EVs: -Most EV owners are blathering idiots -Most Tesla drivers commute an hour each way Come on guys, you can do better than that. Both of those comments would also suggest that ICE drivers do not have long commutes and that ICE drivers are not blathering idiots, which is obviously absurd. Your perceived personality traits of a person using a technology should not even be in the discussion about the merits of the actual technology.

Also, what data do you or any of us have that validates the idea that an EV powered by coal is worse than an ICE? It’s easy to say that and criticize your neighbor for their choice, but do you really know that to be true? If we think about the life cycle of a Tesla Model 3 vs. a Honda Accord, what is the total impact of each? The Honda accord is pretty straightforward because it’s always using the same basic gasoline. The impact of the Tesla could vary based on the owner’s electricity source. Would an entirely solar powered Tesla be better than the Honda over its life? Would an entirely coal powered Tesla be worse? If the latter is true, then do we have even a rough idea of the break-even point?

What if your neighbors had solar panels and charged their EVs from solar? Or what about people who choose to pay a higher rate for an energy provider that claims to use 100% renewable energy? I’m honestly curious why your criticism is directed at the owner of the EV and not at the coal power plant. We obviously need to eliminate coal power plants.

I watched that first YouTube clip that’s critical of EVs. I don’t know if I take the guy seriously and I don’t know his credentials or political leanings, but I think his criticisms are similar to many EV opponents. His first big criticism is that EVs aren’t charging with clean energy and are instead using predominantly fossil fuels. I share that concern, but I don’t think that’s a flaw in EV technology at all. That’s a problem with our energy sources, which is a huge separate topic. Simply put, I think we need EVs coupled with nuclear power, or greatly expanded clean energy in its various formats. But the issue to me is that EV technology could be a tremendous step forward if the electricity sources will follow suit. Maybe it’s worth putting the cart in front of the horse here. The same could not be said about ICE vehicles. They are by definition burning fossil fuels and will always be burning fossil fuels, and to commit to them out of fear of change is basically signing our own death sentence. We know exactly where that road will lead. His second concern is about sourcing the lithium and other minerals to produce the batteries. Also a valid concern, but he presents no data, which makes this merely a talking point lacking evidence. And as I mentioned above, potentially new sources for these minerals (such as the Salton Sea) will become available to help that obstacle.

The link to the Plastic in the Environment thread posted above covers a lot of that, and yes, some stuff gets shipped to Asia and dumped in the ocean, but recycling isn’t entirely a scam. Someone posted another link in the Climate thread (CR) that had some videos about recycling specifically in Austin. It goes into pretty good detail about how it works for Austin and what can actually be recycled. There’s a lot of good recycling that does occur in most major cities, but as I mentioned, cities have done a terrible job at educating residents. The fact that you and many other people think it’s a scam is a problem, because then you become apathetic and don’t even try to recycle. And then you also have people who recycle a bunch of shit that can’t be recycled, and it messes up the system and reduces efficiency.

Well that could be true, but to what extent do we know that to be true? I also think the concerns about battery production and mineral mining get a little bit overplayed by EV opponents, i.e. the O&G industry. However, there is little transparency on this point, so people are left to form their own opinions. If you have some good links, please share. And FWIW, the Salton Sea in California apparently has enough lithium to produce millions of EVs. If that production becomes operational and gets scaled up, it could entirely eliminate our need to get lithium elsewhere.

Travel I love to travel. It's an addiction that would be hard for me to give up, and I know that air travel in particular has a major carbon footprint. So what happens when I purchase carbon offsets from the airline? Is that truly a good thing to do? Are they donating my $10 to a reliable cause like planting mangrove trees, or are they simply wasting it? Is there a better way to purchase carbon offsets on my own from a 3rd party independent from the airline? I guess the ideal thing would be to travel less, or not at all, or at least not anywhere that I can't go by driving an EV that charges from solar, or perhaps in a sailboat. But given that it's unlikely to happen, what are some practical measures a travel addict can take to offset their carbon footprint? I'd rather not settle for faux solutions that merely assuage guilt, but actual tangible measures with proven results.

Electric vehicles They clearly seem to be the direction of the auto industry, which I personally support. My wife has a Tesla which is our primary vehicle. I have a 4Runner, admittedly not fuel efficient, but luckily it only gets used for ~30 miles a week. One thing I wonder about the EV industry is the life cycle impact of a vehicle. Sure, using electricity is better than gasoline, probably even if the electricity source is dirty energy like coal, and a much better difference for people who can use clean energy. But how much good data is available to consumers on the impact of producing EVs (especially the batteries) and disposing of old EVs at the end-of-life? That isn't nothing. I blindly trust that the EV is still the better decision, but can someone share reliable data for this? If we compare a Tesla 3 to a Honda Accord, over the life of the vehicles, including all production costs, energy, maintenance parts, etc...what is the expected environmental impact of each?

Recycling This could easily be its own thread, but we'll try it here. I think most cities do a terrible job at educating residents on recycling. See my comments above about plastic. I'm shocked at how few of my friends even attempt to recycle, and with those that do, it seems like there is significant confusion or even lack of effort to get it straight. Also recycling capabilities and procedures vary by city, so the resident has to make some effort to know what can be done. My city (Fort Worth) has a website to help, but even that website gives vague instructions. I tried to clarify if #5 plastic (yogurt and other food containers) can be recycled and they referred me to the website, which doesn't say specifically which plastics do. So, should I buy that yogurt or not? More importantly, why is almost every yogurt in a #5 plastic container when it seems recycling of #1 and #2 plastic is more ubiquitous? What about recycling other things like batteries, old electronics, running shoes that you no longer use, garden hoses, scrap metal, etc? I run quite a bit so I go through shoes fairly quickly. They're still in okay condition for wearing around but beyond their mileage limits for actual running. So they get converted to yard shoes, except that I have way too many retired running yard shoes, so they get ?thrown away? That doesn't feel right. I'm not sure they're actually good enough for Goodwill, but I did find several services that will take them, including this one: https://gotsneakers.com/ I guess the point is, I'm trying to become more conscious about how I actually dispose of things. If it doesn't easily fit in the blue bin, and doesn't easily go to Goodwill, there may be other good options for stuff besides just throwing it away.

Single use plastic I think most reasonable people who are not climate change deniers would agree that single use plastic is bad for the climate and the planet. Plastic obviously has its positives, but it may also be one of the worst things we've ever done to this planet. There's plastic in the clouds, plastic in the Mariana Trench, the ocean is full of plastic, our bodies have microplastics in them. It's disgusting. It's been discussed throughout this site and I started an older thread about plastic in the environment here: I still think it's a bit complicated when it comes to purchasing decisions, and I think much of this is intentional on the part of industry. For instance, I know that #1 plastic can be recycled in my city, and I trust that when I put it in the blue bin, it gets recycled. If this is actually true, then would I be better off buying orange juice in a plastic bottle or a paper carton? The #1 plastic bottle seems recyclable according to most sources, whereas the paper carton has a plastic liner that seems to complicate it's recycleability. Or suppose someone wants a Coke, and their choice is the bottle that claims to be 100% recycled already vs. the aluminum can. We know the can is recycleable, but what about the energy and resources required to create it in the first place? How significant is that, and is it possible that the aluminum can could actually be the worse for the environment? These types of dilemmas arise with many purchasing decisions, so it's often difficult for the consumer to choose. I personally don't always know the answer, hence the reason I think a thread like this would be useful for discussion and education. I think it's easy to do simple things like taking reusable bags to the store. If I forget my bags at Target, they'll put my groceries in 15 different plastic bags. Sometimes individual bags for individual items, like the eggs and bread couldn't coexist. I'm surprised that's still commonplace in 2023, but here we are. I'm interested in ideas to reduce plastic in other areas. One of our friends uses a business called a "refillery" that will refill common household items like detergent, dish soap, shampoo, etc into reusable containers. It seems like a great idea, but there isn't one in our city. Maybe Whole Foods does something similar? Central Market does not.

I think we need a general thread on sustainability where we can discuss topics related to sustainable living. I'm mostly interested in lifestyle decisions and behaviors that we as individuals can make, rather than discussing bigger topics like public policy. Here are some specific topics that come to mind: Single use plastic Recycling Electric vehicles Internet shopping and food delivery services Lawn, gardening, and composting Home energy demand General purchasing decisions Travel ??? There is a wealth of information spread amongst surly posters, and some collaboration would be productive. Perhaps some positive encouragement or accountability would even be possible? I'm just spitballing a little bit, but anything we could do to help educate and guide each other towards a more sustainable lifestyle. I'll put some of my initial thoughts in separate posts to make it easier to quote without creating a huge wall of text up front. Thanks in advance for those of you who wish to join the discussion.

Planting a pecan is like telling someone you hate them. They are horrible trees to have near your house.

Maybe a new live plant for your house? Something nice that she could look at, like a redbud, Japanese maple, or crepe myrtle. Or maybe get some pansies or other winter flowers planted. Or a fiddle fig or something similar indoors. You live in the FW area I think, so you could do tickets to Bass Hall or Casa Manana. Or take her to the Botanic Garden Lightscape if she can get around that much. What does she do for personal enjoyment? Reading? TV or movies? Cooking?

I always lean in the direction of experiences and think a weekend getaway, concert tickets, or some other kind of performing arts tickets are good. Since you live in LA, there must be an overwhelming amount of things to do at all times. Are there any cool things that you’ve somehow managed to skip over in all these years? Maybe an annual event or holiday themed activity that you’ve never done? If nothing else, pick a nice hotel for a night, book her a session at the spa, and pick a new to you restaurant.

I remember that time in 2008 when a 1-loss Texas got left out while a team we beat played in the NC game, and how we all were super chill about it and just shrugged our shoulders and said “that sort of sucked.”

I love that aggy was desperate enough to hire Bobby Petrino and they have 5-4 to show for it. Maybe next year they can get Art Briles and improve to 6-3.

Love that OU lost but they got robbed on that blatant PI no-call right in front of the ref.