Lloyd Christmas

Awesome. I love seeing a guy who can barely read get a degree. We need more people like him

Still have my doubts he has learned to read full sentences yet though. But that is good he went and completed that degree at least. Marshall was no genius, doesnt take away from Young. Coupla guys who might be as intelligent as jello. But good football players.

No doubt, I would be grateful for his efforts too. I am not trying to bother you about him at all. lol Again I was responding to scholz' comment about Marshall being stupid and still qualifying at OU. He brought it up, not me. Not my fault you take offense to my observation. It seems you are the one who missed the point here. Maybe you should pay more attention before getting triggered by someone who wasnt even talking to you.

Tell that to scholz who brought that up. I was just exclaiming my surprise how Young was able to survive academically after he brought up Marshall. And the fact that you dont like it only makes it better for me. Thanks.

Makes me wonder how Vince Young lasted more than 2 weeks in Austin.

It happens a lot more than you might care to admit.

Yep. Didnt care to. Dont think the acronym means enough to me to spend time trying to figure out what it is. I made it this long without knowing what it is, i'll be fine. Some matchups move the needle more than others. Acc is very viable actually, more so than the big 12 as of today IMO. But that's something I believe the big 12 can overcome much more likely than overcoming the ground they lost to the big 10 and sec. Unless miami and fsu pick things back up and get elite again, then i think we'd be harder pressed to be at their level. Considering they have two recent national championships against the sec champions. Really the only P5 conference with less juice than the Big 12 is the PAC 12. I said that osu is the 2nd best thing the big 12 has had in the last 10 years. But my point is that is still pretty relevant when you compare them to ok state of the gundy era, which started in 2005. Both florida and lsu have achieved significantly more success than Osu. And i was comparing Osu (a 2nd tier big 12 team) to the 2nd tier of teams of the sec, of which I believe florida and lsu are. Trying to compare the osu of the gundy era to the 2nd tier sec teams of the same time frame (starting in 2005). I was making the 10 year or roundabout decade time frame for the big 12 is dead argument. the argument of comparing our Ok state to the 2nd tier of sec teams is during gundy's tenure. And during that time both lsu and florida have won 1 or more national championships.

Maybe I missed the UNL memo because i have never heard of the acronym before. not trying to be 12 or a sock. Just being honest.

Sure it's nice to have all those wins. But my point is those weren't big wins, so without a lot of meaning. Boise state has won a ton of games since 2000, but they were mostly meaningless wins that didnt do a lot for their program. The fiesta bowl was huge though. The point is for osu very few big wins. It's nothing to get mad about, it is what it is. You couldn't even name the best 5 wins of the mullet's era. What's hilarious is the lack of big signature wins for osu, its mostly a bunch of conference victories while its reputation was in the gutter. A bunch of conference victories that only translated to one big 12 championship and 1 BCS victory in 12 seasons. Compared Osu's 1 conference championship and 1 bcs victory to Lsu- 2 national title appearances, 1 national championship, 1 bcs bowl win, and 2 sec championships. to florida having two national titles, and an additional bcs victory, and 6 visits to the sec championship game, I would say osu does not stand to compare equally to florida or lsu. georgia- had always been that 2nd tier team for a long time too. 1 playoff win, 1 bcs win and, 4 visits to the sec championship game, and 1 sec championship Mississippi- similar to them actually with the same number of bcs bowl wins except they completely embarrassed osu in the sugar bowl a few years ago. Sure they are cheating fucks too though, but i would say osu is maybe about what a mississippi is. Now that I think more about it mississippi state is more of a 3rd tier team in the sec. So maybe osu could be compared to a lower end 2nd tier sec team instead. And osu is the 2nd best thing the big 12 has had over the last 10 years.

YEah you will, the way texas is recruiting now its gonna get better on draft day. And OU is finally getting them too. It started after Riley's recruiting approaches took over for how Stoops did it. Those are the kind of guys the big 12 needs to win, because when the best the big 12 has to offer plays those guys, they dont tend to win all the time. We have to get back to getting those dogs we used all be getting in the early 00s. Money cant be all that matters. They'll make 100 million+ a year no matter what conference they are in. With all the money being spread around, everyone gets rich (well the universities, not like this money goes to any of us or the players). Talking a difference of a few million a year between this conference and that, when OU and UT both make north of 150 million in revenue. If its a money grab then get more competitive and get an even bigger tv contract.

Sec and Big 10 didnt lose a beat, we dropped off a while ago. You think we can make up nearly a decade of ground on them in a short time? I concede it can happen, but bama isnt going away, uga is recruiting like crazy. And so is ohio state, psu and michigan arent going away. Gonna be a tough road but we can. Uhh yeah. What are osu's best 5 wins of the gundy era? Let's see his two bedlam wins in 11 and 14? Uga in 09? Maybe the fiesta bowl vs stanford in '12? That's the best I can think of but maybe you can do better. So a total of 1 BCS win and 0 big 12 championship game wins. In fact, they lost to OU in a de facto ccg. Even with a bedlam loss in '11 they'd have still won the big 12 so it wasnt a terribly meaningful victory like the 2015 would have been. But you know what, no, it was a big time win for you guys. But how meaningful? It didnt secure anything you didnt already have except bragging rights. Yeah the sec has four more teams, but they have more quality depth at the 2nd tier and lower level teams. Their worst team last year was tennessee and i'm sure they would have pasted kansas. Though we did have some decent play in the mid level teeams this year. Glad you brought up FLorida. Florida hasnt done a lot since meyer left but they have played for the sec championship in 2015 and 2016 so they havent fallen off the face of the earth quite yet. They still recruit well too so they can rebound pretty quick unlike our basement dwellers who are there year after year never ruffling too many feathers. Yeah id say Osu and Tcu recently have been better than tenn, ark and s.carolina. Though usc did go 9-3 last year. But those arent sec 2nd tier teams. Those are like the third tier teams. Compare Osu and Tcu to the 2nd tier sec teams like Lsu, Mississippi or a msu on a year to year basis. historically i'd say georgia is a 2nd tier team too but last year they took it up a level. the sec is run by alabama and whoever the 2nd best team is that year.

Still dont know what it is.

Well at this point they have lost so much ground to the big 10 and sec, that the best they could do is get up to an even point with them. Yeah a decade ago the big 12 was great, in fact they had 3 top 5 teams in the big 12 south. we seemed to always have that third real good team to give us balance. Now it's just OU and occasionally a tcu or osu will win some games and give us a run for our money. When tx is back it will help but now the sec and big 10 have stellar top 2-3 teams and we will be lucky to be considered equal. We can do it i guess but it will take a lot of winning to earn that reputation back. right now we are the conference who had 0 teams in a year ago and sec got in two this year. We have to defeat this perception with real results

That's fine, i am not trying to change your opinion. But i have my concerns that elite recruits and nfl scouts arent on the same page with you in regard to that. Tell me you are cool with seeing a garbage pile like aggy getting recruits that should be in austin and norman by carrying the sec flag? It will be a fun non-con for sure, and Ou has a chance to win a bunch of games. And hey you never know, this could be the year that the sec has nobody in the playoffs.

Nothing is set in stone, but they certainly seem to want to leave after the GOR expires. Patient for 7 seasons sure from this point, but that doesnt account for having to be patient for the previous 8 seasons as well. That would be a total of 15 years of patience you are asking for. I dont know what UNL is. Cause I didnt just wake up today with this thought in my head. It's years in the making. Not obsessed at all. It's just an issue for which my opinion hasnt changed since the realignments of 2010. That's consistency.

I am not sure what that matters, it's just an opinion. And I am sure no matter which conference I'd prefer you will find a way nitpick it. There's what conference I'd prefer to go into as of right now, and then there's a whole different situation in 2025. I have no clue what will happen, how other conference will shake up. That will go a long way in considerations. But if it expired today I would be happy to see OU at least at either pac, big 10 or sec. I suspect lots of changes would have to happen for that to come to fruition; probably looking at 16 team super conferences at that point. I have also read about a suggestion that big 12 and acc could cooperate for scheduling purposes. And i am not opposed to the big 12 taking 2 more teams from existing P5 conferences. if it were up to me i'd love to dismiss wvu, and pick up nebraska, aggy and arkansas to keep it regional. Definitely keep Ou and tx together or at the very least guarantee a RRR matchup as a noncon. I am open to many possibilities except the situation we are in today. Possibly but there is a perception that the nfl considers sec talent to be more nfl ready. You have to know that coaches are showing draft results to recruits and it's making an impact. And all you needto do is look at recruiting rankings to see where that road leads. or you can just look at the fact that 9 of the last 12 national champions are sec. I hate them as much as the next person but they are doing something right. Or they're, from top to bottom the best cheating conference in history. Which is possible too.

Uhh man i didnt say it's the conferences fault OU lost those games. I said its the collective fault of the rest of the big 12 that OU is the only good team in the damn conference. Did you even read my post? National titles is just one facet of it. sec has multiple teams winning titles, the big 12 has one team vying for it. That's what's shitty. auburn, lsu, bama and florida all have won recently. Georgia just played for one. The only team who has won for us is texas, and OU is the only team who has even competed for one in the past decade. I am not a sooner in this context, i am an outside observer, observing that the big 12 stinks. It doesnt matter that i am an OU fan, my fanhood doesnt change the facts man. this conference stinks. Because I want to see better football. i want to see my team play better teams. i want to see other big 12 teams actually being competitive and winning big games. I dont want OU to be the only conference team who is good enough to win some playoff games. I want to see better talent in this conference and i want to see more big 12 players in the nfl. I want this conference to have a bigger impact. At the end of the day it cant hurt OU. But its so much more than how it affects OU though.

You just crowed about wins, so I brought up another team with a shitloaod of mostly meaningless wins, just like osu. osu has a shitload of meaningless wins. A few good ones though, but most of 'em were meaningless. But hey they were good in 2011 when they lost the most meaningful game probably in the history of the program (had they beaten iowa state, who knows what would have happened). They havent been keeping up because there has been little parity. OU has dominated the conference winning it 10 of the last 17 seasons. They have been good, sure, competitive most years, sure. But not giving OU much competition.Look at the head to head results of OU vs every big 12 team for in the Stoops era. It's like they are the only ones trying. At the top we have OU and historically texas. sec has alabama and georgia at the top right now. Who is their next tier down? Auburn, lsu, florida, mississippi. Compare tcu, osu, wvu, and who , tech? And who do we compare tennessee, s. carolina, and arkansas to? kstate, kansas, baylor? I mean hell their 2nd tier teams keep up nicely and even occasionally win a national title. Ours well, lol, it is what it is.

It's the collective fault of the remaining members of the big 12 that OU is the only one who has been able to be consistently any good. They are the only team with double digit wins 15 times since 2000. Tell me how the vaunted SOS has helped the big 12? It sure as hell didnt do shit for the draft. sec dominated the draft. Recruiting? Nope, we still have 3 in the top 25 and the sec has 9. Who in the hell out there is crowing the big 12 other than some of you on this board? NFL scouts and elite recruits have been spurning the big 12. We get godo talent, but the elite talent is going elsewhere. It's why when our good talent faces their elite talent, we lose. Ou is the best thing this conference has had in a decade and they cant get over the hump. That's a condemnation of how bad the big 12 has fallen. Yes it's a shitty conference despite the fact that OU remains consistently good. And yes i do care about OU. You just dont seem to understand that i am allowed to dislike a shitty conference and still like my team.

1. I never said i dont care about OU. Ugh. I said my thoughts on OU are unrelated to my thoughts on this conference. So you assumed not rationality, you assumed stupidity. I have the ability to keep my feelings about Ou and the Big 12 separate. Is that so hard to understand? 2. I repeat, my thoughts on the big 12 have nothing to do with OU.

Ah, and lets examine how many big 12 championships they have in the past decade. How many trips to the playoffs they've had, and how many NY6 bowls they've won. Yeah, flash in the pan is right. But sure they have won some games, so has Boise state. They arent winning the RIGHT ones though. It's more fun to win the right ones. Of course tx being down has been a problem, and the fact that osu cant keep up isnt helping either. Our 2nd tier teams arent as good as their 2nd tier teams. And yes, at the same time if tx being down and lil bro not pulling their weight has been a problem, then surely so it has been a problem to see the conference's best team get beat in the playoffs. At least one of our programs is actually trying though. Yes it is. There is the perception of the big 12, which is shitty. then the actual results, which, again, shitty. There's a reason why the big 12 has had 1 natty since 2000 and that acc, big 10 and sec have the last 12 of them.

I never said it was a problem for me. Why do my feelings have to be related to OU? This has nothing to do with OU at all except for the fact that OU is in the big 12. I could be a fan of any other team and still think the conference sucks. Do you live under a rock? You act like only OU fans think the big 12 is a a trash heap. News alert, it's not. I dont even know who OU is playing in 2019 much less what the specifics of the plans they have for when the GOR expires. I would guess off the top of my head both OU and texas are gone, and probably kansas too. Most of the 2nd tier programs would prefer to stick with the big 12, but Ou and tx can write their own ticket because they could go to almost any conference they want. have you guys not been paying attention for the past few years? Sure it's quieted down because the GOR expiration is so far away, but they have been trying to make changes to this conference for the past 8 years. Both Ou and tx nearly left in 2010 and we nearly added 2 more teams last year. Things in the big 12 are in a state of flux. we have plenty of time to right the ship and a lot can change but as things are now, this shitty ass conference isnt moving the needle where it matters most.

I never said any of that. If you want to know how lots of folks feel about programs, you can look at their rankings, which is comprised of a bunch of people who watch football games and pay attention to the landscape of the sport. Of course we also have the results on the field as indicators as well. I think the proof is in the pudding if things like winning, rankings, recruiting, and putting players into the nfl give any indication how people feel about a particular program. Not ignoring facts. OU had the #2 sos. So what? They also played ohio state and georgia. think that helped? Can you list the SOS of all 10 teams and compare them to the 14 sec teams? or will that prove you wrong so you wont do it?

It's about this being a shitty conference. what else would it be about? When the GOR expires, there will be a mass exodus from the big 12. i dont care about any of those teams who left the big 12. or rivalries with them.

You'd be better comparing the SOS of all sec and all big 12 teams instead of just a few handpicked choices here. Final rankings would more tell the story of the conferences and we had 3 and they had 5 in the final top 25. They also had two in the playoffs and won the whole things. You are swimming upstream if you actually think we play better football in the big 12. Very few if anyone at all agrees with that. Frankly I am surprised you havent used the ignore feature. Guess that's on you. The big 12 perception problem is that they only have one marquee program. the lil bros have never been able to be consistent, just an occasional flash in the pan. That hasnt helped the reputation at all. Big 12 wouldnt even be a viable conference anymore if OU hadn't had a resurgence in 2015. I never complained about the conference " dragging us down". OU does just fine obviously. But since OU is in this conference, I care more about it than i do any other conference. I am not blind to the problems it faces and the perceptions that have been attributed to it. I Never once ever said that the big 12 is hurting OU. Why do you think I said that? And can you quote that post where I did? Thanks. I said the big 12 isnt all that good, and suffers from a low reputation. The conference is a dumpster fire. it does not mean OU is in trouble. The conference is though.