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Everything posted by TreatyOak
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What's the over/under on this conversation taking place last Thursday night? "I've been running this goddamn camp for 52 years and no one knows this goddamn excuse ofr a river better than me. There ain't going to be no goddamn flood. I'm gonna finish this goodamn bottle and hit the bunk."
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I'm hearing from trusted sources that things weren't quite as reverent and Godly with the owners of Camp Mystic as their reputation would have us believe. Apparently, there was a major falling out that has split the family into two factions. For the last ten years, they have been spending a fortune in lawsuits against each other. This has quite possibly put a major strain on their finances and may be partly responsible for the shortcomings they experienced when time was critical last week.
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100% this. Makes Camp Mystic's leadership even more culpable.
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Dalton Rice, the Kerrville city manager, said he had gone jogging around 3:30 or 4 a.m., but where he was, on the city’s walking trail along the Guadalupe, “there was very light rain” and “we did not see any signs of the river rising.” Apparently, it's still 1885 in Kerrville, where a city official can only react to something he can see with his own two eyes. “This came at night when people were asleep, in bed,” Kerrville’s mayor, Joe Herring Jr., said at a news conference. He later told CNN that he had not received the weather alert and was not awakened until 5:30 a.m. Your local tax dollars at work. The county does have access to a private system known as CodeRED that sends out alerts to residents’ phones, but it is not clear to what extent it was used. At 4:22 a.m., a firefighter asked on an emergency channel if there was “any way we can send a CodeRED out” to residents in the town of Hunt, where Camp Mystic and the Presbyterian camp are located, “asking them to find higher ground or stay home,” according to a report by Texas Public Radio. But it appears that the first CodeRED did not go out for about an hour. Louis Kocurek, a resident of the town of Center Point, told The Times that the CodeRED text message he received had come in at 10:07 a.m. There is a theory that small towns suck because the young, smart people figure out what is going on and GTFO as soon as possible.
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@immamac I know this isn’t probably the best time right now and tensions are currently very high on this thread, but I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that the Fyre Brand including the email lists, merchandise, hotel partnerships, social media sites and w everything else are currently on eBay for auction. @South Austin said he would gladly handle the legal work. Or at least that’s something he might have said.
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A few of the camps were shut down BEFORE the storm. One called their session early and sent the campers all the way home. Their people were on the ball. The people who ran Camp Mystic - not so much. Mystic was the only camp to lose campers. They died because the wrong people were in charge. As someone wrote, at a minimum, they could have moved the little kids to the big girls cabins on the hill.
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We know exactly what Kerr County did during the flash flood 'cause they told us. The city manager said in his press conference that he went for a run at 3:30am. You know...standard emergency protocol.
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What annoys me is all the people on Facebook referring to the owner of the camp as a heroe*. If he was the leader of a camp where my child was killed 'cause they didn't evacuate in time, I would be using a few other words to describe him. The surviving owner can say whatever they want about not being warned, but I am guessing the lawyers for the families will uncover what really went down. * We have a lot of uneducated morons in this country.
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It appears there were systemic failures at many levels. As many have written here, I think they were killed by complacency, which is odd considering the area is called, "Flash Flood Alley." The town of Comfort had sirens and they were able to evacuate everyone in time. However, Comfort was further down the river, so people had more of a chance of advance warning. There is a report that parents will be getting the camp letters from their now-deceased children in the mail this week.
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Thanks for being a First Responder. Perhaps our disagreement is over semantics, but IMHO, any school, club, organization, camp, etc., that takes care of large numbers of people should have their own plan for evacuation. If experts can evaluate and correct it, all the better, but surely any plan is better than no plan. As we all know from the The Station night club fire in Rhode Island, disaster happens in seconds. Love to hear your thoughts.
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Timeline now showing 22 warnings were issued from Thursday afternoon at 1pm through Friday afternoon. The city manager dude saw the alerts but apparently made no effort to alert anyone in any way. He did go for a run...at 3:30am. You know, normal emergency protocol. I'm amazed that people are defending the camp morons. They're calling the owner a 'heroe' (popular Facebook spelling) for dying while trying to save girls. This idiot either ignored the flash-flood warnings starting at 1pm on Thursday, including the evacuation warning at 1am on Friday, or he didn't receive the warnings. Either way, he is 100% culpable. It's weird. It's almost like the local authorities didn't do anything when it mattered most, which is previously unheard of in Texas.
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There really is no limit to how stupid people are. A few years back, we had flooding across Bee Cave Rd at the low water crossing in Rollingwood. Water was pouring across the road and moving fast. Police had blocked off the road with a roadblock and flashing lights, and were making people turn around. A couple of cars in front of me, a man was begging the police to let him drive through it. I was imagining what he was saying: “I’ve got to pick up my dry cleaning.” The cops told him to back up and turn the fuck around. Unbelievable.
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Not surprising at all. In fact, government entities not speaking to each other seems to be the norm, rather than the exception. During 911, the NY Fire Dept and the NY Police Dept had no way of communicating with each other in place. Zero. They have supposedly remedied that problem. More incredible, the Army and Navy didn't communicate w/ each other before the Pearl Harbor attack, and both assumed the other was flying far-reaching patrols, when in reality, neither was.
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A couple of points about Kerrville City Manager Dalton Rice claim (in the press conference) that he went out for a morning run at 3:30am Friday morning while the flood was happening: 1. That seems...weird 2. Why wasn't he alerting people to the potential danger? Surely he had gotten the 1am flash flood alert.
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Maybe 'cause they all died including the Camp Mystic leadership?
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I think you missed my point. I was trying to communicate the general mindset of summer camp parents. We didn't deeply investigate the various facilities 'cause we assumed that they were safe. "They're expensive and all my friend's kids have been going for years, so they must be fine, yes?" In retrospect, that maybe wasn't the best mindset. But it's also not uncommon to assume that a camp facility would evacuate kids in a bad rain situation, or at least, investigate and keep an eye on all warning signs. And this one, apparently, was built on a flood plain. As I mentioned, a camp in Marble Falls, maybe Camp Champions, did evacuate last summer as a storm approached. Looks like the camp management at Mystic really dropped the ball.
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If I am a parent who lost a child and I am greeted by the camp representatives with a verbal onslaught of "God's Will" and, "calling his angels to him" there would be bloodshed. Thinking back to all the camps my daughters attended, I didn't really check any of them for safety precautions. I just assumed they were safe, cause all our friends had been having their kids attend them for years.
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I agree with these posts 100% that the camp is greatly to blame. The county bears plenty responsibility, but when your business is entrusted with the lives of hundreds of children and teens, you have better have a fucking good system in place to anticipate danger and protect lives. The Hill Country is well know to have a high level of flash floods. They should have been monitoring all the news and the 1PM Thursday weather warning should have been enough for them to take action. Perhaps they could have had their OWN audio warning system and escape procedures in place. And if, as people are claiming, they didn't get any warnings due to the bad cell service, that is 100% on them. Like I wrote about last summer, my friend's daughter's camp was evacuated a day in advance of a storm.
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I do not understand the accusation either. Just sharing it for info. Perhaps this is the result of an ongoing feud.
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This wild post came out two hours ago from the Austin Firefighters Association. They are apparently furious and claiming that the Austin Fire Chief would not deploy his water rescue teams due to budget concerns. Austin Firefighters Association rdpSetoons1116uu0h6u3234ig70u1f5u52h6hhc9m0hl0h73a6uc222u473 · It brings the Austin Firefighters no pleasure to report to the community that the Austin Fire Chief DENIED the deployment of Austin firefighters to Kerrville until very late into the event (so today!), with the exception of only 3 AFD rescue swimmers who helped staff helo teams (which still were NOT deployed until the afternoon of the 4th). The Austin Firefighter Special Operations teams are specially trained for Hill Country swift water rescue and are some of the best, if not the best, swift water boat teams in the State of Texas. It is absolutely outrageous that the Austin Fire Chief, Joel G. Baker, would not allow highly trained firefighters from Austin to respond to Kerrville. Because of this egregious dereliction of duty, LIVES WERE VERY LIKELY LOST BECAUSE OF CHIEF BAKER’S DECISION! Deployment orders came down from the State of Texas on July 2. We would've been pre-deployed before the waters even began to rise! It is unforgivable that a fire chief would NOT allow his firefighters to answer the call to save lives. Why would Fire Chief Joel G. Baker do this, you may ask? It was a misguided attempt to save money. I say “misguided” because the fire department is fully reimbursed by the state to deploy. I explained the reimbursement process to Chief Baker last week, and he failed to understand this very simple concept. We are disgusted with our fire chief. He needs to be held accountable and fired for his disgraceful dereliction of duty. The Austin Firefighters are starting a vote of no confidence on Tuesday on the fire chief. As disgusted as we are at our Austin Fire Department leadership, the Austin Firefighters Association made a decision to not air our dirty laundry while victims and bodies were still being recovered. But it's now July 7, and it's time that we hold accountable our disgraced fire chief, AND anybody else in his leadership circle who are responsible for this horrendous act. The Austin Firefighters commit to being transparent to the community about this process to remove our fire chief and hold all of those accountable who were part of this atrocity. The firefighters hope we have your support, because it's going to get ugly. I can't possibly express to you how outraged and sickened the firefighters are that we were not allowed to do the job—the job that we have trained so hard and long to do—during the historic floods that just occurred in Kerrville. We could've made a difference, and we were forced to stand down and lives were lost. The community deserves a fire chief who cares about the community as much as our firefighters, and that is simply not the case. Joel G. Baker must go! Please support your Austin Firefighters by sharing this post. Please check this page for updates
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Last year, my business partner's daughter attended a camp in Marble Falls on one of the lakes. They got a weather warning a couple of days in advance to evacuate and everyone was removed from the camp. Do you believe the lawsuits will be hinged around the national weather alert that went out on Thursday at 1pm, and of course, the Friday 1am flash flood alert?
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