horncyclist

When and where?

It's definitely different. I don't know. I kind of like it. As a business strategy, it seems like they could have been edgy while still appealing to the mass market for trucks. Don't see many guys driving f-150s going for it.

Schiff's closing today. Probably posted up thread but reposting because this should be a rallying cry through 2020. Just don't forget that Trump is not the disease, just a symptom. You need to get rid of whatever rot allowed such corruption to come to power. We are better than that.

But it wasn't out there for all to see and the country said "okay, cool." This is much different.

After Trump is acquitted, we have a president above the law. That's dead to me. Maybe it comes back to life but I'm not hopeful with Joe Biden or Pete Buttigieg leading the charge.

Bad but not crime. Didn't go through with it. He didn't have corrupt intent. Republicans will run with those three lines...ramp up the propaganda machine and he's acquitted. Democracy does indeed die in darkness. And these are dark times.

Thanks. So slight downtick but it doesn't account for the last week, including Sondland. The facts are damning and show a clear abuse of power. If this is not impeachable, then nothing is. They can manipulate 50% of the population to allow him to get away with anything. Trump won't be around forever--he's proably more likely than not to be voted out in 2020----- but whoever comes next will have the same playbook possibly without the baggage. The combination of Fox News, social media and decline of traditional media means objective, collectively accepted truth is no longer possible. These are very scary times. Everyone should be terrified.

What's being said?

Probably. There is a strategy available to just move forward and roll everything up into the obstruction. My main point was that if this was the democrats entire case, they would be fine moving forward. Bolton will have a lot to say and probably has a lot memorialized. I just don't know how long it's going to take for that to resolve itself. There's benefit to not dragging it on too much. In any case, Schiff and Goldman have done a masterful job prosecuting this.

Are there any witnesses scheduled for next week? If they wanted to go straight to articles of impeachment after this, these would be nice closing witnesses. Highlight the national security implications. There's a treasonous aspect underlying the bribe, for sure.

Yes. His emphasis on the announcement and not the actual investigation also shows he didn't care about the alleged corruption or expected I to go anywhere. An investigation without the politically valuable announcement would not have been enough.

Goldman just got it. Nice lawyering.

He confirmed the explicit quid pro quo relating to the military aid at the end their right?

This gonna be good.

Why not just let a private company make its own damn decisions? No one's eating there for the homophobia. And they're continuing to maintain a commitment to charity, including fighting homelessness and hunger. Doing good without bigotry apparently not good enough for Christian conservatives.

I didn't follow this that closely. Edwards seems like a pretty effective governor but a lot of this is a rejection of Trumpism. People are wising up to his fraud. One can hope. This description of Rispone's campaign from WaPo made me gleeful. Rispone campaigned as a staunch conservative who would restore “Christian values” to the state. He vowed to crack down on illegal immigration, threatening to step in as governor to prevent New Orleans from becoming a “sanctuary city.” New Orleans leaders have strongly denied that the city fits that label. “When I am governor, we will crack down — HARD — on every single criminal illegal and terrorist gang,” Rispone said in one newspaper ad. Besides Trump, one of Rispone’s top surrogates was “Duck Dynasty” star Willie Robertson. To get his message out, Rispone has spent more than $12 million of his own money on his campaign, flooding the airwaves with television ads. But his hard-charging campaign style has alienated some Republicans who believe he used unfair tactics against Abraham in the primary. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-louisiana-the-deep-souths-only-democratic-governor-seeks-reelection-as-voters-head-to-polls/2019/11/16/ef2557d0-07ca-11ea-924a-28d87132c7ec_story.html

You now have two people on record saying the so-called "transcript" that Trump has told us to read a hundred times is inexplicably missing key details.

More criticism. Barr and others trying to give an intellectual backbone to Trumpism need to go down with Trump. I wish more conservatives would stand up for this shit. They're making the same mistake as the Christian right, abandoning whatever principles you have for short-term political gain.

R+4 district. Stefanik been there for a while. Would love to vote her out. Also, it seems significant that George Conway is now raising money for Democrats. I think the Dems should take a big tent approach and welcome all NeverTrumpers.

This isnt normal right? How out of line is this from Obama's AGs? Or GWB's?

It's okay. Bill Bar said last conservatives are all about the rule of law...unlike that radical Left resistance. All is fine.

To highlight the hypocrisy, Barr gave this fucking speech a few hours after his President pardoned guys for fucking war crimes. Let that sink in.

You get so focused on the idiocy of Trump and forget that there is an intellectual movement underneath this using him as a tool to advance their interests. People talk about the 40-45 % Trump base that will never be convinced of any of his wrongdoing. That's not it. The people at his rallies aren't all of his strong hold or even the bulk of it. It's people like Barr and Ted Cruz who know exactly what they're doing but justify it, blinded by their self-righteousness and arrogance. So long as Trump is a useful tool to advance their political interests, they won't turn against him, country be damned. This thinking is a disease and needs to be excised.

I came here to post this too. The delusion among these guys is insane. This is what we're up against. One of the ironies of today is that those who oppose this President constantly accuse this Administration of “shredding” constitutional norms and waging a war on the rule of law. When I ask my friends on the other side, what exactly are you referring to? I get vacuous stares, followed by sputtering about the Travel Ban or some such thing. While the President has certainly thrown out the traditional Beltway playbook, he was upfront about that beforehand, and the people voted for him. What I am talking about today are fundamental constitutional precepts. The fact is that this Administration’s policy initiatives and proposed rules, including the Travel Ban, have transgressed neither constitutional, nor traditional, norms, and have been amply supported by the law and patiently litigated through the Court system to vindication. Indeed, measures undertaken by this Administration seem a bit tame when compared to some of the unprecedented steps taken by the Obama Administration’s aggressive exercises of Executive power – such as, under its DACA program, refusing to enforce broad swathes of immigration law. The fact of the matter is that, in waging a scorched earth, no-holds-barred war of “Resistance” against this Administration, it is the Left that is engaged in the systematic shredding of norms and the undermining of the rule of law. This highlights a basic disadvantage that conservatives have always had in contesting the political issues of the day. It was adverted to by the old, curmudgeonly Federalist, Fisher Ames, in an essay during the early years of the Republic. In any age, the so-called progressives treat politics as their religion. Their holy mission is to use the coercive power of the State to remake man and society in their own image, according to an abstract ideal of perfection. Whatever means they use are therefore justified because, by definition, they are a virtuous people pursing a deific end. They are willing to use any means necessary to gain momentary advantage in achieving their end, regardless of collateral consequences and the systemic implications. They never ask whether the actions they take could be justified as a general rule of conduct, equally applicable to all sides. Conservatives, on the other hand, do not seek an earthly paradise. We are interested in preserving over the long run the proper balance of freedom and order necessary for healthy development of natural civil society and individual human flourishing. This means that we naturally test the propriety and wisdom of action under a “rule of law” standard. The essence of this standard is to ask what the overall impact on society over the long run if the action we are taking, or principle we are applying, in a given circumstance was universalized – that is, would it be good for society over the long haul if this was done in all like circumstances? For these reasons, conservatives tend to have more scruple over their political tactics and rarely feel that the ends justify the means. And this is as it should be, but there is no getting around the fact that this puts conservatives at a disadvantage when facing progressive holy far, especially when doing so under the weight of a hyper-partisan media.

wrong thread