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Posts posted by TXSooner518
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Alright, it's a wrap, thoughts?
OPENING LINES
Convicted of murder +170
Convicted of manslaughter +120
Acquitted +200
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Just now, Tailgate said:
She testified "I thought he would come at me."
Meaning: He was not coming at her.
I rest my case.
Maybe you were out of the room when they testified about the pot and the black though.
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1 minute ago, HRSchenker said:
Guilty of murder and a sentence of 5 years = riots. I have no doubt about that.
What? Why? I would feel very strongly that would not be the case.
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Don't like this phrasing of "I'm worried y'all might have sympathy for her." Frame it as "something tough y'all have to do.." instead IMO. Otherwise, think this close has been great.
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2 minutes ago, msudawg said:
I agree. But what is the level of punishment that sets off an uproar. Anything less than murder? or just if she get's off completely, which seems less likely now that manslaughter has been given as an option.
I don't think manslaughter conviction sets off uproar, only acquittal.
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Just now, msudawg said:
Yea.. the 2nd defensive attorney was slightly stumbling.. and repeating the same things.. not a good look.
And I didn't like the 1st prosecutor really either.
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Thought you were kidding. State Fair of Texas.
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This guy's tone is more where I think is the most effective.
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1 minute ago, hookem17 said:
Why is Rogers repeating the same stuff as the other defense attorney?
Just now, 4th and 5 said:my thought exactly
my non-attorney wife just texted me asking the same thing, why are they having two people say the same things, so it isn't just lawdogs feeling that way either
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Just now, Continental Op said:
So we don't know where he was sitting but we know exactly how this guy eats ice cream?
Also, LOL at maybe the marijuana made it tough for Bo to figure out what was going on. Yep, if only he was clear-minded, this surely would have been avoided.
Also, they specifically said she DIDN'T follow protocol because it wasn't a call, and now say she has done everything just as she was taught.
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Rogers is awkwardly raising and lowering his voice, like Ferrell SNL character who CAN'T CONTROL their voice MODULATION.
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Defense seems to be mis-stating the law here. They said if the state doesn't prove either that Amber's mistaken belief that she was in her apartment or that Botham was an intruder in her apartment were unreasonable beyond a reasonable doubt, she must be acquitted. That's not true. Even if she was in her apartment and Jean was an intruder, jury would ALSO have to find that she believed that he was imminently committing one of the above listed offenses. No evidence was entered on that part.
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7 minutes ago, Machinator said:
Davis Webb was drafted on Day 2 in the 2017 NFL Draft. He wasn't exactly a scrub either.
Right, not saying those guys weren't solid or good or whatever, just saying there's a reason why JH is leading the Heisman race (and KM and BM won one) and the Tech guys didn't, and it isn't just the logo on the helmet.
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1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:
Why is it absurd?
Oklahoma QB Jalen Hurts has recorded a pass efficiency rating of at least 245.0 in four consecutive games. No FBS player since at least 1996 has recorded more than two such games in a season (min. 18 attempts).
The Tech "system" argument is that, sure, they put up big numbers, they throw 70 passes a game. That's not what OU is doing.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-rating-player-season.html
Jalen is #1 on this list. No Texas Tech player is in the top 100.
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BTW, the law on "mistake of fact" seems absolutely horrendous. How can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person didn't make a mistake of fact?
Would seem to make more sense to have a sliding burden of proof, like on a Batson challenge. The defense establishes the mistake of fact, then the state can show it wasn't reasonable. And maybe in practice, that's how it really works.
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Fair enough, I misunderstood your response to my post asking about a DV of acquittal earlier, my mistake.
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Kind of ironic that the defense is telling the jury to make a calm, patient decision without emotion. As I say, not as I do...
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On 9/25/2019 at 11:30 AM, 4th and 5 said:
If the firing of the pistol is an intentional or knowing act, and there is no evidence that she did not intend to fire the pistol, then there can be no charge for criminally negligent homicide or manslaughter.
There has to be some evidence, even if weak,, contradicted, not credible, to support submitting the charge to the jury That the act was not intentional or knowing
In this case she shot at him twice hitting him once in the chest, clearly an intentional act unless she’s going to testify that she just had her finger on the trigger and she did not intend to pull the trigger......TWICE
On 9/25/2019 at 11:36 AM, TXSooner518 said:I guess I'm still missing it. You're saying the CCA is affirming murder convictions by saying no evidence that the shooting is unintentional. Sure! Any case law of CCA overruling a manslaughter conviction by saying "nope it was intentional, not reckless"?
Under Texas law, proof of intent = proof of reckless. The elements of manslaughter are prima facie met under the Penal Code. So unless there is case law of a manslaughter or CNH conviction overturned because the act was intentional not reckless, I'm still missing it.
EDIT: I'm not saying failing to give lesser included would invalidate a murder conviction, but I also don't see how a manslaughter conviction could be overturned as a matter of law.
On 9/25/2019 at 12:37 PM, 4th and 5 said:Proof of the greater Culpable mental state is proof of the letter. But that doesn’t mean you get a jury charge when there is no evidence to support the chart. There has to be some evidence.
Then in response to me asking about what would happen if she was only charged with manslaughter, and that surely it wouldn't be directed verdict of acquittal:
On 9/25/2019 at 2:09 PM, 4th and 5 said:It would be a not guilty, because the specific reckless or negligent act need be ALLEGED in the indictment and PROVEN IN COURT, if not, not guilty. There is no negligent or reckless act in intentionally discharging a firearm.
So I don't think I misrepresented your position, which was that there would be no lesser included charge and that she can't be convicted of manslaughter.
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Just now, 4th and 5 said:
WTF I did not say a directed verdict of not guilty, I said she shouldn't even get the charge, because there was no evidence to support it.
Sorry if I misstated, it's been a lot of pages, but I recalled that you said it would be overturned on appeal, because no evidence (not even a scintilla).
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6 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:
a scintilla of evidence, you got that okie?
I was there from jump, you were the one saying manslaughter was a DV of NG, because intentional.
2 minutes ago, CHEF DIESEL said:This prosecutor with the beard is hungry. Like him.
I actually am finding him pretty annoying and grating, and I'm much more inclined to the state's side of this case.
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Something odd to me about including the Castle Doctrine instruction (on top of her, you know, not being in her Castle)...It only applies if the person enters your OCCUPIED habitation, which Botham didn't do, even allowing Guyger's mistake of fact. She knew she wasn't home when the "intruder" entered. So it can only apply if she was trying to stop the imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery. What evidence was entered that the person, even if an intruder, was imminently committing any of these offenses?
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1 minute ago, 4th and 5 said:
wow, manslaughter included....
Goddamn, I was told the stupid Sooner couldn't understand the law.... 😁
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I wouldn't play OU here. First half line maybe. I wouldn't be surprised if Brooks sits, and LOTS of 2s and 3s get lots of playing time. 49-20 type game.
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Hey I know I shot that guy who was just sleeping, but I thought he was raping my wife! Justified! Mistake of fact!
Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say
in Daily Texan
Posted
Murder is intentionally causing the death of another. It doesn't require motive, premeditation, or anything else. When she pointed the gun at Jean and pulled the trigger, she explicitly testified her intent was to kill him. That's murder unless it is justified or excused by a defense.
I think manslaughter is the result as a compromise. The state did prove all of the elements of manslaughter so I don't think it is nullification, and I do think saying making an unreasonable intentional decision is reckless is legally defensible as a result. I also think most laypeople picture "murder" as something more than Texas law does.