Kyle

Agreed. But in fairness, our Idiocracy is losing its mind about fast food, so I still think they win.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. It is refreshing to have a reasonable conversation. I'm not an attorney or insurance executive, so I admit I can speak authoritatively, but I would be surprised if any public official would be held personally negligent or liable in a civil case. Regardless, I do not think that changes the argument because the cops also likely were not experts in civil litigation and insurance liability, so the grand conspiracy would require quite a bit of sophistication on their parts. I do not see any evidence that points to level of sophistication. The fact Avery in fact was paid also pretty much answers that argument. We could play what-if all day long, but we have no reliable way truly to predict what his settlement might have been had he not been arrested again. To your second point, I certainly am not going to defend every action of the county, but those mistakes also do not necessarily point to a grand conspiracy. I am confident that if virtually every case was put under the microscope like Avery's, people could point to procedural mistakes. Does not excuse them - our public officials should be held to the highest office - but that also to me does not point to a grand conspiracy. I 100% agree with you (I do not particularly like the adversarial system) that also in virtually every prosecution the state does not adequately provide the defense with evidence in a timely manner and often hides exculpatory evidence. Zero argument there and no excuse. I'll respectfully disagree on the evidence. IMHO, there is overwhelming evidence pointing to him. I grant we all have the benefit of hindsight, and I do not know how I would have voted had I been on the jury. It does feel like the standard some expect to meet (zero doubt vs. reasonably doubt), virtually no one ever would be convicted of a crime. Back to what I typed earlier, 99% of cases can be picked apart and strong cases made for innocence. Some might agree, which is totally cool and another conversation - no value judgment just an observation. In terms of motive, Avery seemed to have a strong desire to execute a violent sexual fantasy and clearly fancied Theresa Halbech. Likely his motive was no different than most rapists.

Are they?

As stated previously: 1. What is the cops' motive for saving the insurance company money? Do you genuinely think they created a massive conspiracy and risked their careers and pensions for an insurance company? Possible yes. Probable, I do not think so. 2. If you read about the case, the massive conspiracy would not and did not negate the previous settlement. I guess in addition to being CIA-level operatives, these cops also are expert actuaries who calculated how another arrest would impact the settlement calculus and probability weighted the risks and decided it was worth it (again, now apparently working on behalf of the county's insurance company). If you get away from the emotion of the propaganda and think about it logically, it does not make a ton of sense. Even applying Occam's Razor, what do you think makes the most sense: 1. Cops pull off a massive conspiracy to reduce the settlement on behalf of the county's insurance company (risking their careers and pensions) 2. Avery did it given the tremendous evidence against him as well as motive, means, and opportunity Maybe.

You've thus avoided the question. What is the motive?

In other news ... if you want to read about a nearby case that was a serious case of prosecutorial misconduct and overall b.s. shenanigans, checkout the case of Jerry Tobias. It is frighteningly insane.

There are a ton of articles out there. I do not have a dog in the hunt. I just want people not to get suckered completely by propaganda and make up their own minds. I think the point of the articles is that the only reason anyone thinks he is innocent is because of the movie, and the movie clearly fabricates a story by omission. If you want more specifics, a couple more: https://www.businessinsider.com/making-a-murder-steven-avery-evidence-guilty-2016-1#avery-admitted-to-buying-handcuffs-and-leg-irons-11 https://news.avclub.com/read-this-the-damning-evidence-against-steven-avery-th-1798242739 Personally, I think it is pretty obvious he committed the crime. There is way too much evidence against him. Otherwise you have to go full CRC and completely contradict: these are moron, hillbilly cops that pulled of a CIA/JFK-level conspiracy. As noted previously, zero motive for a double-secret conspiracy to frame the guy.

Watched it last night for family movie night. I'm not a comic book guy, but I really enjoyed the movie ... the dialogue between Eddie and Venom was funny -> we LOL at the "pussy" and "loser" lines. Not a critic, but we all enjoyed it ... agreed on Hardy - I really like him but felt like an odd casting, but whatever it was fun.

This is frightening in myriad ways, in particular how random it was and his willingness to murder. Don't have an answer, but man I wish we had a better way to screen people for the crazy ... of course that would shut down the Cloak Room but well worth it.

Chuckle.

For example?

That's awfully homophobic.

I think her diaphragm would make a better congressman.

Tebow has had some mighty fine looking beards over the years.

Here are a few articles that try to present a more balanced approach. If you put MaM in full societal, cultural, and political, context, the agenda becomes a little more obvious. It is a pawn in a larger chess game. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/25/dead-certainty https://slate.com/culture/2016/01/making-a-murderer-is-so-emotionally-manipulative-it-left-me-angry.html https://www.dailywire.com/news/2363/dont-believe-press-steven-avery-guilty-murder-michael-qazvini https://www.businessinsider.com.au/making-a-murder-steven-avery-evidence-guilty-2016-1#/#the-cat-killing-incident-was-more-gruesome-than-filmmakers-made-it-seem-1 http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2015/04/serial-podcast-rehabilitated-a-schoolgirls-murderer-yet-remains-strangely-teflon.html They've obviously done a great job. You have chuckleheads actually arguing against themselves on this thread because their so passionate and loony about this.

Clearly engineering is not a forte either.

I still cannot believe that SJL was ever considered an appropriate method of representation.

I'm convinced there are not many groups of crazies more insane than passionate true crime followers. It is basically like arguing politics with different issues right down to the hyperbole, bogeymen, name calling, and overall tribal insanity. ... and Reddit sucks.

I hate to ask yet another clarifying, serious question. Assuming he has actual friends among his Facebook friends, how does he not get jacked the next day? Next thing you know he's telling his roommates about his lottery ticket. Or is that a Ben with a bunch of Georges?

No more rep for today ... there are a few cool ones out there, you just have to look.

Not a pet peeve per se but a question ... what's up with the fraternity of old milk jug water bottles? I mean, dudes' wearing $300 headphones and $100 yoga pants but can't spring for a nalgene or a camelbak?

I would not be shocked is Corso got hired by the Jets.

Now I seriously am going to start doomsday prepping. Coach Bruh was close, but if the Jets hire Rhule the apocalypse is imminent.

That's not an aggy ... no gigantic secsecsec logo. I think that's Amarillo Tascosa.

He could get all the games he wants.