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Posts posted by bullet
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2 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:
They have both made really strong improvements over the last decade. UTA just got approval for NRUF funding (that only Tech, UH, and UTD had previously) and if UTSA merges with UTHSCSA then they’ll be in a good spot too.
Did they? I thought they just made the first year of two?
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3 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:
I'll agree with a caveat. The UT System, outside of UT - Austin, needs to get better. UTSA and UTA have a very long way to go. Both should be excellent schools, and they aren't.
Agree also.
UTA is working on it. Think UTSA (and UTEP) is just too much of a local commuter option. UTA has a good chance to qualify for the Texas National Research University Fund when they review in the Spring. They made one year of qualifications this year. They need to repeat. UTD made it a couple years ago. Houston and Tech made it several years ago. UTSA & UTEP are a long ways away. Texas St. and North Texas are eligible, but don't appear like they will ever make it.
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8 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:
Hit us with that copy and paste action. Nobody is dumb enough to pay for the Houston Chronicle, right?
Link works.
Although it will probably go behind the wall tomorrow.
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32 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:
I got you fam:
Big Ten considered expansion before alliance with ACC, Pac-12
By Scott Dochterman
12 Comments
Big Ten administrators and school officials first looked into expansion before opting for the alliance with the ACC and Pac-12, Iowa athletics director Gary Barta told the university’s Presidential Committee on Athletics.
In the wake of Oklahoma and Texas accepting an SEC invitation in late July, Barta said the 14-school conference felt compelled “to react to this,” but the consensus was “we’re in a really good place.” But beforehand, the league openly debated the merits of expansion.
“We started to talk about, should we ever add any schools to the Big Ten Conference?” Barta said. “We certainly haven't said we never will. But in short run, with all the things that would have to be included to join the conference, we didn't identify anybody as a conference that we would immediately go after that would fit.”
It was at that point, Barta said, the league then looked into an alliance with the Pac-12 and ACC. When it comes to scheduling, Barta said, “Football will be our first approach,” but there are several logistical hurdles remaining for all three leagues.
“Some of our Big Ten schools have games scheduled out past 2030,” Barta, who is a member of the Big Ten’s work group, told The Athletic. “That's why it was made clear that we're excited about it. We’re going to begin working on it. Contracts are going to be honored. And at Iowa, we've made it clear, we need to have seven home games."
(Photo: James Black / Icon Sportswire via Getty Images)
What’s next for the Big Ten?
A few of the ADs, including Barta, will weigh the pluses and minuses of continuing a nine-game Big Ten schedule versus returning to an eight-game slate. Once the group reaches a conclusion, then the full group of athletic directors will debate it.
“The advantage of going to eight is then you don't have that 5-4 (home-away), every-other year,” Barta said. “There's certainly an advantage there. When we went to nine, one of the excitements was we were going to have another Big Ten game for our fans. If we do end up going to eight and then have an ACC-Pac 12 (game), I think our fans will be excited about that. It's going to be more complicated than maybe some people have thought about, partly because all those existing contracts and partly because currently, we're playing nine and the ACC plays eight.”
If the Big Ten returns to eight games, administrators would have to decide whether to keep the current divisional structure, alter it or scrap it in favor of the pre-2011 setup, which included a mix of permanent opponents and a rotation of other teams.
What's next for football scheduling for the alliance?
Both the Big Ten and Pac-12 have nine-game conference seasons negotiated into their media rights agreements, but those deals end after the 2022 (Big Ten) and 2023 (Pac-12) seasons. Other than a few location tweaks, the Big Ten is set to go forward with its nine-game schedule in 2022, then changes are possible.
“Our TV partners will definitely be part of this discussion,” Barta said. “As we head forward into any kind of an alliance scheduling, our TV partners will be at the table.”
For all three leagues, the collective priority first comes with likely College Football Playoff expansion and its impact on alliance scheduling.
“What are the parameters of getting into the CFP and how we set our scheduling up?” asked Barta, who currently serves as CFP chairman. “We want to make sure as a Big Ten that — and I'm sure the ACC and the Pac-12 are going to say the same thing — we want to make sure we're positioned well to maximize the opportunity to get into that equation.”
So they are going to shape the playoff selection to favor strength of schedule which they will try to achieve with the alliance.
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1 hour ago, Speedway said:
Statistics from a major national sporting goods chain ...
2019 Greater Houston locations - Sales rankings of sports labeled (logo) Apparel and Novelty Advertising:
#1 Houston Astros label on blue, orange & white
#2 Dallas Cowboys label on blue & silver
#3 Houston Rockets label on red & white
#4 Texas A&M "Aggie's" label on maroon & white
#5 Houston Texans label on red, white & blue
#6 Texas "Longhorns" label on burnt orange & white
#7 Texas Rangers label on red, white & blue
#8 Louisiana State "Tigers" label on purple & gold (yellow)
#9 Texas Tech "Red Raiders" label on red, black & white
#10 San Antonio "Spurs" label on black, silver & white
#11 Oklahoma State "Cowboys" label on orange, black & white
#12 Oklahoma "Sooners" label on crimson & cream
#13 Rice "Owls" label on blue & gray
#14 Houston "Cougars" label on red & white
#15 Dallas Mavericks label on blue, green & white
I know this just represents people buying sports apparel and novelty advertising with team logos and colors in 2019; but I think it is indicative of the competition U of H has for the TV eyeballs in the Greater Houston area. There are THIRTEEN other teams (seven that play on Saturday) with more fans (TV eyeballs) in the Greater Houston area than the hometown Houston Cougars. There is a reason U of H cannot average more than 26K to home football games from a greater metropolitan area of almost 7 million people that are physically located within fifty miles of Texas Dow Employees Credit Union Stadium on Cullen Drive. Yes that really is the name of their football stadium. If you want to add TV eyeballs from the Houston area you are better off adding Rice than U of H, and Rice comes with a bunch less problems than U of H would bring to any conference. Unfortunately for U of H, these are just the hard facts.
There's no link. What's the source?
This looks like total BS.
You can't find Texas Tech stuff. The closest sporting goods store to Rice U. doesn't even have a lot of Rice stuff. But it has as much Rice as it does LSU and Baylor. And it carries no Tech stuff. You see lots of UH stuff available all over town and more than LSU or Okie St. or OU.
UH is a very sold #3 in Houston among colleges. And its probably just since A&M supersized that it has slipped from #2 to #3.
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44 minutes ago, J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. said:
I like the 4 they are reported to be pursuing, but still think they should also add SMU and Memphis.
If they go to 14 and UCF is in, USF should be #13.
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12 minutes ago, chase25 said:
Money will ultimately be the deciding factor and if the PAC, B1G, or ACC came calling OKST would be gone the next day but there are upsides to the Big 12 competitively speaking for Oklahoma State in football. I wouldn’t say Oklahoma State’s chances of winning a national title get better or worse going to a P4 conference.
Do your chances of beating Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, or Georgia go up because you are in a P4 conference versus being in the Big 12? I get your point in recruiting but I’d say TCU and Boise State are perfect examples of building programs in lesser conferences and then letting the chips fall where they may when you get your shot at the end of the year. It’s not like Oklahoma State has made a living reeling in blue chip recruits in the past. Gundy takes the overlooked 4 star and 3 star kids and develops them.
This is all mute if Oklahoma State gets a call from the P4, they would undoubtedly take the money but in the short term I don’t think the proposed 12 team Big 12 is the end of the world for Oklahoma State. Especially if you lead the charge to keep it at an 8 game conference schedule so you have more flexibility to bring in marquee opponents out of conference because Oklahoma State would be an attractive non conference game for a Notre Dame, Alabama, Ohio State etc…
I'm not convinced TCU wasn't the best team in 2010. They certainly had a much better defense than Oregon and Auburn. They only thing Auburn had on them was Cam Newton.
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25 minutes ago, n64ra said:
Seems like the Big 12 should go to more than 12 teams (14? 16?) so when a few are poached, they may still have 12 teams.
Splits the money too much. Going to 12 provides protection against poaching. Lose 2 and they don't need to add. Lose 4 and they are still at 8.
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2 hours ago, The Grassy Nole said:
Yet Scott Frost some how won a championship there, if that's not a sign UCF is a power nothing is
Gene Chizek won a real championship at Auburn in 2010 and got fired 2 years later.
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1 hour ago, Gaffords said:
I think we move after this season, but it wouldn't surprise me if we're here another two seasons. The attempt by aggy to get help blocking the move by trying to get SEC and other fans to turn on the SEC office seems to have exposed things two years ahead of schedule.
I would guess it only got exposed a few months ahead of schedule. They wouldn't be so far along if they were planning on 2023 disclosure.
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1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:
Just don't see UH making it in unless Kansas really wants them for basketball competition.
Tech, bailor, and tcu don't want UH
I think Tech, Baylor and TCU will support UH. Question is whether the Kansas City mob (KU, KSU, ISU) are going to fight more Texas schools.
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4 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:
Like you, I used to think UCF was a flash in the pan. I don't think that is the case any longer. The Big 12 would be stupid not to offer them a spot.
“I really believe we are a consistent Top 25 program,” Mohajir told The Athletic. “And I truly believe that, in due time, we will be a consistent top-10 program.
UCF doesn’t have a long history. The school opened in 1968. It began playing football in Division III in 1979 and moved up to the FBS in 1996 as an independent. Daunte Culpepper became a first-round pick in 1999. UCF spent three years in the MAC and eight in Conference USA before joining the Big East, which reshaped into the American Athletic Conference.
Everything went fast. UCF opened an indoor practice facility in 2005, the first by any FBS school in Florida. An on-campus stadium opened in 2007. They aren’t the nicest facilities out there, but they’re there. Rival USF still doesn’t have either. UCF has made racing forward its priority, pacing and planning be damned. In 2019, the school’s president and board chair resigned amid an investigation into the misuse of funds for unauthorized school construction projects.
Enrollment has exploded to more than 70,000, and it’s not just a commuter school anymore. Football success has followed, as the Knights reached BCS/New Year’s Six bowl games in 2013, 2017 and 2018, with three top-10 finishes. A real fan base developed. The football team sold out all 28,000 season tickets in 2019. Its online army is relentless in the college football Twitter world. As of July 2019, UCF athletics ranked in the top 10 nationally in Twitter, Facebook and Instagram engagement.
All of which led to Thursday’s meeting. Mohajir laid out a three-phase vision for the “football campus” around the current football setup. Phase 1 involves the creation of a plaza outside the stadium, highlighted by the lazy river the school has planned for years (technically called “Recovery Cove”). It’ll be the front porch to the stadium for fans. Phase 2 will be a football operations building attached to the stadium and an expanded student section. Phase 3 will be a renovation of the locker room, training room, sports performance center and equipment facility.
“With all the stuff we have going here, with the size of the campus, the NIL opportunities, we believe we’ll be able to compete with anybody in the country when it comes to recruiting,” Mohajir said.
Speaking to the board, Mohajir estimated the football campus would cost around $50 million, part of a $130 million investment in all sports. It’s the beginning of a long process, but Mohajir has turned these visions into reality before. FAU Stadium, which opened in 2011, was his project as an assistant athletic director at Florida Atlantic. As Arkansas State AD, he led a stadium renovation and creation of a football operations building that opened in 2019, a stunning structure that could rival almost anyone in the nation. New Red Wolves coach Butch Jones recently called Mohajir to thank him for the facilities in place in Jonesboro.
The UCF presentation is out there now. Will the Big 12 notice? The school’s board asked Mohajir about Texas, Oklahoma and the changing landscape.
“The timing happens to be appropriate, but we started this way before the Texas and Oklahoma announcement,” Mohajir said. “We’re creating a vision to be the best we can be. We think this puts us on a level playing field.”
The presentation was not just about facilities. It was an overall athletics recap. One slide Mohajir presented to the board said UCF has had the ninth-most nationally televised games on major TV networks since 2018, because TV ratings paint a picture, too.
From 2018 to 2019, Big 12 home games not involving Texas or Oklahoma averaged 886,000 viewers. If you take out Fox and FS1 games, the 22 Big 12 home games on ABC, ESPN or ESPN2 averaged 1.37 million viewers, as The Athletic’s Stewart Mandel broke down. Take out one massive Ohio State-TCU game, and the Big 12’s ESPN-only number drops to 1.1 million. By comparison, the 49 AAC home games on ABC/ESPN networks in that span averaged 1.01 million viewers.
UCF’s 14 games on those ABC/ESPN networks averaged 1.09 million viewers in that span, according to additional data from Sports Media Watch, essentially the same as the rest of the Big 12. (There were two ABC/ESPN2 mirror games not included because the data is unclear.) That number is boosted by 3.2 million who watched the 2018 UCF-Cincinnati game but doesn’t include the 4.7 million who watched the dramatic 2017 UCF-USF game, and opponents like UConn, East Carolina and Temple push the recent numbers down a bit.
“We’re an outstanding TV brand. That’s why we’re on,” Mohajir said. “The powers that be that choose teams think we’re a good brand. A lot of it has to do with eyeballs. So whether you’re undefeated or have eight wins, we have that deep breadth of eyeballs because of the size of our campus, our alumni base and our region.”
UCF’s athletic budget for the upcoming year is $73 million, and Mohajir told the board he hopes to increase that to $100 million in the next five years. UCF athletics finished the 2021 fiscal year in the black, in part thanks to $6 million in buyout money from Tennessee for former AD Danny White and former head coach Josh Heupel.
How does that compare to the Big 12? Kansas State has the lowest athletic budget in the league, at $83.5 million in 2019-20 before the pandemic. Most other Big 12 schools outside of Texas and Oklahoma are in the mid-90s. But television money accounts for almost that entire difference, as Big 12 schools make around $20 million more in annual television payouts than AAC schools — a number that is about to change dramatically with Texas’ and Oklahoma’s pending departures.
When that number drops, would UCF push it up? What about Cincinnati, Houston or BYU?
For now, conference realignment is at a standstill. The next domino to fall, if there is one, is likely to start in the Big 12. Either the league will fall apart as the eight remaining teams go elsewhere, or they’ll stay together and likely try to add teams. Mohajir described everything as one big staring contest at the moment.
If the Big 12 expands, UCF is ready for the call. The school and athletic department have willed themselves into position over the past two decades, hoping to finally take that last big step. But no one knows what comes next.
“You have to align yourself with eyeballs and viewership and alumni bases,” Mohajir said of UCF’s resume. “That’s why we believe we’re the future of college football.”
UCF might continue to do very well. But you can't deny that they went from a 12-1 Fiesta Bowl winner to 0-12 in just 2 years with the same coach.
Houston, Cincinnati and BYU have proven they can compete consistently.
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2 hours ago, 'stache said:
I'd take Memphis first, at least it's a cool city, and none of them are really distinguishable, just more weakness to a dying conference. It'll most likely be BYU, Cincinnati, Memphis, and Houston. I don't give a single shit about commuter schools in Florida. We have commuter schools much closer to home that can at least save on travel costs, since we'll be making peanuts from any media contracts with or without these additions.
I think UCF and USF just bring no synergy to the rest. Its too hard to break into Florida with the SEC and ACC already entrenched. With those schools 2+2=3.75. With a school like Houston I think its more likely a 2+2=4.5.
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Time for a Greg Swaim tweet. If he says it, you can be sure Houston and SMU are in serious contention.Sounds like he stole this from a tweet by another guy.
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8 minutes ago, TexArcher said:
Am I the only one who doesn't give a quarter of a fuck what becomes of the Big XII?
No, but it is a "realignment talk not going away" thread.
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In expanding, the Big 12 should probably ask if there is any possible scenario they could see the Pac or ACC adding one of these schools. If the answer is no, the Big 12 should say no (except for BYU who would be rejected for different reasons). So UH, SMU, CSU, UCF, USF and Cincinnati could fill Pac 12 or ACC holes left by a raid by one of the Big 2. But anyone else? Maybe UConn if they get their football act together. But they haven't and they don't fit Big 12 geography.
So that leaves 7 for 2, 4 or 6 slots.
BYU
Houston
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Colorado St.
SMU
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Trying to hurt the AAC and MWC seems like a flawed strategy. The idea is to try to look more like the Pac 12 and ACC, not more like the MWC and AAC. Other than Texas and Oklahoma, there really is no overlap between those conferences and the Big 12.
Expanding too much increases the gap vs. the Pac and ACC. And adding schools like Memphis and Boise makes the Big 12 seem like less a member of the "club" to the presidents of Big 10 and Pac 12 schools.
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4 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:
I think going to 10 is the most likely path for the Irate 8. They'll want to limit the slices of pie.
Baylor, TCU, and possibly Texas Tech will try to block UH to maintain a perceived recruiting advantage. That's more than enough votes.
I could see the Irate 8 ducking a fight with ESPN for AAC teams, and instead adding Boise and BYU.
Big 12 made $97 million from the CFP/Sugar Bowl last year. That's $9.7 million per team. At 12 teams that's 8.1 million. At 14, 6.9 million. At 16, 6.1 million.
Just to make up for splitting the CFP pie smaller, going from 12 to 14 would require $14.4 million in addition to matching the revenue the other schools make. I'm not sure there are 6 schools that can match the current membership, let alone exceed it. There certainly are not 8. There are probably just 3-BYU, UH and Cincinnati.
If you go to 8, that means most likely UCF and USF. Then you have to find 3 others. SMU? CSU? Memphis? Probably drag down the average. Boise maybe, but they have a lot of other drawbacks, like travel, basketball and academics.
Just no way they can do 16. And 14 seems questionable, as well as premature until they see if 12 works.
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Just now, camel at sea said:
If those underlying factors were in place five years ago... aren't they still in place now?
They are still there. The pressure is probably broader, but without Rick Perry, its not as immediate. Perry was a C student at A&M when it made Arkansas look like a great school. He wanted to return A&M to his time and pushed them to rapidly grow from 45k to 65k. That issue was the reason Powers almost got removed as UT president. He resisted Perry's effort to dumb down the university.
There are still more and more good suburban students who can't get into UT or A&M. That creates pressure.
California has 7 public and 3 private AAU universities. Texas has 2 public and 1 private.
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Tech and UH at the time (UTD has joined them) were the two schools getting money from the National Research University Fund. That's the state fund to try to promote more research oriented universities in Texas. Both wanted more money pumped into that fund.
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1 hour ago, camel at sea said:
The Texas legislature, Governor Abbott, and Texas Tech's President endorsed Houston to the Big 12 five years ago so that UT could get a research campus in Houston?
I think the real reason was that Texas wants UH to do well to get some of the pressure off Texas to lower admission standards the way A&M has. Houston in the Big 12 in 2016 might have helped stem some of the good students going to Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama etc. Houston is a better school than the majority of the SEC in just about any ranking other than USNWR. Its much tougher to get into. It ranks higher in the research oriented rankings like ARWU. Only Florida, Georgia, Vandy and A&M are clearly better.
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Trammel talks expansion
"The Big 12 is back in the expansion business. The beleaguered conference will not need to draw up a list of potential candidates.
That list already exists.
The Big 12’s infamous 2016 expansion process, during which the conference asked for applications from prospective members and interviewed at least 11 schools, gives the league more than a jumpstart....
Trammel thinks BYU, UH, Cincinnati, SMU, UCF, Boise and Memphis are likely to be in the lead.
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3 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:
26:50 - “I can tell you, that networks would probably have paid 95%, 92-95% of the total Big12 television contract just to OU and Texas if they decided to just like to be independents. Just to give you a sense of like…we’re not paying, we’re not paying to like televise the other teams.”
I think he might be exaggerating a bit lol but goes to the greater point we’ve been making on this thread.
Maybe hurtlocker can give some insight, but it isn't clear how much the networks are paying for the blockbuster games relative to routine games.
Is a game with 5 million viewers worth twice as much as one with 2.5 million viewers? Or is it worth 4 times as much? I really don't know.
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13 games over 5 years vs. 12 over 5 years. There are between 420 and 490 ACC games over 5 years and 300 to 350 Big 12 games and you are saying the ACC outperformed the Big 12 because of that with 40% more games? You must be a social science major.
The R8 have better average attendance than the Pac 12 (2016-2019) or the ACC. They can't match the TV ratings of Clemson or USC. But they beat the average teams. And virtually every member of the R8 has been in the hunt for an MNC in November in the last 15 years. TCU and Oklahoma St. may have well won one if ESPN had given them the chance. TCU maybe 2. Tech, Baylor, KSU, WVU and even KU(!) have been a late November (or December) loss from a title game. No other conference can match that top to bottom consistency. Half the SEC has never been that close. The r8 have no superstars, but they have some good performers.
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Realignment talk not going away
in Football
Posted
Nothing directly for us. But it means they at least have a plan after the divorce. Means settlement talks can begin in earnest.