Bruno Sardine

And that's fair. Though I doubt I'm particularly unique in this respect. Ceasing and desisting.

Because racism is not the result of a complex system of policies enacted over a protracted period of time by the government of Egypt to discriminate against blacks. That's why CRT would be of limited utility there. How is that in the least bit controversial and why would anyone take exception to that?

You wrote, in reference to CRT, "There is nothing wrong with putting in place law and policy which contradict human nature." Are there two jimmyjazzes here or something?

You're the person who displayed ignorance about the world's second largest religion, asserting, falsely, that racism is fundamental to Islam. So yeah, if the shoe fits... And I never said it couldn't be used. I said you could try to apply it, but it would yield incoherent results. And furthermore, I explained why. Because the focus of CRT, as I understand it, is legal, institutional. And legally, institutionally, Egypt is fundamentally shaped by Islam, the scriptural tenets of which preclude racism.

Not really sure. Just responding to another poster, who put things in such a way to indicate that he viewed CRT as a form of "law" and/or "policy."

"Studying race critically and changing people's hearts are not mutually contradictory." No, they are not. Agreed. As I say, I am ceasing and desisting. Or trying to. If there were some way to place a wager on this, some way to establish commonly agreed upon parameters, I would happily place a bet with you as to how this all turns out. Although its goals may be admirable, I'm betting CRT is destined for the dustbin of history.

That's just way overboard. And off topic. I'm all in favor of putting in place laws and polices that address systemic racism, including affirmative action. I never said I was against putting CRT in place. I said I didn't think it would have the desired effect. Now you're the one who is trolling.

It does run against the grain of Islam. But not everyone who identifies as Muslim is true to the faith. You sound like an Islamophobe.

I do.

You're right. Too much lead-in. My bad. I apologize for that. I truly do. By all means, attempt to improve things via CRT. I support the objectives. I don't think it'll work, but I support the objectives. By deeper, I mean that racism is an expression of human nature. You're not going to solve the problems which you quite admirably desire to solve unless you change people's hearts. CRT is flawed in the sense it cannot be successfully applied to broad swaths of the planet (an assertion with which I realize some of you disagree). And it is flawed in the sense that it will not change people's hearts. There are quack historians who assert falsely that the successes of the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s’ were anything other than the result of convincing American voters that the goals of the Civil Rights Movement were fundamentally noble, peaceful, and spiritually beautiful. If we want to continue to advance racial justice, we'll need a movement that replicates that. Something which appeals to and resonate with people the world over. (Maybe BLM will evolve into such a movement.) Something everyone everywhere will hail for its beauty, profundity and brilliance. Then you might actually have something. An idea that could change people’s hearts. I don't think CRT fits that bill.

I assume you're a person of good faith, and don't take any of the comments here too seriously, since it's not face and face and people are speaking anonymously. I never said or even implied that intelligence varied by race.

"ok I did now what?" Now you live with it.

I didn't say to ban critical race theory. I didn't say that all all. You're not even attempting to be serious. Just poo flinging.

I actually agree with that. Sorry I didn't phrase it better.

Yes, but there are dumbasses who feel otherwise. Don't you want to equip high school students with the ability to shoot down dumbasses? That's why you discuss all the views, so people become aware, by processing things using their own brains, of the dumbassery that's out there. Then they'll be more proficient at combating it.

I mean, maybe I am jimmyjazz. I don't like trolling, and I really don't think I'm doing that. I sincerely believe that CRT fails to capture or address the essence of the problem. But I will cease and desist, having placed my bet: I don't think this movement, this discipline, this science - whatever you want to call it - will succeed in the long run in its objectives.

Look in the mirror.

You seem angry. There are most certainly people who disagree with your interpretation of the Civil War, as you well know. I agree with your interpretation. But don't you understand that if you want to gain a better understanding of the Civil War, the best way to do that is to begin with acknowledging the fact that there are differing interpretations? That's standard academic procedure. You discuss the various interpretations, you don't censor them. Then, an honest evaluation based on the facts will lead to the conclusion you desire. That's what happened in the classrooms I was in.

I literally said the exact opposite of that. I said racism exists, but racism runs against the grain of Islam. But thanks for the links.

You are an obtuse person. You look around you, you don't see me anywhere on your political spectrum. "My God, it's because he's to the right of me! He's one of them! Another racist, fascist Trump supporter!" But I am to the left of you. Way, way out to the left of you. That's why you don't see me. You, in fact, are the centrist. You are the one who is only too happy to perpetuate the status quo. CRT is actually another tool for doing just that. It won't solve anything. To the extent that it has been embraced by elites in America, its purpose is to serve as a safety valve. A way of releasing pressure. The show must go on. It would be bad for business if it didn't.

I thought they were "baked in" via institutions. I though the concept of "systemic racism" was central to CRT. So, systems. Institutions. Organs of the state. School systems. Legal systems. But I see what you mean in your first sentence, and tried to make that same point myself. The institutional aspect derives from something deeper.

Exactly!!! My point exactly, Bateshorn! And what does any of that have to do with CRT? What light does CRT shed on that history?

I very much appreciate that, but it's like we're living in different countries. I think most teachers teach it the way you think they should teach it. Did you have a different experience? I attended DISD, and that's how all that stuff was taught to me. Or rather, both versions were presented. We had debates about stuff like that in American History class. I don't believe there's some giant white-washing of history going on in our public schools. Both my children are recent graduates of public schools. But as I say, your experience may have been very different from mine.

Based on my understanding of the culture and history of that region. Why do you think otherwise? I trust your views are based on your understanding of the culture and history of that region, and not on ideological fealty.

I respectfully disagree. I think that, in fact, you are the one choosing to be ignorant. I understand that it is your assertion that it can be applied in any country. And, in a way, I accept the validity of that assertion in the sense that, yes, of course you can take out your CRT tool kit and apply it to any country. I repeat, because it seems like people are being willfully obtuse about this: I accept that from your perspective CRT can be applied anywhere. I get that. What I am saying, and have been saying all along, is just because you attempt to apply it, doesn't mean it will produce coherent results. In the case of a Muslim country, where Islam is fundamentally ingrained in all the institutions, it will produce an incoherent result. Perhaps the problem here is some people fail to understand that racism is forbidden in Islam. If you're a Muslim you're a full-fledged Muslim, regardless of your ethnicity. Institutionally, in North African and Middle Eastern countries, the tide in many ways tilts against racism (notwithstanding, of course, the complex history and implications of the East African slave trade)