Bruno Sardine

Took longer than expected, but this is why I said, initially, I believe the creator created all groups of men equally. And someone actually questioned why I took the trouble to point that out. This is why.

Thanks. I agree. Yes, back up. I get what you're saying. I've thought about it, and I've thought about it a lot. It's a big country. Plays an important role on the world stage. I'm certainly not an expert in Egyptian history and culture, but I followed the Arab Spring very closely and learned a lot. There was a revolution there, as you know, with much discussion and international coverage of Egypt's government and institutions. I am saying your shovel doesn't work there. If you think your shovel will work there, then you, or somebody else, can prove me wrong by giving me the Egyptian version of the GI Act or school segregation. I don't think it exists. I think racism exists in Egypt, and provided evidence to back that up. But I don't think its foundation is institutional. That's all I'm saying. That's all I've said here. I've been consistent the whole time. Haven't moved the goal posts. If it doesn't apply to large swaths of the world, then it's not universal. If it's not universal, then it can't address a universal problem.

Your words possess a rich irony considering that you yourself are part of a circle jerk going on right now and the person you accuse of living in an echo chamber is the one being surrounded. Well done!

I don't understand your points. The handles here are all intended to reflect the fact that this is a UT message board? Also, Bruno Sardine was an excellent detective. You shouldn't underestimate his sleuthing skills. I will observe that the mere fact you're pointing to my handle suggests a level of desperation on your part. As for the Egyptian academic landscape, It is certainly true I am not an expert. But I don't think CRT applies there, as I have said. More generally, I don't think it applies to North Africa and the Middle East (though I assume it applies to Israel).

Too much verbal diarrhea to copy all that. You are the Mr. Phlegm of the Cloak Room. “More common sense ignored by Troll.” No, the alleged troll, at whom you’re angry because you perceive that I pissed in your Cheerios by questioning the merits of a theory you’re working hard to champion here, didn’t ignore that at all. He doubled down on it and challenged someone to show how the experience of blacks in North Africa and the Middle East lends itself to CRT analysis. And no one, so far, has offered a rebuttal. They simply claimed that it could be done. The fact that you’re ignorant, and don’t think blacks experience racism in that part of the world in many of the same ways they experience it here, is an irrelevant side note except insofar as it highlights my initial observation that some of you are extremely provincial in your outlook

Maybe. Look, you could well be right. I happen to disagree. I appreciate your civility and your willingness to engage in open-minded discussion. My response to you is: Is fucking going away? Is drinking going away? Is fighting going away? How do you purport to change human nature? Do you think CRT has any hope of accomplishing that? Because I don't.

I didn't mean to be dismissive by not saying more about the link you so kindly provided. My next question would be, how do you think this line of inquiry will be received in Japan? Or do you think that's even a relevant question? If you don't think it's a relevant question, then we're talking at cross-purposes here. I'm talking about the future of the idea, and its likelihood to gain traction outside of the USA. In my opinion, it will not gain traction in Japan. It will be rejected, and it will be rejected furiously. It may have adherents in Germany, but, ultimately, it will not gain traction there either, nor in many other European countries. I think, for the most part, it is DOA, for the reasons I have outlined here. The disparity in black/non-black outcomes is a world-wide phenomena. It is very convenient to say, "but you can apply CRT to other places." Fine, apply it to Egypt. Apply it to Saudi Arabia. Apply to Morocco. The theory is limited.

Then why hasn't it been applied in Egypt? Is not the fundamental plank in the CRT platform that the key to addressing racism is to reform institutions? That racism is structural, institutional? Mock me for pointing out at least one exception to this theory/discipline, Egypt. (Not you, someone else.) But religion is a fundamental part of the societal structure of Egypt. It is simply impossible to overplay how fundamental Islam is to Egyptian culture, including its legal traditions. So I'm asserting the theory doesn't apply to Egypt. Nor to Saudi Arabia, the UAE or any other number of Muslim countries. So except for the fact that CRT is inapplicable to a substantial portion of the world population - sure, it's a great theory with a bright future.

Lame. Offer it up then. I said CRT fails as a universal paradigm. I highlighted a Muslim society, Egypt, with strict religious safeguards against racism. I provided an article documenting the kind of racism faced by blacks in Egypt. I asserted that CRT sheds little to no light on racial disparities in Egypt. So rebut me. Assert the contrary and provide facts to support your argument.

That's where, from my perspective, this discussion is so bizarre. To read this thread, to hear public discussion on this subject, you would never know that curriculum standards in all the 50 states already mandate coverage of slavery, Jim Crow, the genocide of Native Americans, etc. Some of you speak as if the historical events upon which CRT rests its conclusions are not the very same events already being taught in public schools. https://lor2.gadoe.org/gadoe/file/6d0fa279-21d4-4f08-aaa0-9f0e5f3ad6bf/1/Social-Studies-United-States-History-Georgia-Standards.pdf Here, for example, are some of the standards for high school American History in Georgia (not in perfect chronological order): Connect major domestic issues to their social effects including the passage of civil rights legislation and Johnson’s Great Society, following the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Describe the impact of television on American culture including the presidential debates (Kennedy/Nixon, 1960), news coverage of the Civil Rights Movement, the moon landing,and the war in Vietnam. Investigate the growth, influence, and tactics of civil rights groups, Martin Luther King, Jr., the Letter from Birmingham Jail, the I Have a Dream Speech, and Cesar Chavez. Describe the social and political turmoil of 1968 including the reactions to assassinations of Martin Luther King, Jr., and Robert F. Kennedy, the Tet Offensive, and the presidential election. Connect major domestic issues to their social effects including the G.I. Bill, Truman’s integration policies, McCarthyism, the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act, and Brown v. Board of Education. Connect the decision of Plessy v. Ferguson to the expansion of Jim Crow laws and the formation of the NAACP. Describe the significance of the Thirteenth, Fourteenth, and Fifteenth amendments. Explain the Black Codes, the Ku Klux Klan, and other forms of resistance to racial equality during Reconstruction. Explain the Plains Indians’ resistance to western expansion of the United States and the consequences of their resistance. Explore the relationship between slavery, growing north-south divisions, and westward expansion that led to the outbreak of the Civil War. Evaluate the Kansas-Nebraska Act, the failure of popular sovereignty, Scott v. Sanford,John Brown’s Raid on Harper’s Ferry, and the election of 1860 as events leading to the Civil War. Explain Jacksonian Democracy, including expanding suffrage, the Nullification Crisis and states’ rights, and the Indian Removal Act. Explain how the significance of slavery grew in American politics including slave rebellions and the rise of abolitionism. Explain the key features of the Constitution, including the Great Compromise, limited government, and the Three-Fifths Compromise. Describe the Middle Passage, the growth of the African population and their contributions, including but not limited to architecture, agriculture, and foodways. Examine the roles of women, American Indians, and enslaved and free Blacks in supporting the war effort.

Thanks.

It’s unfortunate that you feel that way, Jimmy. I think you’ll find my ideas are my own. I’m not parroting anybody. I’m not arguing that CRT is a Marxist plot or that it threatens to destroy the fabric of the USA or any of that. For someone who has taken the trouble to discover that I “have issued a lot of definitive judgments on CRT” – but neglect to reference a single one of them to which you take exception… I’m not sure, but it almost seems like you aren't arguing in good faith.

By the way, I thought someone might ask me what I think. But since no one did – and not that anyone cares - I think CRT is ultimately a form of mental masturbation. It errs by focusing on the symptoms, rather than on the disease that causes the symptoms. The underlying disease is the same in Egypt, the USA, whatever country you care to name. You can talk yourself blue in the face about legal systems, banking systems, education systems, etc. But you’re not addressing the underlying problem. Those things are just symptoms.

Thanks. Has someone done that? Used CRT to explain systemic racism in Egypt? Feel free to point me in that direction. It would help me to understand it better.

I already said I didn't understand it well. But isn't the underlying idea that to understand and address the plight of African Americans you must first accept that the government and institutions of the United States were set up for the purpose of ensuring white hegemony? And that the United States remains a society founded on white supremacy? Is that not the thrust of CRT? One thing's for sure, the government and institutions of Egypt, for example, were not created by white supremacists for the purpose of perpetuating white supremacy. So I question CRT's utility as a universal paradigm.

https://english.alaraby.co.uk/analysis/being-black-egypt Read this article. Then try to argue, with a straight face, that the discrimination faced by blacks in Egypt is substantively different or distinct from the discrimination faced by African-Americans. Now tell me, with a straight face, that CRT can shed the least bit of light on this. You can’t do it. CRT most certainly constitutes a provincial perspective. It is narrow and can never achieve its aims. Though its aims, so far as I understand them, are laudable.

Then you don’t understand my argument, which is no doubt my fault. Let’s take North Africa, because the societies are very different from ours and CRT does not apply there. Pick your country. Egypt, Tunisia, etc. There are racial disparities between blacks and non-blacks. Now, is it your position that this is just a coincidence? That the underlying causes of the plight of blacks in North Africa are wholly separate and distinct from the underlying causes of the plight of blacks in the USA? That these are unrelated phenomena? Because that would be an absurd position to take. They are related phenomena. Now, if they are related phenomena, and you propose – as you propose here – to try to understand racial disparities in America, then the ideas you propose should be applicable to North Africa. Or anywhere else, I would argue, since the disparity between blacks and non-blacks is universal. Unlike CRT!. Surely you can see that. If you truly want to fix something, you have to have the right tools. This issue – the disparity between blacks and non-blacks – is a world-wide issue. Want to solve it? Come up with ideas that explain the disparity in global terms. CRT doesn’t do that. Therefore CRT is not going to take you very far in solving the issue.

Thanks. But I am under the impression that CRT involves extensive analysis of and emphasis on topics such as the GI Bill and US government housing policies after World War II. Which is good, which certainly lends insight into the problems African-Americans have faced and continue to face in the USA. But it doesn't tell us much about other countries, does it? Or perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I am would point out parallel developments and policies in other societies. In the absence of someone's ability to do that and do it with specificity, I question the universality of CRT and would suggest that its adherents are somewhat provincial in their thinking.

Sure. Agreed.

There are black people outside the United States, no? Black people in Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, Spain, Tunisia, Algeria, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Ecuador, Columbia, Costa Rica and many other countries, correct? Are the disparities between blacks and non-blacks in economic outcomes, health outcomes, education outcomes, etc. unique to the United States or do we find the same disparities all over the world? (Rhetorical questions, so far.) For the record, I don’t believe the creator created inferior types/categories of humans based on outward physical characteristics, and my biological children aren’t white. I confess to not being terribly familiar with CRT, but as a universal lens through which to examine racial inequalities it seems limited, since these same inequalities are found the world over and CRT, as I understand it, applies specifically to America. But perhaps I’m mistaken. Happy to be enlightened.

Maybe. I will confess that once upon a time I was naive enough to think it was just a matter of chance that Roy Williams hurt so many people when he tackled them. Then, over the course of time, I came to realize - as did the NFL itself - that in fact he knew exactly what he was doing. Honestly, I know nothing about the player in question's history. If this is an outlier then it certainly gives credibility to your perspective.

Ramos is a good comp to the Chelsea guy. You can't dust yourself off if your shoulder is dislocated or your eye socket is broken. That was Myles Garrett-level scumbaggery. Ramos should have been banned for an extended period. The fact he wasn't helps explain what happened yesterday.

I checked this thread and the one celebrating Chelsea’s victory, and was pretty surprised to see so little mention of the fact that a Chelsea player not only concussed, but broke two bones in the face of City’s best player. https://sports.yahoo.com/bruyne-faces-race-euro-facial-104139938.html I don’t have a horse in this race. But as much as I love the Horns, if we won something big but one of our players, in the process, showed himself to be a cheap-shot artist of the highest order (the Chelsea dude actually faked a head-to-head collision after delivering the blow with his shoulder) it would temper my enthusiasm. I would still claim the victory, but would accept and acknowledge the victory was tainted. Chelsea fans, apparently, not so much. But then this is English football, so...

Exactly. The Navy is the National Enquirer of US military branches. Wake me when the Marines weigh in.

Lot of road rage shootings in various parts of US. https://www.ajc.com/news/at-least-14-shootings-on-metro-atlanta-roadways-this-year-leave-4-dead-others-injured/TP7DEXUGHRAKNGZRHZPRFZ7WRU/ At what point will people begin to discuss the need to have car cams for this purpose? Or maybe that won't happen. But it seems like things might be trending in that direction.