Rougarou

Do you know why you'd be doing that? Because China sucks!

Not sure how my response got embedded into yours. You said: So yea, China is the cause, so what? What's the world's recourse? If Trump wants to blame China, fine. They deserve it. But the two are not mutually exclusive. You can blame China AND get your shit together for a response to really address the virus issue short term and long term. 100% agree with you here. So you asked the question, what's the recourse? Up until now it's been to pretend that calling out China for starting this pandemic due to it's barbaric (with respect to the West's) cultural practice of wet-markets, where the 1% eat pangolin brains and monkeys and tiger genitalia because of the thrill and pseudoscience sexuality is racist. I'm not even sure if kicking out the consulate in Houston is a recourse to Covid-19, it sounds like it's probably in response to other geopolitical fights, but you know what? I'll take it for now.

I think you can land in a place where you can assign requisite and fair amount of blame to China while also not making an excuse for the President. I could be wrong, and this is where everyone is pointing to how stupid we are as a country and how broken our system is and how people are polarized and unreasonable, but I don't believe that to true outside of the internet and twitter. Maybe I just surround myself with a better class of people and am not seeing the reality of it all, though. Anyways, China sucks. Let's go!

I think you are right and most people would agree with you. I also think the rise in "Globalization, Bad" thinking is rooted in everything you've just said. When the world is flat via globalization you end up with a parabola, where the axis of symmetry and vertex is at 0, so that on one side you have those that benefit (all the way up the first quadrant where the 1% benefit down to the upper-middle class to a no-benefit/no-cost at 0) and those that are hurt (all the way up to the second quadrant where the child/slave labor and human rights violations victims are down to the poor and uneducated to a no-benefit/no-cost at 0).

I mean, you aren't wrong. This is why history is written by those who can solve big problems, I guess. But I guarantee you that the brightest minds in technology, and specifically USA/Silicon Valley, are paying attention and seeing China as a threat-- maybe those brilliant (and morally flexible, cut-throat) people can figure something out for the heartland.

This is all true and right. We can't get in a time machine and change it, so let's do what we can to fix it, right? The only problem I have is with your last statement. The narrative should have been "it's China's fault" from the jump. It's the literal origin story of the virus. It's China's fault that covid-19 exists and spread. That is a fact. Now, you can't put the complete and full impact and deaths directly on China because we as a country were also complicit in our idiocy (up to and including Trump), but that doesn't mean that aggression, in some form or another, to China should not be brought to bear. Maybe even just whatever the diplomatic equivalent of a hard slap to the back of the head. I mean, at least a rolled up newspaper and quick smack on the nose! Anyways, China sucks.

You won't find much argument from me that Trump has negatively impacted our ability to gather around with our European peers and hold our nose and pretend to have the high moral ground when it comes to much to do with China. As stated above, though, "It is tempting to blame the tension between the two countries on Trump, but the truth is that China, particularly under Xi Jinping, has been significantly hardening its rhetoric and actions since before Trump was elected, and has been committed to not just catching but surpassing the U.S. in technology for years. There is a fundamental clash of values between the West and China, and it is clear that China is interested in exporting theirs." The China situation is bigger than Trump. It's going to outlast and outlive Trump's presidency. Trump is a speck of dust on a gnat's butt, compared to the China problem in the macro, is my position. That's why regardless of the leader, the tact, skill or polish in execution, we must do things now. Like with planting a tree, the best time to deal with the China problem was 10 years ago. The second best time is today.

No, it's more akin to Mexico/Cartel violence and organization. I think a solution that is not being put on the table is to have leadership/law meet with South Side Chicago gangland leaders and negotiate some sort of truce or peace. It won't happen because that would be like admitting South Side Chicago is in a state of failure and too far gone, which we can't do for ego purposes, but it would sure help to save lives in the short term until holistic change can be affected.

I disagree. Especially if there is the evidence of a complete lack of remorse evidenced by the re-opening of wet markets in the middle of a global pandemic, which was created by the existence of wet-markets. It's the exact type of insubordination that comes when you know there is nothing anyone can or will do about it. We need to do something about it, and even to your point, if it is symbolic or toothless in nature, it's something. It's a gesture and it's a start. That's why I was excited to hear we are kicking China out of Houston, for now. Let's see.

Getting dunked on by a virus exported from China, ergo, dunked on by a virus with an alley-oop and assist in the box-score from China while America tripped over it's shoelaces trying to play defense. My position is and always has been China is absolutely complicit in COVID-19 and there should be punishment. To what degree they are complicit and to what punishment looks like, I think should be discussed in a healthy and open debate and think reasonable minds can find a reasonable toll to exact.

And maybe we've all heard of a little algorithm company packaged and sold as a teenagers app called TiKTok? China's abilities and influence is only growing; rumors of their technology abilities sucking are exaggerated in my opinion and I see them as a clear and present danger. And yea, politically and personally and emotionally, I'm inclined to want a pound of flesh and have them pay and see punitive response to Covid-19's rise from wet markets (especially since wet markets are back already). I see zero issue in laying Covid-19 at the feet of China and/or calling this the Chinese flu and think there should be damages, whether sued for peace civilly or through diplomatic aggression or war. So I'm happy to see they are kicked out of Houston and let's lock in and see where we can take this, in a smart and pragmatic way (which, the bold, may be asking too much in 2020. But we have to do something.)

Also speaking of tech, I'd be remiss if I didn't add that Alibaba is absolutely a beast and continues to spawn value. This week they announced their alibaba pay (ant pay I think it's called now) has 1.3bn users, valued at $200bn dollars, and is helping China to do with finance what we want to do with tech-- that is to separate dependence and carve out their own which they did by announcing the IPO will skip NASDAQ and be only available on HK Stock Exchange and Star Market. Star Market is China's 1 year old NASDAQ rival in Shanghai. This is obviously a play to be self-sufficient and independent from Wall St./America. Oh and by the way, last time I checked Alibaba Cloud is quietly the 3rd largest Cloud Provider behind Amazon and MSFT and ahead of Google and Oracle.

This is why the only way to deal with China is to actually have a war. I think this could be accomplished with a type of Cold War with a smattering of skirmishes, but there is always the risk of full-out, mutually assured destruction type war which would cripple the US in the short-term. But at least you have your unification and alignment on bringing things back. Just follow what is going on with semiconductors the past 3 months. Intel has fallen so far behind Taiwan (which means China, due to their nefarious geopolitical relationship) that America has had to get Taiwan Semiconductors (TSMC, which you may recognize is now the world's largest semiconductor manufacturer) to build a chip factory in Arizona because our homegrown chip companies suck and we can't even de-risk and try to separate our growing dependence on China/Taiwan without having them involved domestically. This will be a second-generation chip by the time the fab is finished with construction in 2024 which highlights just how far behind Intel is (by the way Nvidia passed Intel this past week, as a topical aside).

I think he meant "hard to believe that at one time it was the top grossing movie of all time."

Lol “toilet paste” as it pertains to China and our outsourcing to them and how it’s conditioned us in a sad way, is a great Freudian slip.

Pay a decent wage AND items get crazy expensive that consumers are conditioned to get cheap. Toilet paste is out of the tube; I read somewhere an iPhone would cost close to $2500 if it were made in USA, as an example.

Yes, lately. Their impact on US, directly and materially, first and foremost. And they aren’t going to sink back behind any wall, whether it be a Great Wall or Great Firewall, they are a true and powerful world force on par with America. That said we needed to do something beyond a firmly worded tweet.

Let’s go!!!!! I’m glad to see a hard stand to China right now. Not rooting for full on war, because I think that’s a lose/lose, but am encouraged we are doing something to push back on all of China’s horribleness lately.

Houston officials say official documents are being burned in the courtyard of the Chinese Consulate, and first responders are not being allowed in to put out the fire.

Is it related to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_bag

But why? Are they essentially burning evidence a la companies shredding paper trail documents to avoid evidence? I guess I've never heard of this. Also, am glad to hear it because I've been vocal and on record that China needs to pay.

What does this mean? Documents being burned?

My brain is so toxic and warped and patriarchal white-privilege-history-learned and horrible that I can only see the thread title as Gestapo in Poland. Seriously, it trips me up every time I leave and come back and glance at it. Something about an invasion ~80 years ago I guess.

This has definitely shown me that....well, I am not sure how to characterize it. I guess I'd say that we need the deus ex machina of modern medicine/magic from the powers that be, because we are collectively too large a human, global population to be efficient and intelligent, as a whole. In a lot of ways, globalization has made us weaker but I think coronavirus has highlighted it, too. We are much less as the sum of all the parts then we are individually and this is why tribalism and homogeneity will always prevail, it can literally be an existential issue.