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Posts posted by DFW Horn
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8 minutes ago, JBJ said:
It is worded this way:
"When in question a pass thrown in or behind the neutral zone is forward rather than a backwards pass."
That's rule 2.19.2.b. It is a reviewable ruling.
If it's reviewed after the flank blows it dead, does the defensive team retain possession at the spot of the recovery? What if the whistle is blown before COP?
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13 hours ago, XForce said:
Depth at DE is zero yet Sanders can’t be convinced to play defense this season? Watch the DL rotations.
Sanders hasn't cracked the TE rotation yet due to, what, poor blocking? I'm not saying PK shouldn't try him at DE, but he may not have the functional strength yet to handle the job. But, to your point, he can't do much worse than Bush.
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1 minute ago, Tex Pete said:
Watching our games, it is extremely subjective. Lincoln Riley always gets what he wants. Maybe our coaches should try saying something to the officials.
Well, that is Sark's job after all.
He should've been raising hell. I didn't notice. Maybe he's too "California cool"? IDK
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4 minutes ago, immamac said:
No amount of bitching gives the Longhorns a win. The game is over it's time to move on, at this point anyone saying that the refs weren't jobbing Texas is just an idiot. Complaining about it still makes you a fucking whiney asshole though.
UT wins 99 out of 100 games when scoring 48 points.
It's just venting at this point.
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Just now, Tex Pete said:
We've had several plays reviewed to call uncalled penalties. There is literally zero legitimate excuse why they can do that but not correct obvious errors on the field.
I saw the play from the upper deck across the field at the time it occurred and yelled about it. If I can see that and tell that it is at least close, an official standing nearby can see that. The replay guys can certainly see it. The question then becomes "Why did they do nothing about it?" They had no issue reviewing the fumble on the kickoff.
I said the same thing to myself while watching the game, "Was that backwards?"
But, then I heard the whistle and saw the H rule incomplete and let it go. Having never officiated an NCAA game, I honestly don't know what plays are subject to instant replay review and which aren't. Maybe I'll take a deeper dive into the NCAA Rule Book to find out.
Keep in mind that rules, mechanics, and "points of emphasis" change every year.
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1 minute ago, Tex Pete said:
It was a backwards pass. It was a live ball. This is not confusing whatsoever.
You should call the NCAA and volunteer to don the whistle and stripes ASAP, because you've obviously got superior vision and judgement than most mere mortals. I'm not confused about the rules whatsoever. I'm trying to explain why it was interpreted as a forward pass.
Reading comprehension fail
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Just now, taybo20 said:
It’s kind of the play review was made to help with tho at the same time. Let the play, play out if it isnt extremely clear then use replay to determine if it indeed was forward.
what pisses me off is in that situation and the Williams fumble it was ruled dead immediately which sucked as we got the ball both times
Agreed
Maybe the mechanic should read, "when in doubt, don't rule on a forward/backwards pass". It's mind-boggling to me what instant replay is permitted to correct versus what isn't. I never had it as a crutch, though. Must be nice.
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11 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:
Whether it was reviewed or not, it wasn't a forward pass, therefore it was a live ball with a clear recovery by Texas.
By the strictest definition in the NCAA Rule Book, yes, a ball thrown 3 inches backwards should be a live ball. I'm just saying most flank officials will probably rule the pass in question forward at game speed depending on his perception, viewing angle, and sight line.
In my opinion, this call wasn't the most egregious error made that day. It's an honest mistake.
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41 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:
I'm just trying to explain why there was no instant replay on the forward/backward pass ruling based on my understanding of NCAA mechanics. Having not officiated in awhile, things may have changed regarding what plays are reviewed and which aren't. If the H
already "punched it back" andruled it incomplete on the field, it won't be reviewed.CORRECTION: The H and L will only "punch it back" - with an arm extended behind the LOS - if they're ruling a backwards pass.
My bad
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29 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:
If your interpretations are done out of expediency and not the letter of the rulebook, then you’re being taught incorrectly.
Do you really want every hold - by the letter of the law as written in the rule book - to be called? Even those that don't impact the play? This is what you're suggesting here.
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Just now, Nivek said:
It was a joke or rather an attempt at one. I was trying to lighten the mood in here. And apparently I nose-dived on that one.
I get it, you're pissed.
I'm just trying to explain why there was no instant replay on the forward/backward pass ruling based on my understanding of NCAA mechanics. Having not officiated in awhile, things may have changed regarding what plays are reviewed and which aren't. If the H already "punched it back" and ruled it incomplete on the field, it won't be reviewed.
FWIW, I was yelling at the TV on the ineligible receiver non-call and the Williams non-fumble. The many Holding no-calls are also making me ragey, now that I've seen a few more. I'm starting to think we really got fucked.
But, having done the job, I try to take the high ground when it comes to officiating and share what insights I have into their roles, NCAA rules, and their mechanics.
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5 minutes ago, Nivek said:
Do they teach that when a players upper body is being pulled toward the blocker yet his legs are going toward the ball carrier that is a forward pass?
If you ask a legitimate question, I'll attempt to answer it for you honestly. But, once again, I was just a 10-year TASO official who has a decent grasp on NCAA rules and mechanics. I don't know what Big 12 officials have been instructed or trained to do recently.
Fun Fact - TX and MA are the only two states whose high school associations play by NCAA Rules. All other states use NFHS rules and mechanics.
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8 hours ago, JBJ said:
In other words, a lateral pass behind the LOS is a forward pass when in doubt. The linesman to the side of the throw signals a pass backwards by raising his back arm straight out, which he did not do on this play because it didn't clearly move backwards.
Yep, that's the mechanic taught to both NCAA and TASO officials.
Unlike @Eskimohorn, you sound like you've actually called football before. Were you a flank official, too, at some point? Some of these guys should sign themselves up immediately with their incomparable vision, being able to discern a 3-inch margin on a "lateral" pass.
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22 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:
Based on your own words, you indicated that Big12 officials teach to give the benefit of the doubt of a sideways throw as forward pass ruling. When by rule anything not forward is a lateral.
I’m saying that Big12 officials rule this way to be expedient.
If officials cannot tell the difference then it should be determined to be a lateral because objectively a sideways throw is a lateral.
If you want to benefit one side, and not be controversial, maybe you’ll just rule its an incomplete throw so as not to be too severe on the offense. That’s horseshit.
Moreover, the defense should also know if sideways throws are forward passes or not so they can, in realtime, determine if there’s still a passing situation. Which was relevant this Saturday on that trick play and one of the reasons it worked. Because it looked like a forward pass was already made.You won't find the word "lateral" anywhere in the NCAA Rule Book.
If you're arguing that a Big 12 official shouldn't blow his whistle when in doubt, I agree. But, I really don't know what their official mechanics dictate or recommend. I just know how we were trained to handle a forward/backward pass without the benefit of instant replay.
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You were trained incorrectly. They’re making shit up to make it easier for offenses and to have less replays.
And you're basing this assertion on what, exactly? HS officials don't have access to instant replay. Reading comprehension fail.
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13 minutes ago, Nivek said:
What about 2 flinching o linemen? Cause that one play i am thinking of had two different guys move. No flag. Everyone else on tv saw it too. It wasnt a muscle spasm twitch either it was movement.Then it's a missed call by the U and/or C. Flanks should catch the OTs and TEs.
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45 minutes ago, ChickenNuggets said:
My two cents:
overly ripped refs with clear roid addiction piss me off as much or more so than their shitty incompetence.
less time in the gym fellas and more time perfecting your craft….
But, Poindexter is so imposing in his smedium shirt
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20 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:
I just think the stakes are way too high, coaches and players work way too hard every day, for it to be undone/fucked over by a bunch of incompetent fucknut refs who don't work or practice nearly as hard as the players they're officiating.
Agreed, but I'd have to watch the game in its entirety again - sober - to see if the refs fucked OU on a few calls too. We're obviously seeing a lot thru our burnt orange glasses. But, yeah, it still hurts.
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Just now, dcar00 said:
you are correct I should have said just champ games. totally understand in high school with no replay you rule in favor of the O if it is close at game speed. its a new day on those type of plays with replay in college and NFL.
In theory replay should limit the fuckery but there are ways around it and the officials know them. not reviewing the QB fumble, this play, and the pick up of the hat on the "forced out" play are inexcusable. missing the false starts is inexcusable also. if you miss those how the fuck can I expect you to see stuff at game speed.
No argument from me regarding the ineligible receiver and Williams fumble. Those should've been corrected by the replay booth. To your point, it's probably best if flank officials don't blow the play dead if there's any doubt about forward/backward pass too.
False start should be easy to call, but a flinch by the OL is sometimes imperceptible at game speed. I don't want those calls being overly scrutinized by replay. Games are already too long, IMO.
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1 hour ago, Had Enough said:
And DFW horn, tell Walt Anderson I’m still waiting on my email response from 2008.
Yeah, don't hold your breath...
His kid taught one of our seminars. He was a douche, too.
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39 minutes ago, dcar00 said:
In high school there isn't replay except in playoffs. they are supposed to let something that close like that go and let replay sort it out at the college and NFL level now.
I'm unaware of any replay for TXHSFB other than championship games @ JerryWorld.
If officials are being told not to rule on this now, it's a change in policy. Makes sense with instant replay, but it wasn't what was taught when I was officiating.
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5 minutes ago, immamac said:
Anyone who doesn't thing UT was jobbed by the referees is a fucking idiot. That isn't the reason for the loss, but it is the reason the game was close. Without the Xavier fumble Texas wins and we still point out all this stuff. Sark as the leader of the team cannot blame the refs. He needs accountability within the locker room. Once this team becomes what it needs to I have every confidence that sark will chew refs out and call them out in pressers.
I saw quite a few OU holding calls that probably should've been flagged, but IDK why Big 12 officials would "have it in" for UT with OU leaving the conference too. I don't think there's any conspiracy which includes Bowlsby directing them to fuck us. At least, I hope there isn't.
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1 minute ago, JesusSweatDuck said:
I have no problem with the call on the field, although they could have not blown the play dead and let it finish. I have a bigger problem with no call down from the booth for a review. THAT was the problem and was the problem multiple times.
I officiated TXHSFB for 10 years and worked both HL and LJ. At game speed, on-the-field I'd probably rule that pass incomplete too. Flank officials are trained to blow it dead immediately in that situation. We were also trained, by Big 12 officials at our seminars, to rule "laterals" as forward passes when in doubt.
This pass is too close to call at game speed and when in doubt, it will oftentimes be ruled incomplete. It sucks, but I think the QB drifting back gives it more of the illusion of being a backwards pass.
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Tackling
in Football
Posted
Old school, "head across the bow" and "see what you hit" tackling endorsed by DKR in his video isn't being taught as much due to concussion and CTE concerns.
I think the rugby-style has merit, but you've gotta wrap up and drive or roll.