Stilicho

Yeah, but this is Rick Scott we're talking about here.

That pic has to come from a selfie stick. Rosco scooters just don’t have that sort of visibilty clearance.

The real question is what sort of “norms” do the 40+% of Trumpkins pretend to abide by? 2020 will tell the story of how this country truly views itself. Are we a country willing to embrace the never ending march of progessivism and enlightenment that led to our founding... Or... Do we decide to skip down the Mack Brown path of FUPM and burn it all down in spite of ourselves.

Fear and loathing. Mostly fear. And a pretty unhealthy dose of greed as well.

Says the guy responsible for refreshments at the bi-weekly breakfast for the Bumfuck County, Alabama Chapter of the GOP.

I agree, and if it needs to be moved to non-political forum, I'm all for that. However, I have found it difficult to sometimes separate the tactics of a military commander without taking into consideration the socio-political environment in which they operate. I think most of the more famous, or infamous, military commanders are often shadowed by such environments. The tactics of Alexander, Caesar, Henry V, Gustavus, Napoleon, etc. can all be seen through numerous lenses, one of which happens to be their own socio-political leanings. But to the point of the previous discussion, how do you differentiate Petain from Rommel when both seem to have followed the same "blueprint" in regards to supporting a regime in which they did not believe in for the sake of protecting their own? And, if it is simply a matter of tactics and "who won the last battle", why would Zhukov not be just as viable a candidate for Allied commemoration as Rommel? He was an actual Allied commander and it can be argued that he was an even more brilliant tactician than Rommel.

@Lobo Here... now we can be friends again. And get the conversation out of that dreaded Kanye thread. @hayden_horn If this needs to be moved somewhere else, so be it. I didn't want to bog down the Daily Texan with the political talk that such a thread will inevitably invoke.

But was he not looking out for his the well-being of his country and fellow countrymen? Did he not sign a devil's bargain to defend a controversial government, not because he actually believed in the government, but because he believed that by supporting it he could limit the damage to a country he had so famously defended two decades prior? I understand why history takes a dim view of Petain. Because he failed to emerge victorious in the last battle history recounts. But you pose the same basic arguments as to why history, specifically Allied history, respects Rommel. If it's simply a matter of tactics and results and political beliefs, as you point out above, than why isn't Zhukov considered at least the equal to Rommel in Allied war colleges?

It's Nazis all the way down bro.

I don't believe they're Nazi sympathizers, inasmuch as they adhere to Nazi principles. They do opt for a sort of "hero worship" that dovetails nicely with late 1940s and early 1950s belief in "the good German" as a means to rebuilding the German state to serve as a battleground for the Cold War. The fact that that he wasn't an officials member of the party and that he committed suicide during the fallout of the July 20th plot, again gives them the leeway to play fast and loose with history. Here's a question for you: Why does history and, in your example, military historians take a lesser view of Petain than they do Rommel?

Thousands upon thousands? I actually do happen to be a student of history, with a fancy diploma and everything, and the Rommel Myth has been fleshed out pretty clearly by historians and journalists alike. The reasons why "half dozen Allied war colleges" hold such positions is due more to hagiography and national pride than true history. Rommel was not a "card carrying" member of the Nazi party, but he was an early champion of Hitler and Hitler's rise to power. He was, on top of being a pioneering field marshall in terms of mobilized infantry and tank warfare, a political opportunist and fortune seeker. Historically, he appears to have found very little "controversial" about Hitler's reign and subsequent war until reversals in North Africa, the Eastern Front, and his own failures in Normandy. His ties to the July 20th plot have always been somewhat specious and hard to pin down, thus adding a patina of legitimacy to the myth itself. To be honest, he is no more deserving of "respect" from Allied soldiers than his Nazi-turned-American collaborator Wernher Von Braun. But public perception and a desire to one up the Soviets in the Cold War led to a recasting of specific Nazis and Nazi-supporters as "good Germans". This is pretty evident in the American push and subsequent enactment of the Marshall Plan as a means to rebuild West Germany into a bulwark against the "dreaded" spread of Stalinism. I do, however, agree that this probably isn't the thread to be arguing over old WWII debates. Specifically since its about a narcissistic lunatic like Kanye West. @hayden_horn is there an appropriate forum to start a thread about these age old debates?

I assume there's going to be a limited amount of scotch on such a crowded ledge. I'll take the rum. I've always been a cheap and somewhat tasteless drinker.

Kanye West. Robert E. Lee being dogwhistled at a Republican rally in Ohio. The Rommel Myth. All being defended in 2018 American politics. @Brisketexan I hope you have a top shelf barrel of rum out on your ledge.

The one where the entire university didn't try to cover up a massive rape scandal for football relevancy?

Texas 40 Baylor 17

Yeah. I'm going to go with this.

Texas 34 ou sucks 27

What a wonderfully Kavanaugh-esque response. Dodge the question and throw in a “but Clinton” for bonus points.

Texas 37 KState 13

TCU 34 Texas 24

USC 24 Texas 20

Texas 38 Tulsa 20

But Democats were the original racists! Robert Byrd! /FCHorn

Listen. We can both be on the same ledge. You with your bourbon and me with my $6 vodka. Life sort of kicks you in the balls in that respect. But the multiverse... that's where it's at Brisket.

The football board is 1000x worse than the politics board. Let that sink in for a moment. Then take another shot of vodka.