DonkeyCigars

Speaking just for myself, of course, I would reward activity (swift, decisive and smart activity) here and weight that over results, because of everything you said about the nature of the enemy. With the eyes of every two-bit extremist, would-be terrorists and wannabe upstart on you, you've got to make a point. It's not about the one ant, it's about keeping all the other ants in line.

I don't think that will be good enough. I think that would miss the mark and be a day late and a dollar short. I don't think that a "checking the box" approach to retaliation does much to help politically or emotionally, but I also don't necessarily agree with your estimation-- I felt like Biden's words and tone in his presser today was more in the realm of conviction than impulsiveness-- an impulsiveness you seem to think that his handlers and brass will talk him out of and cool him down from. Maybe I'm being naive now, but I hope his words tonight were not so cheaply stated.

As of tonight, Biden's response and commitment to retaliate was satisfying. By being swift and decisive I thought he responded with the gravity and seriousness needed and overall I thought was a leadership moment for Joe B. It's what I expected from the leader of the USA, no matter what side of the aisle or name on the back of the jersey. What tactics or specifics would be satisfactory? I think his response there was a good one and captures my response to you well: Biden, like me, not being a military man and not wanting to pretend to be, asked his commanders for options. Get your options and make an optimal decision, that's a fair deal.

I disagree. Doesn't matter who is President, they theoretically hold the keys to the greatest army in the known world. Doesn't matter who is at the helm, if that person says I'm going to dispatch vengeance, you ought to believe it and know that check is guaranteed to be cashed. That's the theory, at least, and I'm actually proud of ole Joey B for his response and seeming conviction. It means way more than the empty "the buck stops here with me" from a couple of weeks ago. That was just talk, if the buck really stops with you than that extends beyond just the initial action, but to the entire case-- to the fall-out and secondary and tertiary consequences and responses. Biden was rad for his response, now let's see him action upon it.

You give an interesting story from a book and conclude that "I guess it's part of the job of the President to act angry [and emptily gesture a response or retaliation when things like this happen]". I disagree and think that it's part of the job of the President to actually be angry when something like today happens, and to make those who dare bring violence and death to one of us, see those actions answered, swiftly, and with prejudice, because to act otherwise is a moral hazard. Obviously there is calculus that needs to be done (e.g. this situation, which seems a slam dunk, versus, say, responding to Russia or China who can and will make life very painful for us), but it would appear changing course briefly to exterminate those too dumb to immediately hide after this sucker punch, a bunch of idiots who couldn't help themselves and hold their water until we were out the door and out of earshot, seems like a low calorie effort comparatively.

Joe Biden said this: It seems awfully (politically) foolish to be state your anger and intention to retaliate in such declarative ways if you don't really mean it and it's empty words. That's asking to be politically dunked on and a very glaring error, which makes me think you are wrong and that Biden is sincere. And I think a lot of Americans, including yours truly, appreciates that

I want to get to the meat of your posts, but I can't just let this slide so let me ask it first: are you suggesting that Biden is paying lip-service and is being inauthentic in his anger and passionate words in response to retaliation here for the deaths that happened today? Are you suggesting he is playing the part of the savvy, veteran politician and playing the game?

So, what does that mean you are saying about Joe Biden and those who feel the way he does? Are you saying Joe Biden is a meathead and juvenile (on this matter)? And maybe you are right, maybe it's immaturity to have a retaliatory policy and it reeks too much of Hammurabian harshness. I don't know about you, but I take comfort in knowing The Dude America abides. It feels good knowing that if you Mr. Foreign State makes an American bleed, you and yours bleed worse. And when the state stops making her citizens feel good (safe, secure, happy, etc.) then it's on perilous ground. We've seen that push back from some folks domestically, and a little too close to home in our streets a bit lately, haven't we.

When picking the stone on a new build, I was told to pick 3 options and rank them and they would try to accomodate, but that I was only guaranteed one depending on the supply.

So...Joe Biden saying this is what? Patriotic or Not-Patriotic, based off your standards? "We will not forgive. We will not forget. We will hunt you down and make you pay,". And I ask because I disagree with you. I think there is a utility and usefulness to advance the American state (and the safety, security and power of America at home and abroad) and unify folks around a shared sentiment of emotion, by reacting and retaliating because we are mad. There is a healthy and righteous anger that I think can be patriotic. Now, specifically, is it patriotic to be angry and retaliate and fight fire with fire with a population of people who can't help but take potshots and attack you behind your back as you are actively trying to get the heck out of their hair? I personally think so. So does Joe Biden and I think that is cool of him, as our President. And maybe that's just my personality, but for perspective: one of the least patriotic things I thought Trump did was to do nothing when North Korea handed over Otto Warmbier and said "oops, must have fell down the stairs in the dark and it was an accident but, uh, here is the body, kthnx bai". I thought inaction and non-response was the worst sort of politics and the opposite of patriotism.

Are you saying that retaliation for today isn't patriotism? I was with you up until that point, which I may have misconstrued. And everyone in CR can take a lesson from the bolded; it's okay to be honest and not just knee jerk to "what-about-ism" with Trump.

That guy who kicked the crates out from under the cop has balls the size of church bells. Surprised he didn't instantly get up and fire some off.

Also and maybe it's own thread as it's only tangentially related, but I've been reading up a lot about Motorcycle Gangs and the players there with their geographic spheres of influence and the "Big 4" and it's fascinating stuff. Every city has MC's running drugs and murders and they have their clubhouses and meetings and colors and patches and just party all the time-- it sounds like being in a fraternity forever. I get the appeal tbh.

What about Dallas or Texas in general? I assume defunct, but I can remember a time when everyone had a Campisi story.

I was more proud and happy that Joe Biden intimated retaliation ("“We will not forgive. We will not forget,” he said from the White House. “We will hunt you down and make you pay.”) today than with the cheap and easy rhetorical trick of "The buck stops here! I'm the leader and I take responsibility and ownership" blah blah lip service that a bunch of naive suburbanites in middle management lapped up because it's such a familiar middle management virtue signal. Heck yea Joey B, I love that energy! He's here to chew gum and kick Taliban butt who messes with the bull--- and he's all out of gum. I'm here for this Joey Biden.

That rocked.

Agreed, it's good stuff. I agree the "caveat emptor" stance is the bottomline here. That said, there are some obvious and not-so-obvious failures in strategy and execution that is causing some real foreign policy political damage and, ultimately and tragically, costing lives. Lessons will be learned and heads will roll as fall-out at a minimum. If this thing gets any worse, the other side of the aisle is going to have a lot of material to work with come election season, especially if it gets sloppy on the run-up to 8/31 and it looks like we are kotowing to the demands of terrorists and playing by their timelines.

Not saying it is the case with masks, but I think the cheap scanners that you point and shoot at peoples foreheads to see if they have a fever or not is mostly wasted effort and energy and definitely a false sense of security. 100% especially if that is the only thing you are doing before someone enters your school or business. Nobody I know ever had a fever when they had Covid-19.

Definitely don't send the 7th grader to school.

I had a family member get a Pfizer vaccination recently on the heels of the announcement who had been holding out. Good stuff.

"Don't let great be the enemy of good"

David Foster Wallace must be happy and proud and laughing from his grave.

Now do the milk crates.

That's gold. It can only go down from here.