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Had Enough

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  1. The context in this thread was if Sam was an NFL caliber QB. VY showed great improvement year to year and 2005 was his ending note before going pro. Sam had 4 good to very good years. He also is high on several UT career stat lists because he started for 4 years and we threw the ball a lot. 
     
    If you just want to debate “greatest college QB” with no context, did he win a lot of rivalry games or conference championships? If you only go by stats, players like Colt Brennan and Timmy Chang will launch a rainbow up his ass. Being the best UT QB of the decade is nothing to be ashamed of. 

    It moved away from Sam being an NFL QB but was beginning to evolve to his passing skills. My point in bringing up Vince was to say the Qb run game was critically important to both their games so focusing entirely on their passing abilities doesn’t give their game its full due.

    I’m not debating whether Vince is the greatest of all time but some people feel that way. In my opinion they don’t feel that way mostly due to his passing.

    Leinart would be considered a better passer by the majority but that doesn’t make him the better Qb.

    Stats without context can be misleading. No doubt.
  2. His last year at Texas he was 3rd in the country in passing efficiency ahead of Matt Leinart and Brady Quinn.

    Point taken. Point still stands. That was one year of his career. Obviously he had to throw to make it work, but he’s not at the top of the list as strictly a passer. Runner? Maybe. Young needed arm and feet week after week to beat you. That doesn’t mean there were weeks in which his arm alone couldn’t get it done. His passing game and rating were enhanced because of his run game.

    I suppose Kansas was his sophomore year as was the OU shutout.

    If you’re talking greatest of all time, it is unlikely I’d base it on one year. If I did, Burrow is that guy. And certainly as a passer. I wouldn’t go by efficiency cause that probably makes Baker very high ranking.
  3. It’s just something some QBs have and some don’t. Can’t put numbers on it but it’s what separates the average from good and good from great. Brees is exceptional at it and so was Manning

    I ain’t debating nothing but Brees rated high even to the very end of his career on those pff accuracy ratios. My guess is that would be the case every year of his career.
  4. I’m really not. Anticipating guys coming open has always been an element of QBing. It always will be. But risk is absolutely an element of anticipating. More anticipation equals more risk. Risk will entail a greater interception rate but potentially bigger rewards. Often stronger armed guys are bigger risk takers so ultimately they will have more of these wow throws.

    But it is impossible to quantify that so yeah my scenario is bogus to an extent. Ultimately it’s just a catch phrase that isn’t well defined because it’s merely based on a feel and includes some but not all anticipated throws with some wow factor added in.
    I’ve heard it used often. It’s not universally used or again quantified. PFF probably has something close but it’s not really used by announcers and talking heads.

    But that’s fine. Y’all win. Not worth a debate.

  5. Well sure that 5% matters if they are otherwise equal. So I guess we’re saying Card has better “arm talent.” Card may win the job but it will be the totality of his game. Even if he is capable of fitting the ball into tight windows, the rest of his game must be on par with Thompson. Just an opinion but I don’t think it comes down to that.

    Tom Brady pretty much sucks in several accuracy categories per pro football focus. His bad ball percentage and accuracy rates were amongst the worst in the league last year. Like Carson Wentz/Drew Lock level. Infer of that what you will.

    My inference is that a lot goes into the QB play. But many fans, even today, view Brady as a very accurate Qb.

    Would you rather have the 65% accurate guy with none thrown open or the the 65% guy with 5% thrown open with a 1% higher INT rate?

  6. Card's ability to throw WRs open will be the difference at the end of the day. A subpar WR group will look miles better when the QB artificially creates a couple yards of separation. 

    Can you define “throw(ing) WRs open?” Does a back shoulder throw fall into that definition?

    And then let’s extrapolate from the spring game. Is that 5% or less of throws? If so, that won’t make a difference.

    All QBs with any amount of throws have many completions in which the WR is not really open.

    That Farve guy probably has the all time record of throwing guys open. He also threw lots on INTs.

    I’m just not sure how one can artificially create separation. It’s ultimately a calculated risk. Is Card a bigger risk taker and will this staff allow that risk to be taken? To me that’s the question.
  7. Seems we have a take that a QBs passing ability is the totality of his game in college.

    I’m guessing some of those dudes might say Vince Young is the greatest player of all time.

    If you believe he is that, it is not because of his passing abilities. He may not even be a top 50 “passer” in college history. But when you can convert 3rd and 10 or 4th and 18, who the hell cares about those crappy plays on play 1-3. I mean how in the hell do you get into 4th and 18 against Kansas?

    I made the point earlier this year that running QBs will be less accurate than pure passers. Sam bitchers argued against that point. Fewer throwing reps over their lives most likely. Fewer in season reps. Possibly different body composition and weight training efforts. In game fatigue. Increased likelihood that more hits tighten up the body which impact the throwing motion. It is more difficult mentally too. The question is how much does it impact accuracy.

    And I’m not sure the Sam supporters spent much time saying he’s supremely accurate passer.

    Sams 4.8 speed is irrelevant for the NFL. He does have some unique running abilities as a QB. He reads blocks well. You won’t often knock him back 1 on 1. And find me anyone, anywhere ever that ran for a 1st on 3rd and 10 with a 1 man rush and 10 dropping into coverage.

    Sam will most likely never get a real shot as a starter. Maybe he doesn’t deserve one. But teams are dumb as shit if they all pass on drafting him. Not as dumb as passing on Poona but dumb nonetheless. These NFL guys mess their drawers often. JP Losman was never, ever accurate. Sam doesn’t have ideal size. He doesn’t have a natural release. He’s not a freak in the run game like Lamar or Cam. He’ll be drafted in the high rounds if at all so he won’t be given chance after chance like a Sam Bradford.

    You don’t make as many plays as Sam did with modest talent and coaching around you and not have something to you.

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  8. Jett Bush would disagree...
     

    Sure he played but I would have been curious to see him at Mitchell’s spot rather than backing up Ossai. He strikes me more as plays hard and finds the ball than taking on blockers or beating bigger guys one on one. And I’d like to think our dline could keep him clean.
  9. So if Brockermeyer is clocking as the fastest LB, it strikes me as curious that he’s never mentioned as an option. I’d think with the bloodlines and size that he’d be an option. It seems the PWO program gets Lb prospects yet those guys don’t show up as options. At LB, we need guys to do their job - be in the right spot, make the tackle. Yeah Jacques played some. Bush has played some but maybe miscast in his position.

    If we can’t find one more serviceable player at LBer, I’ll be surprised. Nothing spectacular. Just be reliable.

  10. what makes CW a good tackle is his athleticism. he has ability to move his feet, stay balanced, and play in open space keeping the rusher away from the qb.  unfortunately his arms aren't quite as long as what NFL scouts look for-  rushers in the NFL are longer and quicker and the extra inch or two make a big difference.  CW's inability to play guard in the NFL is due to his lack of strength.  he just doesn't have much of a base.  the hope was he'd grow into the position by now but that hasn't happened. by moving him into the interior you take away the necessity of playing in space, which is what he was good at, instead exposing his weakness on every play.  it's obvious to me he should have been moved to RT and la'el moved back to the interior but they haven't done that for whatever reason.  maybe has to do with him not being able to seal off on running plays. 

    PFF has Williams ranked as the number #16 guard in 2020. So top 25%. That’s not an inability to play guard. Maybe he hasn’t lived up to expectations but he’s certainly not exposed every play.
  11. So a deformity is better for throwing a football?

    Weird stuff. Wonder if NFL dudes view the photos and that impacts their perspective.

    He’s obviously grown taller in the picture on the right.


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  12. That ESPN article was a whole lot of nothing. I’m not sure that negative recruiting is a big deal if it were honest discussion. Putting out a flier in the open allows for honest counter arguments. I’m quite certain negative recruiting entails deceptive and inaccurate information so I’m not a fan.

    My personal dealings with Drew are limited but all positive. So I’ll go with him being a good dude at this time.


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  13. 10 wins is it. Holy hell. If you thought the coaching was poor last year and looking to be an upgrade this year, 10 is the answer.

    Every year, as was previously mentioned, teams have holes. Every year teams have guys step up. LBers. I might feel better about this group than any in 10 years. From a talent comparison, this years bunch is better than Bobino, Harris and Killebrew. Is Overshown playing in the NFL or not?
    Best upside RB in the league. Mature new QB. No way the Oline is not better if the coaching is. Good experience and ability at dline. Good talent, Experience at DB. Bucevski and Dicker are solid.

    1 play away from beating OU and ISU. Point being those are toss ups at this point.


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  14. It’s like some of you never watched Augie Garrido teams. Yes, I know titles. But his offenses were mediocre to sorry a little often. His tenure started off piss poor and he really only went as far as pitching staff took him. This is Pierces 4th season. 1 World Series appearance; 1 piss poor season. We’re 7-2 in conference with two road series wins. In game management offensively, Garrido wasn’t great.

    I don’t know how he’ll turn out but we’re doing well right now. The program he took over was average in its existing state. His tenure is TBD.


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  15. I know we wanna give the kid some more ab’s. But why would we start a lefty dh the day they have a lefty starter, makes no sense to me

    It doesn’t. Then considering Zubia has hit a couple out this weekend. Not sure it makes any sense.


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  16. We’ve got two guys with homers in less than 5 ABs. Yet little to no talk of more playing time. Our DH has not been overly productive but decent. Give those guys more ABs maybe.

    Daly based on his efforts is your 3rd hole guy. Williams bats behind. 4th or 5th is fine. Ardoin has not shown to be a 4 hole guy to date. Williams thus far has been more power than all around hitter/run producer. If he continues to show power, put him behind Zubia so Z can get more fastballs and guess less.

    You rail on Kennedy less so Antico. Kennedy’s OBP is .3 behind Hodos but he has the twice the steals and has not been caught. Plus Kennedy has proven in year’s past he can hit. Antico steals bases too but he’s been worse than both at the plate. Antico goes to 2nd or drops to 7th or lower until he heats up. I’d probably put Kennedy then Hodo. Kennedy can get himself to 2nd so less need to bunt. Friday versus OU we gave up two outs in the first two innings. Fir bunting. That potentially helped the OU starter settle in.

    Kennedy
    Hodo/Antico
    Daly
    Zubia
    Williams
    Ardoin/Faltine/DH or Antico
    Hodo

    As a matter of practice the two hole hitter being a designated bunter is not good baseball. It has to be situational. So maybe Daly at 2 is a good option. Antico or Kennedy are good 3 options if they play to their potential. Daly at lead off might be an option. Based on his numbers and skill set, Faltine could be a 2-hole hitter too. He strikes out too much but they all do.

    Even though we have a few that haven’t hit well, we don’t have any automatic outs. And we have flexibility across the board. The biggest question may be do you let them settle in at a spot or decide based on who’s hottest.


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  17. There’s a decent argument to be made their aggressive play should have led to more fouls. But you could also say not so in the tourney. I thought they played really sound defense most of the night - hence my comment about make the game about FG% and get extra shots and give them none.  I realize we focused on turnovers but if we had 10 second chance points, we win. Hell, 2 second chance points on paper.  It was clear we were in a dog fight for the whole game within 5-10 minutes and Texas didn’t adjust. The adjustment wasn’t - take care of the ball - the best turnover team in the country on paper was doing their thing.  You don’t beat them at the same thing when they are on their game, you struggle through and find another angle.  This needed to be a grind it out game and it was GOTDAMMED apparent ACU would give it to us on FG% if we would just rebound the fucking basketball - take their second chance points away and create our own second chance points.  That’s it, nope, let’s send all five guys back on defense when a three ball bounces off the rim. 

    This is certainly true. He’ll you lose by 1 doing any 1 thing better changes the outcome. Everybody knows who Shaka is a this point. Flawed in multiple ways.

    But there were bullshit calls on us. Cunningham called for the foul on the hustle rebound attempt. Just below your post, Pato referenced a bullshit call on Coleman. There was a non -call on Jones a foot from the bucket then similar contact on Ramey for a 3 point play at the other end. Their big guys were generally allowed to be physical which helps when you’re on the thicker side. And your confidence and aggression goes up when you’re allowed to play. Those 3 foul calls referenced above change the sequence of the last series because they wouldn’t be in the bonus.

    ACU plays their butts off. Good mix of size and quicks. Actually enjoyable to watch.


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  18. the game was called poorly i thought top to bottom. which i was trying to say before the internet police showed. yes, if was bad both ways. the last call at the end was definitley a questionable call. 

    This is not exactly correct. The only ACU guy in foul trouble was the expendable white dude and that was late. Teams that create a ton of turnovers also tend get called for quite a few fouls. That didn’t really happen. They were allowed to maintain their hyper aggressive play.

    We were not good. But they hit their free throws and got almost 20% of their points from last second or miracle shots.

    But we didn’t really get shit for all the favorable treatment we supposedly get.


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  19. Caden Sterns has been more detrimental to the program than Tom Herman, I'll put it that way.

    Long time Herman hater but I’d say ultimately he was not or will not be detrimental to the program. But our transition may be fortuitous.

    Caden Sterns not sure he’s added anything to the program. And if he bad mouthed it, then he’s likely a net negative.


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