cafe society
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Posts posted by cafe society
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18 hours ago, Underdog said:
The Pete/Issel matchups were legendary, was reported that Rupp would let Pete get his and try to control his teammates pretty much admitting there was no stopping Pete.
Edited to add, the ABA was such a fun league to watch, shame what happened to it and an even bigger shame that the Colonels didn't get in the NBA due to numbnuts John Y taking the money and ran.
The Colonels were damn good, having both Issel and Gilmore inside, and Dampier, Combs and Mount chunking in 3s left and right. The ABA was great fun, we used to go watch the Chaps at Moody Coliseum.
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You know, back then, you didn't get to see every game on television; there were selected games of the week on the college and pro level. I remember watching Maravich and his underdog Tigers taking it to a much better and deeper Issel-led Wildcat team one Saturday. Issel has been mentioned already, I would love to have seen his career entirely in the NBA. Magnificent all-around game for a big man.
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And I believe this was alluded to earlier, but had there been a 3-point line in college or the NBA sooner, Maravich would have set records not to be broken in our lifetimes. Teams would play box and one defenses to move him further out and try to prevent his deadly drive/pass but he would just move further and further out and continue to drain jumpers. Like I said, IMO, if he enjoys good health he becomes The Logo.
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2 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:
Let's just say that both Pistol and his teammates had to do some adapting. Lulz.
BTW, I wouldn't call Hudson a turkey. One of the more underrated players in NBA history, IMO. Could score, pass, and was a very rugged defender. Gave Jerry West and Clyde Frazier all they could handle in the late 60's and early 70's. His stretch from about '69 to '74 was top notch, and he was the reason Maravich began his career coming off the bench.
My point being that Maravich was playing at a level above proven NBA all-stars. I watched those games; it was an absolute embarrassment.
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4 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:
I wouldn't say there's a lot of "love" for him -- I mentioned him in passing, but specifically noted that he wouldn't make this list. As you alluded, he was an offensive-minded player who didn't have the all-around game that many others had. He was just another guy who could fill it up.
BTW, I'm not sure if your reference to the ABA is meant to imply that Vanderweghe played in the old league, but KV never played in the ABA.
Nah, just that he would've been perfect for thr striped ball league.
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1 minute ago, Carl Spackler said:
About 2" taller and 15# heavier. They did play different positions (Barry was a small forward while Maravich was a guard), but their styles had some similarities which is what brought Maravich to mind for me when thinking about Barry. Barry had his share of injuries as well, mostly early in his career when he was playing in the ABA.
As great as he was, I always wondered what Maravich would have done had he gone to the ABA instead of the Hawks when he came out of college. With that wide-open style, 3-point shot, etc., he would have torn it up, IMO. As it was, he had to adapt a bit to the more structured NBA.
I remember his time with the Hawks. They had lots of talent: Walt Bellamy, "Sweet" Lou Hudson, Lenny Wilkins, Walt Hazzard. Maravich was an eagle trying to bring turkeys up to speed. He would drive and dish and they were never ready for the pass - even though he hit them right in the hands. It was a fucking embarrassment. Yeah, had he gone ABA teams would have had a better opportunity to adapt to his advanced game.
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11 minutes ago, Underdog said:
Those early 70s Knick teams are my favorite, just a beautiful team to watch, Spurs remind me a lot of them. They were already a great team before adding both Monroe and Lucas.
Exactly. Dick Barnett - he of the leg tuck jumper as he yelped, "Fall back, Baby," was a former all-star relegated to a bench player. I'm not sure the Knicks ever go after Lucas the Magician without concerns over 'Willis Reed's knees. But yeah, they were deep and badass. Solid in every part of the game. When they rolled out Frazier, Monroe, DeBuscherre, Bradley and Reed they were a fucking force.
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23 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:
Rick Barry has gotten some mentions but not a lot of love on this thread. He was a great player. Tremendous scorer, great passer, and a decent rebounder. His defensive game wasn't anywhere near his offensive game, though. He could fill it up like few could. A lot of people are mentioning Maravich -- Barry had a similar flashy style (though not quite as visually entertaining) -- but Barry was probably the better overall player.
Tommy Chambers, Dan Issel, Billy Cunningham, Kiki Vanderweghe . . . probably not top 10 on this list, but each was terrific.
Barry was a lot bigger than Maravich. He was able to bang in the paint for boards. But... had Pete not had injuries (certainly not on the level of Walton) he would have been the logo.
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4 minutes ago, VirginiaLonghorn said:
First time I saw Earl Monroe in person was in Baltimore when he was still with the Bullets.
He would back his man down, then spin in a flash to shoot his deadly jumper. He was a magician .. he was “The Pearl!”
When he got dealt to the Knicks, he and Clyde made one of the deadliest backcourts in NBA history.
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What's with all the love for Kiki Vanderweghe? He was a completely soft, one-dimensional player, had he come along ten years earlier he would have washed out of the league quickly due to getting physically abused. He should be nowhere near this list. He was the perfect ABA marshmallow with a nice shot.
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Our lack of offensive rebounding is by design - Yacklich did the same thing at UM - so the defense gets back and set quickly. Offensively, sure, all teams go through shooting slumps, the issue is that our offensive "scheme" doesn't provide for a lot of Plan Bs or Cs, and the aimless perimeter dribbling and movement spawns a lot of bad habits, such as indecision, lack of creativity, and not recognizing openings when they occur. The pivot is usually open when it's "designed" to be, but our players are so perimeter brainwashed that they will stare down the low post until the defense reacts. Same with backdoors.
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10 minutes ago, closetojumping said:
He would have been considered a top 50, probably top 10 offensive player of all time without the cheating, really. Griffey Jr pretty clearly explained when Bonds decided to roid up and it was right around the time it was obvious that Bonds was going to be a 500/500 guy anyway. Griffey Jr plead with him to stay the course, as Griffey Jr did, but Bonds couldn’t handle being one-upped by McGwire and Sosa.
So I assume it was the winter after 1998. I read Games of Shadows when it came out and that is how my memory framed it. I haven’t revisited the subject in over a decade, so feel free to fact check. Pretty sure I’m on it or close. Bonds had no fucking reason to cheat other than his personal insecurities.
Baseball is my particular thing, and you have it exactly right. Bonds was always insecure, going back to ASU, because he was never a team player and, consequently, largely unpopular with teammates. He went crazier than a shit house rat over the adoration being heaped upon McGwire and Sosa. If he wasn't going to be beloved, he would - by hook or by crook - stomp on the accomplishments of those he petulantly envied.
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3 hours ago, KYHorn said:
No 247 profile. Here's his twitter. https://twitter.com/bigstayc
2019 6A triple jump champ. Also competes in long jump, 60, 200, 400 and 300 hurdles.

Non-Texas Recruiting 2021
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Once again, you have crystallized my very thoughts.