HoustonHorn

Have purchased from Chrono24 and Watchbox and all transactions have been very smooth. Same with Exquisite Timepieces, Westime in LA, and as far as I can tell, Oster Jewelry in Denver although I pre-ordered and won't get the watch until this summer. He did let me put a down payment on a yet unreleased model of a hard to get watch with no buying history. Plus the owner Jeremy is fantastic to talk to. PM me if you're looking for something and I can put you in touch with someone at each place except Chrono24 in which the communication is directly with the seller.

Yeah, it seems a little sketchy. Their pricing is out of line with the market and they have watches nobody else has. Allegedly. I'll steer clear. Thanks for the link, that confirms my suspicions exactly.

Still getting things organized between that and the twat and meta so possibly?? I think right now the headers are of a Florida sunset over the water (ironic right?). The profile pic is the sun reflecting of an H. Moser Pioneer that I took at the same time.

Any of you watch nerds on Instagram? Just started one @time.texas Most of what I end up posting probably should be in the other watch thread but figured the people in this thread are probably bigger watch people.

As an aside, anyone ever used WatchRapport.com? Legit?

That's gorgeous man. A truly beautiful and a historically significant timepiece. Congrats!

This is actually really good advice for any watch. I'm still in on the independents though for the next year. There's a lot of momentum and very limited supply so I think its worth the risk for the potential return. Plus I get to enjoy some really badass watches in the meantime.

I'm not much help, but definitely have it checked out by an independent, reputable watchmaker.

Response to NHWC. I would definitely start with the Omega forums or WUS Omega. But start communication with the seller in advance of doing that so you are first in line and keep someone from stealing it out from under you. No guarantee obviously. I dipped my toes into vintage, but quickly switched to independents. Vintage watches can be a great long term investment, but you really really have to get into the minutae and understand all of the details of what models/variations/etc. are popular and why. That is boring to me personally, but I know some people with pretty insane vintage collections. Also, they can be a pain in the ass compared to newer watches. Finally, for any long term holds, definitely factor in servicing costs. Vintage or new. These aren't off the shelf ETA/Sellita movements you can take to your local watchmaker/repairer and the costs can add up quickly.

I should add that there is a very bespoke feel to independent watchmaking. Definitely a much more upscale, luxury experience than haggling over what jewelry to buy to get into a submariner within a few months. That actually matters because buyers are getting frustrated with the Rolex experience. Not trying to bag on Rolex. The first "investment" watch I bought was a Rolex Kermit (up 10-15% this year already) and I'm working my way into an AD so I can move up their priority list in the future. Their marketing, inventory control, and model consistency is brilliant and turned it into an investment grade asset similar to PP/AP and now VC. And their business model has created a fundamental shift in many other watch/luxury brands looking to create a similar supply/demand profile - that's why many brands are dropping ADs and going to boutiques, slashing AD margins, and focusing on inventory control. Even if at this point its being done to create artificial scarcity, its working and grey market prices are generally going up across the board. Certainly the big 4 are the safer long term play and should continue to do well. But if you haven't spent 6 figures with any of the trinity brands already, you aren't going to get a sports watch from any of them for a long time. Rolex is possible, but very difficult without spending a lot of money to move up the list. It is definitely worth trying to establish those relationships now if you have the means because its hard to find any other investment with a guaranteed 25-100% return the second you walk out the door. But Moser entry level watches and Czapek sports models are available, although a little difficult to find. And imo, they are better and more unique pieces of craftsmanship. The independent community is very small and it is still very easy to make very good, close connections with the brands and even the watchmakers themselves in some cases. I've stayed away from micro-independents though because there will be limited demand for a one-off unique piece that you designed directly with the watchmaker. Plus, would you really want to sell something like that? And if you did, it would be pretty obvious as soon as that piece went on the market and you'd lose that relationship. Anything that custom should be for a personal, long-term collection, not an investment. But the best part is this all happening with pre-owned watches. So you can actually enjoy wearing some of the watches if you're careful with them. Get in with an AD or several (the availability varies significantly from AD to AD) first so you have access to future releases. Then buy pre-owned at or less than market value. Hold/wear lightly for the next 6 months to a year and see how things are trending. The biggest downside I see in the short term is loss of liquidity. That said, larger market forces or world war 3 could certainly change things, but in that case, none of your investments will be worth a shit and at least with this you have a beautiful watch or watches to enjoy through the end times.

Tough to get and quite expensive. Czapek Antarctique is about 50% of low end LF, Moser (Pioneer) about 33% of low end LF. And to be clear, the above isn't financial advice. Just my observations on the strengths of the company at this particular time in the current watch market. I'd love to have every brand above, but Moser and Czapek are the horses I've chosen to ride. If they do well maybe I can add a few pieces to the permanent collection. If they don't, then you probably won't see me on this thread for quite a while.

I'm into Czapek too. The Antarctique is special and hits the luxury sports watch with integrated bracelet market. Can be a little tough to get, but if you're willing to wait 6-8 months you can get them. Nearly unknown at this point. AnOrdain on the 2k or less spectrum. Waiting list only right now. Amazing enamel dials. Sartory Billard Ming for mostly lower $ luxury. Anything Kari Voutilainen is involved in. Groenfeld Kudoke Laurent Ferrier Rexhep Rexhep - not possible MB&F/Debethune - rare and definitely not for everyone. Machines on the wrist. Ressence - Also very different but extremely cool. Anything independent with low production should do well, but those above are really starting to take off. Micros - Halios, Farer, Brew, Dietrich, Orion are some that I've picked up lately to wear. These are getting some increased attention as well and for a few of those you can sell it used but in good shape for at close to or above retail for the most popular models for the foreseeable future. So...free watch. All are $1k or less. But mostly Moser. 1500 watches per year is very low - FP Journe is about 800. Patek is 60,000+. Legit history to the name and the family is still "involved" at least in a supportive role. This wasn't just a purchase/payout/cash grab which I think adds legitimacy the brand. In-house movements. Exciting, young CEO who is a 5th generation watchmaker and is heavily involved in the design process. His family bought the name maybe 10 or 12 years ago. Very passionate and is very innovative (see the Vantablack). . A much much better image than a stodgy old watchmaker. It's a brand that people can buy into easily and feel the excitement of being part of a small family. They make their own hairsprings which is very very rare. But more than that, they make the supply for pretty much the entire independent watch industry. So they are both insulated from outside risks and have incredible partnering opportunities. Had a recent successful collaboration with MB&F. Almost no traditional advertising but very effectively use cheeky, clever humor to get attention, see the Apple Watch or the Swiss Mad Cow unique piece as examples. They aren't really known outside of watch enthusiasts yet, but prices on popular models are at or higher than retail with the Streamliner matrix green selling for 37k when retail is 21k. Their more traditional entry level models are just now starting to get hot with pre-owned prices up 20+% in just the last few months. Extremely eye-catching watches. Perfect for IG but they are also in the same ADs as all the regular high end brands (at least the ones that are now left since many seem to be moving to boutiques only and dropping ADs). So you can physically see them before buying them which is very different from most independents. And if you've ever walked past them, you'll notice them. So brand recognition will be high among somewhat regular watch buyers, even if they are there for something else. Rolex is getting unobtainable and the money has to go somewhere. The entry level models are in the 14-22k range which is what people are paying for entry level Rolexes now and even more for some stupid colored OPs. But I digress. Compare a Moser dial to the OPs and it isn't even close. Demand for colored dials is there and Moser does it as well or better than anyone. So physically and cost wise they are in close proximity with grey market Rolex. In quality they are in a completely different league and those movements on the back are going to start selling watches as much as the dials. Rolex steel caseback compared to some incredibly decorated movements. IG Flex. No they aren't for everybody. This isn't your grandfather's watch. But they only need 1501 people to want one before demands starts to outstrip supply. I love them personally. Watchbox.com, watchbox.com, watchbox.com. $165M cash influx from Michael Jordan and other NBA players. One billion dollar valuation. Moser is one of their most highlighted brands. Throw a Mad "Bulls" Red Pioneer on MJ. Demand will skyrocket. In all honesty it will only take 1 really big name celebrity influencer to post one on IG and they will become extremely desirable. They are spring/summer watches, so I expect the new model releases at Watches & Wonders to really get excitement going and that momentum increasing through the summer. 2 years people have sat around searching the internet and finding alternatives to Rolex like Zenith, Omega, Grand Seiko. That leads to some exposure to these independent brands and to the fact there are better and different options out there. Moser sets up very nicely to fill that space over the next year or two. And its a pretty big step up from those brands in quality and hand finishing, but its also a big step up in value because production is so so so much lower than those big brands. Collectors who are interested in the brand have figured this out and prices are already going up. Throw on some media hype.... Yes, I'm in on Moser. Art for the wrist.

No, there is no better time to buy any luxury watch. Well maybe 6 months ago. Beautiful watch, enjoy it!

Amy and UUUU taking it on the shorts again. Would love this to turn around soon.

All the brands are moving to control inventory and many are moving away from ADs and opening boutiques so they can realize the increased demand and prices. This isn't going to stop for quite a while. It's a fundamental shift in the industry. Independent brands with limited production are exploding. Moser Streamliner went from selling at around retail or slightly less to 70% over retail just in the past few weeks.

For anyone with the means, I highly suggest developing relationships with ADs for brands you are interested in so you have the opportunity to make purchases at retail in the future.

Now is definitely the time to buy a watch or watches if you are thinking about it. EVERYTHING is going up right now. Very unique opportunity to get into luxury watches (that aren't Rolex/AP/PP/VC) and not lose money. This year is shaping up to be crazy for other brands, and especially luxury independents.

Very sorry to hear about your Dad.

Not yet. Needs at least one more full recruiting cycle to really get the money going. They've got this train running straight off a cliff. Money's going to get bigger and costlier. More 2nd and 3rd money grabs by recruits, more Eric Dickersons, and way more pissing off everyone in the SEC to the point they make a big enough stink about it either the NCAA or SEC has to step in. They aren't stopping this train now. It's going to be fun to watch it fall apart. They'll be the most despised team in the SEC after leaking the news about UT/OU, forfeiting like pussies, and now running up the prices for recruits for everybody. Sad really, since they are the most SEC SEC SEC school. Recruits will bail, players will portal. Jimbo walks into the sunset with his $100M leaving A&M in shambles. Longhorns join the SEC. SEC boots A&M. Insert [Randolph Duke-generated] entire Texas A&M system collapse. Remaining assets purchased by the University of Phoenix. Wait, what were we talking about?

Thanks for your ongoing insight into the legal aspects...it is very much appreciated for a non-lawyer.

Mind the gap.

Why is UUUU killing my AMY buzz?

Not quite to the level of the UG, but I really love Enicar. It's definitely on my list to get someday. Other priorities first though.

I only know of it because Im a big fan of Enicar watches in general and really want the Jim Clark Sherpa Graph. So I've come across a lot of racing chronographs associated with famous drivers (and their wives).

For anyone interested in high end brands, I suggest the Keeping Time podcast. Jeremy Oster has a lot of contacts in the industry that he interviews. Really great stuff.