bad_teammate

The DNC is not the Democratic Party. (This is going to get pointlessly minute, ugh)

Right, of course. Obama became the thing he hated, as many do. And that's OK, because we should be very happy to just cast off our old heroes and bring new ones in, because this isn't about the individual politicians, it's about the people.

Trump didn't get here because he overtook the RNC from within and schemed his way. No. Trump's rise was grassroots and authentic. It came ENTIRELY from the masses loving Donald and steamrolling an apparatus that fucking HATED Donald. I know this will be dismissed as the whining of a Bernie Bro, but try to understand 2015/16 because it really matters in thinking about how to build power. - Hillary had, since 2012, been literally tying the DNC's finances to her re-election. The debate schedule, the number of Democratic candidates in the debates, and even the questions were a co-production of DNC/Hillary 2k16. Talking points and approved messages for campaigns that wanted DNC funding/support were a co-production of DNC/Hillary 2k16. Everything was run to try and clear the field for the candidate chosen by the apparatus and to validate the messaging of that candidate. - The RNC, gearing up to replace Obama, had their own messaging goals and establishment candidates (not nearly as monolithic and incestuous as the DNC at the time, though). Trump rode the golden escalator and the establishment candidates bristled and objected and the RNC bristled and objected. Then the Grassroots God Emperor fucking stomped their faces in because he said "fuck you" directly to the establishment apparatus and told the people he loved them. 2016 Dem: Apparatus selects chosen candidate ahead of time, humiliating loss 2020 Dem: Apparatus intervenes later to push the selection of an establishment candidate, decent win 2024 Dem: Apparatus doesn't even pretend to give the people a choice, humiliating loss We don't need the apparatus to make decisions about which candidates or even which messages. We need it to be a means of distributing nationally-raised money to candidates who prove themselves in their own cities/counties/states. That's it.

If Trump kills the DNC I might have to hand-deliver him a McDonald's Diet Coke. I don't mean that in an accelerationist or pouty sense, but genuinely excited about the potential to eliminate an apparatus that actively suppresses grassroots organization and distributed decision-making within the larger progressive movement. In the wake of Shitbird's victory, I've listened to about 8 hours of Pod Save America in the background while I do other things and the national Democrats should just shut up and find ways to let these podcasters run their messaging. Not hiring them into campaigns or putting them into the apparatus, but shut the fucking apparatus down and let the messaging get distributed. No central clearinghouse run by the Pelosis of the world and their billionaire friends. We could do that. It would be great.

Nice, Multicultural Populism vs Hateful, Bigoted Populism Yeah, basically.

* I make big list of my enemy's hypocrisies and lies * I show enemy and his supporters * My enemies and their supporters ignore it * They show me a list of my politicians' hypocrisies and lies, which I also ignore * I lose again * I start making another list, which will truly own them with logic this time

I am not capable of seeing Obama (especially the aughts-version of Obama) as a Trump-type figure. You will have to explain it slowly because even the thought of someone making that case activates my reptilian brain and makes me want to load one of my guns lol

No. The future can be much, much, much brighter than that. Ignore Trump, he sucks. He's awful. Not just repellant to our aesthetics and values, but he's actually garbage at building anything meaningful. Look very slightly back in the past to see what we can actually do.

Bernie was, of course, correct. He is also correct today, in the wake of Shitbird's new victory, when he discusses how the Democratic elites do the exact same thing to protect the power and money of those who fund their operation (and no, this isn't "both sides", this is my usual thing of not giving a shit about doing commentary on the GOP and wanting to focus entirely on my OWN house, where I have influence and hope). A conversation the ancient Vermonter wants to start now but is probably not really going to be had because we are going to use "it's too soon, we're hurting!" as yet another shield to protect the elites of a party who haven't allowed a free and fair primary since 2007. We can't control how they let their elites control them. We can control how our elites control us. Let's do that.

No longer looking defining the guy you're going fishing with by his voting history or even his political beliefs. No longer asking people who they voted for or trying to divine their beliefs. Starting to ignore what they say that is clearly just mindless or reflexive, figuring out where their better angels are, and speaking directly to those better angels. To me this isn't even about walking on a high, lonely road, it's about not becoming a completely miserable piece of shit in my own life. I think the Tik Tok gay is right about how fucking annoying liberals are, but I disagree about the election being a referendum on liberal annoyingness. He's 100% right about this outrage being antithetical to necessary introspection. (The "do you want to be morally superior or do you want to win?" question is one I've asked many many times.)

Strasser Did Nothing Wrong

I've been alive too long to buy into this emo shit about the human race. We are vast; we contain multitudes. Very few of the grown-ups who voted for the Shitpile did so because they genuinely wanted to hurt someone. Did a few/ten thousand of the dumbass Gen Z'ers who have no life experience or perspective so they think owning people is a legitimate way of life? Sure. But Grandpa Trump-lover is far more ignorant than he is malevolent and he's often very easy to bring on side (in terms of interpersonal positivity, not voting liberal) with love, affection, and non-judgmental outreach. If winning is the goal, of course.

It's far more rational, given historical perspective and basic reasoning, than assuming the pothole ahead is actually a chasm. It could be one, sure, but that's not the pattern and there's nothing purposeful that comes from embracing irrational fears. But we're too reliant on metaphor here, the reality of what we need to do is build bridges towards the people we need to vote with us to get the things we want enacted. Dismissing the vast swathe of American voters as irredeemable isn't emotionally soothing right now, but it's dumb both in terms of practice and in terms of accurately reading the world. People aren't evil, by and large, but they are dumb and easily swayed. So let's sway them.

They killed Roe. They dreamed that shit into existence through unflappable will. On our side, despite all their fucking horseshit, we are climbing upward constantly towards a brighter and more accepting future. Biden had a trans woman in his cabinet and a black female VP. It's not a smooth, unbroken 45-degree incline, but if you pull back far enough it's damned close to it. It's very easy to just scroll past the myopic, zero-perspective, "LOOK AT ME!" doomsaying/whining and not let it skew rational perspectives. I highly recommend it.

To answer this question seriously, if people stop arguing and paying so much attention to the worst voices (which, in truth, require specific effort on our parts to even find) then they'll realize they're often pulling the rope in the same direction more often than not, especially if the issues/work is local and not explicitly political. You can, locally, feed the homeless, read books to elementary school kids, deliver meals on wheels, etc... with people whose political views you abhor and not even know it unless you make it a point to try and find out. (Or were incapable of ignoring/shooting down their overtures to start political conversations.) Even in the world of volunteering pro bono for illegal immigrants, who would you even talk to that would respond that way and what would it matter? I know millions of Americans who would be mad at you, but at what point would that conversation even really happen? Someone asked either here or in another thread why do Democrats need to be the bigger person or the adult in the room or whatever... it's because there's no other option. Not in some dramatic martyrdom way in which we nobles are holding up the pillars of society, but there's just not another option if we are in charge of our own values. So I can do whatever the fuck I want because it doesn't matter how many people believe my specific efforts are making the world worse. Their opinion has zero power or relevance that I do not purposefully and intentionally give away.

I would point out how Al Gore had an election openly stolen from him by the Bush campaign and SC in 2000, but most people here were either the guys pounding on the doors in Miami-Dade or cheering on those who did (if politically engaged at all so long ago), so I'm not sure that will register as meaningful. Subtle Internet influence campaigns don't really stand out to me as all that big of a deal.

We got a black guy named Hussein elected president twice, both times by convincing margins over well-rehearsed, well-known, extremely-experienced white guys. And Hussein did pretty damn well among blue collar white dudes considering he's a black guy named Hussein married to a black woman with broad shoulders and being born in Kenya and having gay sex in a limousine for money or something. We don't need to lower ourselves profoundly to appeal to the base cretins unworthy of sharing our booth at Chili's; we need someone people like who speaks well about a broader vision of American greatness. Because our ideas are a lot better, a lot kinder, and a lot more full of love for humans, which most people actually like. We ran Hillary, who a lot of people really liked and a lot of people really really really hated for a very long time, and lost. We ran Biden, who a lot of people really liked and no one really hated all that much for very long (it doesn't count when its in the throes of the election itself, we always hate the other guy's candidate even if we didn't know them before), and won. We ran Kamala, who had no base and no voter ID and who no one cared about until it was time to have to care about her (election-time), and lost. So let's get someone that no one really hates, that at least SOME people really like already, and who presents well.

Notice how you hedged towards admitting that there are real problems that young men have but absolutely could not stop yourself from pushing it aside as quickly as you could and ending it with the typical chiding and scolding of those same young men? Be sensitive and vulnerable and open but also stop being a pussy and help others but don't expect others to help you and if you need help you're a pussy and be nice to others who need help and yeah maybe you have a problem but look at all those other people who have it worse.

Let's be fair, the "Let's move!" thing was never going to accomplish jack shit even if every politician and talking head on TV sang its praises. Harmless, of course, but vapid. ("Harmless but vapid" is like a B+ in DC!)

Dude, do NOT give the Trump Cabinet any fucking ideas.

And the posters in here, largely, don't realize they're doing the exact same thing: "These stupid pussies don't slide down banisters on the wet panties of last night's conquests playing the 'Sultans of Swing' solo like I did when I was in high school!" What percentage of young men in school are actually cool? How many of them have the confidence needed to live this way? How many of them genuinely just want to live a simple life of good values (whatever that might mean to them), humility, and responsibility? How many of them want to be useful and independent and see no path towards it? Trumpworld is looking at them saying, "You're a dumb pussy right now, but that can change. Get in, loser, we're saving America and you're an important part of that!" What are we saying to them? What's our offer? "You're a dumb pussy right now, but if you abase yourself enough you'll learn that hating yourself openly and shitting on yourself and those like you has its own rewards if you do it for clout. You get to feel like One of the Good Ones!" I guess it's kind of working? The gap is closing a tiny bit?

We send our kids on 8th grade field trips to go look at giant statutes of and monuments to men who raped their slaves. Open my profile pic to see a pic of Bubba (a rapist/sexual predator himself) standing in front of modern slaves to pump up his tough-on-crime credentials. insert-"always-was"-astronaut-meme

It's an especially difficult thing to envision since we already had Trump as president and democracy did not, in fact, die. Or even mildly suffer. Maybe, when Trump finally dies, the Democrats can be issues-focused? Dare to dream.

Maybe if we do disingenuous and illogical outrage like this even harder Donald Trump #2 won't win 2 out of the next 3 elections.

If you think "White Men +8" and "Black Men -13" are miniscule for Democrats then you're about as tuned in as the current Democratic leadership appears to be. Also, if it's miniscule then why is the central focus of this thread and the larger Democratic zeitgeist the unrelenting horror problem of white men? Literally the group that swung hardest in the right direction over the last 8 years (at least according to the numbers provided)? Why isn't this thread, "What went wrong with Latinos?" The answer to that question is instructive.