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This is an emotionally-loaded non-sequitur. How does one thing connect to girls from being denied access to sports? There is neither a ban on girls (cis or trans) from playing sports, nor is there much care about how they're mixed at that age. I'm not accusing you of doing it, but this guilt trip thing is a common occurrence with this topic. At the elite level, a trans female is free to compete in the group coincident with their birth gender. *Is the argument that it is unfair to them athletically e.g. they cant win? We're told (gender-agnostic) physical differences is already the status quo anyway, so is it any more unfair for a transitioned female to be uncompetitive vs an elite male than it is for any cis male to be uncompetitive against a D1 athlete? *Is the argument that it is unfair to them morally/socially, i.e. they genuine do not identify in any way as male and dont want to be associated with that group? Believe it or not, I sympathize with this one. One, the organization and the other competitors have the right to determine. Two, what then is the criteria with which you determine genuine? Surgery? Hormones? Peer recognition? Because none of those seem as pragmatic as the default rule, and noone has proposed anything better.

I asked you directly, here , what is your proposal for fairness. No response, from you or anyone else (I asked again to Dahobbbs). The complaint about zero engagement fails if you yourself disengaged from the conversation. How you interpret peoples intention is your prerogative but with 10,000 posts ive never typed a single bad word against you (despite butting plenty of heads here). If you assume I'm acting in bad faith then we're just wasting eachothers bandwidth here. Nope. I explicitly referenced dimorphism upthread, and also "earnest" discretionary/social transition--how you choose to live and present is your choice and no business of mine. Where it comes into sports its just a matter of pragmatism for the rule to be based on birth. Its not pragmatic to.. what.. demand a lifelong biological passport? Authenticated medical history? You said your measured profile matches squarely with females. Your last post to me said most men can't handle a Serena Wiliams serve. I don't see how either of those serve to invalidate the rule. If my RHR and VO2max is only equal to females my age, is it appropriate for me to enroll in female competition? If I cant handle a Serena Williams serve -- and i absolutely cannot -- is that license to abolish gendered segregation? As said above, I'm still waiting to see a real workable solution proposed. The very example of ostracizing, scolding behavior as a deflection. Explain to me like it's Monday: what is my disingenuous narrative and my incentive for undermining the existence of people?

that i agree on. its up to each organization to decide whats appropriate for their sport, subject to the pressure of their participants and customers. likewise govt shouldnt be involved in the opposite direction. what i dont agree with -- and people tend to gloss over this part directly to their own moral conclusion -- is if people feign as if gender is irrelevant in sports..

displaced union guys in their new job supervising the automation

Theres an annoying policing that accompanies this topic using appeal to motive ("youre a bigot") and then to emotion ("why do you want to exclude minorities"). Its surprisingly not as much on this thread, but it toxifies the ability to discuss it elsewhere. Transgender people can participate in sports. Theres no ban against it. And in low-stakes, casual competition -- grade school, rec leagues, amateur -- who cares everybody play where they want none of you are lebron james just have fun. In elite competition like collegiate sports, professional leagues where theres real stakes on the table (money, trophies, careers), yeah absolutely use the imperfect but clearest-cut 99.9%-fair method.

Everything can be construed as arbitrary. You can argue an Under-18 sports league is arbitrary because what's the real difference between that and 17.5y/18.5y weeks besides a round number. My argument its a convenient boundary to split human population. Most of the world establishes 18 as the legal age of majority separating adults vs minors. Therefore its less arbitrary. Gender is an ultra convenient boundary to split human population. Its a world recognized distinction within human population, separating them by half! It's very much less arbitrary. Don't tar that as sexism, like age brackets isn't ageism. Neither age or gender grouping in sports is done out of spite. You talk around the periphery of the issue. You're clear you don't like people who push the issue. But you're not clear about your own view of the issue itself: is gender segregation in elite competition a good thing? You kinda admit coyly that yes, its a good thing, but simply it shouldnt be determind by government. Is that the right read?

Some more numbers, dug up by CBS: The current ILA agreement sets the following for annualized base pay by 1/2/3/6 years of service: 40k/50k/64k/78k. Their demand these figures increased to: 88k/98k/108k/138k. They already receive a form of revenue-sharing. It's called Container Royalty, collected from the tonnage they process, goes into the CRCC Fund, paying out ~$10k/employee/yr. https://ilaunion.org/wp-content/uploads/Master-Contract-2018.pdf New York Harbor's 2020 report collected payment information on 3500 workers, excluding their royal distributions. The median pay is $150k. 33% earn $200k+. 25% earn $240k+ 10% earn $300k. And this fun tidbit https://waterfront.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/11/2018-2019_wcnyh_annual_report.pdf

hell, people here 'hate' Mack Brown more than Deion Sanders...and that motherfucker won us 150+ games and a national championship!!

Despite effort to taint the concept of “segregation” with racial-discrimination, we still know its a good thing in sports. We segregate for convenience, and to award winners. We segregate by affiliation, geography, age, etc. We segregate to determine the fastest runner in a company, in a club, in a school, in a district, in a league, in a state, in a country, under-13, over-55, etc. In any decent-sized grouping of the above, theres would not be a female winner. In a global competition, eg Olympics, there will never be a single event with a female winner. Not in running, swimming, jumping, lifting, throwing, skating, skiing, surfing, anything. Gender segregation gives access for (born) biological women to win. And yet theres been transwomen winners at high level competition in different sports. I think it’s reasonable to view that as unfair to the biological women. And it’s a tenable position from logic, not from bigotry or cultural zealotry.

Sports is segregated for fairness to the extent that is reasonable. There is no binary division in the human population more obvious than something split ~50/50*, with observable anatomical differences, with biological functional differences, so natural that it establishes societal/behavioral differences. And empirically along that division for every athletic outcome ever recorded in time there is the same ranked order in performance. That is why males/female sports segregation exist. And within it, we let the competitors self-sort for who has more physical advantages. That’s the first-order segregation that should not be controversial. If your fundamental premise is well different individuals are physically advantaged over others anyway….be clear: are you suggesting to eliminate gender in sports altogether? If so, theres no point to continue to the real point: addressing how to fairly and respectfully treating the 1%*

Its not any less loony as a hypothetical. And if youre not discussing in earnest, is there a point in your involvement (eg to defend a stance) other than to express contempt for how undignified you find this issue.

3 threads down. Less joking answer, can you name a coach with similar magnitude profile and personality that gets less attention? A 2-sport HOF athlete with signature celebration move and reality TV show? Guy like that is supposed to slip under the radar?

His is a loony proposal. In professional cycling there already is a ton of biological testing. The goal was to detect anomalous measures as evidence of cheating, so they set *arbitrary* round numbers as threshold such as 50%+ hematocrit. That threshold was controversial, debated, and I think even abandoned. The problem is of course theres no single defensible limit, and theres different measures with different distributions that also affect performance. If you take a bunch of peoples measurements — like VO2max — and sort them into classes, it is no longer sporting. You’re not setting up a bicycle race. Youre setting up a laboratory bench racing competition to see which 90ml/kg/min bodybag processes 92 for the day. In bike racing there have been multiple transgender females winning female competitions. There have been zero known cases of transgender males winning males competition. The (obvious) implication is that those who are born male, in aggregate, are superior athletes than those born female. (As if we didnt already know from the billion other empirical data points). “Why do you care, it doesnt affect you?”. Based on the above, it definitely affects female competitors. “Why do you want to exclude marginalized people from sports you big meanie”. In professional bike racing, the mens category is officially an open category. Any person identifying as any gender is eligible to participate. “What about people who are truly biologically dimorphic or socially nonbinary/trans in completely earnest manner and genuinely arent trying to cheat”. Compete in the open category. If your condition represents 1% of the population you should not get to supercede 50% of the population. Nothing against you in any other respect.

You’re supposed to say “No Diddy” after that.

There is no fucking way that the music festival attack happened 1.0 years ago. October 2023. Is it just me being old as shit or doesnt that seem like an event from 3/4 months back?

For unlegal streams use sportsurge.net on a browser with adblocking. Its a bitch on mobile. You could also search for game directly on youtube and recently thats been reliable. Next to zero chance of finding a bar broadcasting US sports in a provincial place like that, particularly for college sports (NFL is easier bet), and not if itll be an evening game.

Yin and Yang. Big personalities attract big attention. A cocksure attitude always invites that kind of stuff and happens in every sport. Tale as old as time

Giving it to QBs is boring, unless they are transcendental. (Burrow, Murray, Scam Newton). Award it to Travis Hunter. Dude is a generational stud.

The symbol is for ground/earth, hence bag of sand.

The norwegian figures come from tax, and they have very good record keeping. They even disaggregate base pay from bonus pay. The american (BLS) figure comes from self-reporting. been a while since i read exact survey methodology but the questions are extremely detailed — its possible to lie but theres no good reason. i think its something like how many hours did you work *last week*. how many of those were standard time. how many were OT. what was the total gross pay for *last week*. the numbers could be skewed depending on when they perform the survey, but you figure over the long run it kinda averages out.

More smear tactics, and whatever associative fallacy bringing race race to it. The strong difference in responses to difference questions shows there’s some kind of motivation behind the (anonymous) answers. If hate is your blanket answer for that motivation, why wouldnt they want discrimination in employment and housing as well? (Whats the cost of expressing a wrong opinion to an online poll?) Is there any natural, obvious reason for people to have segregation in bathroom at all (where there is none in general employment)….or is wanting girls to stay with girls a form of discrimination, and wanting girls-identifying-as-boys to use the same room a form of elevated hate-filled discrimination?

in perpetuating adversarial relationships with reporters, thinking they’re out to get him, while manufacturing rivalries against other coaches? absolutely. and i say this as a colorado and deion fan. man was on my childhood SB29 team.

what some people delude themselves into thinking they could do* doesnt change the stark reality of group differences. *just ask Kevin.

Ive counted in the thread 3 to 4 instances (including yours) policing the discourse to the tune of: something rational should be done. people only talk about this now because theyre hateful. except, curiously, that something is never explained.

I was gonna tag/quote you in that question actually. I like you, and have never written a single bad word against you, though we may have disagreed in good faith. So lets start from basics: Should sports be segregated? On what basis? If your current biological measurements all align outside your birth group, does it invalidate that grouping — ie should it be ignored for basis of segregation? What is the alternative?