troph

yeah some of us have little choice when it get's rough, we are first in line for the harm. you can be tougher than just about anyone and still run and hide is at times the best strategy. I'm pretty sure if Trump wins, I'm going dark. I'd rather not, but I think minimizing my online presence, all but eliminating my online speech and holding on for dear life until we can move is the only smart strategy if protect my family is priority number 1.

you don't participate in game threads here very often do you? no it's histrionics the night of the debate. wink wink. find the progression of my thinking - and I'll readily admit my thinking is fluid and it changes so it's the progression that matters - instead you picked initial reactions and hold that against me. that's way more disingenuous LL than my fluidity and progression of thought. that same night I posted about his waffle house comment "it's hard to debate a liar" and said that was a FANTASTIC response. Then the next day I watched and acknowledged his NC speech performance and said on this thread we need more of that, maybe he can come around. I started to come around to the spin approach in less than 24 hours. I then typed out the spin response I would go with, saying something to the effect that Biden should go on the George Steph interview and say, "look, I'm old, I get it and I've slowed some, but I'm still in the game. arguing about golf was childish, but look I was flabergasted and the lies, man the lies. Look you can't respond to 20 lies in 60 seconds. I didn't do a good job, but hey, look, he's a con a convicted felon, rapist, insurrectionist and so let's talk about what matters, are we going to save democracy? if so America has to vote for me." So within 24-48 hours I had shifted. After that, I thought his interviews and oval office speeches were fine and noticed the media were latching on to one or two word mix ups which I think is entirely unfair. But the drum beat wouldn't stop. and here we are. so next time you want to waste billable hours digging through my posts and quoting me, please - as a friend - get it right. ps - I pulled you in there to say I agree dem voters think for themselves too it was agreeing with one of your earlier statements. sorry if it pissed you off. you of all people should know I'm nothing if not genuine.

dude, I'm almost always in the minority and also right more often than not. the best candidate is one that didn't exist. that candidate was the winner of the primaries when Biden pulled an LBJ and declined to run again. Since that didn't happen, it's Biden post-debate or brokered convention and a wildcard candidate 4 months out. SPIN THAT SHIT and move on.

wrong. incumbency is a powerful influence. spin it and move on. that's what the best campaigns do. instead we are talking about the POTUS fucking resigning 3 months out and scrambling to the finish line. now should Biden have resigned mid-term or declined to run, yes, yes, yes, yes. but at the time in question, he hadn't so you do the best you can. spin was the best right move and it didn't happen and here we are.

I'm no longer interested in playing this game with you.

If Biden at the time is the best bet to win you spin it like a mother fucker. that was entirely possible 24 hours later. as reports are now saying, elites wouldn't have it. now the best bet is Biden has a covid related health decline, he resigns, she moves up (assuming the VP for control of the Senate is a dem for jan 6 shenanigans), Shapiro joins the ticket and somehow they fight off the elites and we have at least as progressive of an admin.

you can call me dramatic when your post articulates you understand what I fucking say, until then shove it right back up your fucking ass. You called my post histrionic because I admitted the debate performance was devastating. It wasn't, I didn't say that. That night Biden started to repair at 1am in a waffle house saying "it's hard to debate a liar" and that was a GREAT response, and he had a great speech the very next day. The plan to spin this was in process, but as we have learned, money, media, the Party and yes @Ghost of LL Dem voters wouldn't allow it. It's becoming quite clear, most of us are wrong here. It's monied elites that are actually pulling the strings here and simply using the debate as the crevice to take advantage of. BUYING senators and representatives to come out and say Biden needs to step down. That's the problem and it only makes the rage worse.

rage inducing shit.

reading is FUNdamental. I said the response to his debate performance was devastating, not his debate performance. I think debates are borderline meaningless. I think the explanation to his debate performance is easy, I wrote what the next day response should have been on this thread. so stop with the misogynistic insults re histrionics on a board full of ledge jumping sky is falling dudes and try understanding what I wrote instead.

I refuse to get into these discussions much until it's done, done but Shapiro has to be it.

The quintessential set of circumstances your dad would respond to with "you made your bed now you gotta sleep in it." HOLY FUCK what a mess we've made of what could have instead simply been called a bad debate performance.

I told you it's maddening, not that it's untrue. yes I was venting.

BINGO. Dems will never learn. purity politics, eat your own, play by rules of decorum the other side won't to your disadvantage, the list goes on and on. and in an election where all the "lib" and former "pub" dudes here agree democracy itself is on the ballot, I'm full of histrionics. I love this board.

fify

I'm not arguing the conclusion, I'm arguing the reason. There is no choice but to boot Biden to the curb. the conclusion is BECAUSE of the response, not the circumstance. all you have to do is compare and contrast the worst circumstances of each candidate and the respective Parties' response to see WHY Biden is toast. and now it's 100% done because Elon Musk/Peter Theil money on one side and the well drying up on the Dem side.

Citzens United to the rescue. Fuck my life.

win at (almost) all costs is the goal in politics. that to me meant rally around Biden. the Republicans get it, they will do anything with their win at all costs mentality. it means we are already playing against a stacked deck.

What the fuck do you think this board is for? Yeah I'll bitch as loud and as often as I want. and actually people here don't agree with me, most are arguing the exact opposite with me. They want him to step down. I think the reaction to Biden's debate (including most here) was a devastating response that puts the election in jeopardy.

I agree the DOJ should crack down on white nationalist extremists, that's been a growing issue since even before GWB. Not sure how much of that can be blamed on Biden. Inflation is the only thing that really matters right now (with high employment) to everyone but the wealthiest. That shit takes time, go back to the 1970's and 1980's and see how long that shit stuck. Record speed in inflation reduction here. Not his fault, not his credit but if we are assigning blame and credit to presidents for inflation, he gets an A+ gold star. How that's even debatable is maddening. Could he be more progressive, yes I agree. He did not catastrophically miss though, that's a laughable position. He rebuilt a cratered Executive Branch, expanded NATO in the face of the Russian threat, had more bipartisan legislation pass than anyone in decades - despite (variation on a theme) his own party getting in the way. Still passed an historic climate bill that needs to be passed every other year but hey the first happened on his watch. But it doesn't matter, this he's toast and it's fucking stupid.

He's toast man. I'm fucking livid about it. The last thing we need for this election is a brokered convention and a scramble to the end with a new candidate. but now we have no choice. At this point he is unelectable and the fact that Trump is electable and Biden isn't has nothing to do with the underlying circumstance and has EVERYTHING to do with the disparate reactions to the circumstances.

that's half the equation. the second half is how the Party and the media reacted. Trump led an insurrection for Christ's sake and he's still in the running. The circumstance + the reaction = the result. You are correct about the circumstance but you are ignoring the reaction. The Party turbo fucked Biden in their reaction to the circumstance and the media seeking ratings and readers for profit jumped on it. as for close elections, we won't have wide margins of victories for at least another 4-5 cycles. Biden actually did quite well against an incumbent and the second highest margin of victory since 2000.

you aren't wrong in your premise that I live in a world that just isn't the way I think it should be. but I think your reasons for why it is the way it is aren't entirely correct. My critique - well hatred really - goes to the inability for facts to rise to the top and win the day. I have a strong sense of right and wrong, I want justice and I want the truth to prevail. TRUTH on the economy, I get it, the economy isn't great, it's bifurcated, good for some, bad for others. My family is heavily impacted by interest rates given my wife is a home builder, so we have a front row seat on housing issues. Homelessness from a camping in public spaces perspective was a 9th circuit court ruling until a few weeks ago, had nothing to do with Biden. Inflation was and is a bitch and once contained it will still take 2-3 years to feel okay. If Biden gets any credit, it's for helping it come down, he did not create the problem. And, we are looking like a soft landing and expansion is coming, so we are just going to hand that to Trump? The reality is the media isn't doing a @StassneyHorn touting the all time stock market highs under Biden, no they won't even touch it? Why? Positive record doesn't get ratings, we are addicted to DOOM. So, there is little chance Biden can get the traction on his record compared to Trump blasting everyone. The fact that we cannot as a citizenry evaluate Biden's record and compare to Trump's record as the paramount question in this election is just maddening to me. the only critique I have of Biden is the same for the Democrats, they won't take the gloves off and attack Trump like they should. If positive record won't win the day then blast your opponent to smithereens. Biden started but his allies drowned him out with demands he resign from the campaign. The other problem is we can't evaluate the alternative universe where the Dems rallied around Biden, blamed a cold and Trump's unrelenting lies for stymieing the president in the debate. I actually drafted the statement way back when it happened, it wouldn't have been hard and we would be off to the races. so what if it was a lie, lies work, just ask Trump.

when was the last time Biden lost an election?

he's not the only one with terrible polling, he's just the only one with allies eating him alive. FUCK man, even Nikki Haley slobbered all over Trump. Dems SUCK at campaigns, absolutely suck. There *was* a path to help Biden and get the polls up and secure victory, but the Dems pissed that away attacking their own. Now we have a brokered convention and total wildcard election coming for the most important election of our lifetimes. Good job Dems. FUCK.

no they didn't "do this" because on the other side you have all of that (old senile man) PLUS convicted felon, rapist, child rapist, insurrectionist, etc. etc. and not a peep about him being unfit for office. If you rank ordered the two candidates in who should objectively step down from the campaign it's Trump first and Biden second and NO ONE is clamoring for Trump to step down. and the back drop is Biden has objectively had the best 4 year run of any president in our lifetimes with a scandal free Administration that has knocked it out of the park. WHAT. THE. FUCK?