The Guitar Pron Thread

[Not that Bob 743]

Dumb question amnesty, please. I watch guitar repair videos on youtube while I'm on the treadmill and they keep talking about plywood guitars. I knew this was a thing, but never really thought about it. If they are going to cut a thin sheet of "good" wood to ply on to a sheet or two of "bad" wood, how much of the good wood goes to waste as sawdust when they rip it? I've never studied the process of making plywood, but I'm thinking you gain very little in cost savings when you rip a piece of mahogany or whatever into a dozen sheets of ply. Seems like you'd have as much sawdust as you would if you just used a whole piece. As I type this I think the question is answering itself, but I'll go ahead and submit. 

 

 

[Chad Fuck 18096]

7 minutes ago, Not that Bob said:

Dumb question amnesty, please. I watch guitar repair videos on youtube while I'm on the treadmill and they keep talking about plywood guitars. I knew this was a thing, but never really thought about it. If they are going to cut a thin sheet of "good" wood to ply on to a sheet or two of "bad" wood, how much of the good wood goes to waste as sawdust when they rip it? I've never studied the process of making plywood, but I'm thinking you gain very little in cost savings when you rip a piece of mahogany or whatever into a dozen sheets of ply. Seems like you'd have as much sawdust as you would if you just used a whole piece. As I type this I think the question is answering itself, but I'll go ahead and submit. 

 

 

[Scooter Monzingo 821]

3 hours ago, Not that Bob said:

Dumb question amnesty, please. I watch guitar repair videos on youtube while I'm on the treadmill and they keep talking about plywood guitars. I knew this was a thing, but never really thought about it. If they are going to cut a thin sheet of "good" wood to ply on to a sheet or two of "bad" wood, how much of the good wood goes to waste as sawdust when they rip it? I've never studied the process of making plywood, but I'm thinking you gain very little in cost savings when you rip a piece of mahogany or whatever into a dozen sheets of ply. Seems like you'd have as much sawdust as you would if you just used a whole piece. As I type this I think the question is answering itself, but I'll go ahead and submit. 

 

 

I have been building electric guitars for over 40 years. Why would you want to put a piece of highly figure tone wood on top of flat plywood? 

[Not that Bob 743]

15 minutes ago, Scooter Monzingo said:

I have been building electric guitars for over 40 years. Why would you want to put a piece of highly figure tone wood on top of flat plywood? 

I'm talking about acoustic guitars. Look at repairs on youtube, neck resets and intonation fixes, and they often determine if the top is solid or plywood. I guess my thinking is that the amount of sawdust created in cutting a thin ply would almost amount to another piece of wood...the sawdust. I will look at plywood production during my exercise time tomorrow. That might answer my question. 

[Not that Bob 743]

Okay, never mind. It's not sawn. It's "shaved" by a highly sharp lathe so no sawdust or waste is created. Back to the guitar pron. 

[Paul Wesley 3313]

Any others who went to the Hendrix tribute at Moody last night (yes, I know I'm on the guitar thread and not the live music thread)?  Thoughts?

[Scooter Monzingo 821]

1 hour ago, Not that Bob said:

I'm talking about acoustic guitars. Look at repairs on youtube, neck resets and intonation fixes, and they often determine if the top is solid or plywood. I guess my thinking is that the amount of sawdust created in cutting a thin ply would almost amount to another piece of wood...the sawdust. I will look at plywood production during my exercise time tomorrow. That might answer my question. 

I apologize, but post a picture of what you are looking at. I’m interested in seeing exactly what you are trying to resolve.

But, fair to say I was unaware of any manufacturer who used plywood in the construction of their top. 

[Not that Bob 743]

No worries. It's not run of the mill construction grade plywood. It is nicer wood that is a veneer on top of cheaper wood. Cheaper old guitars like Kay and Silvertone...maybe some lower end Epiphones. I call it plywood, but I guess more correctly it is veneer. I watch a bunch of repair work by the guy at Rosa String Works and he calls it "plywood". I think maybe the more correct term would be laminate. Either way, these guitars have more than one type of wood on the top, and sometimes the back and sides. The old Danelectro guitars were made of Masonite and, I think, were semi-hollow body. 

[Deej 77677]

19 minutes ago, Not that Bob said:

No worries. It's not run of the mill construction grade plywood. It is nicer wood that is a veneer on top of cheaper wood. Cheaper old guitars like Kay and Silvertone...maybe some lower end Epiphones. I call it plywood, but I guess more correctly it is veneer. I watch a bunch of repair work by the guy at Rosa String Works and he calls it "plywood". I think maybe the more correct term would be laminate. Either way, these guitars have more than one type of wood on the top, and sometimes the back and sides. The old Danelectro guitars were made of Masonite and, I think, were semi-hollow body. 

I recall Jimmy Page saying he had numerous Danos because he would sweat through them. 

[tbone_ 14413]

Any others who went to the Hendrix tribute at Moody last night (yes, I know I'm on the guitar thread and not the live music thread)?  Thoughts?

I did not. But I did watch Kenny Wayne Shepard and Eric Johnson play a whole night of Hendrix tunes once at Antones.

[Deej 77677]

Eric Johnson covers Hendrix better than just about anyone.

[tbone_ 14413]

Eric Johnson covers Hendrix better than just about anyone not named Stevie

....

[Deej 77677]

Agree to disagree. 

[jimmyjazz 46990]

I didn't go, but I did catch Mike Flanigan's post of Eric Johnson playing Hendrix.

Eric is a phenomenal musician, and based on my one interaction with him, he's a terrific guy, but he does not do Hendrix.  He does Eric, which is outrageous and mind-blowing and all that, but Eric doesn't do Hendrix.  

That said, he sounds damn good playing a Hendrix tune.  It just sounds kinda . . . Eric-y.

[BoomMF 1401]

Agree to disagree. 

Deej, you know I love you, but between this and the Stevie-isn't-even-the-best-guitarist-named-Vaughan take, I think we need to have a talk and get to the bottom of what's going on over there.

[BoomMF 1401]

But, before that, check out the huge ass Frankenstrat outside the Hard Rock Cafe in Universal City. It was impressive enough from the front, but when I saw the rear, I could tell it was made with love. #groundingwirebruh

 

 

[hullabelew 3730]

Wow.  That is terrific detail.  

[Scooter Monzingo 821]

7 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I didn't go, but I did catch Mike Flanigan's post of Eric Johnson playing Hendrix.

Eric is a phenomenal musician, and based on my one interaction with him, he's a terrific guy, but he does not do Hendrix.  He does Eric, which is outrageous and mind-blowing and all that, but Eric doesn't do Hendrix.  

That said, he sounds damn good playing a Hendrix tune.  It just sounds kinda . . . Eric-y.

I agree, though most people don’t have your ear and probably didn’t catch what you did. But if you play the instrument you can almost always hear some tonality variation when someone covers a lick that isn’t organically theirs. It may be subtle, but you can hear it. One’s tone is like a fingerprint that is unique to each of us. No one can do you, like you.

[Deej 77677]

But that's what makes good covers great. If you want to hear a note for note rendition, with the exact tonal nuances, put the record on. 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 hours ago, Deej said:

But that's what makes good covers great. If you want to hear a note for note rendition, with the exact tonal nuances, put the record on. 

That's why I've personally always felt like Stevie owned "Little Wing" but found his version of "Voodoo Chile" to be perfunctory for lack of a better word. Voodoo Chile always sounded a little more like he was trying to be true to the original. Little Wing sounded like he thought Hendrix had composed a nice little tune but didn't really understand what he had, so Stevie took it and finished it. 

Stevie's Voodoo Chile is a (great) cover, Stevie's Little Wing is a superior reinvention. 

[Goredho 17630]

3 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

That's why I've personally always felt like Stevie owned "Little Wing" but found his version of "Voodoo Chile" to be perfunctory for lack of a better word. Voodoo Chile always sounded a little more like he was trying to be true to the original. Little Wing sounded like he thought Hendrix had composed a nice little tune but didn't really understand what he had, so Stevie took it and finished it. 

Stevie's Voodoo Chile is a (great) cover, Stevie's Little Wing is a superior reinvention. 

Totally agree with this.  See Nothing Compares 2 U.

[Not that Bob 743]

46 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

That's why I've personally always felt like Stevie owned "Little Wing" but found his version of "Voodoo Chile" to be perfunctory for lack of a better word. Voodoo Chile always sounded a little more like he was trying to be true to the original. Little Wing sounded like he thought Hendrix had composed a nice little tune but didn't really understand what he had, so Stevie took it and finished it. 

Stevie's Voodoo Chile is a (great) cover, Stevie's Little Wing is a superior reinvention. 

I'm not trying to be a dick here...actually I don't have to try, it just comes naturally. Anyhow, I don't think you can make a comparison here, that is original vs. cover. Don't get me wrong, I love them both, but Stevie had years, if not decades to refine and rethink the covers. Jimi had only 2-3 years and was mostly involved in touring and writing new stuff. You can hear some evolution in Jimi's versions when you listen to various versions in various releases...especially live bootlegs. Stevie had more time...although regrettably way too little.  

[tbone_ 14413]

That’s a good point

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

32 minutes ago, Not that Bob said:

I'm not trying to be a dick here...actually I don't have to try, it just comes naturally. Anyhow, I don't think you can make a comparison here, that is original vs. cover. Don't get me wrong, I love them both, but Stevie had years, if not decades to refine and rethink the covers. Jimi had only 2-3 years and was mostly involved in touring and writing new stuff. You can hear some evolution in Jimi's versions when you listen to various versions in various releases...especially live bootlegs. Stevie had more time...although regrettably way too little.  

I give Hendrix all the credit in the world for composing "Little Wing", but it was meant to be an instrumental. Maybe Hendrix would have gotten there himself if he'd lived, but that's why I think Stevie's version is far superior. 

[tbone_ 14413]

Sometimes reinterpretations of songs really open them up. I’m as big a Kristofferson fan as there is, but Bobby McGee is a prime example.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

9 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

Sometimes reinterpretations of songs really open them up. I’m as big a Kristofferson fan as there is, but Bobby McGee is a prime example.

yeah-- Watchtower by Hendrix is another example

[tbone_ 14413]

https://www.musicradar.com/news/can-a-whiskey-barrel-guitar-improve-your-tone

They need a jack daniels one.

[AnotherUTFan 9959]

yeah-- Watchtower by Hendrix is another example

Or Thin Lizzy's cover of Rosalea

[jimmyjazz 46990]

Or this amazing cover of "The Times They Are A-Changing".

Oh wait, it sucks something fierce and the young lady who sang it should have her vocal cords notched as punishment.  The entire message is neutered by the sing-song, breathless delivery.  I get ragey every time I hear it.

 

[hullabelew 3730]

Posting here because it gets more traffic.  

Thoughts on this setup?   $1,000.  On Sweetwater, the speakers are $500 each, the mixer another $200. 

Anyone ever dealt with ProAudioStar? 

http://www.proaudiostar.com/2x-yamaha-dbr12-mackie-802vlz4-cables.html

 

 

 

[tbone_ 14413]

I’m guessing that all sounds great but I would want a mixer with 4 xlr ins - 2 guitars, 2 mics. Also can’t tell from the pics if this one has them but I like the reverb and compression on my Yamaha mixer. Pretty sure it was in the $200 range.

 

 

[DougO 5261]

 

Gibson loses Firebird body shape trademark in EU court battle

By Michael Astley-Brown 8 hours agoNews 

50-year wait to apply for trademark cited as contributing factor

(Image credit: Future)

Gibson has suffered another defeat in its quest to secure trademarks for its body shapes in the European Union: after losing the trademark for the Flying V shape back in June, the company has now had its mark for the Firebird shape cancelled, too.

According to Guitar.com, the Cancellation Division of the EU Intellectual Property Office came to a similar conclusion regarding the Firebird as the Flying V, claiming it “does not consider this to be significantly different from the normal style of electric guitars”.

The fact that Gibson waited 50 years since launching the first Firebird models, first filing for trademarks in 2011, also contributed to the decision.

Guitar body shapes may perhaps function as trademarks for a tiny club of expert and discerning guitarists, but not for the average amateur, who is the relevant public in assessing distinctive character in this case

EU Intellectual Property Office

 

As with the Flying V case, Warwick and Framus owner Hans-Peter Wilfer brought the application against Gibson.

One of the more notable observations from the case was that even if guitarists can clearly identify a guitar outline, the more pertinent factor is whether it means anything to a non-player - which apparently it doesn’t, at least when it comes to the Firebird.

“Guitar body shapes may perhaps function as trademarks for a tiny club of expert and discerning guitarists, but not for the average amateur, who is the relevant public in assessing distinctive character in this case,” the EUIPO stated.

This decision only relates to the body shape as it appears on guitars; Gibson still possesses the trademark in all other areas, most notably merchandise.

And, of course, Gibson’s trademarks remain in the USA, with the Flying V forming a key part of its ongoing lawsuit against Dean Guitars in the USA.

[noharleyyet 2863]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[hullabelew 3730]

Another PA question.  Anyone ever used Mackie PA speakers?  I found a pair of SRM 450s for $500.  A new single one cost that much and I just need something for a practice space.  Figure add a Yamaha mixer for $200, I've got a pretty good set up.   The Mackie's are ugly AF but again...practice space.  

Already decided on this for the mixer:  https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MG10XU--yamaha-mg10xu-10-channel-mixer-with-usb-and-fx

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by hullabelew

[jimmyjazz 46990]

This isn't going to be very helpful, but I've experienced a wide range of quality in budget monitors.  My EV (Electrovoice) monitor can more than overcome a pretty loud band, but the other one (can't remember brand, but budget-y) is just not up to the task.  I think you truly get what you pay for.

Mackie should be OK.  Probably in the same league as Yamaha.  Above my budget monitor or brands like Behringer, etc.  EV is a step up, both in quality and price.

Edited October 25, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[tbone_ 14413]

Don’t know about the Mackie speakers but I’ve had good luck with that sort of stuff on Craigslist if they don’t work for me.

 

That’s the same Yamaha mixer I use. Works great.

 

If you really want good sound check out QSC. I heard a solo acoustic guy playing through a single 8” QSC the other night and it sounded fantastic.

 

[DougO 5261]

Musiciansfriend has a Gibson Firebird for $699 as the stupid deal on the main page, but when you click it on it it's a Martin 000-15M for $1199.

[hullabelew 3730]

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

Don’t know about the Mackie speakers but I’ve had good luck with that sort of stuff on Craigslist if they don’t work for me.

 

That’s the same Yamaha mixer I use. Works great.

 

If you really want good sound check out QSC. I heard a solo acoustic guy playing through a single 8” QSC the other night and it sounded fantastic.

 

I've thought about just buying one QSC instead of two lesser brands and seeing how that worked.  

[BoomMF 1401]

Jimi's Black Widow is now on display at the Guitar Center on Sunset - The most famous guitar that no one knows how famous it really should be, if at all.

[Bogeywon 2546]

1 hour ago, BoomMF said:

Jimi's Black Widow is now on display at the Guitar Center on Sunset - The most famous guitar that no one knows how famous it really should be, if at all.

Gonna google this now. Good stuff 

[tbone_ 14413]

I've thought about just buying one QSC instead of two lesser brands and seeing how that worked.  

I’d give that some consideration.

What are you going to be using this setup for?

[tbone_ 14413]

Musiciansfriend has a Gibson Firebird for $699 as the stupid deal on the main page, but when you click it on it it's a Martin 000-15M for $1199.

I checked and it was an array personal PA system for $299.

[DougO 5261]

2 hours ago, tbone_ said:

I checked and it was an array personal PA system for $299.

 

Yes, I saw that, too. Strange.

[Celery Man 21077]

I want this

 

[tbone_ 14413]

Are you starting a Dokken tribute band?

[Deej 77677]

18 hours ago, DougO said:

 

Yes, I saw that, too. Strange.

When they sell out before the day is over, they just put something else up.

[Celery Man 21077]

Are you starting a Dokken tribute band?

I’m not not doing that

[Buzzrock 15118]

https://www.musicradar.com/news/can-a-whiskey-barrel-guitar-improve-your-tone

They need a jack daniels one.

[tbone_ 14413]

Yes but I mean one that I can buy.

[DougO 5261]

6 hours ago, Deej said:

When they sell out before the day is over, they just put something else up.

Yeah, I've seen that before, but I've never seen three different stupid deal items in one day other than stupid deals of the hour.