The Guitar Pron Thread

[Chad Fuck 17433]

Fender's acoustic are the most popular starter/student guitars on the market currently and you get Fishman elecs in the ~$300+ models.

I was just going to say this. I have a Fender as my beater/beach guitar but I wind up playing it out on occasion because it has the electronics that work and I damn sure ain’t bringing my Martin or Gibson to that dive bar gig.

[tbone_ 14016]

I am all about any info you have, tbone.
PM replied, topo.

Ok JJ - here you go. Apologies in advance if this gets long.

In my opinion most acoustic players I’ve heard in small bars and whatnot, their guitars and vocals sound like shit to me. I’m not talking about the playing and the singing, but just the sound quality (including the couple dozen open mics I’ve done). That said, there’s a lot of them out there so maybe it’s not that big of a deal. But that’s not something I felt like I could be ok with when we started. I was committed to making it sound good at a minimum.

I think I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that typical under saddle acoustic guitar pickups are the primary culprit. They just all sound quacky and honky to me. I’ve switched to a combo pickup that has an under saddle as well as an actual mic in the guitar cavity that can be blended. Makes a huge difference. I currently use the LR Baggs Anthem, but there are a couple of Fishmans I’m interested in as well.

EQ is also essential, which you probably know better than I do. After lots of research on how to eq acoustics turns out there are some specific frequencies that sound good unplugged that don’t translate well amplified. Definitely use the high pass filter to cut the boomy lows. My mixer HPF cuts at 80hz. There is also some mid bass between 300-400hz that just gets muddy. And honky mids between 800-2500hz. I use an LR Baggs preamp (Venue DI) that has two notch filters in the eq that are very good at finding the culprits in these frequencies and cutting them. The Venue DI also has a built in boost which I always keep engaged.

Between the guitar and the preamp the signal goes through a boss 7 band eq. Almost everything is cut here, especially the mids.

Then I have just general low/mid/high on the mixer. I run these generally flat, with mids cut a little. Mostly i use these for minor venue adjustments as needed. I know that’s a lot of eq but that’s what it takes, to my ear, to make it sound good.

I also think at least a little bit of vocal processing is key. We use a TC Helicon Mic Mechanic on one mic and a TC Helicon Doubler on the other. Interestingly we don’t use any of the doubling or pitch correction on those pedals. Just the reverb, which is outstanding, and a little button that is either on/off with some compression, de-essing, and I’m not sure what else but that button is pure magic.

We use QSC speakers, which are incredible IMO. We started with some off brands that were fine, but I bought a QSC one day to A/B since I could return it if we didn’t think it was worth the money. At first we didn’t like it because it’s so unforgiving. But once we figured that out it was a no brained how much better they are. We use one K12.2 and one K8.2 for the mains (the 8 has a much wider throw, and the 12 is better on the low end) and another K8.2 for a monitor. The 8s are relatively new. For the longest time we just used the one 12, which worked, but the three speaker set up is better. The pic below shows the whole rig, from a couple of weeks ago.

A few months ago I actually bought a brand new Bose L1 Pro 32 for $2,600 to bring home to test. We A/Bd it in our practice area for about an hour or two and it wasn’t even close. The vocals had zero life, guitar was muddy, and had no sparkle. I couldn’t dial anything in close to what we were getting with our system so I took it back to guitar center.

That said, I see lots of people using these and they do generally sound ok, but never great, to my ear. And with the ease of setup it may be more what your daughter is looking for. I have our system choreographed down to about a 25 min to set up or tear down but it’s probably more than she would want to deal with. But the Bose is much simpler in that area. However, people tell us every time we play how good it sounds. So for me it’s worth it to lug all that shit around. Plus my diva singer likes it, and when you can sing like she does, you should get what you want.

If your daughter is just looking for a decent guitar to start performing with, I think any of the options above would be good. But if you really want to dig into the sound quality, I’d take whatever PA rig she uses into a shop and try out guitars through that specific rig. That’s what I did and how I landed on the Larivee with the Anthem I use. I cared not what it sounded like unplugged, was only concerned with something that generated sounds I liked coming through our speakers. Turns out it’s a fantastic guitar, but I never would have picked it without that process.

Hope this helps.


Here’s the current setup

[tbone_ 14016]

Oh and congrats for your daughter. That’s awesome. Love to hear some clips sometime.

[Buzzrock 14790]

Nice write up tbone. What are those hammerhead looking things in front of you both?

[tbone_ 14016]

Led lights. Clip onto the iPad mic stand

[Napoleon 8586]

2 hours ago, tbone_ said:

Ok JJ - here you go. Apologies in advance if this gets long.

In my opinion most acoustic players I’ve heard in small bars and whatnot, their guitars and vocals sound like shit to me. I’m not talking about the playing and the singing, but just the sound quality (including the couple dozen open mics I’ve done). That said, there’s a lot of them out there so maybe it’s not that big of a deal. But that’s not something I felt like I could be ok with when we started. I was committed to making it sound good at a minimum.

I think I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that typical under saddle acoustic guitar pickups are the primary culprit. They just all sound quacky and honky to me. I’ve switched to a combo pickup that has an under saddle as well as an actual mic in the guitar cavity that can be blended. Makes a huge difference. I currently use the LR Baggs Anthem, but there are a couple of Fishmans I’m interested in as well.

EQ is also essential, which you probably know better than I do. After lots of research on how to eq acoustics turns out there are some specific frequencies that sound good unplugged that don’t translate well amplified. Definitely use the high pass filter to cut the boomy lows. My mixer HPF cuts at 80hz. There is also some mid bass between 300-400hz that just gets muddy. And honky mids between 800-2500hz. I use an LR Baggs preamp (Venue DI) that has two notch filters in the eq that are very good at finding the culprits in these frequencies and cutting them. The Venue DI also has a built in boost which I always keep engaged.

Between the guitar and the preamp the signal goes through a boss 7 band eq. Almost everything is cut here, especially the mids.

Then I have just general low/mid/high on the mixer. I run these generally flat, with mids cut a little. Mostly i use these for minor venue adjustments as needed. I know that’s a lot of eq but that’s what it takes, to my ear, to make it sound good.

I also think at least a little bit of vocal processing is key. We use a TC Helicon Mic Mechanic on one mic and a TC Helicon Doubler on the other. Interestingly we don’t use any of the doubling or pitch correction on those pedals. Just the reverb, which is outstanding, and a little button that is either on/off with some compression, de-essing, and I’m not sure what else but that button is pure magic.

We use QSC speakers, which are incredible IMO. We started with some off brands that were fine, but I bought a QSC one day to A/B since I could return it if we didn’t think it was worth the money. At first we didn’t like it because it’s so unforgiving. But once we figured that out it was a no brained how much better they are. We use one K12.2 and one K8.2 for the mains (the 8 has a much wider throw, and the 12 is better on the low end) and another K8.2 for a monitor. The 8s are relatively new. For the longest time we just used the one 12, which worked, but the three speaker set up is better. The pic below shows the whole rig, from a couple of weeks ago.

A few months ago I actually bought a brand new Bose L1 Pro 32 for $2,600 to bring home to test. We A/Bd it in our practice area for about an hour or two and it wasn’t even close. The vocals had zero life, guitar was muddy, and had no sparkle. I couldn’t dial anything in close to what we were getting with our system so I took it back to guitar center.

That said, I see lots of people using these and they do generally sound ok, but never great, to my ear. And with the ease of setup it may be more what your daughter is looking for. I have our system choreographed down to about a 25 min to set up or tear down but it’s probably more than she would want to deal with. But the Bose is much simpler in that area. However, people tell us every time we play how good it sounds. So for me it’s worth it to lug all that shit around. Plus my diva singer likes it, and when you can sing like she does, you should get what you want.

If your daughter is just looking for a decent guitar to start performing with, I think any of the options above would be good. But if you really want to dig into the sound quality, I’d take whatever PA rig she uses into a shop and try out guitars through that specific rig. That’s what I did and how I landed on the Larivee with the Anthem I use. I cared not what it sounded like unplugged, was only concerned with something that generated sounds I liked coming through our speakers. Turns out it’s a fantastic guitar, but I never would have picked it without that process.

Hope this helps.


Here’s the current setup

That’s one hell of a backyard.

Smart not to put down grass that has to be mowed… plus, that water bill would drown many small nations in debt.

[jimmyjazz 45327]

2 hours ago, tbone_ said:

Oh and congrats for your daughter. That’s awesome. Love to hear some clips sometime.

Can't message you.

[Foggy Notion 1202]

Here’s another vote for the Taylor Academy line. My GF’s nephew came to town earlier this year and asked me to help him buy a new acoustic electric. We tried a bunch and he ended up going with the Taylor Academy 12E. It’s got a grand concert shaped body so it’s smaller than a dreadnaught and really manageable in terms of its size. Like most Taylors, it was set up well and was easy to play out of the box. At $699, it’s a lot of bang for your buck. 

[Bogeywon 2518]

6 hours ago, noharleyyet said:

FedEx redemption moments ago

914CE...Spruce/Rosewood

 

[Deej 76310]

3 hours ago, tbone_ said:

Here’s the current setup

Tip jar haz sads.

[tbone_ 14016]

That’s one hell of a backyard.
Smart not to put down grass that has to be mowed… plus, that water bill would drown many small nations in debt.

The golf course does need water sometimes.

[tbone_ 14016]

Tip jar haz sads.

Pre-show sads is ok. Post show sads, not as great.

[Deej 76310]

You do know to have some cute girl walk around to the tables with the jar while y'all are playing?

[Scooter Monzingo 820]

5 hours ago, tbone_ said:

Ok JJ - here you go. Apologies in advance if this gets long.

In my opinion most acoustic players I’ve heard in small bars and whatnot, their guitars and vocals sound like shit to me. I’m not talking about the playing and the singing, but just the sound quality (including the couple dozen open mics I’ve done). That said, there’s a lot of them out there so maybe it’s not that big of a deal. But that’s not something I felt like I could be ok with when we started. I was committed to making it sound good at a minimum.

I think I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that typical under saddle acoustic guitar pickups are the primary culprit. They just all sound quacky and honky to me. I’ve switched to a combo pickup that has an under saddle as well as an actual mic in the guitar cavity that can be blended. Makes a huge difference. I currently use the LR Baggs Anthem, but there are a couple of Fishmans I’m interested in as well.

EQ is also essential, which you probably know better than I do. After lots of research on how to eq acoustics turns out there are some specific frequencies that sound good unplugged that don’t translate well amplified. Definitely use the high pass filter to cut the boomy lows. My mixer HPF cuts at 80hz. There is also some mid bass between 300-400hz that just gets muddy. And honky mids between 800-2500hz. I use an LR Baggs preamp (Venue DI) that has two notch filters in the eq that are very good at finding the culprits in these frequencies and cutting them. The Venue DI also has a built in boost which I always keep engaged.

Between the guitar and the preamp the signal goes through a boss 7 band eq. Almost everything is cut here, especially the mids.

Then I have just general low/mid/high on the mixer. I run these generally flat, with mids cut a little. Mostly i use these for minor venue adjustments as needed. I know that’s a lot of eq but that’s what it takes, to my ear, to make it sound good.

I also think at least a little bit of vocal processing is key. We use a TC Helicon Mic Mechanic on one mic and a TC Helicon Doubler on the other. Interestingly we don’t use any of the doubling or pitch correction on those pedals. Just the reverb, which is outstanding, and a little button that is either on/off with some compression, de-essing, and I’m not sure what else but that button is pure magic.

We use QSC speakers, which are incredible IMO. We started with some off brands that were fine, but I bought a QSC one day to A/B since I could return it if we didn’t think it was worth the money. At first we didn’t like it because it’s so unforgiving. But once we figured that out it was a no brained how much better they are. We use one K12.2 and one K8.2 for the mains (the 8 has a much wider throw, and the 12 is better on the low end) and another K8.2 for a monitor. The 8s are relatively new. For the longest time we just used the one 12, which worked, but the three speaker set up is better. The pic below shows the whole rig, from a couple of weeks ago.

A few months ago I actually bought a brand new Bose L1 Pro 32 for $2,600 to bring home to test. We A/Bd it in our practice area for about an hour or two and it wasn’t even close. The vocals had zero life, guitar was muddy, and had no sparkle. I couldn’t dial anything in close to what we were getting with our system so I took it back to guitar center.

That said, I see lots of people using these and they do generally sound ok, but never great, to my ear. And with the ease of setup it may be more what your daughter is looking for. I have our system choreographed down to about a 25 min to set up or tear down but it’s probably more than she would want to deal with. But the Bose is much simpler in that area. However, people tell us every time we play how good it sounds. So for me it’s worth it to lug all that shit around. Plus my diva singer likes it, and when you can sing like she does, you should get what you want.

If your daughter is just looking for a decent guitar to start performing with, I think any of the options above would be good. But if you really want to dig into the sound quality, I’d take whatever PA rig she uses into a shop and try out guitars through that specific rig. That’s what I did and how I landed on the Larivee with the Anthem I use. I cared not what it sounded like unplugged, was only concerned with something that generated sounds I liked coming through our speakers. Turns out it’s a fantastic guitar, but I never would have picked it without that process.

Hope this helps.


Here’s the current setup

I’m jealous, it looks and sounds like you are having a blast doing that. 

[tbone_ 14016]

I’m jealous, it looks and sounds like you are having a blast doing that. 

Thanks. Total blast.

[Buzzrock 14790]

Well shit, my Line6 Relay G10 wireless unit crapped out. I got really used to not being tethered by a guitar cable but that’s the second one that has died on me (the first one immediately). Any suggestions on a replacement?

[Handcruser 2805]

Well shit, my Line6 Relay G10 wireless unit crapped out. I got really used to not being tethered by a guitar cable but that’s the second one that has died on me (the first one immediately). Any suggestions on a replacement?

Line7 or Line8 would be a massive upgrade.

[Deej 76310]

57 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Well shit, my Line6 Relay G10 wireless unit crapped out. I got really used to not being tethered by a guitar cable but that’s the second one that has died on me (the first one immediately). Any suggestions on a replacement?

 

[Buzzrock 14790]

I’ve got lots of those. Once you go commando you can’t go back.

[Deej 76310]

33 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

I’ve got lots of those. Once you go commando you can’t go back.

Tone is in the cable.

Nothing digital in the chain.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Deej

[Deej 76310]

[Buzzrock 14790]

Tone is in the cable.
Nothing digital in the chain.

I ain’t that sophis-cated.

[AnotherUTFan 9614]

This is too much.

I had a dream last night that i was building a run of partscasters for people in this thread much like I did with the Shaggy Screamers. I already had the decals for the headstocks. Get this, "Surlycaster"!

[Goredho 17247]

9 minutes ago, AnotherUTFan said:

This is too much.

I had a dream last night that i was building a run of partscasters for people in this thread much like I did with the Shaggy Screamers. I already had the decals for the headstocks. Get this, "Surlycaster"!

Should you need the inspiration...

[hullabelew 3698]

Let it be said. Let it be done.

[tbone_ 14016]

I’m in. Where do I send the check?

Can I get orange sparkle?

[Chad Fuck 17433]

In

[AnotherUTFan 9614]

I’m in. Where do I send the check?

Can I get orange sparkle?

If it happened, they would have to be orange Sparkle w White pickguards and maple fingerboards. No there color would do.

[noharleyyet 2828]

...needs another hmmmbucker

[Bogeywon 2518]

IN

[DougO 5238]

4 hours ago, Goredho said:

Should you need the inspiration...

A fitting compliment to the Vagicaster.

[tbone_ 14016]

If it happened, they would have to be orange Sparkle w White pickguards and maple fingerboards. No there color would do.

Candy Tangerine or Inferno Flake

[Deej 76310]

Sign me up for AUTF's Surlycaster.

[topochico 1048]

I'm in.  Plus one for heavy orange flake. 

 

 

[topochico 1048]

This exists near me and I continue to resist it due to the painted on F hole.

 

[Bogeywon 2518]

Like I said in because guitar

[Handcruser 2805]

I dont even play guitar and I want one too

[tigol 2381]

I dont even play guitar and I want one too

4-5 cowboy chords here. In.

[AnotherUTFan 9614]

This would be quite an undertaking. Let me think about it. No promises, but...

If I did do it, they'd need to be all the same so that I could ask Warmoth if they would do a volume discount since they could spray all the bodies and necks at once. Aside from a decal, we could probably get a custom neck plate done, or just have the blank ones engraved someplace.

Using Warmoth for everything but the pickups, they are about $950 ea. Budget $150 for a good set of pickups, $40 for a gig bag, and whatever shipping / packaging is to get them to everybody. I can set them up to be as playable as an American Fender is out of the box - likely better, but a lot of you still like to have your own guy do a better setup.

Using that math, how many of you would be interested. If I have an estimate I can reach out to Warmoth and go from there.

Edit- if I decide its too much for me, I bet we could find a builder to assemble them at a reasonable price.

I do think Inferno Flake is the color.

[Deej 76310]

[Deej 76310]

Can I get mine Esquired?

Just kidding. I can fix that up myself.

Might be better off just building them minus the wiring and pickups. Let everyone go the route they want to go. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Deej

[AnotherUTFan 9614]

Lets get a headcount and cost first, then we can talk about agreed standards and options. Maybe they can all be Esquire.

[Deej 76310]

9 minutes ago, AnotherUTFan said:

Maybe they can all be Esquire.

[Deej 76310]

Count me as definite. I would hate to be without one.

[Celery Man 20817]

[topochico 1048]

I am a definite yes. 

[Deej 76310]

Can we all agree on this?

 

[noharleyyet 2828]

...too many guard screws

[Deej 76310]

4 minutes ago, noharleyyet said:

...too many guard screws

That's an easy fix. 

[Celery Man 20817]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

Can we all agree on this?

 

That’s the bridge assembly IMO.

We should bully AUTF into making b benders