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Celery Man

By Celery Man
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JSB 677

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On 6/26/2022 at 12:44 PM, jimmyjazz said:

Got 3 myself.  Thanks.  Love the idea of spending $3.99 for an extended warranty on a $4.99 stand.

Uh, no thanks.

I picked up 2 as well. Halfway thinking of going to pick up a half dozen more, which would then give me an excuse to get a few new guitars.

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Welcome home, my love. New Tele American Pro II (stupid fucking name, fender)

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My daughter got her bumblebee telecaster today.  She was stoked, and so was I.

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Goredho

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Just now, Celery Man said:

wait are we giving Suhr shit for building a whole company off of Fender clones

Sure.  They are ripping off Fender body styles more than PRS at least until their is a PRS tele-style offering.  It's a fair criticism.

I am not sure why PRS gets the hate and other manufacturers that make S and T style guitars are largely exempt.  Silver Sky's were not the first guitars that copied Fender body styles and/or electronics.  I guess it makes sense for G&L to get a pass since Leo started the company, but everyone else?  Guilty.

Maybe it has something to do with the zealous nature of PRS fans?

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20886

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If I remember correctly, there was some buildup around the JM signature model. Like a Lebron "I'm taking my talents to south beach" type reveal, and then it was just a fucking strat. The pushback around that always made sense to me, but yeah I think it's also connected to PRS being the True Religion jeans of electric guitars (if true religion jeans were some of the best denim being made).

I wonder what the trajectory and assessment of PRS would be if it didn't have the double whammy of a) Carlos Santana dentist boomers and b) nu-metal in the early 2000s.

But fair is fair and Suhr seems like just the most successful (surely because they are high quality) of parts-o-caster producers like Nash, Tom Anderson, etc

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Goredho

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Posted
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2 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

If I remember correctly, there was some buildup around the JM signature model. Like a Lebron "I'm taking my talents to south beach" type reveal, and then it was just a fucking strat. The pushback around that always made sense to me, but yeah I think it's also connected to PRS being the True Religion jeans of electric guitars (if true religion jeans were some of the best denim being made).

I wonder what the trajectory and assessment of PRS would be if it didn't have the double whammy of a) Carlos Santana dentist boomers and b) nu-metal in the early 2000s.

But fair is fair and Suhr seems like just the most successful (surely because they are high quality) of parts-o-caster producers like Nash, Tom Anderson, etc

That makes sense.  All I really know is that my Suhr is badass, and I love the gold on matte-black look in that pic I posted.  I have a spot at some point for one more guitar, something modern voiced, and I'll be looking at Suhrs when the time comes.

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tbone_

tbone_ 14021

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I honestly don’t understand how people misconstrue the hate on PRS for the silver sky.

Is just what celery said - tons of hype for some new JM special - gonna be the end all be all, and when it comes out we find out they couldn’t have possibly made a more complete copy of a goddamn strat. But for the headstock, you can’t tell from any picture published that it’s not a Stratocaster.

Yes, lots of other manufacturers make their own “S style” or “T style” guitars. But thats what they call them. And it’s well acknowledged that they are simply trying to make marginal improvements on a well established design. Not to try and tell us they’ve created the best coolest guitar ever and not even acknowledge it’s an exact copy of the actual 2nd best coolest guitar ever that was invented 70 fucking years ago.

It would be just like if Tesla announced the newest coolest car ever and when unveiled it looked just like a 66 Mustang. The whole world would be like wtf?

Look at the Suhr for example. Yes, it’s a strat style. Great. But no one is going to look at that thing and mistake it for a strat, because it isn’t an exact fucking copy.

Look, personally I have no beef with any other PRS guitar. They’re great. I get it. But the silver sky is a fucking abomination. No offense meant to any of our guitar pron mafia who play them.

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tbone_

tbone_ 14021

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Nobody cares, but I find all PRS guitars to be design abominations. 
I mean, they're just flat fucking ugly.

Fair. But that’s at least subjective. The carbon copy of a strat is not subjective.

And David Grissom make them sound glorious. So I can at least understand the appreciation.
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dcbc

dcbc 14407

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19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Nobody cares, but I find all PRS guitars to be design abominations. 

I mean, they're just flat fucking ugly.

To each his own.  I mean, I'm not a PRS fanboi, but my 1999 HBII 10-top is a beautiful guitar.  And I say that as someone who never has considered buying another PRS.  To your point, I don't love the headstock and some of them have flamed tops that are just loud and ugly.  But as a blanket statement on the looks of the guitar, I dissent. 

 

I agree with tbone's assessment of the SilverSky.  It seems unnecessary.

 

Back to the HBII, they play really well, especially the early years like mine. 

Edited by dcbc
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45557

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Just now, dcbc said:

To each his own.  I mean, I'm not a PRS fanboi, but my 1999 HBII 10-top is a beautiful guitar.  And I say that as someone who never has considered buying another PRS.  To your point, I don't love the headstock and some of them have flamed tops that are just loud and ugly.  But as a blanket statement on the looks of the guitar, I dissent. 

 

Plus, they play really well, especially the early years like mine. 

I think the standard PRS body style is gross.

Then again, I don't have to buy one, and I won't.  I'm not gonna scold David Grissom for his choice in guitars, the dude has earned the right to play whatever he wants, and I could practice for 10,000 hours while he sits in a tequila coma on a beach and I still couldn't get anywhere near his skills.  I get it -- it's a tool.  It's just not for me.

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dcbc

dcbc 14407

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58 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Sure.  They are ripping off Fender body styles more than PRS at least until their is a PRS tele-style offering.  It's a fair criticism.

I am not sure why PRS gets the hate and other manufacturers that make S and T style guitars are largely exempt.  Silver Sky's were not the first guitars that copied Fender body styles and/or electronics.  I guess it makes sense for G&L to get a pass since Leo started the company, but everyone else?  Guilty.

Maybe it has something to do with the zealous nature of PRS fans?

The bodies and necks aren't subject to infringement, or so I've been made to understand.  The headstock is. 

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dcbc

dcbc 14407

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I think the standard PRS body style is gross.

Then again, I don't have to buy one, and I won't.  I'm not gonna scold David Grissom for his choice in guitars, the dude has earned the right to play whatever he wants, and I could practice for 10,000 hours while he sits in a tequila coma on a beach and I still couldn't get anywhere near his skills.  I get it -- it's a tool.  It's just not for me.

That's cool.  But gross?  It's just a double cut away guitar body.  Kind of has a strat shape to it. 

 

Again, some of of the finishes are ugly.  But the body shape doesn't strike me as offensive in the least.  But like you said, not for you.  Still, I hope this gives you nightmares. ;)

 

PRS-Hollowbody.jpg

 

 

Edited by dcbc
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dcbc

dcbc 14407

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17 minutes ago, tbone_ said:


Is this a true thing? I’ve always wondered why fender and Gibson didn’t sue the shit out of lots of other companies.

Looks like Gibson will go after body contours (they sued PRS over it's early single cut but lost on appeal) as well as headstock (mostly headstock).  Fender tried with the bodies, but the application got lots of push back from other builders (the body shape cat was out of the bag).  So they stick to headstock infringement.  Rickenbacker will go after body shapes and headstock. 

 

Some of those copies that have the same headstock are using Fender licensed necks.

 

https://davidsontm.wordpress.com/2009/12/17/three-chords-and-a-lawsuit-a-brief-history-of-guitars-and-trademarks/

 

Look at the subtle differences in the headstock on Collings guitars, for example.

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Anton Chigurh

Anton Chigurh 3318

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Looks like Gibson will go after body contours as well as headstock (mostly headstock).  Fender tried with the bodies, but the application got lots of push back from other builders (the body shape cat was out of the bag).  So they stick to headstock infringement.
 
Some of those copies that have the same headstock are using Fender licensed necks.
 
https://davidsontm.wordpress.com/2009/12/17/three-chords-and-a-lawsuit-a-brief-history-of-guitars-and-trademarks/
 
Look at the subtle differences in the headstock on Collings guitars, for example.

If you can’t beat ‘em, reverse ‘em.

2cd189f1f3667f19fded8f5720c2ec04.jpg
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Celery Man

Celery Man 20886

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1 hour ago, dcbc said:

Looks like Gibson will go after body contours (they sued PRS over it's early single cut but lost on appeal) as well as headstock (mostly headstock).  Fender tried with the bodies, but the application got lots of push back from other builders (the body shape cat was out of the bag).  So they stick to headstock infringement.  Rickenbacker will go after body shapes and headstock. 

 

Some of those copies that have the same headstock are using Fender licensed necks.

 

https://davidsontm.wordpress.com/2009/12/17/three-chords-and-a-lawsuit-a-brief-history-of-guitars-and-trademarks/

 

Look at the subtle differences in the headstock on Collings guitars, for example.

I think Fender has dabbled in some lawsuits on the licensed body stuff as well, although I may be misremembering from... probably 10 or 15 years ago they sued Nash for straight up using Fender decals I think (got too big to be allowed to make "replicas"). Maybe Kelton Swade was sued for the same thing? I think theoretically the officially licensed Fender bodies (like from Warmoth) are meant for end users rather than "manufacturers" but perhaps they lost that battle altogether.

58 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:


If you can’t beat ‘em, reverse ‘em.

2cd189f1f3667f19fded8f5720c2ec04.jpg

blew my mind when I saw that

 

original.jpg?1654764427

 

I've always liked the base PRS shape. I actually kinda like this one from Gibson that they stopped making, although more from a jolie laide/ugly beautiful perspective

03-2800000875688_1.jpg

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45557

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2 hours ago, dcbc said:

That's cool.  But gross?  It's just a double cut away guitar body.  Kind of has a strat shape to it. 

Yeah, gross.  It's a double cutaway, but the horns are too thin, the archtop is too obvious, and the body is too big relative to the horns (which goes hand in hand with the horns being too thin).

If you're gonna do a double cutaway, other than a Strat, which is so iconic it can't really be modified very well save the Ibanez style metal guitars (which I actually like), I can only abide symmetrical designs like the 335 or the LP Doublecut (which I don't like all that much, either).  Sorry, I'm old and set in my ways.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17565

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Yeah, gross.  It's a double cutaway, but the horns are too thin, the archtop is too obvious, and the body is too big relative to the horns (which goes hand in hand with the horns being too thin).
If you're gonna do a double cutaway, other than a Strat, which is so iconic it can't really be modified very well save the Ibanez style metal guitars (which I actually like), I can only abide symmetrical designs like the 335 or the LP Doublecut (which I don't like all that much, either).  Sorry, I'm old and set in my ways.

No Jazzmaster?

No SG?
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Deej

Deej 76566

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Wasn't Kelton Swade just buying licensed Fender parts and doing some cryogenic snake oil to the guitars to relic them and them selling them under his label? That seems like an issue. 

That dude got a lot of hate on the Tele forums. 

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dcbc

dcbc 14407

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, gross.  It's a double cutaway, but the horns are too thin, the archtop is too obvious, and the body is too big relative to the horns (which goes hand in hand with the horns being too thin).

If you're gonna do a double cutaway, other than a Strat, which is so iconic it can't really be modified very well save the Ibanez style metal guitars (which I actually like), I can only abide symmetrical designs like the 335 or the LP Doublecut (which I don't like all that much, either).  Sorry, I'm old and set in my ways.

Does the archtop insist on itself?

 

Well, at least we agree on the LP double cut.  Good luck to you, sir. 

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14871

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Posted
I honestly don’t understand how people misconstrue the hate on PRS for the silver sky.

Is just what celery said - tons of hype for some new JM special - gonna be the end all be all, and when it comes out we find out they couldn’t have possibly made a more complete copy of a goddamn strat. But for the headstock, you can’t tell from any picture published that it’s not a Stratocaster.

Yes, lots of other manufacturers make their own “S style” or “T style” guitars. But thats what they call them. And it’s well acknowledged that they are simply trying to make marginal improvements on a well established design. Not to try and tell us they’ve created the best coolest guitar ever and not even acknowledge it’s an exact copy of the actual 2nd best coolest guitar ever that was invented 70 fucking years ago.

It would be just like if Tesla announced the newest coolest car ever and when unveiled it looked just like a 66 Mustang. The whole world would be like wtf?

Look at the Suhr for example. Yes, it’s a strat style. Great. But no one is going to look at that thing and mistake it for a strat, because it isn’t an exact fucking copy.

Look, personally I have no beef with any other PRS guitar. They’re great. I get it. But the silver sky is a fucking abomination. No offense meant to any of our guitar pron mafia who play them.

I mean, they aren’t identical. But it’s a pointless debate. Some hate em, some don’t.

dadeae0fad466568f497a270493d2596.jpg
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dcbc

dcbc 14407

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3 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I think theoretically the officially licensed Fender bodies (like from Warmoth) are meant for end users rather than "manufacturers" but perhaps they lost that battle altogether.

I recall something about Warmoth or someone not being able to supply a relic'd, licensed, Fender neck, but you could purchase a licensed, Fender neck and send it to them to be relic'd. 

 

While there may be some instances of suits over body contours, mostly it's the headstock . . . mostly.

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Deej

Deej 76566

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1 minute ago, Celery Man said:

Fewer pickguard screws on the silver sky.

Only matters on a Tele. 

More than 5 on a Tele is like UT going to alternate colors on their football uniforms.

Edited by Deej
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Bogeywon

Bogeywon 2518

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Posted
5 hours ago, dcbc said:

That's cool.  But gross?  It's just a double cut away guitar body.  Kind of has a strat shape to it. 

 

Again, some of of the finishes are ugly.  But the body shape doesn't strike me as offensive in the least.  But like you said, not for you.  Still, I hope this gives you nightmares. ;)

 

PRS-Hollowbody.jpg

 

 

21542AB4-E8DC-4531-B490-F7C483F0C98E.gif.8bfa49873a13ce4c4ac5886a27fd7bf2.gif

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dcbc

dcbc 14407

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This is starting to remind me of the thread on thegearpage where the guy was arguing that the critical difference between vintage teles and the c/s teles was that the necks on the older ones were flatsawn while the c/s ones largely are quartersawn.  It was like someone farted in an stuck elevator.

Edited by dcbc
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Bogeywon

Bogeywon 2518

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, dcbc said:

That's cool.  But gross?  It's just a double cut away guitar body.  Kind of has a strat shape to it. 

 

Again, some of of the finishes are ugly.  But the body shape doesn't strike me as offensive in the least.  But like you said, not for you.  Still, I hope this gives you nightmares. ;)

 

PRS-Hollowbody.jpg

 

 

Specs? What model is that?

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dcbc

dcbc 14407

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Bogeywon said:

Specs? What model is that?

1999 McCarty Hollowbody II.  10-Top.  Maple top (carved) and back.  Routed body with sound post under the bridge - sympathetic vibration between top and back.  No center block like later models.  Mahogany sides and neck.  Indian rosewood fretboard; 24 frets.  PRS Archtop pickups.

Edited by dcbc
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Bogeywon

Bogeywon 2518

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13 minutes ago, dcbc said:

1999 McCarty Hollowbody II.  10-Top.  Maple top (carved) and back.  Routed body with sound post under the bridge - sympathetic vibration between top and back.  No center block like later models.  Mahogany sides and neck.  Indian rosewood fretboard; 24 frets.  PRS Archtop pickups.

Drroooool

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