The Guitar Pron Thread

[locodos 5329]

11 hours ago, Napoleon said:

I would say that my LPB is much more Ocean Turquoise than a traditional LPB, but I like it. 

The aqua marine hints of green give it more life than just being a cold blue with hints a silver shimmer underneath.

My Squier CV LPB Mustang seems to be more of a traditional LPB.

 

Nerd Alert:

Spoiler

 

Lake Placid Blue was a metallic finish from Fender, which officially became available as a custom colour on the company's guitars in 1960. The finish was originally achieved with an existing metallic blue car paint, sealed with an acrylic lacquer top coat. The top coat was switched for polyester when traditional style finishes were dropped by Fender in the latter 1960s. However, the look of Lake Placid Blue (often abbreviated to LPB – initially by Fender themselves) came from a single car spray, unlike Candy Apple Red, which was made from two colour stages – a metallic silver or gold colour base layer, coated over with translucent red.

The clear top coats on all the Fender metallic finishes were crucial. Without them, the high gloss pro finish could not be achieved without destroying the uniformity and effect of the metallic paint as the body was rubbed down. Although most of the non-metallic solid-colour finishes did also have clear top coats, the lacquer wasn’t absolutely necessary with those, and some non-metallic, solid-colour guitars were rubbed down and cut to a high gloss on the paint coats themselves. Such ‘unsealed’ guitars tend not to suffer from progressive yellowing to anything like the extent that clear lacquer-coated guitars do.

Given the variations in lighting, and the tendency of the photographic process to warp colour, it’s difficult to get an idea on the Internet, or indeed in books, of how a finish precisely looks in reality. However, I’ve made an effort here to ensure the colour in the illustration looks like what I consider the best representation of Lake Placid Blue. I use Adobe Gamma to keep my monitor as near to neutral as possible. But of course, if your monitor has a different colour rendition from mine, you won’t see the precise colour I’m seeing.

Lake Placid Blue was a fairly subtle shade, which could be described as a darkish blue. However, the metallic nature of the paint meant that changes in the lighting angle would brighten the appearance of the shade – potentially very significantly. What LPB wasn’t, is a rich, royal blue, or a turquoise. It was meant to represent a blue lake, and that’s exactly the type of colour it was.

The ageing and yellowing of the clear lacquer over the metallic paintwork could turn the finish greenish-blue. In fact, after the effects of ageing, an original Lake Placid Blue could end up almost impossible to distinguish from an Ocean Turquoise – which, confusingly, was actually a deep, greenish-blue, and not a real turquoise. The only way to tell them apart would be to pick away some of the clear top coat beneath the scratchplate around a screw hole. That would reveal the colour of the paint itself, without the yellowed lacquer. As new, the two colours were distinctly different, so with the top coat chipped away in an area not exposed to much daylight, there’d be no doubt which was which.

It should be stressed that whilst LPB became officially available in 1960, it was not a standard colour option. For Stratocasters, Jazzmasters and Jaguars, the standard finish was sunburst, and custom finishes like Lake Placid Blue cost extra. The Telecaster’s standard finish was blond. The original run for Lake Placid Blue in the Fender paint chart ended in 1973 when Fender completely abandoned metallic and indeed coloured finishes per se. Through the mid 1970s, only black, white, blond and sunburst remained alongside the natural wood options.

Lake Placid Blue notably returned on Fender’s The Strat – a welcome departure from the late ‘70s Stratocaster, introduced in 1980 and featuring a combination of preferred older features (four-screw neck, small headstock, etc) luxuries like gold-plated hardware, and modern ‘enhancements’. Subsequently, Lake Placid Blue was standardised as a colour for the American ’57 and ’62 Reissue Stratocasters – despite the real ‘57s predating the development of Lake Placid Blue as a car paint.

Alongside Candy Apple Red, whose history is expored in full in the Candy Apple Red article, Lake Placid Blue remains one of the most famous and best known Fender custom colours. These two finishes kept the original concept of stunningly attractive metallic colours alive for the longest period beyond the CBS era, outlasting Ocean Turquoise, Firemist Gold and Firemist Silver, which were the only other metallics to make it beyond the 'sixties. But since Lake Placid Blue predated the introduction of Candy Apple Red, it has to be considered the overriding stalwart of all original metallic Fender finishes.
 

 

[G650 13989]

There's quite a few pictures on the web of Aqua Marine, Ocean and LPB Strats side by side, they are all very close.

 

Just as a heads up to the group I'm thinking about selling this one, I've really wanted a natural ash Strat for awhile and I only bought this one because it was a great deal as a beater to save wear on my Strat Plus. I paid 950 for it and would let it go to any of yall for that. Probably list it on Reverb for ~1250.

[DougO 5239]

The color that replaced LPB on Players series is Tidepool, and also pretty close. Very slightly greenish. 

Still much closer than the Squire bullet LPB sample I sent back.

[Napoleon 8595]

30 minutes ago, DougO said:

The color that replaced LPB on Players series is Tidepool, and also pretty close. Very slightly greenish. 

Still much closer than the Squire bullet LPB sample I sent back.

Yeah, not a fan of Tidepool. Too green for my liking.

[Bogeywon 2518]

 

This is the jam spot

[Deej 76508]

[G650 13989]

On 1/15/2023 at 8:42 AM, G650 said:

There's quite a few pictures on the web of Aqua Marine, Ocean and LPB Strats side by side, they are all very close.

 

Just as a heads up to the group I'm thinking about selling this one, I've really wanted a natural ash Strat for awhile and I only bought this one because it was a great deal as a beater to save wear on my Strat Plus. I paid 950 for it and would let it go to any of yall for that. Probably list it on Reverb for ~1250.

So I did put this up on TGP and Strat Talk for 1250. Probably going to just do that for the moment as I don't want the Reverb hassle and I'm honestly pretty happy with other than I want a different finish.

[Goredho 17301]

I dunno what you are talking about.  That’s a gorgeous finish, @G650.

I fucked around and found out again.  The other Highway 1 is still at the tech, and this one lept into my arms from guitar center.  Its a fender special run in two tone sunburst and has none of the issues I am having fixed with the first.  It’s just a bad ass player and the neck is perfect for me.  I opened it up tonight to see what I had bought, and lo and behold, whoever sold it to GC had already put some custom shop pups in it.  No idea what they are, but they sound pretty good to me.

 I’ll get the other one back, play em side by side for awhile, keep the best of the two and sell the other.  I am going to be surprised if this ain’t the one, though.  It’s a better strat for me than any others I’ve owned or played and that’s including a fucking Silver Sky, heh.

 

[G650 13989]

Hell yeah man.

 

I do like the color on this Ocean Strat btw, I just have the old blueburst already and want to mix it up a bit.

[noharleyyet 2835]

16 hours ago, Goredho said:

I dunno what you are talking about.  That’s a gorgeous finish, @G650.

I fucked around and found out again.  The other Highway 1 is still at the tech, and this one lept into my arms from guitar center.  Its a fender special run in two tone sunburst and has none of the issues I am having fixed with the first.  It’s just a bad ass player and the neck is perfect for me.  I opened it up tonight to see what I had bought, and lo and behold, whoever sold it to GC had already put some custom shop pups in it.  No idea what they are, but they sound pretty good to me.

 I’ll get the other one back, play em side by side for awhile, keep the best of the two and sell the other.  I am going to be surprised if this ain’t the one, though.  It’s a better strat for me than any others I’ve owned or played and that’s including a fucking Silver Sky, heh.

 

That beauty really ties the Sangre de Christo, Mosquito, and Sawatch Ranges together. 

[locodos 5329]

16 hours ago, Goredho said:

 

If you trim that grass it'll make your deck look bigger

Edited January 17, 2023 by locodos

[Goredho 17301]

23 minutes ago, locodos said:

If you trim that grass it'll make your deck look bigger

Your concern for the size of my deck is appreciated, but not necessary 😜

[noharleyyet 2835]

24 minutes ago, locodos said:

If you trim that grass it'll make your deck look bigger

[Deej 76508]

 

[G650 13989]

 

Well I just spent a couple enjoyable hours down at the guitar shop plotting. When I got this '58, I was on the fence on what to do with it. The price I got it for made me confident I could always get the money back out of it plus some, so at the least I'd play it for awhile and flip it. Well, it turns out this is a really, really good guitar. It was the best burst I played from an admittedly small sample. After I had bought it, I was exchanging emails with the sales guy at Carter's, who flat out said the '60 they just sold for twice as much was markedly inferior playing, it just had original paint while this one was a refin.

 

So the question became what to do here. The fact I have a guy here that can not only do a real vintage finish, and more than that realllly cares about this sort of thing tipped the scales. We are going to take it down to bare wood and give it a proper refinish. This is the third one he will have done, the first '58, the others were '59s while he was at Gibson. The plan is to have a photographer document the entire process with the eye on probably doing a magazine feature on it in the future. Once the work it done we are both going to head to Nashville and Gibson will stamp a new serial on it with the real tooling.

 

This should kick off in earnest in April. I will post up progress, I'm honestly super excited to watch this process unfold.

 

Also, gratuitous pic of the old milling machine from Kalamazoo he has, plus old lathe.

 

 

[Goredho 17301]

I think you just won this thread, @G650.  I would love to see any updates through the process.

[G650 13989]

18 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I think you just won this thread, @G650.  I would love to see any updates through the process.

In total honesty I think the bumblebee guitar won the thread. That kind of unbridled joy is amazing, I loved that more than anything I've seen here. That kind of magic is irreplaceable and everything we do after is just chasing that feeling, way better than anything this old dude is doing.

 

That said I'm immensely excited for this. It's just such a unique opportunity and I feel fortunate that the circumstances allow it. Much more excited than paying even more insane money for a collector grade that gets locked up, which I flat out would not have done. The process is really the turn on for me.

[Chad Fuck 17503]

Did I miss something?  Is this a real '58 @G650?

What's the story here?

Looking forward to the next installment.

[G650 13989]

7 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Did I miss something?  Is this a real '58 @G650?

What's the story here?

Looking forward to the next installment.

Ha. Yes it is a real '58. I got it from Carter's in Nashville, I'll regale everyone with the backstory as this moves forward. It won't begin in earnest until April as my guy is going to clear his bench completely and work solely on this for the month.

[Deej 76508]

 

[Chad Fuck 17503]

Ha. Yes it is a real '58. I got it from Carter's in Nashville, I'll regale everyone with the backstory as this moves forward. It won't begin in earnest until April as my guy is going to clear his bench completely and work solely on this for the month.

Damn. That’s like the biggest news to hit this thread.

[G650 13989]

4 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Damn. That’s like the biggest news to hit this thread.

By the time it's all done I think it will definitely be pretty amazing. In and of itself, I think it's a cool guitar for sure, but I have never been a burst fanatic by any stretch. The history of them is more intriguing to me than most of the actual instruments, though this one plays immaculately. And has a super good set of PAFs. The chance to restore this one to its original glory though is what really stokes me.

 

[jimmyjazz 45512]

WTF?  We own a real '58?  

[Deej 76508]

I might see about helping Ukraine.

 

[Deej 76508]

 

[Buzzrock 14867]

Folks just casually dropping 50s Les Pauls up in this piece.

[Butch Had Not 2940]

 

 

[AnotherUTFan 9658]

I've actually been following the '58 story we have going on here, but somehow am in the dark about the bumblebee he mentions as the highlight of the thread??

I think that there's a poster here w an actual '59 'burst whose yet to appear in this thread as well.

Always a fascinating place, this board through all its iterations.

[BoomMF 1398]

This news makes me tingly. I mean, I know you SAID '58 but I read R8 and was just proceeding accordingly. Surely you werent' talking about an honest to goodness 1958 made in the year of our lord 1958. This is beyond astonishing and I look forward to watching Lifetime TV movie of how this came to be.

[G650 13989]

3 hours ago, AnotherUTFan said:

I've actually been following the '58 story we have going on here, but somehow am in the dark about the bumblebee he mentions as the highlight of the thread??

@Goredhodaughters Telecaster. In all seriousness my favorite picture on here, so much happiness.

Edited January 18, 2023 by G650

[Chad Fuck 17503]

This news makes me tingly. I mean, I know you SAID '58 but I read R8 and was just proceeding accordingly. Surely you werent' talking about an honest to goodness 1958 made in the year of our lord 1958. This is beyond astonishing and I look forward to watching Lifetime TV movie of how this came to be.

All of this.

[Goredho 17301]

55 minutes ago, G650 said:

@Goredhodaughters Telecaster. In all seriousness my favorite picture on here, so much happiness.

I dunno, man.  I bet you'll give her a run for her money when your project is done and you first look at the result.

[Goredho 17301]

4 hours ago, AnotherUTFan said:

I've actually been following the '58 story we have going on here, but somehow am in the dark about the bumblebee he mentions as the highlight of the thread??

I think that there's a poster here w an actual '59 'burst whose yet to appear in this thread as well.

Always a fascinating place, this board through all its iterations.

I think you are right about the poster with a 59 or something in the burst era, but we don't get to ogle it, so who knows if it realllly exists

[Goredho 17301]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

@Goredhodaughters Telecaster. In all seriousness my favorite picture on here, so much happiness.

Meanwhile, somewhere JoeB be like…

Edited January 18, 2023 by Goredho

[Goredho 17301]

@G650 any chance you have some pics of your ‘58 LP in the state you bought it in so we can see a before and after when your restore is done?

[G650 13989]

5 hours ago, BoomMF said:

This news makes me tingly. I mean, I know you SAID '58 but I read R8 and was just proceeding accordingly. Surely you werent' talking about an honest to goodness 1958 made in the year of our lord 1958. This is beyond astonishing and I look forward to watching Lifetime TV movie of how this came to be.

 

It shall be done.

 

2 hours ago, Goredho said:

I dunno, man.  I bet you'll give her a run for her money when your project is done and you first look at the result.

 

Ha, maybe. I just think back to my first guitars and that feeling and I'm not sure this can match that. Push come to shove and I had to only keep one LP and it 100% would be my '77.

 

43 minutes ago, Goredho said:

@G650 any chance you have some pics of your ‘58 LP in the state you bought it in so we can see a before and after when your restore is done?

That picture up there of it on the bench is how it came. This is shot of it in Carter's when they were doing the setup for me.

 

[tbone_ 14020]

That’s seriously bad ass

[AnotherUTFan 9658]

[mention=1139]Goredho[/mention]daughters Telecaster. In all seriousness my favorite picture on here, so much happiness.

Oh, that Bumblebee. That is a great one. Fantastic photo.

[Deej 76508]

That '58, after multiple refinishes...

[G650 13989]

15 hours ago, Deej said:

 

 

This was a pretty well done video. He did have a couple errors in it, one somewhat minor, and one pretty mega, though not necessarily about bursts. The minor one is PAF stickers started in '57 not '58, and the super mega I'll never forgive mistake (not really) is Slash's original replica was made by Kris Derrig, not Max Baranet.

[Deej 76508]

Is it just me, or is there a disturbing lack of pics of this 58? We need hi-res closeups of every piece of it. 

[G650 13989]

Whatcha wanna see. Ask and ye shall receive

[AnotherUTFan 9658]

Whatcha wanna see. Ask and ye shall receive

As the owner of an 2014 R8 clone, I'd like tonsee pics of the following just to compare. No rush, wait till it's opened up.

A couple shots inside the control cavities - aside from the electonics, I've read the originals were routed on 2 planes seperately.,

Some pics of the pick up rings - the year after mine Gibson advertised they had changed them to be more like the originals.

A good straight on headstock pic, front and back.

Close pic of frett marker, binding, and side dots.

Measurement upper and lower bout at the widest point and waist narrowest point (my friends 2002 R8 differs from mine slightly).

Input jack.

Also, for other reasons, document the finish as is so we have before and afters.

That's off the top of my head.

[G650 13989]

11 minutes ago, AnotherUTFan said:

As the owner of an 2014 R8 clone, I'd like tonsee pics of the following just to compare. No rush, wait till it's opened up.

A couple shots inside the control cavities - aside from the electonics, I've read the originals were routed on 2 planes seperately.,

Some pics of the pick up rings - the year after mine Gibson advertised they had changed them to be more like the originals.

A good straight on headstock pic, front and back.

Close pic of frett marker, binding, and side dots.

Measurement upper and lower bout at the widest point and waist narrowest point (my friends 2002 R8 differs from mine slightly).

Input jack.

Also, for other reasons, document the finish as is so we have before and afters.

That's off the top of my head.
 

Yeah no worries, I actually have most of that already from when I bought it. Once I fire up my computer tomorrow I can get them

In terms of cavities, you have control cavity, and switch cavity. One of the ways you can separate bursts from a 58 Goldtop that was refinished is the switch cavity routing which changed. 57 and before had a different switch route than either. The control cavity will have the basic routing of the mahogany, and the pot routing as well, which leaves chew marks on the cavity wall by the volume pots, with the bridge pot side being more significant. The R8s make this like a smooth dimple instead of a chew mark, but approximate the effect. There is also specific entry and exit points for the wiring which are slightly different on reissues, they are using the 1959 and up ground wiring channel.

You should be able to zoom in on the other images but I can take some shots of the rings for sure. By far the biggest difference is material. You can instantly see real M69s under blacklight.

 

The celluloid for the original bursts fret markers is very specific. Every block of celluloid is unique in pattern, and apparently Gibson had this massive hunk they did every guitar with for like 10 years or something back then. It has a vertical strip pattern that is different than any of the others. Very noticeable when you look. You will also see shrinkage that leaves small gaps around fret markers, and this pretty much only comes with age. The fretboard on these is generally much darker Brazilian rosewood as well.

 

I'll certainly check on the measurements but that may be a little longer. I hear variations of up to 3mm are possible. There a lot of odds ands ends to I'm sure I'll relay, like headstock shape and various things specific to this era.

[Goredho 17301]

So speaking of my daughter’s bumblebee guitar… with her getting that, both my kids that play have now officially outgrown the squire mini strat they shared while little.  I am pretty sure it works fine (I need to plug it in and make sure), but is covered in stickers and kid snot and needs a new bridge saddle screw for the 1st string.  If any of you guys have a younger kid that needs a guitar, you can just have it.  Lemme know.

[Buzzrock 14867]

Can I get extra snot??

[G650 13989]

That's the same axe I got my son. Nice little starter

[G650 13989]

10 hours ago, AnotherUTFan said:

As the owner of an 2014 R8 clone, I'd like tonsee pics of the following just to compare. No rush, wait till it's opened up.

A couple shots inside the control cavities - aside from the electonics, I've read the originals were routed on 2 planes seperately.,

Some pics of the pick up rings - the year after mine Gibson advertised they had changed them to be more like the originals.

A good straight on headstock pic, front and back.

Close pic of frett marker, binding, and side dots.

Measurement upper and lower bout at the widest point and waist narrowest point (my friends 2002 R8 differs from mine slightly).

Input jack.

Also, for other reasons, document the finish as is so we have before and afters.

That's off the top of my head.
 

 

It was too dark this morning to take the headstock or binding shots, but we are jamming later so I will get some then. I'll point out some of things about the burst headstocks then.

 

I have one crappy control cavity pick of mine. If you are interested in comparing though, burst serial has a ton of cavity shots. It's a really good resource. You'll notice the ground wire channel is not visible here, it goes down beside the neck volume pot instead if a little up the cavity wall like 59 and on. You can also see the different routing in the maple top that you were mentioning.

 

Switch cavity. It's one diameter all the way down. In early 58, it had a stairstep routing halfway down. In 57 and earlier it was narrower and one size.

 

 

Pickups and routing. These give a good shot of the M69s. Neck tenon also, plus fret markers. You can see vertical striping on cellulose clearly, and the shrinking. My bridge pickup cover had been off and on once for some reason. Repair, check bobbin color, just have no cover to look like Page, I dunno why.

 

 

 

 

Original poker chip, and good shot of corner of M69

 

 

 

[Chad Fuck 17503]

I’ve mentioned my guitar trading bud here before. He came across these from some folks who run estate sales. They knew he was a guitar trader and set these aside. Looks like both are 1962 models. So clean I thought they were reissues. I’m trying to make a deal
with him, but I’m afraid they’re out of my range.

[G650 13989]

11 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I’ve mentioned my guitar trading bud here before. He came across these from some folks who run estate sales. They knew he was a guitar trader and set these aside. Looks like both are 1962 models. So clean I thought they were reissues. I’m trying to make a deal
with him, but I’m afraid they’re out of my range.

Goddamn I literally just bought a brown Deluxe yesterday.