Texas Recruiting Notes 2020

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

7 hours ago, Not a Sock said:

This staff refusal to give out offers is fucking dumb and it's where Herman's ego needs to get checked, when Texas has couple playoff appearances and put a few kids in the league then Texas can be uber selective with it's offers but right now it means they are playing from behind.

Yes.  Second year in a row that bama has beaten us in recruiting.  Tired of it. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

Bama actually finished 5th last cycle but I get your point. 

Only 1 school has finished above us both cycles (Georgia). 

Texas should probably make some changes/improvements on staff but I don’t get why people think they need to make significant changes when only 1 or 2 teams in the country are out recruiting us. 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by texasstrong12

[SydneyCarton 48150]

52 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Bama actually finished 5th last cycle but I get your point. 

Only 1 school has finished above us both cycles (Georgia). 

Texas should probably make some changes/improvements on staff but I don’t get why people think they need to make significant changes when only 1 or 2 teams in the country are out recruiting us. 

 

Because blanket stetements often mask significant issues. For example, what if Texas was signing top 3 classes consistently but never took a qb?

[Laga4 1270]

14 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Because blanket stetements often mask significant issues. For example, what if Texas was signing top 3 classes consistently but never took a qb?

We tried that.  It didn't work.

[texasstrong12 4668]

22 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Because blanket stetements often mask significant issues. For example, what if Texas was signing top 3 classes consistently but never took a qb?

Yeah, but how is never taking a QB similar to being selective with offers? 

I guess my point is there isn't a one size fits all approach to recruiting. You either make your philosophy work or you don't. Some coaches are successful being selective and some are successful throwing out a billion offers a cycle. 

Based on Herman's approach to attrition and mental evaluations I don't think he's going to overhaul his philosophy on offers when he's landing as much talent as almost anyone else in the country.  

[SydneyCarton 48150]

22 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yeah, but how is never taking a QB similar to being selective with offers? 

I guess my point is there isn't a one size fits all approach to recruiting. You either make your philosophy work or you don't. Some coaches are successful being selective and some are successful throwing out a billion offers a cycle. 

Based on Herman's approach to attrition and mental evaluations I don't think he's going to overhaul his philosophy on offers when he's landing as much talent as almost anyone else in the country.  

My response to your post wasn't as much about recruiting philosophy as it was the comment about making significant changes to staff if we're recruiting so well. That's why I specifically used the QB illustration. Looking at recruiting rankings to judge how well you're recruiting in a vacuum, as we all know, is a dangerous habit to get into. Another existing scenario would be aTm recruiting receivers well under Sumlin and nothing else, etc. I'd argue that despite doing great in recruiting, we've left significant money on the table in certain areas, and some of those spots are potentially debilitating. 

The primary example I'd throw out on our roster is Running Back. We're dangerously thin there, and that was before the only guy we signed this cycle was struck with a tragic, likely career ending injury. And the guy in charge of that position was supposed to be the roster's recruiting rainmaker. We have 3 scholarship backs on the roster, and one of them is made of spun glass. If he doesn't land Zach Evans in this cycle he needs to be out of a job. 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by SydneyCarton

[Not a Sock 2339]

36 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Because blanket stetements often mask significant issues. For example, what if Texas was signing top 3 classes consistently but never took a qb?

Or Texas signing the #3 class that needed two RB and now tragically has none because Herman spent an enormous amount of effort chasing a white whale and neglected our more realistic options.

[Fud 9552]

2 minutes ago, Not a Sock said:

Or Texas signing the #3 class that needed two RB and now tragically has none because Herman spent an enormous amount of effort chasing a white whale and neglected our more realistic options.

At this point, we should count Whittington as a RB in the class 

[texasstrong12 4668]

5 minutes ago, Not a Sock said:

Or Texas signing the #3 class that needed two RB and now tragically has none because Herman spent an enormous amount of effort chasing a white whale and neglected our more realistic options.

But that had little to do with being selective with offers. The mistake there was not allocating enough time to RBs like Stevenson, Glass, DJ Williams types. They offered plenty of RBs they just didn't keep them warm enough while they chased Sanders and Cain. 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by texasstrong12

[Machinator 32099]

1 minute ago, texasstrong12 said:

But that had little to do with being selective with offers. The mistake there was not allocating enough time to RBs like Stevenson, Glass, DJ Williams types. They offered plenty of RBs they just didn't keep them warm enough while they chased Sanders and Cain. 

 

I think the broader point is, don't use class ranking to say all is well (or on the other side of the coin, the sky is falling).

[SydneyCarton 48150]

12 minutes ago, Not a Sock said:

Or Texas signing the #3 class that needed two RB and now tragically has none because Herman spent an enormous amount of effort chasing a white whale and neglected our more realistic options.

I'm perfectly comfortable, and often happy to criticize Herman. But Tom Herman isn't/can't take a personal hand in EVERY recruitment. It's not realistic and it's not going to happen. Therefore, if I'm Tom Herman, and my "rainmaking" RB coach is sitting there telling me that we 100% are getting one of Sanders, or Cain, or the Stevenson...well, ok. What's he supposed to do with that? "You know what, fuck that, lets get on this glass kid that none of us really like." There is such a thing as the guy being fed bad information from his lieutenants. Do I know this was the case specifically with RBs, Herman, and Drayton last cycle? No, I'm speculating. And yes, if I'm correct that would be all the more reason for Herman to re-calibrate his recruiting staff and make changes to process or personnel. And that is definitely on him. 

What I do know is that Oscar Giles tells people he's getting all his top targets all the fucking time, and we all know how that seems to work out for us. That's why I cringe when I hear that Herman is going to let Giles out on the trail without his hand being held for Collins. Because who could fuck possibly up that recruitment? Well, I guess we are going to find out.

Edited February 5, 2019 by SydneyCarton

[SydneyCarton 48150]

5 minutes ago, Fud said:

At this point, we should count Whittington as a RB in the class 

That's perfectly fair. But until he goes apeshit in the state title game, he was a WR all the way. We backed into him at RB, and that is lucky on our part, but it doesn't signify any kind of master plan by the staff. 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

9 minutes ago, Not a Sock said:

Or Texas signing the #3 class that needed two RB and now tragically has none because Herman spent an enormous amount of effort chasing a white whale and neglected our more realistic options.

This is a ridiculous take.

 

 

 

 

Cain was more of a pink elephant.

[texasstrong12 4668]

8 minutes ago, Machinator said:

I think the broader point is, don't use class ranking to say all is well (or on the other side of the coin, the sky is falling).

Sure, there is always context and  area for improvement. But if you're consistently landing top 5ish classes the bottom line is you're likely recruiting well and your philosophy is working. 

Again, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be staff upgrades. My point was more big picture. I don't think you're going to see a coach change his approach or philosophy to offers when he's landing top 5ish classes. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by texasstrong12

[Not a Sock 2339]

12 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

But that had little to do with being selective with offers. The mistake there was not allocating enough time to RBs like Stevenson, Glass, DJ Williams types. 

 

My point I have been trying to make is that Herman often grossly overestimates his position, we were never truly in it with Sanders and he should have know that but he wanted his shock the nation moment and went all in. I can see his plan for Texas and what he wants to be as an elite program but we're not there yet. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Not a Sock

[irishtexan 11522]

10 minutes ago, Fud said:

At this point, we should count Whittington as a RB in the class 

But only out of necessity. He was supposed to be a WR/utility knife kind of dude. Now he's got to be viewed as a versatile RB, but mostly a traditional RB. That's sub-optimal and not how the staff envisioned his role in the offense.  

[irishtexan 11522]

2 minutes ago, Not a Sock said:

My point I have been trying to make is that Herman often grossly overestimates his position we where never truly in it with Sanders and he should have know that but he wanted his shock the nation moment and went all in. I can see his plan for Texas and what he wants to be as an elite program but we're not there yet. 

Shooters shoot. I don't blame him for aggressively going after Sanders. But we probably should have had another dude we were also targeting. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

3 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

But only out of necessity. He was supposed to be a WR/utility knife kind of dude. Now he's got to be viewed as a versatile RB, but mostly a traditional RB. That's sub-optimal and not how the staff envisioned his role in the offense.  

Is is it sub-optimal? Part of the argument for why people wanted Bru on defense is the idea we have a stacked WR class. 

Getting all the talent on the field seems to be the most optimal approach. Assuming Whittington can fill the need at RB. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by texasstrong12

[Machinator 32099]

4 minutes ago, Not a Sock said:

My point I have been trying to make is that Herman often grossly overestimates his position we where never truly in it with Sanders and he should have know that but he wanted his shock the nation moment and went all in. I can see his plan for Texas and what he wants to be as an elite program but we're not there yet. 

I get you on the RB strategy but you're overreacting on the selectivity of offers based on one incomplete data point. If he visits Texas, who gives a fuck if we're not in his top 12?

[Fud 9552]

10 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

But only out of necessity. He was supposed to be a WR/utility knife kind of dude. Now he's got to be viewed as a versatile RB, but mostly a traditional RB. That's sub-optimal and not how the staff envisioned his role in the offense.  

I'm not sure if it's necessarily suboptimal in his usage, he's been saying "they want to use me like Kamara or McCaffrey" for awhile now. He's elite out of the backfield in the passing game; corners have trouble covering him, how the hell are box safeties and linebackers going to? If you're saying that it's suboptimal to not have a volume back in the class, I agree, although Whittington could get there eventually 

Additionally, we never take the TE off the field and already have Jake Smith , so he would have been taken out of his natural slot WR spot and been put at Z WR, which would be.. suboptimal 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Fud

[SydneyCarton 48150]

1 minute ago, irishtexan said:

Shooters shoot. I don't blame him for aggressively going after Sanders. But we probably should have had another dude we were also targeting. 

We did. We had 3 of them (DJ Williams was never realistic). They were all varying degrees of high profile, and we whiffed on all 3. I'm perfectly happy with him being aggressive, but I'm critical of his ability to cut bait when appropriate, and at this point I'm critical of him trusting the feedback he's getting from his RB coach. Stevenson was ahead of Noah Cain on our big board. We should have fucking landed that guy, period. 

[UncleBuck 6455]

10 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

That's perfectly fair. But until he goes apeshit in the state title game, he was a WR all the way. We backed into him at RB, and that is lucky on our part, but it doesn't signify any kind of master plan by the staff. 

I don't think it was only the state title game that had Herman and Co thinking about the possibility at RB. Herman's a pro. He isn't gunna go changing the way he uses kids based off of one 4A Division II title game performance. Whittington has been exhibiting running back traits for a very long time. I remember telling my father in law, before the title game when he was asking me about Whitt, that Texas may see him as a guy they can use at RB who can kill you lining up in the slot etc...

Edited February 5, 2019 by UncleBuck

[texifornia 57079]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

We did. We had 3 of them (DJ Williams was never realistic). They were all varying degrees of high profile, and we whiffed on all 3. I'm perfectly happy with him being aggressive, but I'm critical of his ability to cut bait when appropriate, and at this point I'm critical of him trusting the feedback he's getting from his RB coach. Stevenson was ahead of Noah Cain on our big board. We should have fucking landed that guy, period.  

Not even getting a visit was pretty fucking sad.

[SydneyCarton 48150]

1 minute ago, texasstrong12 said:

Is is it sub-optimal? Part of the argument for why people wanted Bru on defense is the idea we have a stacked WR class. 

Getting all the talent on the field seems to be the most optimal approach. Assuming Whittington can fill the need at RB. 

Uh, people want Bru on defense because elite LBs are harder to find than elite WRs, and because most folks seem to profile his ceiling higher at LB in terms of getting to the NFL. We were happy to put him at WR because 1.) It's where he wanted to go and we landed him, but 2.) LJH leaving after having whet everyone's appetite for an ass kicking beast at slot. The natural slots for Herman's offense are Jake Smith/Jordan Whittington types. LJH changed the game. Otherwise we'd all be screaming for how to get Bru on defense. 

Whittington has great use for us and I'm as excited as anyone about the formation opportunities he's going to bring to the table . But in terms of legitimate, straight up carries, he's probably an 8-12 carry a game kid. And that's under optimal circumstances if we don't want to break him, especially in his first year. We need another guy to get 10 carries, and that is IF Ingram is healthy enough to log in 20 or so carries a game, which is still a big If. 

[SydneyCarton 48150]

3 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

I don't think it was only the state title game that had Herman and Co thinking about the possibility at RB. Herman's a pro. He isn't gunna go changing the way he uses kids based off of one 4A Division II title game performance. Whittington has been exhibiting running back traits for a very long time. I remember telling my father in law, before the title game when he was asking me about Whitt, that Texas may see him as a guy they can use at RB who can kill you lining up in the slot etc...

I agree. It wasn't just the state title game. It was also the fact we whiffed on every other RB target. All the word about whittington all season was Slot Slot Slot. We started hearing things differently shockingly the same time he went bonkers in the state championship game. Herman may be a pro, but if you're telling him he had him as a RB all the way, then my answer is that Derrian Brown probably never gets recruited to UT. We weren't taking 3. 

[UncleBuck 6455]

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I agree. It wasn't just the state title game. It was also the fact we whiffed on every other RB target. All the word about whittington all season was Slot Slot Slot. We started hearing things differently shockingly the same time he went bonkers in the state championship game. Herman may be a pro, but if you're telling him he had him as a RB all the way, then my answer is that Derrian Brown probably never gets recruited to UT. We weren't taking 3. 

I'm not saying he had him as a RB all the way, I'm just saying we had one RB on board this whole cycle, and swung for the big one without really having a backup plan at the position heading down the stretch. That tells me one of two things: they hella fucked up at recruiting the RB position, or they believed the backup plan was already locked up (And I'm not even saying that excuses them if it is the latter. Just think that could have been part of the thought process).

Edited February 5, 2019 by UncleBuck

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

42 minutes ago, Not a Sock said:

Or Texas signing the #3 class that needed two RB and now tragically has none because Herman spent an enormous amount of effort chasing a white whale and neglected our more realistic options.

Exactly.  This job is too big for Herman.  

[closetojumping 62785]

39 minutes ago, Fud said:

At this point, we should count Whittington as a RB in the class 

 

34 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

That's perfectly fair. But until he goes apeshit in the state title game, he was a WR all the way. We backed into him at RB, and that is lucky on our part, but it doesn't signify any kind of master plan by the staff. 

I'm of the opinion that working your ass off intelligently sometimes leads to falling ass backwards into good fortune. Frankly, SydneyCarton is a walking fucking examples of this. So yeah, Whittington wasn't designated as TB1 in this class, but here we are, and there have been far worse outcomes by lesser recruiting strategists. I don't love the circumstances and I'm now as skeptical of Drayton as anyone, but we're alright here. 

 

30 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Sure, there is always context and  area for improvement. But if you're consistently landing top 5ish classes the bottom line is you're likely recruiting well and your philosophy is working. 

Again, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be staff upgrades. My point was more big picture. I don't think you're going to see a coach change his approach or philosophy to offers when he's landing top 5ish classes. 

Saban is the GOAT and he never stops tinkering and self-scouting. What people are reacting to is that your original post smacks of Mack Brown loyalism and not Nick Saban ambition. The guys responding are right, and we're justified viewing the "hey, everything is good, look at the rankings" sentiment as nothing more than a bone to chew on the day before signing day.

Edited February 5, 2019 by closetojumping

[Machinator 32099]

While we're talking about rankings sometimes being illusory, there was an article from The Athletic reviewing Florida State's highly ranked 2015 class that gave me a strong sense of deja vu in how it all came crashing down on them. I'll post it in the non-Texas thread.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Machinator

[texasstrong12 4668]

1 minute ago, closetojumping said:

Saban is the GOAT and he never stops tinkering and self-scouting. What people are reacting to is that your original post smacks of Mack Brown loyalism and not Nick Saban ambition. The guys responding are right, and we're justified viewing the "hey, everything is good, look at the rankings" sentiment as nothing more than a bone to chew on the day before signing day.

I'm all for tinkering. Which is why I even said I'm all for staff changes and improvement in my initial post. 

But even Saban isn't overhauling his philosophy. Do you think Saban gives a shit when people call out his system of carpet bombing recruits? Nope. He's not going to change either because it works for him. 

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

Just now, texasstrong12 said:

I'm all for tinkering. Which is why I even said I'm all for staff changes and improvement in my initial post. 

But even Saban isn't overhauling his philosophy. Do you think Saban gives a shit when people call out his system of carpet bombing recruits? Nope. He's not going to change either because it works for him. 

There's this kid in Seattle that Saban hasn't even offered yet.  Why is he such a lazy jerk?

[Atticus 3984]

28 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Uh, people want Bru on defense because elite LBs are harder to find than elite WRs, and because most folks seem to profile his ceiling higher at LB in terms of getting to the NFL. We were happy to put him at WR because 1.) It's where he wanted to go and we landed him, but 2.) LJH leaving after having whet everyone's appetite for an ass kicking beast at slot. The natural slots for Herman's offense are Jake Smith/Jordan Whittington types. LJH changed the game. Otherwise we'd all be screaming for how to get Bru on defense. 

Whittington has great use for us and I'm as excited as anyone about the formation opportunities he's going to bring to the table . But in terms of legitimate, straight up carries, he's probably an 8-12 carry a game kid. And that's under optimal circumstances if we don't want to break him, especially in his first year. We need another guy to get 10 carries, and that is IF Ingram is healthy enough to log in 20 or so carries a game, which is still a big If. 

Different body types, but Whittington is definitely thicker than Ingram was coming out of HS. Hell, he might be thicker than him right now. Whittington also has the added bonus of being an early enrollee. I'm sure he won't have a problem taking hits.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Atticus

[irishtexan 11522]

38 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Is is it sub-optimal? Part of the argument for why people wanted Bru on defense is the idea we have a stacked WR class. 

Getting all the talent on the field seems to be the most optimal approach. Assuming Whittington can fill the need at RB. 

It's probably semantics, but I'd argue any time you're putting someone in a different position than how you intend to use him based on need is sub-optimal. But on the other hand, thank fucking god we landed a guy like Whittington because otherwise we would up up shit creek right now. So yes sub-optimal, but also happy to have him and his versatility.

[Scholz 11956]

I'm sure they'll go after another GT kid at RB this spring for depth for 1 year ala T.Watson and then go after 2 next year in that loaded RB class.  Quite sure.

[texasstrong12 4668]

Just now, irishtexan said:

It's probably semantics, but I'd argue any time you're putting someone in a different position than how you intend to use him based on need is sub-optimal. But on the other hand, thank fucking god we landed a guy like Whittington because otherwise we would up up shit creek right now. So yes sub-optimal, but also happy to have him and his versatility.

true but I think that's the value in Whittington and Bru molds. They are versatile and can play different positions. 

Maybe Herman wanted Whittington as a WR but I can bet part of Whittington's appeal was "hey maybe we can use this guy at different positions if we need him". 

[irishtexan 11522]

1 minute ago, Scholz said:

I'm sure they'll go after another GT kid at RB this spring for depth for 1 year ala T.Watson and then go after 2 next year in that loaded RB class.  Quite sure.

I keep seeing people say this as though there is some sort of Tre Watson tree where you can just go and pluck one whenever you want. What if there are no Tre Watsons this year? It seemed as though we were very fortunate to land a guy like Tre last year, and that expecting to be able to replicate that might be unrealistic. 

[Scholz 11956]

Not saying it will work.  Just guessing this is what they'll try to do.

[texifornia 57079]

2 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

I keep seeing people say this as though there is some sort of Tre Watson tree where you can just go and pluck one whenever you want. What if there are no Tre Watsons this year? It seemed as though we were very fortunate to land a guy like Tre last year, and that expecting to be able to replicate that might be unrealistic. 

There's a couple of good options out there, and that's before the spring roster shakeups (Tavien Feaster come on down). It's actually a better year than last year.

Of course, we then have to actually land one of the decent ones.

Edited February 5, 2019 by texifornia

[Hank_Hill 18893]

Feaster would be nice

[closetojumping 62785]

1 minute ago, texifornia said:

There's a couple of good options out there, and that's before the spring roster shakeups (Tavien Feaster come on down). It's actually a better year than last year.

Feaster would have to actively dismiss the premise of pursuing another title in his home state with what he considers his family. I've mentioned him because he has some random ties that would make Texas a fit, but we'd have to make promises and he'd have to have more than passing interest in looking around. Just giving color here.

[South Austin 52568]

3 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Feaster would be nice

Feaster?  I hardly knew her.

[Fud 9552]

The staff has passed on at least one quality RB grad transfer target. Either they feel confident they can find someone better after the post spring depth chart roster exodus across the country, or they feel good about Kirk Johnson and Whittington as potential volume backs next year 

[texasstrong12 4668]

Alcorn State offered Evans. We are in trouble now. 

[South Austin 52568]

Just now, Fud said:

The staff has passed on at least one quality RB grad transfer target. Either they feel confident they can find someone better after the post spring depth chart roster exodus across the country, or they feel good about Kirk Johnson and Whittington as potential volume backs next year 

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but how can anybody on that coaching staff feel good about Kirk Johnson as a potential volume back? 

[closetojumping 62785]

Just now, Fud said:

The staff has passed on at least one quality RB grad transfer target. Either they feel confident they can find someone better after the post spring depth chart roster exodus across the country, or they feel good about Kirk Johnson and Whittington as potential volume backs next year 

Was it the dude out of Oregon? If so, that was related to the belief that he's a chronic underachiever with the attitude to go with it. If not him, then don't be a dickhead and tell us.

[closetojumping 62785]

Just now, South Austin said:

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but how can anybody on that coaching staff feel good about Kirk Johnson as a potential volume back? 

I suggest you watch his Instagram workout footage, sir.

[SydneyCarton 48150]

3 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but how can anybody on that coaching staff feel good about Kirk Johnson as a potential volume back? 

I guarantee you Oscar Giles thinks KJ can handle 20 carries a game and rush for 2k yards. 

[Machinator 32099]

Disrespect KJ at your own peril.

 

[randygilman 643]

Is this our first assistant freakout of the 2020 thread? Awesome, glad to be a part of it.

 

[Machinator 32099]

8 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Alcorn State offered Evans. We are in trouble now. 

Shooters shoot.