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Texas Recruiting Notes 2020

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Vertigo

Vertigo 20267

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7 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

That's mostly true but there are some really big exceptions.  Clemson fielded the #9, #11, #16 and #7 classes with their most recent team.  Not one top 5 class.  Their 2016 championship team had the #16, #9, #9 and #11 classes.  OU hasn't won it all but they've made the CFP 3 times.  From 2011-2016 they didn't have a single top 10 class - much less a top 5 class.  They got a #8 class in 2017 and #9 in 2018; still no top 5 classes.  OU usually has ranked in the 11-20 range.

It's always better to have more talent rather than less.  But the only schools that meet the consistent top 5 criteria are Alabama, Ohio State and Georgia, maybe LSU.  Clemson and Oklahoma have better results than any of the last 3.

The issue for Texas isn't that recruiting classes have been "only" top 10.  The program suffered from poor recruiting on both lines and then overall depletion of talent due to 2 coaching changes.  Herman's 2017 transition class was ranked #25 but it's contributing as much or more to the OL as the #7 ranked 2016 class.

Well, it seems we finally have a coach that can evaluate along the line. Here’s to restocking the cupboards.

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 14969

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That's mostly true but there are some really big exceptions.  Clemson fielded the #9, #11, #16 and #7 classes with their most recent team.  Not one top 5 class.  Their 2016 championship team had the #16, #9, #9 and #11 classes.  OU hasn't won it all but they've made the CFP 3 times.  From 2011-2016 they didn't have a single top 10 class - much less a top 5 class.  They got a #8 class in 2017 and #9 in 2018; still no top 5 classes.  OU usually has ranked in the 11-20 range.
It's always better to have more talent rather than less.  But the only schools that meet the consistent top 5 criteria are Alabama, Ohio State and Georgia, maybe LSU.  Clemson and Oklahoma have better results than any of the last 3.
The issue for Texas isn't that recruiting classes have been "only" top 10.  The program suffered from poor recruiting on both lines and then overall depletion of talent due to 2 coaching changes.  Herman's 2017 transition class was ranked #25 but it's contributing as much or more to the OL as the #7 ranked 2016 class.

And if you look at OSU recruiting rankings when Tressel was there they often were outside the top 10. There are good and bad 4 star and 3 star recruits. The schools that scout better do better.
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Butch Had Not

Butch Had Not 2940

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8 minutes ago, Atticus said:

And you somehow believe that a loss of employment is the only thing keeping people's mouths shut?

If you are inferring violence that's always a possibility but whistleblowers have to assume risks inherent to their cause. 

But the point stands,  it takes one connected individual with nothing to lose a la David stanley or some 995 schmuck and a media outlet or reporter with some teeth to expose what we know is going on and hopefully the power of social media can jumpstart the real media similar to rapelor and zach Smith. 

 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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11 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:


And if you look at OSU recruiting rankings when Tressel was there they often were outside the top 10. There are good and bad 4 star and 3 star recruits. The schools that scout better do better.

I’d look more at average per recruit rankings.  

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sushihorn

sushihorn 3233

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14 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:


And if you look at OSU recruiting rankings when Tressel was there they often were outside the top 10. There are good and bad 4 star and 3 star recruits. The schools that scout better do better.

Good point.  I was only looking at the CFP era.  Tressel also fits the mold of what Dabo has done at Clemson.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 18998

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24 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

That's mostly true but there are some really big exceptions.  Clemson fielded the #9, #11, #16 and #7 classes with their most recent team.  Not one top 5 class.  Their 2016 championship team had the #16, #9, #9 and #11 classes.  OU hasn't won it all but they've made the CFP 3 times.  From 2011-2016 they didn't have a single top 10 class - much less a top 5 class.  They got a #8 class in 2017 and #9 in 2018; still no top 5 classes.  OU usually has ranked in the 11-20 range.

It's always better to have more talent rather than less.  But the only schools that meet the consistent top 5 criteria are Alabama, Ohio State and Georgia, maybe LSU.  Clemson and Oklahoma have better results than any of the last 3.

The issue for Texas isn't that recruiting classes have been "only" top 10.  The program suffered from poor recruiting on both lines and then overall depletion of talent due to 2 coaching changes.  Herman's 2017 transition class was ranked #25 but it's contributing as much or more to the OL as the #7 ranked 2016 class.

 

Clemson takes small classes, so they’re lower in overall rankings, but two of those classes were top 5 in avg per recruit, so they still had to get top 5 type talent to win. 

Obviously scheme consistency and development matter a ton, but if you want to look at which teams are going to consistently make the playoffs, it will be the teams most consistently landing top 5 classes/top 5 avgs per recruit. 

OU did a great job enhancing their talent through QB transfers (not counted in the recruiting class rankings) and a brilliant offensive scheme, but they flat out didn’t have the talent on defense to win a title despite having three years of Heisman QBs. OU not Landing top 5 classes proved the point that they needed to, not the other way around. 

The difference between the #10 class and the top 3-5 classes is massive. It can be made up for through great scheme/development, but it makes the margin for error razor thin. There’s just no reason the margin for error needs to be cut that small at a program like Texas. 

 

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VaHorn

VaHorn 105

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At this point no one knows how Ostarine got into the Clemson players’ systems.  So I am withholding judgment until they complete their internal investigation. There has been an unavoidable delay since the outside advisers are still wrapping up their search for the real killer. 

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Stampeder

Stampeder 92

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6 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

 

Clemson takes small classes, so they’re lower in overall rankings, but two of those classes were top 5 in avg per recruit, so they still had to get top 5 type talent to win. 

Obviously scheme consistency and development matter a ton, but if you want to look at which teams are going to consistently make the playoffs, it will be the teams most consistently landing top 5 classes/top 5 avgs per recruit. 

OU did a great job enhancing their talent through QB transfers (not counted in the recruiting class rankings) and a brilliant offensive scheme, but they flat out didn’t have the talent on defense to win a title despite having three years of Heisman QBs. OU not Landing top 5 classes proved the point that they needed to, not the other way around. 

The difference between the #10 class and the top 3-5 classes is massive. It can be made up for through great scheme/development, but it makes the margin for error razor thin. There’s just no reason the margin for error needs to be cut that small at a program like Texas. 

 

Solid points.  I'd just offer that expectations are at times unrealistic given the circumstances.  We didn't hire a coach with a national rep (Saban / Jimbo) and immediately credibility.  We also don't have recent success/stability on our side (i.e. Riley / Day).  Not defending all things Herman.  He has his flaws and there's an argument to be made we could've capitalized more on various things.  But, given the circumstances I think landing Top 5-10 classes at this point is doing quite well.  Give it another couple years of 10 win seasons, B12 championship games/titles, etc. and cruising in the Top 5 in recruiting rankings should become automatic.

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Magus Ossis

Magus Ossis 2784

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Just now, VaHorn said:

At this point no one knows how Ostarine got into the Clemson players’ systems.  So I am withholding judgment until they complete their internal investigation. There has been an unavoidable delay since the outside advisers are still wrapping up their search for the real killer. 

It was, completely without the knowledge of the trainers, slipped into the players' normal HGH and DHT supplements.

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satyanash

satyanash 14281

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2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Or would any program have basically been handled in the same way because sports media doesn’t want to dig very deeply on the steroid issue in football, given the damage the coverage did, in some eyes, the integrity of MLB?

Compare cycling and tennis.

Cycling famously cracked down on the dopers, including the icon of the sport Lance Armstrong. The USADA invalidated all of the Tour de France titles he won and campaigned to destroy his reputation. Now? No one cares about cycling any more. Interest has completely dropped off the map.

Tennis, on the other hand, is known for their lax anti-doping regimen. Players like Serena, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, etc. without a doubt use PEDs to recover from injuries and prolong their careers. And the sport is more popular than ever because of them. The ATP would never crack down and risk killing the golden goose and falling into irrelevancy like cycling. They recognize that they need the top players to stay in the limelight.

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texifornia

texifornia 56526

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Just now, satyanash said:

Compare cycling and tennis.

Cycling famously cracked down on the dopers, including the icon of the sport Lance Armstrong. The USADA invalidated all of the Tour de France titles he won and campaigned to destroy his reputation. Now? No one cares about cycling any more. Interest has completely dropped off the map.

Tennis, on the other hand, is known for their lax anti-doping regimen. Players like Serena, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, etc. without a doubt use PEDs to recover from injuries and prolong their careers. And the sport is more popular than ever because of them. The ATP would never crack down and risk killing the golden goose and falling into irrelevancy like cycling. They recognize that they need the top players to stay in the limelight.

To be fair, no one gave a shit before Lance either. Cycling is just really boring without a once-in-a-lifetime story around it.

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 47884

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7 minutes ago, texifornia said:

To be fair, no one gave a shit before Lance either. Cycling is just really boring without a once-in-a-lifetime story around it.

How dare you dismiss Greg LeMond, aka LaMonster, so casually. You anti-cyclist son of a bitch. The man is a legend and a beacon or morality. 

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deech

deech 2251

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2 hours ago, Butch Had Not said:

One day I hope a 995 that is sick of the job,  tired of the dirty underbelly, and gainfully employed outside of the recruiting industry to not care about burning bridges just says "fuck it" and spills his guts over the cheating out there. Instead we get veiled shots at other schools cheating without planting their flag on anything. 

Lol.  It's their standard excuse for why a team missed out on a recruit they said was leaning one way just a day earlier.  They don't know shit. 

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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6021

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55 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Compare cycling and tennis.

Cycling famously cracked down on the dopers, including the icon of the sport Lance Armstrong. The USADA invalidated all of the Tour de France titles he won and campaigned to destroy his reputation. Now? No one cares about cycling any more. Interest has completely dropped off the map.

Tennis, on the other hand, is known for their lax anti-doping regimen. Players like Serena, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, etc. without a doubt use PEDs to recover from injuries and prolong their careers. And the sport is more popular than ever because of them. The ATP would never crack down and risk killing the golden goose and falling into irrelevancy like cycling. They recognize that they need the top players to stay in the limelight.

And who is cycling's Maria Sharapova?

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 12898

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1 hour ago, satyanash said:

Compare cycling and tennis.

Cycling famously cracked down on the dopers, including the icon of the sport Lance Armstrong. The USADA invalidated all of the Tour de France titles he won and campaigned to destroy his reputation. Now? No one cares about cycling any more. Interest has completely dropped off the map.

Tennis, on the other hand, is known for their lax anti-doping regimen. Players like Serena, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, etc. without a doubt use PEDs to recover from injuries and prolong their careers. And the sport is more popular than ever because of them. The ATP would never crack down and risk killing the golden goose and falling into irrelevancy like cycling. They recognize that they need the top players to stay in the limelight.

Cycling didn't crack down on the dopers they are still the getting caught and nothing happens.  Lance got caught and it destroyed the carefully crafted image he had.  No one in America gave a shit about cycling before Lance and no one has given a shit since

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Beigebandit

Beigebandit 40

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1 hour ago, satyanash said:

Compare cycling and tennis.

Cycling famously cracked down on the dopers, including the icon of the sport Lance Armstrong. The USADA invalidated all of the Tour de France titles he won and campaigned to destroy his reputation. Now? No one cares about cycling any more. Interest has completely dropped off the map.

Tennis, on the other hand, is known for their lax anti-doping regimen. Players like Serena, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, etc. without a doubt use PEDs to recover from injuries and prolong their careers. And the sport is more popular than ever because of them. The ATP would never crack down and risk killing the golden goose and falling into irrelevancy like cycling. They recognize that they need the top players to stay in the limelight.

Tennis uses USADA to do their testing and it has been written about in many articles and on TV numerous times that’s Serena is actually tested at least 3x more than any other athlete in Tennis and she has never failed a test. 

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satyanash

satyanash 14281

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18 minutes ago, Beigebandit said:

Tennis uses USADA to do their testing and it has been written about in many articles and on TV numerous times that’s Serena is actually tested at least 3x more than any other athlete in Tennis and she has never failed a test. 

That's cute.

WADA-accredited testing labs offer a menu of tests and protocols to sports like tennis that leaders can select to root out doping. Tennis' anti-doping protocol for years relied on the cheapest, most basic screening offered by WADA labs. For about $300 per sample, the standard lab analysis is largely capable of detecting only anabolic steroids, stimulants and street drugs. It is almost incapable of detecting cutting-edge substances, instances of micro-dosing or the latest rage: designer peptides that trigger the body's natural release of testosterone and growth hormone.

Tennis has built its clean image largely on in-competition drug testing -- seen throughout the anti-doping community as futile and capable of catching only unsophisticated dopers, because players know when and where testing will occur. According to annual WADA doping reports covering 2010 to '14 (the latest reports available) in-competition testing was tennis' method of choice for more than 80 percent of samples analyzed by tennis -- significantly higher than in other summer Olympic sports.

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futureman

futureman 22415

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53 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Cycling didn't crack down on the dopers they are still the getting caught and nothing happens.  Lance got caught and it destroyed the carefully crafted image he had.  No one in America gave a shit about cycling before Lance and no one has given a shit since

carefully crafted image?  he’s always been thought of as a dick.  seems all he cared about was winning.

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sushihorn

sushihorn 3233

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2 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

Clemson takes small classes, so they’re lower in overall rankings, but two of those classes were top 5 in avg per recruit, so they still had to get top 5 type talent to win. 

Obviously scheme consistency and development matter a ton, but if you want to look at which teams are going to consistently make the playoffs, it will be the teams most consistently landing top 5 classes/top 5 avgs per recruit. 

OU did a great job enhancing their talent through QB transfers (not counted in the recruiting class rankings) and a brilliant offensive scheme, but they flat out didn’t have the talent on defense to win a title despite having three years of Heisman QBs. OU not Landing top 5 classes proved the point that they needed to, not the other way around. 

The difference between the #10 class and the top 3-5 classes is massive. It can be made up for through great scheme/development, but it makes the margin for error razor thin. There’s just no reason the margin for error needs to be cut that small at a program like Texas.

Clemson moves up somewhat if you re-rank by avg instead of total class ranking.  But they are still not anything like consistently top 5.  Clemson's 2013 recruiting class would not move at all if ranked by average - still at #15.  Their 2014 recruits would be #15 instead of #16.   2015 class becomes #12 instead of #9.  2016 goes from #11 to #9.  2017   2017 is the big mover from #16 to #5.  2018 goes from #7 to #4.  

By this criteria, they won the 2016 NC with the #15, #15, #12 and #9 classes.  That's an average well outside of the top 10 again - much less the top 5.  Clearly some combination of evaluation, development, coaching and scheme is more than sufficient for the #13 talent pool based on average to beat the clear and overwhelming #1.  You have a better case for 2018.  Average rating would be #8 (12, 11, 5 and 4) so even there we are talking top 10, not top 5 and the talent was heavily skewed to the younger players.  That actually looks a lot like the talent situation in Austin now, with a bigger gap to make up with the upperclassmen.

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closetojumping

closetojumping 62246

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3 hours ago, sushihorn said:

That's mostly true but there are some really big exceptions.  Clemson fielded the #9, #11, #16 and #7 classes with their most recent team.  Not one top 5 class.  Their 2016 championship team had the #16, #9, #9 and #11 classes.  OU hasn't won it all but they've made the CFP 3 times.  From 2011-2016 they didn't have a single top 10 class - much less a top 5 class.  They got a #8 class in 2017 and #9 in 2018; still no top 5 classes.  OU usually has ranked in the 11-20 range.

It's always better to have more talent rather than less.  But the only schools that meet the consistent top 5 criteria are Alabama, Ohio State and Georgia, maybe LSU.  Clemson and Oklahoma have better results than any of the last 3.

The issue for Texas isn't that recruiting classes have been "only" top 10.  The program suffered from poor recruiting on both lines and then overall depletion of talent due to 2 coaching changes.  Herman's 2017 transition class was ranked #25 but it's contributing as much or more to the OL as the #7 ranked 2016 class.

You’re a smart guy and a good poster, but this post is unmarinated tripe. It looks and smells bad, but it undoubtedly tastes worse. 

I already argued that Clemson’s practices aren’t replicable. And, they’re not. They’re also not Texas. They’re doing less with more and the Swinney process works. For them. 

As shit related to OU, how in the fuck are you making your post, ignoring the transfer impact of the two key players, as well as tuning out JUCO guys, and expecting us to take your viewpoint seriously. 

What the fuck is wrong with you, here?

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Newy25

Newy25 7638

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1 hour ago, Beigebandit said:

Tennis uses USADA to do their testing and it has been written about in many articles and on TV numerous times that’s Serena is actually tested at least 3x more than any other athlete in Tennis and she has never failed a test. 

Except she is not tested for being a woman. That Adam’s apple is bigger than mine and it’s the doping you think that gives her an advantage? 

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Sabalo

Sabalo 994

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2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

 

You’re a smart guy and a good poster, but this post is unmarinated tripe. It looks and smells bad, but it undoubtedly tastes worse. 

I already argued that Clemson’s practices aren’t replicable. And, they’re not. They’re also not Texas. They’re doing less with more and the Swinney process works. For them. 

As shit related to OU, how in the fuck are you making your post, ignoring the transfer impact of the two key players, as well as tuning out JUCO guys, and expecting us to take your viewpoint seriously. 

What the fuck is wrong with you, here?

Damn, who peed in your muesli?

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 14969

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You’re a smart guy and a good poster, but this post is unmarinated tripe. It looks and smells bad, but it undoubtedly tastes worse. 
I already argued that Clemson’s practices aren’t replicable. And, they’re not. They’re also not Texas. They’re doing less with more and the Swinney process works. For them. 
As shit related to OU, how in the fuck are you making your post, ignoring the transfer impact of the two key players, as well as tuning out JUCO guys, and expecting us to take your viewpoint seriously. 
What the fuck is wrong with you, here?


Sushi horn is one of the best posters on this board and your bizarre attack on his post, which was fine, says more about you than him. Lighten up Francis.
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texifornia

texifornia 56526

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Sabalo said:

Damn, who peed in your muesli?

Healthy cereal reminds ctj of his Dickensian upbringing of scrounging wild grasses and nuts for sustenance and therefore he only eats cereal that's at least 1/3 pure refined sugar for breakfast. 

Peed in his Froot Loops or Capn Crunch is probably more accurate. 

Edited by texifornia
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Sabalo

Sabalo 994

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7 minutes ago, texifornia said:

Healthy cereal reminds ctj of his Dickensian upbringing of scrounging wild grasses and nuts for sustenance and therefore he only eats cereal that's at least 1/3 pure refined sugar for breakfast. 

Peed in his Froot Loops or Capn Crunch is probably more accurate. 

Since he's on an European vacation I assumed Muesli

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