Toddler Falls Out of Cruise Ship Window

[El Diablo 4232]

5 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

I’ve been on one cruise in my life. I have no desire to go on another unless it’s a gay one. 

Aren't they all gay?

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

1 minute ago, El Diablo said:

Aren't they all gay?

If you're brave enough.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

So you believe all neglegent behavior resulting in death should be given a pass as an accident.

Wow!

That's a free pass for, "I didnt know the gun was loaded" or "I didn't think I was drunk" or "We didn't know these bombs were live" or "We didn't know the chemicals would kill them".

Wow. Seriously, what a fucking horrible take.

What would you do ? Put the grandfather in jail for what was apparently a completely regrettable accident ?  What purpose would that serve ?  I guess it would be a lesson to all the folks who dangle babies over railings.  You examples are broad, and not of the same category as this issue IMO.  

[SubliminalHorn 6811]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

this thread is about to go down a rabbit hole...

It’ll go down a hole, alright

[PRONG HORN 3165]

On 7/10/2019 at 9:00 AM, MrBig said:

Initial reports said the grandfather lost his grip while holding the baby outside of the window. Then the family hired an attorney who said he placed the baby on a railing inside the ship to bang on the glass. 

 

On 7/10/2019 at 9:08 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

Yup. Careless grandpa dropped his granddaughter to her death. Now they're trying to cover for him. 

 

18 hours ago, MrBig said:

The family got a powerful cruise ship chasing lawyer who knows how to spin this in the family’s favor.

 

 

 

The first reports of this to hit the media came from the Puerto Rican Police.  They're basically owned by the cruise company.  

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by PRONG HORN

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

21 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Tell me where you want to draw the line between an "accident" and behavior that while never with any intent, ends in death.

Getting behind the wheel while drunk and running into someone on accident and killing them?

- That is basically what you are defending in this specific circumstance BTW. Grandpa was drunk and didn't mean to drop the child. 

Forgetting to feed your child?

Forgetting to feed your disabled parent or sibling?

Forgetting to feed a dog?

Not realizing a gun was loaded while you were cleaning it and your child was in the room?

Not being aware that driving 60 in a school zone is bad and not seeing a child?

I could go on all day with neglect or choices made that never intended any harm, and end in death.

So tell me where your line is and why drunk grandpa gets a pass and Chad driving home from the bar doesn't.

I don't know, if he was drink or not and that would change things a bit, but there is certainly a line, and hopefully smarter people than I can draw it.  

Edited July 11, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[crash_davis 23117]

16 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Tell me where you want to draw the line between an "accident" and behavior that while never with any intent, ends in death.

Getting behind the wheel while drunk and running into someone on accident and killing them?

- That is basically what you are defending in this specific circumstance BTW. Grandpa was drunk and didn't mean to drop the child. 

Forgetting to feed your child?

Forgetting to feed your disabled parent or sibling?

Forgetting to feed a dog?

Not realizing a gun was loaded while you were cleaning it and your child was in the room?

Not being aware that driving 60 in a school zone is bad and not seeing a child?

I could go on all day with neglect or choices made that never intended any harm, and end in death.

So tell me where your line is and why drunk grandpa gets a pass and Chad driving home from the bar doesn't.

and you know the gramps was drunk because?  there are two very different versions of the story.

if gramps was drunk, then throw the book at him.  but if the story about the window/no window is true, then you still want to throw the book at gramps because by god, an accident happened, the nearest adult must pay?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, BurntEyes said:

There is a line, it has been drawn. It is drawn by our criminal justice system and the courts.

You and crash are arguing about redrawing that line.

No I'm not. Whatever the local DA does is their right set out by the criminal code. They have the right to pursue it vigorously or allow it to pass based on the evidence they find.  Then it should be in the hands of a jury if they decide to prosecute.

[crash_davis 23117]

1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

Lulz, you're siding with the lawyers spin on what happened.

I'm siding on holding a child out a window is bad, drunk or sober.

The courts and a jury get to decide on what happens to Grandpa, not me.

 

and you are siding with a cruise ship industry who have repeated ignored due process and protected their self interest at all costs.  how many rapes and deaths have been un-resolved or un-punished on cruise ships because they were unhelpful as fuck?  buy yea, the family is automatically the liar here.

 

[crash_davis 23117]

Just now, BurntEyes said:

Lulz what?

That has nothing to do with what we were talking about. I fucking hate cruise ships, moose out front should have told you. Nice strawman though.

You keeping being you crash. 

We are done here.

you're the dipshit blindly laying blame at the gramps siding with a corrupt as shit industry.  i have no idea what happened, but i know one side is probably not to be trusted.  i will go on being me practicing common sense while you defend assholes and take binary positions on shit that is way more complicated than yes or no.

[Sbbruin 21900]

I am pretty sure they were just chumming the water, getting ready for Shark Week.
https://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/shark-week/

[HRSchenker 2275]

Cruises are a blast but why the hell would you bring an 18 month old with you? Stupid parents.

[Armybrat 40940]

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

21 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Then actually, we are in agreement.

What we're in agreement about is that I will say the justice system is going to do what it does. What I believe is there are times when pursing a case against someone is not going to serve justice. This could be one of those times, but I also know people who leave kids in cars have served time when it was clearly accidental. 

So our agreement is the letter of the law, not the actual prosecution of the law.

 

[Blotto 23585]

First rate surly slap fight. I commend you all for your efforts. If I could buy each of you ladies an apple-tini, I would.

 

[TornACL 7732]

The "Whyyyy prosecute the parents" argument is as dumb as the people wanting grandpa put immediately in jail.

Nothing is decided yet. Hell, nothing is known yet. Sometimes an accident is an accident and prosecution would be an unnecessary and cruel step to a grieving family member. Sometimes an accident is not an accident and is an act of such negligence that the law needs to step in. There's a reason, for example, we have a law in the Texas Penal Code specifically related to child neglect. You can't just decide now that it's mean to charge the caregiver. That's exactly what gets determined during this stage of the process. The determination to file charges or not will be based on facts and not based on what's fair to someone's psyche. Which is the way it should be.

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

17 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

But you admitted up thread on this very page you're not smart enough to figure out where that line makes sense.

So.. again, we agree.

 Smart enough to see that you're being a dick

Edited July 11, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[mulletpelini 5216]

dp

Edited July 12, 2019 by mulletpelini
dp

[mulletpelini 5216]

7 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

I'm of the Bill Burr thought when it comes to cruises and reducing our population.

We really need to start scuttling cruise ships and then replace destroyed ships with an exact copy. 

Offer free trips via Facebook and other social media. One time for Trump supporters, next time from Trump haters.

Clear our CR problem right up and make this board and the world a much better place.

Edit - Florida, Ohio and Arkansas residents get free flights/transport to the port city.

 

6 hours ago, El Diablo said:

Aren't they all gay?

Maybe gramps just didn't like the little whippersnapper

[po elvis 2083]

https://www.cruisecritic.com/photos/ships/freedom-of-the-seas-358/h2o-zone-123474/h2o-zone--v7421114/

If you click on this you can see a picture of the are where the kid was dropped out the window. I am assuming it was the wall of windows where you can see all the windows on the bottom row are closed , but some windows on the second row are open. For a kid to fall out the windows they would have to be raised by an adult. I don't think the ship should be liable. here re plenty of places on a ship you can drop a kid or  jump off if you want to. I don't believe the grandpa should be liable unless he carelessly held the kid out the window. If he just held the kid up to the window to look out, it is just an unfortunate tragedy.

[po elvis 2083]

Btw, I think they probably leave windows open up there for the breeze and airflow. It gets hot.

[TeddyBearStallion 73]

What's the best way to see naked boobs on a cruise?  Asking for a friend...

[Guest]

On 7/11/2019 at 12:52 PM, BearSchlong said:

Since marrying a CPS caseworker my belief in humanity was shattered.  So many shitty parents out there.  That poor little girl.  Grandpa needs other consequences other than guilt.

nm.

Edited July 14, 2019 by slorch

[Nice Guy Eddie 13529]

On 7/11/2019 at 2:11 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

What would you do ? Put the grandfather in jail for what was apparently a completely regrettable accident ?  What purpose would that serve ?  I guess it would be a lesson to all the folks who dangle babies over railings.  You examples are broad, and not of the same category as this issue IMO.  

When a child dies of negligence or an unnecessary accident, I first land on the idea that someone needs to be punished.  The purpose is that we punish people who kill others.  Will it make the tragedy worse for the family? Probably but life isn’t fair for those that let this happen. 

And I understand the idea that the grandfather might be punishing himself more than a jail sentence but so what. I think remorse is fine for determining sentencing or parole but not guilt.

however I’m open to hearing the details of the story before landing on a final opinion.

[TwiceHorn 31598]

Gotdamn.  This is the second recent thread on here where not everyone is demanding the death penalty for a tragic, senseless, but ultimately unintended death.

And there's discussion of the nuances of punishment and culpability.

What in the sam hill is going on here?

[retread 2951]

On 7/12/2019 at 2:14 AM, po elvis said:

Btw, I think they probably leave windows open up there for the breeze and airflow. It gets hot.

Yeah, that video that shows people sitting in lawn chairs in that hallway just looks miserable.

[Nolacycling 893]

On 7/11/2019 at 3:07 PM, crash_davis said:

and you know the gramps was drunk because?  there are two very different versions of the story.

if gramps was drunk, then throw the book at him.  but if the story about the window/no window is true, then you still want to throw the book at gramps because by god, an accident happened, the nearest adult must pay?

r e c i d i v i s t

[Nueces River Rat 5558]

31 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Gotdamn.  This is the second recent thread on here where not everyone is demanding the death penalty for a tragic, senseless, but ultimately unintended death.

And there's discussion of the nuances of punishment and culpability.

What in the sam hill is going on here?

That was reserved for the ice cream licker thread.  More along the lines of Game of Thornes type of death too.   

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

34 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Gotdamn.  This is the second recent thread on here where not everyone is demanding the death penalty for a tragic, senseless, but ultimately unintended death.

And there's discussion of the nuances of punishment and culpability.

What in the sam hill is going on here?

I know right ?  What happened to the usual, expected, gratuitous insanity ?

[WhatTheBuck 28813]

39 minutes ago, Nolacycling said:

r e c i d i v i s t

That's one bonehead name. 

[Homercles 10206]

I’m still paranoid about accidentally tossing my kiddos over the railing from the second story when I’m carrying them upstairs. They’re 2 and 5. That situation at the cruise ship is awful, why hold a baby up there?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Homercles said:

I’m still paranoid about accidentally tossing my kiddos over the railing from the second story when I’m carrying them upstairs. They’re 2 and 5. That situation at the cruise ship is awful, why hold a baby up there?

Brah, ya gotta let the little darlins' skin their knees on their own...

[Homercles 10206]

Brah, ya gotta let the little darlins' skin their knees on their own...

 

Then you can come over and coax my 2yo girl upstairs right before bedtime.

[MrBig 5447]

2 hours ago, Homercles said:

I’m still paranoid about accidentally tossing my kiddos over the railing from the second story when I’m carrying them upstairs. They’re 2 and 5. That situation at the cruise ship is awful, why hold a baby up there?

Because she wanted to bang on the glass like she does at her brother’s hockey games. And they even had a picture of her doing so ready to go when the lawyer was speaking to the media. 

[woohorn 1131]

Yeah, that is a pretty specific EXPLANATION that probably works to help assuage Gramps' image in the media, but bizarre to immediately go to that as an EXCUSE with your lawyer vs Carnival.

 

 

[RDCanecutter 26479]

2 hours ago, Homercles said:

 

Then you can come over and coax my 2yo girl upstairs right before bedtime.

When I show up downstairs in the clown suit, they'll fly up those stairs with uncommon speed.

[MrBig 5447]

18 minutes ago, woohorn said:

Yeah, that is a pretty specific EXPLANATION that probably works to help assuage Gramps' image in the media, but bizarre to immediately go to that as an EXCUSE with your lawyer vs Carnival.

 

 

This plus the lawyer saying “it’s not like the Michael Jackson case” makes me think it was just like the Michael Jackson case. 

[RDCanecutter 26479]

13 hours ago, TeddyBearStallion said:

What's the best way to see naked boobs on a cruise?  Asking for a friend...

From what I hear, you wanna get a fake Ukrainian passport and apply to work as crew at sub-minimum wage. During your off-hour, you and all the foreigners have a massive sex-fest that makes the Irish steerage party in "Titanic" look like a staged scene from a Hollywood movie.

[woohorn 1131]

What's the best way to see naked boobs on a cruise?  Asking for a friend...

Think most have an "Adult only" upper sun deck away from kids.

 

OR just room with ur mom.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

59 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

When I show up downstairs in the clown suit, they'll fly up those stairs with uncommon speed.

So will I

[NeverMarryAStripper 21978]

So instead of getting an abortion, now you can just have the baby, toss it out a cruise ship window,  and then collect a few million

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

11 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

So instead of getting an abortion, now you can just have the baby, toss it out a cruise ship window,  and then collect a few million

I always prefer to sell them on the black market. Big bucks in white babies....

[RomaVicta 30033]

6 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

That was reserved for the ice cream licker thread.  More along the lines of Game of Thornes type of death too.   

That woman should die screaming. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26581]

Coincidentally I was at the Condado Vanderbilt in San Juan all week last week and my wife noticed out our window that ship seemed to have been in dock and awfully long time. I just told her about this and I sort of wish I hadn’t. This hit close to home.

Awful.

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

Regardless of the explanation letting a kid beat on real glass (not hockey plexiglass) seems kinda dumb.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Regardless of the explanation letting a kid beat on real glass (not hockey plexiglass) seems kinda dumb.  

Just how much damage can a 2 year old do to a marine grade glass panel ?  Now if they start being annoying to folks around then yeah it's not cool. 

This whole thing seems a little like a concocted lie right now.  Somebody has a cell phone video I'll bet.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Just how much damage can a 2 year old do to a marine grade glass panel ?  Now if they start being annoying to folks around then yeah it's not cool. 

This whole thing seems a little like a concocted lie right now.  Somebody has a cell phone video I'll bet.

so you believe someone was actually watching the kid?

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

6 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Just how much damage can a 2 year old do to a marine grade glass panel ?  Now if they start being annoying to folks around then yeah it's not cool. 

This whole thing seems a little like a concocted lie right now.  Somebody has a cell phone video I'll bet.

Well anyway I’m not letting my kid bang against a window 11 stories up.  Hell on the ground floor either for that matter.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, slorch said:

so you believe someone was actually watching the kid?

I have no idea what happened right now. The original report made it seem like gramps pulled a Michael Jackson. Now it sounds like the kid was on a platform of some kind, and it toppled thru an open window.  In no way do I think the cruise line is responsible (right now).   Ships are dangerous places by their very nature.

Toddlers are the direct responsibility of the parents/grand parents/ guardians.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Well anyway I’m not letting my kid bang against a window 11 stories up.  Hell on the ground floor either for that matter.  

Nor would I or my wife.