Toddler Falls Out of Cruise Ship Window

[MrBig 5424]

25 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You're preaching to the choir.  My younger brother was in Iowa for a wrestling camp back in HS. His buds who I knew pretty well were out partying one night, and had a very bad wreck.

2 of his buds were ejected from the car, and both died that night. The guys with seat belts on had injuries, but all lived, and stayed inside the car.  My brother would have been in that car more than likely, and not wearing a seat belt.

He, and I have both worn seatbelts since that day, and that includes cabs, Ubers, vans on the way to vacation spots from airports, any vehicle with a seat belt, and I'm wearing it.

Same here. I was so traumatized by the accident, I wear my seatbelt even when I’m just moving my car out of the driveway to park in front of my house.

My personal experience is surely clouding my judgement on this cruise ship accident, but everything about this incident screams bullshit to me.

And this was before I saw the pictures of the deck and before they hired that cruise ship chasing lawyer. Babies just don’t fall out of windows that aren’t open on the ground. This isn’t an Eric Clapton type of freak accident.

I still think Royal Caribbean is going to pay this family a shitload of money no matter what. “I thought there was glass” is the same bullshit as saying “I didn’t mean to drive drunk and kill those people.” You still did it out of negligence you stupid fucking asshole.

[CooterBrown 18022]

We used to sit on top of the toolbox in the back of the truck while grandpa barreled down the highway at 55. Paw paws don’t give a fuck.

[GringoSalado 1651]

We used to sit on top of the 100 gal. propane tank

 

 

 

(In the snow. Uphill. Both ways.).

[KaiserSoze 998]

I have a lot more than 2 speeding tickets, but that doesn’t mean I threw a kid out of a window

That we know of

[Lhorn 4930]

7 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

As you get older you'll start to realize just how easy it is for accidents to happen.  

True but that doesn't make it the cruise line's fault.  I can see a jury awarding the family money however.  Cruise line can pony up some cash to help a distraught grandpa pretend killing his granddaughter was the fault of a big, negligent money grubbing corporation.

Looking at those pictures, I'm gonna guess the family is alleging that there is no way for a competent person standing in front of one of those open windows to know if there is glass there or not?  It seems implausible that you wouldn't know.  From the tint of the glass to the wind blasting you in the face, any person with a functioning brain knows the window is open.  

I think it really comes down to grandpa being negligent.  He got too close to give baby a nice view and he lost his grip.  

It's tragic and my heart goes out to the little one and her family, but trying to cast blame on someone else and collect money is pretty shitty.

 

 

[MrBig 5424]

31 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

True but that doesn't make it the cruise line's fault.  I can see a jury awarding the family money however.  Cruise line can pony up some cash to help a distraught grandpa pretend killing his granddaughter was the fault of a big, negligent money grubbing corporation.

Looking at those pictures, I'm gonna guess the family is alleging that there is no way for a competent person standing in front of one of those open windows to know if there is glass there or not?  It seems implausible that you wouldn't know.  From the tint of the glass to the wind blasting you in the face, any person with a functioning brain knows the window is open.  

I think it really comes down to grandpa being negligent.  He got too close to give baby a nice view and he lost his grip.  

It's tragic and my heart goes out to the little one and her family, but trying to cast blame on someone else and collect money is pretty shitty.

 

 

All of this is pretty spot on. What makes me think it’s a money grab is that the lawyer keeps saying it was in a children’s play area.

I understand there are wading pools for the kids to splash around closer to the center of the ship, but they are framing this like there is a kiddie play area right up against the glass, making the cruise line responsible. Look at the photos. It’s not like that. The windows are also tinted.

And they kept saying the grandfather had to be sedated after the accident. So even if he wasn’t a drinker, he could have been on something prior. But because he was sedated, anything that showed up on blood tests would be attributed to the sedative administered post-accident.

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

On July 15, 2019 at 6:58 PM, MrBig said:

Extended family shouldn’t extend babies out of a window. 

Just a little chlorine in the gene pool. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

Sad story. I don’t see how a reasonable person would think the window was closed or that it was safe to put a child up there. 

Whats sad is that the company lawyers are probably now thinking of sealing windows to prevent future risk. Go on a cruise and watch everything thru glass.

[Asithappens 974]

12 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I have a lot more than 2 speeding tickets, but that doesn’t mean I threw a kid out of a window

But was it "excessive" speeding?

Don't know what qualifies as excessive, but it's probably more than just 6 over in a 55 zone. 

[El Diablo 4232]

I grew up in the era of no seatbelts. Moved back to Texas in '93 and got hit shortly after that with the click-it-or-ticket campaign. I became a convert and it's become second nature now. No excuse for baby dangling.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

It's impossible to child-proof a ship especially if the adult in charge is incapable of determining if a shaded window is open or closed. My guess is that the family has to convince themselves that gramps isn't at fault or they rip the family apart. The family is most likely split apart anyway.

I don't believe I could ever face a parent if I accidentally killed their child. I would assume they wouldn't want to see me either.

 

[Vito Andolini 9127]

I’ve read multiple accounts of the family claiming the little girl loved banging on the glass at hockey games, and there’s even a photo of her doing that. I suspect Gramps held her up to the window to get a good look, probably perpendicular to the floor and not outside the imaginary plane, and the child lunged at the window like she often did at the hockey games. But there was nothing to stop her, and he couldn’t hold on.

I’m sympathetic to the family and grandfather, but as I try to put myself in his shoes, I have to consider the 11 stories up element... geez, that’s awfully risky. And if the windows on Level 11 have that blue tint, it’s going to be a tough sell. 

[TwiceHorn 31516]

Like I keep saying, Americans love to "work backward" from a horrible and tragic incident to assess blame.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, Vito Andolini said:

I’ve read multiple accounts of the family claiming the little girl loved banging on the glass at hockey games, and there’s even a photo of her doing that. I suspect Gramps held her up to the window to get a good look, probably perpendicular to the floor and not outside the imaginary plane, and the child lunged at the window like she often did at the hockey games. But there was nothing to stop her, and he couldn’t hold on.

I’m sympathetic to the family and grandfather, but as I try to put myself in his shoes, I have to consider the 11 stories up element... geez, that’s awfully risky. And if the windows on Level 11 have that blue tint, it’s going to be a tough sell. 

That sounds very plausible.  Friggin' hate reading about shit like this. And like Eddie said, you can't make a ship childproof. By their very nature they're potentially dangerous places.  Trying to hold the cruise line responsible is beyond BS, they'll get money though if it's a jury trial.

[TrashMaster G 17583]

Was gramps too "sedated" to feel the breeze coming in through the window?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

6 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

Was gramps too "sedated" to feel the breeze coming in through the window?

It's been speculated.  He could have been standing in front of the window, even back a bit, and the kid just lunged at the glass.

[Quagmire 2147]

The fact they are suing the cruise makes them pieces of shit, plus the fact they did it only a few days later. Would think you’d at least take some time before being a dick

[HoustonHorn 1062]

meh, its America. This will settle out. And while I think the grandad was at fault, company/insurance will pay something to make it go away.

They are dicks for suing, but on the flipside, better to have no kid and a few million in your pocket than no kid and nothing in your pocket. That being said, a large amount of that payout should go to charity or to increase awareness of how dangerous cruise ships can be.

[Tailgate 3022]

I’m just not sure how one would act in one of the worst nightmare scenarios to actually play out.

Feel bad for everyone involved.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21913]

They are dicks for suing, but on the flipside, better to have no kid and a few million in your pocket than no kid and nothing in your pocket.

I have a feeling in their case it’s more like better to have a few million in your pocket than a kid

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

6 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I have a feeling in their case it’s more like better to have a few million in your pocket than a kid

Yeah you can always make another kid. Making a cool $3m is tougher to do.

[El Diablo 4232]

Ya know if these had been Irish Travelers I could see this being some sick scam but I think they were mid-Western Lutherans. You know, the salt of the earth types. Morons.

[Lhorn 4930]

5 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It's impossible to child-proof a ship especially if the adult in charge is incapable of determining if a shaded window is open or closed. My guess is that the family has to convince themselves that gramps isn't at fault or they rip the family apart. The family is most likely split apart anyway.

I agree with this completely.  I think convincing themselves that the cruise company is at fault might be how they are dealing with the guilt.  If it's the company's fault then grandpa doesn't have to feel as bad and having a jury side with them is "proof" of the company's guilt.  I also think there are lawyers in their ears telling them that it's their obligation to right this wrong - for the safety of humanity, they have to do this or else others will die, despite the fact that literally millions have had access to those windows or similar windows over the years and most likely zero have accidentally fallen to their death from them.  "Don't let the baby's death be in vain, sue the company to save others from similar tragedies."  It's what the family wants to hear - "it's not your fault."  That's got to be an easier way to deal with this versus the truth - you accidentally killed a baby.

I'm sure the money doesn't hurt, but they've convinced themselves that hitting the cruise line in the pocket book is the only way they'll learn.  They could then donate the money, but of course they won't be doing that. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

Grandpa charged with negligent homicide:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/us/toddler-cruise-ship-death-grandfather-charged/index.html

My cynical side wonders if the family immediately discussing lawsuits against the cruise line helped contribute to this outcome.

[El Diablo 4232]

6 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Grandpa charged with negligent homicide:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/us/toddler-cruise-ship-death-grandfather-charged/index.html

My cynical side wonders if the family immediately discussing lawsuits against the cruise line helped contribute to this outcome.

Does make one wonder. On the one hand the cruise lines are a deep pockets easy target. On the other they provide a good bit of economic production.

[Gene Parmesan 4008]

Was he drunk?  I don't know if I agree with charging him, but I also don't agree with the cruise line being on the hook.  I guess if a toddler is dead someone has to be at fault?  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13516]

There doesn't seem to be a clear consensus on when to charge an adult when a child dies. We seem to universally want to execute someone for leaving a child in a hot car but let a kid fall from a window or run into a parking lot, and we want to let the parent off since they're grieving. Personally when I think someone is negligent based on some level of reason, their grief should have zero impact on the decision. They can grieve in prison just as much as at home.

[Pato del Muerto 52548]

I’m guessing the investigation has something, otherwise the charge would be tough to convict. 

I wonder what the chances are that the lawsuit gets dropped right before the charges do, or before a plea deal?

[Bevo 13592]

Good for the cruiseline. I don't care if the guy goes to prison, but I get tired of BS suits that many people don't think are BS. Finding him guilty of negligence should absolve the cruiseliner. At the very least it will give pause to any attorney taking the case.

[Texas_Rocks 346]

Many of the predictions in this thread have missed the boat.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21913]

I'd say that the quality of posts in this thread has really fallen off

[Tailgate 3022]

Muy Interesante 

[TwiceHorn 31516]

2 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Was he drunk?  I don't know if I agree with charging him, but I also don't agree with the cruise line being on the hook.  I guess if a toddler is dead someone has to be at fault?  

I know this was posted mostly in jest, but it all too often reflects the thinking behind so many things subsequent to a horrible accident.

[TwiceHorn 31516]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There doesn't seem to be a clear consensus on when to charge an adult when a child dies. We seem to universally want to execute someone for leaving a child in a hot car but let a kid fall from a window or run into a parking lot, and we want to let the parent off since they're grieving. Personally when I think someone is negligent based on some level of reason, their grief should have zero impact on the decision. They can grieve in prison just as much as at home.

By the same token, what is the need to punish them?  Are they a risk to society?  Are we afraid that "they're going to think it's ok" to do this or repeat this kind of action?

In the case of a hot car, I think we tend to believe that the negligence there is a special kind of stupid, usually occasioned by the parent's convenience rather than being in the nature of a really unfortunate occurrence.

I think there are no bright lines on this and there shouldn't be.  And we especially don't need to invent any new crimes for it.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

34 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I'd say that the quality of posts in this thread has really fallen off

Well, there was a window of opportunity, but it just seemed to have slipped thru our fingers...

 

I'm going to Hell, and I don't even believe in it.

[TwiceHorn 31516]

9 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Grandpa charged with negligent homicide:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/us/toddler-cruise-ship-death-grandfather-charged/index.html

My cynical side wonders if the family immediately discussing lawsuits against the cruise line helped contribute to this outcome.

Don't believe it would actually assist the cruise line much.  They'd be arguing grandpa's negligence was a supervening cause (or major contributory/comparative negligence percentage) either way.  A conviction, if it were to go to trial, might assist that, but it's not a slam dunk.

Now, if the cruise line were able to not only affect the prosecutor bringing the charges, but also dismissal or a favorable plea in return for dismissal or favorable settlement of the civil case, that might be a different story.  I'm not a big fan of prosecutors, but that goes beyond the pale.  It is Puerto Rico, though  . . . . .

[Texas_Rocks 346]

Whoever was holding that guy’s beer must feel horrible for not suggesting that they take the baby instead.

[Homercles 10206]

9 hours ago, Texas_Rocks said:

Many of the predictions in this thread have missed the boat.

Was it ever worth it?
Was there all that much to gain?
Well, we knew we missed the boat
And we'd already missed the plane
We didn't read the invite
We just dance at our wake
All our favorites were playing
So we could shake, shake, shake, shake, shake

[TexasEd 8067]

Where were the allegations of drunk grandpa?  I did not see it in the CNN story.

[El Diablo 4232]

3 hours ago, TexasEd said:

Where were the allegations of drunk grandpa?  I did not see it in the CNN story.

Gramps was on a cruise with his family. I think it's just assumed.

[El Diablo 4232]

3 hours ago, TexasEd said:

Where were the allegations of drunk grandpa?  I did not see it in the CNN story.

Gramps was on a cruise with his family. I think it's just assumed.

[RPM 26332]

15 hours ago, Texas_Rocks said:

Many of the predictions in this thread have missed the boat.

They fell flat, but that's what happens when you carelessly bounce ideas to see what sticks.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20468]

On 7/23/2019 at 10:52 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Like I keep saying, Americans love to "work backward" from a horrible and tragic incident to assess blame.

 

Witness the 39,324 posts after Texas loses a football game for proof of this.

[smwhorn 483]

https://www.chron.com/news/article/They-can-t-do-anything-worse-to-me-says-14855199.php?cmpid=hpctp

[Zwylde 812]

Man, the video does not look good at all.  It seriously looks like he threw her out the window unless he just assumed there was some sort of decking under the window.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7805799/Video-shows-grandfather-dropping-toddler-death-cruise-ship-window.html

 

 

 

[Pato del Muerto 52548]

Either I don’t have a good visualization of what the ship and windows look like, or he leaned out through the window that he claims he thought was there, than picked her up and put her right through. 
Is there something beyond the spot where the camera loses them?

[spystud13 2371]

Fuck him, he’s gonna get off with a little probation. Sorry mother fucker. 

Now he’s blaming color blindness. 

[Newdoc 3448]

Umm yeah, he goes up to the window he states he didn’t know was missing or open and proceeds to lean out it for a lonnng time before he holds the toddler out the window for a long time prior to dripping her.

I get it. Definitely blame deflection and it’s natural due to guilt but the family overplayed their hand by suing the cruise line.

[gsoda3 3277]

in that video i can't tell when he's holding the baby and when he drops her.  

[Lhorn 4930]

^^^Good but no way I’m watching a video where I might see a toddler falling to her death.