The Big 5 & all the rest

[GringoSalado 1651]

1 minute ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I don’t gamble, but in that area you’re losing a lot of revenue to Louisiana.  If you could get all the people who go to Louisiana to gamble to somehow stay there, it might be a net positive.  But instead they go there to spend money, then come back here and vote.  

 

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm operating under the assumption that gambling will always attract out of area money. History supports this pretty strongly. You think people are visiting Oklahoma because, well, they ALSO have a casino but they're really there for the culture?

 

Yes and the end game is we all have casinos, and we are all right back where we started. There is no inherent economic benefit to gaming.

 

edit: as a kid we used to run quarter horses a bit (as a side thing to our rodeo business). Ruidoso Downs was a big deal, fairly swanky (I'm talking early 1980's), lots of money. They opened the Mescalero casino and that took to to 11 so to speak. Great food, entertainment, and West Texas money poored into the town.

 

I was up there recently. It has (more or less) regressed back to a shithole. The casino is okay, the resort and golf course a litle ratty, and the track is failing.

Edited July 12, 2019 by GringoSalado

[Nice Guy Eddie 13521]

4 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

We just opened up 2 new offices in Davenport and Peoria. Need about 180 employees in each and can't fucking hire anyone worth a fuck in those places. 

I've heard that Iowa has the lowest unemployment rate in the country and not surprisingly they can't find workers. And that boggles the mind that some people would rather sit at home unemployed and not move to the job. I get that it's Iowa but a career is important too. 

 

[ztejas 43528]

11 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

I'd love to see more numbers on the teacher thing. Because in places like HISD and I'd assume areas of Dallas, the school districts are a fucking joke and teachers are fleeing not just out of those jobs, but out of the profession entirely as a result. I could see a teaching position in smaller towns, particularly religious ones, as having a pretty attractive sales pitch to someone who viewed teaching as a calling, but doesn't want to deal with the horrid parents and lawsuit potential you see in major metro areas. I would assume the lower salaries are offset by the lower cost of living. My wife and I wonder out loud if the value of a high school education for our son would be much better at say, Wimberley, as opposed to one of the high schools in Houston (not Katy, Woodlands, etc). Our gut reaction is that Wimberley would likely be leaps and bounds better. 

The north Dallas suburbs have very good school districts - and thousands of very smart students. Somewhere like WImberley doesn't compare.  

[SydneyCarton 48150]

Just now, GringoSalado said:

 

 

Yes and the end game is we all have casinos, and we are all right back where we started. There is no inherent economic benefit to gaming.

I mean, sure, that's an interesting hypothetical, every state has plenty of casinos, everyone stays home. But it's highly, highly unlikely. Less likely than Texas changing the laws to allow casinos on non-indian land. Ask that shitpile up in Livingston how it's going without table games. So on that basis, assuming laws were changed gambling might be a net positive for Longview. 

And once you get to the idea that having a casino wouldn't be in every state, then of course gambling does bring things with it. Food, entertainment, golf courses, etc, and the people to fill them up. Of course, even in this hypothetical it doesn't matter, because a law change would make Galveston the gambling hub of Texas before Longview, although maybe Dallas wants a gambling spot up north too. Who knows in this fantasy we're constructing. 

[SydneyCarton 48150]

3 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I've heard that Iowa has the lowest unemployment rate in the country and not surprisingly they can't find workers. And that boggles the mind that some people would rather sit at home unemployed and not move to the job. I get that it's Iowa but a career is important too. 

 

Well, then again, we should examine the kinds of job in this instance and what we're calling a Career. Granted, I have no idea in this instance, because fuck living in Iowa. But if it's working in a call center, or plucking chickens I do not consider that a career. 

[GringoSalado 1651]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

I mean, sure, that's an interesting hypothetical, every state has plenty of casinos, everyone stays home. But it's highly, highly unlikely.

hyperbole.

 

If there is no gambling anywhere, and Shithole TX puts in a casino, it's a boomtown. Every subsequent casino that opens anywhere subtracts from that. So even if you never get to "every state has plenty of casinos" as you approach that, you approach zero benefit.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11820]

I guess I shouldn’t have used gambling as an example, I certainly didn’t mean to present it as a shining savior of small town commerce.  I was more referring to the mindset that doesn’t allow for change as a large inhibitor of it. 

[SydneyCarton 48150]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

The north Dallas suburbs have very good school districts - and thousands of very smart students. Somewhere like WImberley doesn't compare.  

That's great. Now do South Dallas. 

I was comparing it to HISD. I don't have a fucking clue what the demographics are like in Dallas, but I also specifically disqualified Katy and The Woodlands of the Houston area in my original post, which I'm going to take a shot in the dark are similar areas to this North Dallas you speak of, dude. Now, please, offer me up your bonafides on the quality of teachers and students in Wimberley, Captain Expert. 

[SydneyCarton 48150]

1 minute ago, GringoSalado said:

hyperbole.

 

If there is no gambling anywhere, and Shithole TX puts in a casino, it's a boomtown. Every subsequent casino that opens anywhere subtracts from that. So even if you never get to "every state has plenty of casinos" as you approach that, you approach zero benefit.

Yeah man, I get it. I literally said the same thing at the end of my last post. 

[Zepol87 9191]

Speaking of tech jobs moving out to places like longview, I mean we have an entire floor of ppl that are from India on visas. Pretty sure if we relocated them to bumfuck Texas it wouldn't go over well with the locals. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13521]

I love casinos but I don't buy the idea that you're going to turn a town around by adding a casino. It will bring in some new tax revenue and some low paying jobs but there are plenty of negatives that also come along for the ride.

Besides IF Texas ever allows casinos, they would only allow a few licenses that smaller towns won't be able to get a piece of it. For some godforsaken reason, Galveston is always mentioned.  The correct place to allow them is in Houston, Austin, Dallas and SA. There is where the people are.

[SydneyCarton 48150]

Just now, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I guess I shouldn’t have used gambling as an example, I certainly didn’t mean to present it as a shining savior of small town commerce.  I was more referring to the mindset that doesn’t allow for change as a large inhibitor of it. 

The problem is that most of the innovation you were speaking off, regardless of small town mindset, would require major legal changes to ALL of Texas. Gambling. Prostitution. Marijuanna. We'd need to find other innovation.

 

Honestly, the best thing I've heard so far would be a high speed raid to Dallas, etc. If you told me I could get on a rail and end up in Dallas and it took 45 minutes, but live in a small town, I'd really consider that proposition. 

[GringoSalado 1651]

Just now, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I guess I shouldn’t have used gambling as an example, I certainly didn’t mean to present it as a shining savior of small town commerce.  I was more referring to the mindset that doesn’t allow for change as a large inhibitor of it. 

Good point, and not to beat a dead horse, but some of these older gaming sites were put in years ago when resistance was much, much higher. So that is, IMO, indicative of a mindset that allows change.

 

Mind you I'm not talking about E Texas, I've never really been there. In rural NM we don't have any sort of Bible Thumping resistance to those sorts of things. We have meth instead.

[SydneyCarton 48150]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I love casinos but I don't buy the idea that you're going to turn a town around by adding a casino. It will bring in some new tax revenue and some low paying jobs but there are plenty of negatives that also come along for the ride.

Besides IF Texas ever allows casinos, they would only allow a few licenses that smaller towns won't be able to get a piece of it. For some godforsaken reason, Galveston is always mentioned.  The correct place to allow them is in Houston, Austin, Dallas and SA. There is where the people are.

Galveston is always mentioned because it has a long, long history of Gambling. The Fertita family were gamblers and gangsters in Galveston for decades before that shit got snuffed out. McNelly isn't around much, but he could give you a rousing and fascinating string of stories about the place in that era. It also happens that a surviving Billionaire Fertita still owns a fuck ton of Galveston, and he has casinos already. I can almost guarantee you that he'd ensure he got a shot in his home city, with a history of such. 

On top of that, Galveston has a beach. A shitty beach, but a beach. There are other things to do. A sea breeze is nice. You're making a slightly more compelling pitch for people to travel to spend money. I'm not honestly sure the bigger cities want a piece of that pie. I think they'd just rather have it close, but that is just me speculating.

[hayden_horn 11365]

38 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Good to see posters that are genius enough to recognize that Sheila Jackson Lee is one of the prime drivers of Houston's boom.

well, you kind of missed and yet made my point. if longview grew into a decent sized city with some decent sized employers, the demographics will change. is that really what longview citizens want? i'm assuming that some of them do want that, rather than watch their town fall apart. 

33 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

you could be right but I would also think that a Facebook or Google would be concerned about attracting talent to a small city/big town. If anything they may increase work-from-wherever options but that doesn't necessarily help the rural communities.

But it's not like this is a recent trend of people moving from rural areas to big city.  When is the last time there was sustained movement in the other direction?  Basically never in recent history?

right, never in recent history. except when companies relocated from NYC to a sleepy farmtown an hour north of dallas.  yes, the point is taken that dallas was there as a draw, in a similar manner as roundrock was for austin. but nevertheless, i think there may be some room for that as remote working becomes more of a thing. it's difficult for me, because i'm a collaborative person, and i kind of enjoy the office environment. i think i would slowly close off and begin to hate my job if i worked alone from home. but it works for some people. i would posit that the venn diagram between those who enjoy working from home and those who might enjoy a country type slower lifestyle would have at least some overlap. if a town has good enough broadband, they might be able to even entice people to work remotely from their town. 

28 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

Plano also had the advantage of highly regarded schools which helps attract families with money.

Towns like Longview can't pay teachers as competitively as a Plano or Woodlands or Southlake or other wealthy suburb. Those kinds of districts soak up the talent which makes it very difficult for more rural areas to get high quality teachers.

Why is a teacher right out of college going to want to move to a small town for 10-12 thousand less in pay, with fewer young singles to meet, less night life, etc?

So those towns have to hope an already experienced teacher moves to town because their spouse got a job there or something. 

yeah, this one is a bit of a chicken and egg. i forget exactly how plano got in the position they got for the good schools. i was, after all, 8. but my parents moved from richardson to plano because of the schools, that much i do remember. there's no reason that longview couldn't invest in their schools to draw more talent their way. i don't know their recapture situation, but as recently as 2013, they spent more than $10M on a new football stadium.

23 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

Good points, I think your last sentence sort of says it all.

 

I'm from New Mexico, and in my former life operated a few ranches in the state, so I lived near (but not in) some smaller towns (Tularosa, T or C, Santa Rosa). Gorgeous scenery, but when you lower your eyes you see toothless meth heads. I would literally check your teeth before I hired you. The Chicken/Egg thing, all the folks who don't like meth moved to Albuquerque and got good jobs.

Traveling in those rural circles I've also spent time in places like Big Spring, San Angelo, and Milano. All those little Texas towns are 1,000% better off than the best of the shitty NM towns (like say, Silver City).

east texas is also fairly methy. i don't know a way around that.

9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Plano is still in the DFW metro. Longview is not. Dallas isn't exactly a tourist destination but there are almost countless things you can do in Dallas that you can't do within 50 miles of Longview. 

living in plano, we rarely did anything in dallas. arlington? sure. slum it at the garland wet n wild? sure. so being part of the metroplex was an advantage longview cannot overcome, and i take that point.

i'm really just trying to think my way around the problem. plano had dallas. austin had music and university of texas.  longview has country bars. (do they still?)

but thinking outside the box is what these small burgs have to do or you end up like a busted oil town with no downtown, and a bunch of trailers on the edges of town where people cook the meth.

[hayden_horn 11365]

14 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

Good point, and not to beat a dead horse, but some of these older gaming sites were put in years ago when resistance was much, much higher. So that is, IMO, indicative of a mindset that allows change.

 

Mind you I'm not talking about E Texas, I've never really been there. In rural NM we don't have any sort of Bible Thumping resistance to those sorts of things. We have meth instead.

east texas has bible thumpers AND meth.

game, set, match!

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

I agree with Sydney "Casino" Carton. The solution is to legalize gambling, prostitution, and drugs and let every city in Texas turn into that island from Pinocchio. 

[hayden_horn 11365]

the more i think about the points raised here, i think the first steps are education and high speed broadband. you get those things, you could end up with a successful pastoral community exurb.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

5 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

the more i think about the points raised here, i think the first steps are education and high speed broadband. you get those things, you could end up with a successful pastoral community exurb.

Nah more churches and Dollar Generals

Edited July 12, 2019 by SimonBolivar

[Nivek 16979]

34 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I've heard that Iowa has the lowest unemployment rate in the country and not surprisingly they can't find workers. And that boggles the mind that some people would rather sit at home unemployed and not move to the job. I get that it's Iowa but a career is important too. 

 

It isn't that hard to understand.  1) You can assume everyone is lazy.  2) You can choose to look at circumstances in where it could cost people money to move with little guarantee for stability.  Couple that with those reports about cash/debt that people have, loss of access to resources (special schools, health care, etc.) it is easy to see how many would not see this an attractive option.    

It is very easy for a single dude, with little attachments to relocate. 

[CooterBrown 18022]

Honestly, the best thing I've heard so far would be a high speed raid to Dallas, etc. If you told me I could get on a rail and end up in Dallas and it took 45 minutes, but live in a small town, I'd really consider that proposition. 

You’d be living in Dallas but sleeping in a small town.

For those dreaming of living in or retiring to a small town, have you ever actually lived in one? They fucking suck. Mayberry doesn’t exist and about 0.001% of them are nice like Carmel By The Sea. They are fucking boring shitholes filled with mostly terrible people that everyone else from there had to escape from.

[SydneyCarton 48150]

Just now, CooterBrown said:

 

You’d be living in Dallas but sleeping in a small town.

For those dreaming of living in or retiring to a small town, have you ever actually lived in one? They fucking suck. Mayberry doesn’t exist and about 0.001% of them are nice like Carmel By The Sea. They are fucking boring shitholes filled with mostly terrible people that everyone else from there had to escape from.

 

I mean, I wouldn't live in Longview. But if it was someplace relatively nice, sure, maybe. 

Wimberley is fucking gorgeous, and we love it there. We've never lived there. We've visited and liked Boerne. In Houston, I think a comparable comparison could be Conroe or Livingston. I work with a guy who drives an hour a day into our office and leaves at like 5 or 6 am to do it to avoid traffic, all because he likes not being in the city. If you offered me a chance to live on a lake but rail into Houston to work, I'd consider it if I were a bit older. But all of these things to me center around having a peaceful and pretty backyard with a view I can enjoy. Plays and food and culture are fun, but I also don't mind reading books and watching netflix. I honestly can see it. 

[crash_davis 23114]

1 minute ago, CooterBrown said:

 

You’d be living in Dallas but sleeping in a small town.

For those dreaming of living in or retiring to a small town, have you ever actually lived in one? They fucking suck. Mayberry doesn’t exist and about 0.001% of them are nice like Carmel By The Sea. They are fucking boring shitholes filled with mostly terrible people that everyone else from there had to escape from.

 

this man.  this man knows small towns.  

there's a reason small towns have been dying for the last 4 of 5 decades.  because young people realize they fucking suck.  the only people who like small towns are retirees who love nostalgia and want a quieter life.  that should be a fucking red flag.

if old people desire to move to where you live to die peacefully, the town probably sucks.

[Chad Fuck 17742]

1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

this man.  this man knows small towns.  

there's a reason small towns have been dying for the last 4 of 5 decades.  because young people realize they fucking suck.  the only people who like small towns are retirees who love nostalgia and want a quieter life.  that should be a fucking red flag.

if old people desire to move to where you live to die peacefully, the town probably sucks.

You forgot the people who never leave because they're scared or didn't have an example of someone who "made good" by leaving.

We get bored, so we get married, just like dust, we settle in this town

[ztejas 43528]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

That's great. Now do South Dallas. 

I was comparing it to HISD. I don't have a fucking clue what the demographics are like in Dallas, but I also specifically disqualified Katy and The Woodlands of the Houston area in my original post, which I'm going to take a shot in the dark are similar areas to this North Dallas you speak of, dude. Now, please, offer me up your bonafides on the quality of teachers and students in Wimberley, Captain Expert. 

The poster you replied to was making the point that it is easier to attract quality teachers if you are in a city like Dallas or Houston than somewhere like Longview and used Plano as an example. Yes there are shitty schools in Dallas - and you don't send your kids to those schools. If you are in Longview or Wimberley you have much fewer options when it comes to your kids education - public or private - and less access to quality teaching, tutoring, coaching etc. No one needs to be an expert here. 

DISD also has bar none one of the finest magnet high schools in the country (actually two of them*).

Edited July 12, 2019 by ztejas

[Judge Roybeanbag 11820]

My brother is in the oil business and lived in Longview for a few years when he started out, late 90s.  He’s lived in Midland ever since and for comparison purposes he says Longview is what you’d get if you stuck Odessa in east Texas.

Sydney is right about rail, it would help those type towns a lot.  But still, there’s a reason most young professionals don’t move to places like that.  That reason is they aren’t welcomed there by a large part of the population.  

[SydneyCarton 48150]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

The poster you replied to was making the point that it is easier to attract quality teachers if you are in a city like Dallas or Houston than somewhere like Longview and used Plano as an example. Yes there are shitty schools in Dallas - and you don't send your kids to those schools. If you are in Longview or Wimberley you have much fewer options when it comes to your kids education - public or private - and less access to quality teaching, tutoring, coaching etc. No one needs to be an expert here. 

DISD also has bar none one of the finest magnet high schools in the country. 

That's fucking great. But using the poster I was responding to while ignoring the actual content of MY post that YOU quoted is fucking stupid. I was comparing MY school situation, which is HISD, comparing it to a smaller like like Wimberley or Longview. Sure, the option exists I could just move to Katy or The Woodlands or North Dallas, and live in a fucking suburbanite hell, in my case populated by fucking aggies. But that wasn't the comparison I was setting up, for a reason. HISD is full of great magnet schools as well, including the elementary down the street my son might attend. There are plenty of options.

But pound for pound, there is a reasonable argument to be made for going to a smaller school with less options for tutoring and sports but a more wholesome community and perhaps much, much smaller classrooms and therefore more attention from the actual teacher. I don't think it's as obviously cut and dry as you might make it appear on the surface. Yes, teachers can get jobs in Katy or the Woodlands or Cypress. But those jobs aren't unlimited, and lots of teachers don't want to teach 35-40 kids in each classroom (which is HISD levels), and might opt for an alternative. I can't speak to Dallas, but teachers are leaving the industry in Houston in unprecedented levels, or are fleeing to private schools where the school and teachers aren't held hostage to the parents. A revered principle at one of the finest magnet schools in HISD resigned and/or was fired recently because a bunch of parents of failing students accused him of failing their children based on race. At the same school a friend of mine told stories of kids flipping tables and throwing chairs and teachers can't do shit but evacuate the class because of threat of suit. It's not unreasonable to think that this might be less likely to occur in a small town. Do you need more good options if the local small school option is pretty decent?

 

For context:

https://hellobeautiful.com/3004194/houston-teacher-under-fire-after-parents-say-childrens-grades-were-based-on-race/

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

6 hours ago, Lobo said:

I think the RGV and El Paso are doing pretty well right now.  

El Paso benefits from location (IE being the biggest city between Phoenix and San Antonio from east to west and Denver from the north to south)  and the military presence.   They can withstand the ups and downs of the economy better than most because of that fact.  

On the other hand,  the RGV's  economy almost relies on government jobs (law enforcement, education, welfare agencies)  and retail  along with being a checkpoint if you will for trade going back and forth across the border.  What manufacturing s related to trade with Mexico is tiny compared to what is manufactured across the border.   Thankfully the economy in Mexico hasn't tanked as bad as it did a few times in 80's and early 90's because when it did,  the economy took a wicked  hit down there.   Unfortunately the political leadership down there has not learned from those crashes of the Mexican economy and they continue to base everything off retail trade.  At least up until a couple of decades ago, the RGV had a huge agricultural base to rely on, but sadly a lot of that is gone now due to property being sold for housing  and much of it going to substandard housing to in the form of Colonias which attract many of the new immigrants from the south.  Which in turn put strains on the schools and new schools have to be built which provides more government jobs and cycle goes on and on.  

[Underdog 28766]

2 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

We just opened up 2 new offices in Davenport and Peoria. Need about 180 employees in each and can't fucking hire anyone worth a fuck in those places. 

Get yourself a new map. 

[Capn81 373]

We just opened up 2 new offices in Davenport and Peoria. Need about 180 employees in each and can't fucking hire anyone worth a fuck in those places. 

I am not too familiar with Davenport, but I could see this issue in Peoria. I imagine that there is a decent commuter base that travels from Peoria to Bloomington for higher paying jobs.

[Guest Lobo]

2 hours ago, Underdog said:

Get yourself a new map. 

One that shows 23 miles....that way 

[Zepol87 9191]

Get yourself a new map. 

2 separate offices

[Beau Vine 54380]

4 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

For those dreaming of living in or retiring to a small town, have you ever actually lived in one? They fucking suck. Mayberry doesn’t exist and about 0.001% of them are nice like Carmel By The Sea. They are fucking boring shitholes filled with mostly terrible people that everyone else from there had to escape from.

 

No offense, but you have shit for brains.

[Nivek 16979]

Some of the small towns could try to leverage the slower pace as a 'getaway' and second home option.   People need a reason to visit.   

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

I can offer some perspective on the teacher situation as I’m somebody that hires them. As a group, you have to think of them as degreed professionals that like the same types of amenities that other degreed professionals like. They are no more likely to want to live in a town with few entertainment options than anybody else.

Another major point for older, married teachers is that they are likely to not be the breadwinner in their household. They are married to another professional that would have limited job prospects in a smaller town. 

Teachers that are unhappy with their job are mostly likely to decide to quit the profession or move to a new school or district in the same metro area. When I was a teacher, I moved districts in the Austin area. It never once crossed my mind to move to a small town. In fact, I have been interviewing more teachers interested in moving from a small town to the city. Why? Because they are degreed professionals that like the same things that other degreed professionals like.

Finally, culture matters and smaller cities/towns have a reputation problem. Whether it is true or not, they are perceived as backwards and not that interested in education. They aren’t very diverse and have a reputation of being intolerant to outsiders. It’s possible to fix that, but would the current residents allow it? Doubtful.

 

[Trey3216 15352]

On 7/12/2019 at 12:43 PM, hayden_horn said:

nobody thought major companies would relocate to plano, but now that you've got my marbles rolling around in my brainpan...

maybe they don't have to relocate hqs there. but maybe longview could market a "pastoral" lifestyle with lower property costs, but proper broadband. maybe they could lure facebook/google/whoever satellite offices for employees who want to leave the big city life, and instead of working remote in dallas or austin or houston, they can have a ten minute commute to some low-rise office building and be surrounded by other like-minded, not necessarily anti-big city types, but people who want slower weekend lifestyle.

i know there are people my age to whom that would appeal, but i'd bet there is a non insignificant millennial hipster population that would like a smaller town lifestyle, if the breweries and other accouterments are in evidence. they could grow their own organic vegetables raise their chickens or whatever on their own land, and not sit in traffic for an hour or longer one way to and from work.

i dunno, just spitballing here, but i would be willing to bet the big tech firms could be sold on the idea.

Ideas like yours are exactly what some of the people in Waco area are working on.  Lots of smallish startups here, still a lot of land available, and a Chamber of Commerce working diligently to garner interest for a regional/satellite hub for some larger companies like AT&T, Sprint, FB, etc.   Space-X is bringing more jobs to the area, and not just the welders or rocket surgeons.  It can happen, just need 1 bigger company to bring 1-4K white collar jobs and that injects a bunch of $$ into a local economy.   

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

Waco has some advantages that many of these other towns don’t. It has a university, it’s in between Dallas and SA/Austin, and it already has almost 300k people in the metro area.

[tx 3 putt 77332]

5 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Finally, culture matters and smaller cities/towns have a reputation problem. Whether it is true or not, they are perceived as backwards and not that interested in education. They aren’t very diverse and have a reputation of being intolerant to outsiders. It’s possible to fix that, but would the current residents allow it? Doubtful.

 

you just summed it up very nicely. 

 

article hits close to home. ive worked at that chem plant a couple of times. most of their young engineers leave after a year or two to greener pastures. it's a great site to get experience

[Beau Vine 54380]

On 7/12/2019 at 3:34 PM, SydneyCarton said:

That's fucking great. But using the poster I was responding to while ignoring the actual content of MY post that YOU quoted is fucking stupid. I was comparing MY school situation, which is HISD, comparing it to a smaller like like Wimberley or Longview. Sure, the option exists I could just move to Katy or The Woodlands or North Dallas, and live in a fucking suburbanite hell, in my case populated by fucking aggies. But that wasn't the comparison I was setting up, for a reason. HISD is full of great magnet schools as well, including the elementary down the street my son might attend. There are plenty of options.

But pound for pound, there is a reasonable argument to be made for going to a smaller school with less options for tutoring and sports but a more wholesome community and perhaps much, much smaller classrooms and therefore more attention from the actual teacher. I don't think it's as obviously cut and dry as you might make it appear on the surface. Yes, teachers can get jobs in Katy or the Woodlands or Cypress. But those jobs aren't unlimited, and lots of teachers don't want to teach 35-40 kids in each classroom (which is HISD levels), and might opt for an alternative. I can't speak to Dallas, but teachers are leaving the industry in Houston in unprecedented levels, or are fleeing to private schools where the school and teachers aren't held hostage to the parents. A revered principle at one of the finest magnet schools in HISD resigned and/or was fired recently because a bunch of parents of failing students accused him of failing their children based on race. At the same school a friend of mine told stories of kids flipping tables and throwing chairs and teachers can't do shit but evacuate the class because of threat of suit. It's not unreasonable to think that this might be less likely to occur in a small town. Do you need more good options if the local small school option is pretty decent?

 

For context:

https://hellobeautiful.com/3004194/houston-teacher-under-fire-after-parents-say-childrens-grades-were-based-on-race/

I've said all of this before on here, so a bunch of y'all can skip to the next post, but I wouldn't trade my daughter's experience in Wimberley ISD for any school in the state.  IMO, Wimberley schools are great if you've got a smart kid -- there are quite a few really exceptional teachers there who came there for quality of life, and they usually teach the honors classes.  My daughter's AP calculus and world history classes, for example, had just an absolutely absurd percentage of students make a 5 on the AP test, about double the national average of 5s given on the test.  It seems the normal kids who aren't in AP/honors just kind of get passed through the grades on schedule, but I suspect that happens everywhere.  

More importantly than that, though, kids there have a real sense of community and learn the power of that.  There seemed to be waaaaaaaaaaaaay fewer clearly delineated cliques than I experienced in high school, and I was amazed at how nice the kids were to each other and how tolerant they were of differences.  When you grow up in place where you literally know every kid in your grade, you learn to love your neighbors, and learn to celebrate others' successes and grieve others' losses, and most importantly, when someone in your community needs help, to roll up your sleeves and get to work helping them.  The world would be a lot better place if more people learned that stuff.  

 

[Michael Knight 12993]

Why are we treating towns like they are sacred entities that have always existed and need to be saved? Texas has too many goddamn towns to begin with and it's part of what's held us back for so long.  Small towns breed small minds. If everyone is leaving that town let nature take its course,  a town doesn't exist without its people and the people are moving on to better things

[Michael Knight 12993]

30 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I've said all of this before on here, so a bunch of y'all can skip to the next post, but I wouldn't trade my daughter's experience in Wimberley ISD for any school in the state.  IMO, Wimberley schools are great if you've got a smart kid -- there are quite a few really exceptional teachers there who came there for quality of life, and they usually teach the honors classes.  My daughter's AP calculus and world history classes, for example, had just an absolutely absurd percentage of students make a 5 on the AP test, about double the national average of 5s given on the test.  It seems the normal kids who aren't in AP/honors just kind of get passed through the grades on schedule, but I suspect that happens everywhere.  

More importantly than that, though, kids there have a real sense of community and learn the power of that.  There seemed to be waaaaaaaaaaaaay fewer clearly delineated cliques than I experienced in high school, and I was amazed at how nice the kids were to each other and how tolerant they were of differences.  When you grow up in place where you literally know every kid in your grade, you learn to love your neighbors, and learn to celebrate others' successes and grieve others' losses, and most importantly, when someone in your community needs help, to roll up your sleeves and get to work helping them.  The world would be a lot better place if more people learned that stuff.  

 

This is just the kind of insidious thinking I'm talking about, why do you have to know someone to be nice to them? Why does someone have to live like you before you're celebrate their success why not grieve the losses of someone who you have nothing in common with. Why not help someone who isn't exactly like you? 

[Rougarou 594]

I thought this thread was about the Big 4 and we were adding like Grant Thornton or something for some reason and I was gonna be like, “hey, KPMG should be demoted before we add a new member!”, but this thread is way more interesting than that. 

I was at The Star in Frisco a few months ago where Ross Perot Jr. was a speaker during a lunch (which was how DFW plans to grow, etc. and how it’s adopting the transplants from all over) and he got distracted and started talking about how Plano got started. It’s his and his dad (RIP) perspective, but his contention is EDS came to Dallas and asked for a ton of concessions and such to build a huge campus for Perot Systems/EDS and Dallas said no. Perot said okay I’ll buy a ton of cheap land in some country land called Plano and invest and turn that area into an economic center and Dallas called his bluff. The rest, as they say is history (and not for nothing, the Perots are super heavily investing in areas around forth worth as well currently). So short of having some home grown billionaire who invents something or another out of Longview, not sure how the Plano model is realistic.

A city like Longview or Tyler (which has a UT system at least and basically gives online degrees away) could take off with the Bentonville model though. Have you guys visited Bentonville lately? It’s basically a solid second tier city in the South now thanks to Wal-Mart better than any city not named Atlanta, Charlotte or Nashville. It’s got a great airport, clean cool city, young smart people/families and all the fixin’s for entertainment, etc. With Arky being a destination school for fratty white people who are kinda smart but much better at being social and EQ over IQ and will have good careers, from Frisco and Plano — a persona who can’t get into UT anymore since the 2000’s— transplants are moving there out of college too. Longview or Tyler will need a company to own the initiative and maybe it’s not really repeatable as Walmart is the biggest company and has barely done it.

Last input here is that I just read a fascinating read by McKinsey around data of cities and their growth. You can skip the first part about automation which is where the premise started it’s investigation, but essentially:

“Cities and counties across the United States are entering this period of technological and labor market change from different starting points. We used a mathematical clustering method to categorize all US cities and counties into 13 archetypes based on their economic health, business dynamism, industry mix, labor force demographics, and other characteristics (download the full list of locations in each segment). This approach reveals that the differences between local economies across the country are more nuanced than a simple rural-urban divide or regional variations. Our 13 archetypes can be grouped into five segments with common patterns:

• Urban core. Twenty-five megacities and high-growth hubs account for roughly 30 percent of the US population and are the nation’s most dynamic places. The high-growth industries of high tech, media, healthcare, real estate, and finance make up a large share of these local economies. These cities have higher incomes, faster employment growth since the Great Recession, high net migration, and younger and more educated workforces than the rest of the country—but also high levels of income inequality. Many are experiencing congestion and affordable housing shortages.
• Urban periphery. These 271 counties are the extended suburbs of US cities. Home to 16 percent of the US population, they also have seen strong net migration, attracting people moving out of cities in search of more space. In most of these counties, a large share of the population works in nearby urban areas. Healthcare, retail, logistics, and local services are large parts of these local economies.
• Niche cities. These 56 much smaller towns and cities, home to 6 percent of the US population, have found success by building on unique features. In college-centric towns, a major research university dominates the local economy. Silver cities, many of which are in Florida, are fast-growing retirement destinations. Small powerhouses, such as Bend, OR, and Provo, UT, have built economic clusters around technology and other industries; they have the fastest economic growth rates and second-highest rate of net migration across our archetypes. All niche cities are attracting both workers and companies with a low cost of living and a high quality of life.
• Mixed middle. Almost one-quarter of the nation’s population is found in these 180 stable cities (such as Cincinnati and St. Louis), smaller independent economies (such as Lancaster, PA, and Winston-Salem, NC), and the manufacturing hubs that we call “America’s makers” (such as Rockford, IL, and Oshkosh, WI). Neither thriving nor in distress, these places have slower economic and job growth, higher unemployment, and workforces with slightly lower educational attainment than those in urban core cities. Some of America’s makers are on an upward trajectory, while others are in decline.
• Low-growth and rural areas. This group, which includes 54 trailing cities and more than 2,000 rural counties, is home to one-quarter of the US population. Many trailing cities, such as Flint, MI, and Bridgeport, CT, are former industrial towns with declining economies. Rural counties encompass somewhat better-performing places (Americana) and struggling areas (distressed Americana). In these segments, populations are older, unemployment is higher, and educational attainment is lower than the national average. Things are somewhat brighter in the 192 rural outlier counties that have found some success with tourism or mining and energy.

 

https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/future-of-work/the-future-of-work-in-america-people-and-places-today-and-tomorrow

Edited July 14, 2019 by Rougarou

[GringoSalado 1651]

43 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

This is just the kind of insidious thinking I'm talking about, why do you have to know someone to be nice to them? 

It's not insidious,it's reality. Some stranger in, say, Manhattan, gives zero fucks about you. This is less true as pop density goes down, I was stranded just outside Floydada, TX once but only for about ten minutes as multiple people pulled over to offer help.

 

 

It's human nature.

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11820]

You gotta admit, being stranded outside of Floydada sounds like the start to a good horror movie, though.  

[Beau Vine 54380]

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

This is just the kind of insidious thinking I'm talking about, why do you have to know someone to be nice to them? Why does someone have to live like you before you're celebrate their success why not grieve the losses of someone who you have nothing in common with. Why not help someone who isn't exactly like you? 

Why not learn some actual fucking reading comprehension?

Quote

I was amazed at how nice the kids were to each other and how tolerant they were of differences

real fucking insidious, that.

[Michael Knight 12993]

56 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Why not learn some actual fucking reading comprehension?

real fucking insidious, that.

Yeah, I'm sure the kids of Wimberley are real fucking different with their 92% white 2000+ population. Also spoiler alert kids in AP classes are gonna get a better education that the rest of the school.  But good for you that your kids never had to mingle with the browns.

[Beau Vine 54380]

1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

Yeah, I'm sure the kids of Wimberley are real fucking different with their 92% white 2000+ population. Also spoiler alert kids in AP classes are gonna get a better education that the rest of the school.  But good for you that your kids never had to mingle with the browns.

"Browns" are classified as "white," by the census numbers you're looking at, dumbass.  

[tx 3 putt 77332]

so what do you look for in a small town ? (outside of a job)

what gets you to pull the trigger ?

wimberly would be on my short list but that area (austin / san marcos / wimberly / johnson city / dripping springs) is booming. imo, wimberly is more a sub of san marcos which is an austin sub.

I also like kerrville / fredricksburg / johnson city, but who doesn't. ill eventually cash out of my houston home and move to a smaller town, just not sure where 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13521]

my parents left Houston when I was 11 to move to a small town Texas. It’s impossible to say with 100% certainty how my life would be different, but I’m convinced it was the worst mistake (not by my doing) of my life.  

I was lost my first year at UT. My high school education didn’t prepare me very well.  I had better than decent HS English program but the other programs seemed geared towards sending everyone to community college only.  I went to a small 4A school (late 80s definition) so I’m not talking about a 15 person class.  

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

On 7/12/2019 at 9:11 AM, Parliament said:

1234

Texas may have it worse, but most all 15-50 thousand people towns "in the middle of nowhere" struggle with this.  I've lived in those towns since college.  Kids go off to Fargo, Columbus, etc for college and come to enjoy the "scene" and amenities.  They have families and good job offers (as good as in Fargo) but don't wanna give that up.  I don't understand that myself, but I know it's a huge problem.

There are towns who are doing well at "stretching that gap;" of being a cow town with a micro-brewery.  Good schools, day care and after school options for working parents, and a nice park district.  Even a YMCA.  When Dickinson got our YMCA way back it was HUGE.  A small thing like that is a big think when you don't have it.

Rural areas tend to have better job prospects for men than women. (Agriculture and manufacturing just simply tip that way.)  I talk to many people who interview great prospects from out of town only to have them say, "I'll take this job if my wife can find a job in this town also."  Too often they can not.

Speaking of Dickinson. I hear y’all are getting a few new breweries soon