The Big 5 & all the rest

[Guest Lobo]

I think most city dwellers don't like living in big cities.  We do it for economic opportunity, a chance to give our children top-flight educations, and maybe there's a couple of peripheral benefits like live music, sporting events, and the like.  Otherwise, I'd move my ass out to the deep wilderness in a heartbeat.  Not small town Texas mind you, I mean like middle of nowhere off the grid.  Otherwise, what's the fucking point? 

I'm living in Austin until my daughters are off to college and we're heading for a place with no name.  I'll never understand people's fascination for being around other people.  Chills me to the bone just thinking about it.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Lobo

[GringoSalado 1651]

5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

my parents left Houston when I was 11 to move to a small town Texas. It’s impossible to say with 100% certainty how my life would be different, but I’m convinced it was the worst mistake (not by my doing) of my life.  

I was lost my first year at UT. My high school education didn’t prepare me very well.  I had better than decent HS English program but the other programs seemed geared towards sending everyone to community college only.  I went to a small 4A school (late 80s definition) so I’m not talking about a 15 person class.  

Didn't move but my parents did the opposite, car pooling me and my sister to the more urban school dist. once we were HS age. Sucked at first as I did not fit in but I finally learned how to speak/write English at a level commensurate (or in the neighborhood) w/ your avg. UT enrolee.

[GringoSalado 1651]

26 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

 commensurate (or in the neighborhood) w/ your avg. UT enrolee.

Well, those two things might be synonymous, making that repetitive, so perhaps I spoke too soon.

 

Do I have the fucking commas in the right place?

[Zavala 1384]

On 7/12/2019 at 1:56 PM, SydneyCarton said:

Galveston is always mentioned because it has a long, long history of Gambling. The Fertita family were gamblers and gangsters in Galveston for decades before that shit got snuffed out. McNelly isn't around much, but he could give you a rousing and fascinating string of stories about the place in that era. It also happens that a surviving Billionaire Fertita still owns a fuck ton of Galveston, and he has casinos already. I can almost guarantee you that he'd ensure he got a shot in his home city, with a history of such. 

On top of that, Galveston has a beach. A shitty beach, but a beach. There are other things to do. A sea breeze is nice. You're making a slightly more compelling pitch for people to travel to spend money. I'm not honestly sure the bigger cities want a piece of that pie. I think they'd just rather have it close, but that is just me speculating.

This shitty beach is hopefully going to get some decent hurricane swell this morning!

[immortal13 4059]

11 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Why are we treating towns like they are sacred entities that have always existed and need to be saved? Texas has too many goddamn towns to begin with and it's part of what's held us back for so long.  Small towns breed small minds. If everyone is leaving that town let nature take its course,  a town doesn't exist without its people and the people are moving on to better things

At least you're not there. 

So they've got that going for them...

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

7 hours ago, Lobo said:

I think most city dwellers don't like living in big cities.  We do it for economic opportunity, a chance to give our children top-flight educations, and maybe there's a couple of peripheral benefits like live music, sporting events, and the like.  Otherwise, I'd move my ass out to the deep wilderness in a heartbeat.  Not small town Texas mind you, I mean like middle of nowhere off the grid.  Otherwise, what's the fucking point? 

I'm living in Austin until my daughters are off to college and we're heading for a place with no name.  I'll never understand people's fascination for being around other people.  Chills me to the bone just thinking about it.

To each their own.  The middle of nowhere doesn’t sound enjoyable to me.  Maybe a week here or there could be refreshing but not much more than that.

[Nueces River Rat 5538]

29 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

To each their own.  The middle of nowhere doesn’t sound enjoyable to me.  Maybe a week here or there could be refreshing but not much more than that.

That's why my wife and I have taken a middle road with our future move.   I'm like Lobo in the sense I'd be happy in rural Hill Country like out towards Comfort,  Utopia, etc.   On the other hand my wife likes those areas, but wants to be close to amenities such as  shopping choices and  good healthcare.   And to tell you the truth,  I agree with the later because our next move and house build will likely be our last  for a while  if we can do it and as we both enter our 50's,  healthcare will become more of necessity.     She also wants to be have neighbors close by and since my business will likely keep me on the road a few times of the week and we will be empty nesters,  I can understand her concern there as well.   

We've looked at bunch  of options in person and via online between San Antonio and Austin and the closer you get to San Antonio, one can kind of enjoy both worlds vs Austin.   More land is being developed with 1 to 3 acre lots vs the cookie cutter subdivisions the closer you get to Austin which are popping up by dozens in communities neighboring Austin.   Places like Buda, Kyle, etc are going to be the next Round Rocks because that is where the growth patterns are headed.   

We are likely to be building in the Bulverde area and the wonderful thing  about Bulverde is they have drawn their city limits to where San Antonio has almost a zero chance of trying to incorporate the area where we are building on top of Bulverde is not in a hurry to incorporate themselves.   So  we will save a few thousand in what we'd pay in city taxes right off the bat.  Guadalupe State Park will be five minutes from my driveway and we'd be much closer to Austin now for music events and Longhorn sports which I'm really pumped about.    And of course San Antonio and many of the Hill Country communities offer cultural and other events to which we will now be able to enjoy with a simple day trip vs the overnight trips we have to do now.  

[HornsOverIthaca 2333]

The biggest concern with living away from the city?   Slow internet speed.  I was in Marble Falls a few weeks ago and holy crap.  It was like being back on The Global Village Teleport Bronze 2400.

Edited July 14, 2019 by HornsOverIthaca

[Armybrat 40834]

30 minutes ago, HornsOverIthaca said:

The biggest concern with living away from the city?   Slow internet speed.  I was in Marble Falls a few weeks ago and holy crap.  It was like being back on The Global Village Teleport Bronze 2400.

You were trying to surf the Internet instead of enjoying a chicken fried steak & pie at the Bluebonnet Café?  I mean...wtf?

[Armybrat 40834]

In regards to the NYT article.... that could've been written in 1955.... for most states in the Midwest and the Northeast.

Watched first hand after WWII the young people's abandonment of the rural towns in Missouri for the "big lights" & jobs of St. Louis & Kansas City, leaving behind near ghost towns populated by their aging parents & grandparents.

[HornsOverIthaca 2333]

17 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

You were trying to surf the Internet instead of enjoying a chicken fried steak & pie at the Bluebonnet Café?  I mean...wtf?

Thats exactly what I did afterward...did you mean to put an accent mark on cafe?  They ain't got accent marks in Marble Falls.

[Armybrat 40834]

Nah, iPad auto correct. This gadget must have been programmed by a francophile. 

[DallasHorn26 586]

I saw a lot of good points. Having grown up in Carthage I know Longview fairly well. It's where we went for entertainment and name brand shopping. Hell I remember countless trips to Sears, home Depot Lowe's, or a Walmart open past 8pm with my dad when he was working on projects.

I see Longview/Tyler as a feeder town for the small towns around it for shopping, entertainment, etc. This is evedenced by the traffic buildup around the holidays. I would assume some of this is dying out with more e-commerce coming in, but youre still going to have the olds that don't shop online and don't have quality internet access in the rural areas. I barely get 1 bar with AT&T at my dad's house and they have to use a hotspot device with Verizon to get any decent internet access.

I saw several comments about teachers. While I can't speak for Longview, I would say they are not attracting much outside talent. Most of my teachers growing up had grown up in Carthage, left for college (usually SFA or Aggy) and came back while their husbands were either a teacher/coach or in the oil/gas field. A lot of them are classmates of my parents or had taught my parents. I've seen quite a few people I've gone to high school with continue this trend.

Me personally, I never see myself going back to East Texas. It hasn't changed much at all in my lifetime besides a few new chain retailers that have moved in. My kids attend a school in a North Dallas suburb that I'm very happy with, while we still have all the entertainment/amenities the metroplex has to offer close by.

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[CHIEF 5081]

It's all about logistics. As a manufacturer in a small town only 30 minutes to Ft. Worth it sucks when your supplier can't get a truck to you for 7-10 business days. You have to drop what you are doing to go get the needed materials so your assembly line doesn't shut down. Or, Heaven forbid, they send the wrong item, but won't be back in the area for another week. Sure, the lower overhead like cheaper rent and land prices, and low cost labor are bonuses, but my business runs like a caterpillar. I love the small town, and would never consider moving back to Austin, or even into Ft. Worth. 

I could see established companies possibly moving in, but it's a bitch trying to run a start up in a small town. You will never get tech companies to move, because of the uneducated labor force, and lack of amenities that would attract tech savvy people. It's quite the conundrum. Big Tex Trailers was able to make a go of it in Mount Pleasant, Alcoa has a plant in Rockdale, but the list is rather short. If you get fired, played off, or the plant closes, your largest asset, your house, may sell at a fraction of what you paid for it, or not ever sell at all.

 

CHIEF 

[After irth 1243]

On 7/12/2019 at 2:07 PM, hayden_horn said:

east texas has bible thumpers AND meth.

game, set, match!

Agreement from Lufkin here. Goddam bible college is right across the street from me. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

On 7/12/2019 at 2:49 PM, GringoSalado said:

hyperbole.

 

If there is no gambling anywhere, and Shithole TX puts in a casino, it's a boomtown. Every subsequent casino that opens anywhere subtracts from that. So even if you never get to "every state has plenty of casinos" as you approach that, you approach zero benefit.

That's pretty much what has killed Atlantic City. Too many casinos spread around NY, CT, and PA now. 

Also, Shreveport Bossier attracts all that Texas I-20 gambling money and they really have nothing to show for it. Longview and Tyler have better economies than Shreveport already. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

On 7/14/2019 at 12:51 AM, tx 3 putt said:

so what do you look for in a small town ? (outside of a job)

what gets you to pull the trigger ?

wimberly would be on my short list but that area (austin / san marcos / wimberly / johnson city / dripping springs) is booming. imo, wimberly is more a sub of san marcos which is an austin sub.

I also like kerrville / fredricksburg / johnson city, but who doesn't. ill eventually cash out of my houston home and move to a smaller town, just not sure where 

 

Needs to have a walkable main street with a few open mom and pops. It helps if there is no nearby interstate exit oriented development. If I have to shop at Walmart and eat at Chili's, I can do that anywhere, and I hate doing that everywhere so I'm definitely not going to move to a town where that is the only option. 

There really aren't too many places left that aren't tourist traps, to be honest. Also, I don't consider Longview or Marshall small towns. Those are cities. 

[Texas_Rocks 346]

We just opened up 2 new offices in Davenport and Peoria. Need about 180 employees in each and can't fucking hire anyone worth a fuck in those places. 

I know it’s a totally different situation, but I was blown away to hear that the Sonic on westbound 290 between Oak Hill and Dripping Springs closed their doors because they supposedly couldn’t retain employees.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

On 7/12/2019 at 12:00 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Another story about how Greg Osterag (KU and NBA fame) is investing heavily in Mount Vernon:  https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/26943300/how-small-texas-town-reacted-hiring-art-briles

the story is about the Art Briles controversy but it shows that small towns need investment dollars to have a hope of surviving.

I also think that small town Texas needs to embrace tourism from the big cities. Or entice remote workers who can earn the big city salaries but want the small town living. This is where high speed rail can help some small towns thrive as a stretch suburb of a big city.  If a high speed rail stops at a small town a handful of times per day between houston and dallas, it gives residents more options.

If a high-speed train stops too often, it's not high speed.

We need a medium speed train. it doesn't have to go 200 MPH or whatever. Who is in that much of a fucking hurry to get to Dallas or Houston? Especially when you can work on the train. These small towns are worth saving and there are lots of people who could if their bosses weren't such assholes and needed them to come in the office every day. It's insane, given that employees can be monitored remotely very easily now. 

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

7 hours ago, After irth said:

Goddam bible college is right across the street from me. 

that must put a terrible strain on your well being

[Nueces River Rat 5538]

On 7/12/2019 at 12:00 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Another story about how Greg Osterag (KU and NBA fame) is investing heavily in Mount Vernon:  https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/26943300/how-small-texas-town-reacted-hiring-art-briles

the story is about the Art Briles controversy but it shows that small towns need investment dollars to have a hope of surviving.

I also think that small town Texas needs to embrace tourism from the big cities. Or entice remote workers who can earn the big city salaries but want the small town living. This is where high speed rail can help some small towns thrive as a stretch suburb of a big city.  If a high speed rail stops at a small town a handful of times per day between houston and dallas, it gives residents more options.

The tourism thing does work for small town Texas.   I mean look at Fredricksburg, Wimberley, Marfa, Alpine,  and that is just to name a few.   What I see in these places is a number of young people (talking about Gen X and below) owning or operating businesses.  Plus one thing they almost all say at least if pressed is they wanted to escape the big city/suburbs. 

I've also read a few article in passing about how millennials are finally buying homes and are actually seeking to establish roots in small town America.  So I don't know if the demise or at least the permanent stagnation  of some of these smaller towns or cities (like Longview) as this article notes is set in stone.   With telecommuting becoming a bigger thing in the workforce, you can see where small towns with affordable land and existing homes can be attractive.  The key for those small towns is to be reasonable distance from the larger cites for what they offer.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

On 7/12/2019 at 8:42 AM, NorthLoop said:

Craft beer doesn't have to have "hop bitterness". That guy has the wrong attitude. 

You don't know the half of it. I went there not too long after they opened. The only "normal" type beer they had was an Irish Red. The rest was just weird stuff like niche styles, but with lavender added. They didn't have your typical craft beer anchors. No normal IPA's, Porters, or Stouts. Not even a Kolsch or Helles Lager for the folks who don't normally drink craft beer. I did go back this weekend and their selection was a little better, but I think the damage had been done and the place was nearly empty on a Saturday night at 10, despite the town having few options for going out right now. Across the street at the coffee shop mentioned in the article, they have beer on tap from the general Tyler/Longvew/Shreveport/Dallas/Nacogdoches area and actually have a decent selection. They are doing pretty well. A brewery done right could do well in Longview. Just look at Tyler's True Vine. They opened up a new location with a large outdoor area that has a stage, a fenced off kids area so parents can have some beer without having to chase their kids around, and two different dog areas. It stays crowded, often with young families because it is nice and they have good beer. Lots of people drive from Longview to Tyler to go there.