What's the Matter with Oklahoma?

[NIUHuskies 504]

Surprised that there is no mention of the Oklahoma teacher walk-out that is happening right now.

[NIUHuskies 504]

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

2 minutes ago, NIUHuskies said:

Surprised that there is no mention of the Oklahoma teacher walk-out that is happening right now.

Not a labor-friendly crowd here at the Shag.

I fully support the teachers in West Virginia, Kentucky, and Oklahoma. I hope this is a movement that spreads.

Corrupt governance needs to be annihilated at all levels.

Quote

Inspired by West Virginia teachers, who went on strike and got a pay raise from their state leaders, educators in other states such as Oklahoma, Kentucky and Arizona are taking similar action.

Kentucky teachers are decrying what they call "bait-and-switch" changes to their pensions, after state lawmakers tucked those reforms into another bill about sewage and passed that bill last week. 

And in Oklahoma, protesters are rallying for higher teacher and support staff raises, as well as increased funding for education -- which has plummeted by 28% over the past decade, the state teachers' union president said.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23360]

Meth, fracking, and earthquakes 

[F250 28694]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Meth, fracking, and earthquakes 

[Dr. Teeth 5832]

It sucks

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

and cousin-fucking...

[Post Oak 20187]

Good for the teachers.  

Fuck Bobby Cleveland

[Mo Horn 8807]

Is that a rhetorical question?

[strangulation! 1710]

it's full of oklahomans?

[27-25 2040]

19 minutes ago, strangulation! said:

it's full of oklahomans?

[In10se 175]

How much money should you get paid just for teaching simpletons their ABCs and 1 2 3s for 12 years?

[Royalfan5 2348]

1 minute ago, In10se said:

How much money should you get paid just for teaching simpletons their ABCs and 1 2 3s for 12 years?

enough that your teachers don't decamp for other states and leave no one to teach your simpletons their ABCs and 123s for 12 years.

[TexArcher 37525]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Meth, fracking, and earthquakes 

And trailer parks, substandard dentistry, weak beer, ugly women, fat women, ugly and fat women, Toby Keith, and it sucks.

[SKJ 1305]

I don't know... I fully support this walkout. 47th ranked teacher pay, while being in the top 15 in pay to lawmakers.

The unfettered Republican idea taking this state straight to the bottom

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

12 minutes ago, In10se said:

How much money should you get paid just for teaching simpletons their ABCs and 1 2 3s for 12 years?

I don't know, but I do know that it should be more than what they are making in Oklahoma.  The people of Oklahoma should be ashamed of what they are doing to their education system there. Those legislators need to take a few minutes to quit fucking their sisters and fix their shit.  Then they can go right back to their sister fucking. 

[Ghost of LL 15493]

2 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

I don't know, but I do know that it should be more than what they are making in Oklahoma.  The people of Oklahoma should be ashamed of what they are doing to their education system there. Those legislators need to take a few minutes to quit fucking their sisters and fix their shit.  Then they can go right back to their sister fucking. 

You act as though this is the result of negligence, and not intent.  You're wrong.

There is a strong faction within the Republican Party that seeks to undermine the entire concept of public education, and would prefer that public money just go to fund private (overwhelmingly parochial) schools instead.  You've seen the first part of that strategy in how schools are funded--most Oklahoma schools now only have class four days a week.  The next phase of that is the passage of vouchers.

So if you're a parent, you'll have a choice of (1) part-time poorly-funded public school, or (2) using a voucher (plus some of your own money) to send your kid to a private school.  If you have a job and can't afford to stay at home with the kid on Friday, that's probably not much of a choice at all.  So the GOP succeeds in undermining public education in Oklahoma, all while touting "school choice."

[GSU&UT 1798]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

You act as though this is the result of negligence, and not intent.  You're wrong.

There is a strong faction within the Republican Party that seeks to undermine the entire concept of public education, and would prefer that public money just go to fund private (overwhelmingly parochial) schools instead.  You've seen the first part of that strategy in how schools are funded--most Oklahoma schools now only have class four days a week.  The next phase of that is the passage of vouchers.

So if you're a parent, you'll have a choice of (1) part-time poorly-funded public school, or (2) using a voucher (plus some of your own money) to send your kid to a private school.  If you have a job and can't afford to stay at home with the kid on Friday, that's probably not much of a choice at all.  So the GOP succeeds in undermining public education in Oklahoma, all while touting "school choice."

Definitely true, but Charter Schools/vouchers will still need a funded education system though right? I just read that this is the first time there has been a tax increase passed in 28 years.

[Ghost of LL 15493]

2 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Definitely true, but Charter Schools/vouchers will still need a funded education system though right? I just read that this is the first time there has been a tax increase passed in 28 years.

To some degree, but it can be nothing more than a skeleton system--one basically that does little more than funnel public money to private schools.

[workswithseed 2037]

GLL, your avatar sucks. See with Oklahoma you can't really say that they funding education sucks when they can barely fund it all. If you looked at Texas and this shit was happening, then there would be some merit to it, but as it stands Oklahoma sucks. 

[kevwun 15658]

Dan Patrick wants to do the same thing in Texas.  I hope people wake the fuck up before he turns our public education system in to a similar shitshow.

[Bat Guano 359]

17 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

You act as though this is the result of negligence, and not intent.  You're wrong.

There is a strong faction within the Republican Party that seeks to undermine the entire concept of public education, and would prefer that public money just go to fund private (overwhelmingly parochial) schools instead.  You've seen the first part of that strategy in how schools are funded--most Oklahoma schools now only have class four days a week.  The next phase of that is the passage of vouchers.

So if you're a parent, you'll have a choice of (1) part-time poorly-funded public school, or (2) using a voucher (plus some of your own money) to send your kid to a private school.  If you have a job and can't afford to stay at home with the kid on Friday, that's probably not much of a choice at all.  So the GOP succeeds in undermining public education in Oklahoma, all while touting "school choice."

This is actually pretty clever politics, for an Okie. Keep cutting funding until the result is unacceptable to even the inert lumps of ectoplasm that constitute the average Oklahoman, all the while cutting their taxes, and force them to pony up more money to switch to a private school if they ever want their kids to dream of upgrading to a double-wide. Thus you extract more money from the dumbasses who voted for you to cut their taxes, but now it's voluntary - they've decided on their own to pay more for the same level of service (maybe) they would have had anyway, and meanwhile you funnel money into the private education industry, who is no doubt giving you your cut via campaign donations. The dumbass who voted for you gets a tax increase that he chose, while you get to claim you cut his taxes, and all is right with the world!

Edited April 2, 2018 by Bat Guano

[Ghost of LL 15493]

And all the while,  . . . Jesus!

[Brisketexan 104636]

31 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

You act as though this is the result of negligence, and not intent.  You're wrong.

There is a strong faction within the Republican Party that seeks to undermine the entire concept of public education, and would prefer that public money just go to fund private (overwhelmingly parochial) schools instead.  You've seen the first part of that strategy in how schools are funded--most Oklahoma schools now only have class four days a week.  The next phase of that is the passage of vouchers.

So if you're a parent, you'll have a choice of (1) part-time poorly-funded public school, or (2) using a voucher (plus some of your own money) to send your kid to a private school.  If you have a job and can't afford to stay at home with the kid on Friday, that's probably not much of a choice at all.  So the GOP succeeds in undermining public education in Oklahoma, all while touting "school choice."

This.

And, one more thing:

If y'all think that leadership in Texas isn't looking at the Oklahoma model with doe-eyed admiration, you haven't been paying attention.  The results in Oklahoma are a feature, not a bug.  And they're a feature our own leaders lust after.

[Chad Fuck 17567]

19 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Dan Patrick wants to do the same thing in Texas.  I hope people wake the fuck up before he turns our public education system in to a similar shitshow.

We're much closer to Oklahoma than many Texans realize.

 

 

[Fozzz 152]

What's pathetic is that up until recently charters were strongly supported by members of both parties.  Cory Booker was on the board of Betsy DeVos' Alliance for School Choice, for instance.  

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/02/booker_and_devos_served_together_now_he_voted_agai.html

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

You act as though this is the result of negligence, and not intent.  You're wrong.

 

Sorry, that was not the intent of my post.  I completely agree with you.  And its shameful.  The people of Oklahoma should be ashamed of themselves.

[In10se 175]

1 hour ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

I don't know, but I do know that it should be more than what they are making in Oklahoma.  The people of Oklahoma should be ashamed of what they are doing to their education system there. Those legislators need to take a few minutes to quit fucking their sisters and fix their shit.  Then they can go right back to their sister fucking. 

Obviously the finer points of humor were lost here. 

[In10se 175]

1 hour ago, Bat Guano said:

This is actually pretty clever politics, for an Okie. Keep cutting funding until the result is unacceptable to even the inert lumps of ectoplasm that constitute the average Oklahoman, all the while cutting their taxes, and force them to pony up more money to switch to a private school if they ever want their kids to dream of upgrading to a double-wide. Thus you extract more money from the dumbasses who voted for you to cut their taxes, but now it's voluntary - they've decided on their own to pay more for the same level of service (maybe) they would have had anyway, and meanwhile you funnel money into the private education industry, who is no doubt giving you your cut via campaign donations. The dumbass who voted for you gets a tax increase that he chose, while you get to claim you cut his taxes, and all is right with the world!

Republicans still being able to claim theyre the party of "fiscal responsibility" and "limited government" is the biggest travesty of them all. Their sole purpose in life is to dream of every way to fuck every single one of us out of every dollar they can and fund their corporate masters. 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

4 minutes ago, In10se said:

Obviously the finer points of humor were lost here. 

Its ok, I'm lost all the fucking time.

[RDCanecutter 26287]

1 hour ago, kevwun said:

Dan Goeb wants to do the same thing in Texas.  I hope people wake the fuck up before he turns our public education system in to a similar shitshow.

Call the demon by its True Name if you wish to bind it.

[Aqua Buddha 14523]

2 hours ago, kevwun said:

Dan Patrick wants to do the same thing in Texas.  I hope people wake the fuck up before he turns our public education system in to a similar shitshow.

The only reason Texas didn't turn out like OK or LA is it has a more diverse economy that just oil.

[kevwun 15658]

Straus deserves some credit also.  Not looking forward to him not being their to rein in the insanity during the next session..

[Trey3216 15325]

2 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

To some degree, but it can be nothing more than a skeleton system--one basically that does little more than funnel public money to private schools.

Nahhh.  Most of their taxes, and a lot of federal funds and insurance $$ go to rebuild Moore again, and again, and again.  

[workswithseed 2037]

HB 3593 by Rep. Diego Bernal and Sen. Larry Taylor – This bill requires the SBOE to adopt five cybersecurity courses and they would be eligible for weighted funding.  The governor has indicated that four education topics will be considered during the special session.  Those are a teacher pay raise of $1,000; administrative flexibility in teacher hiring and retention practices, a school finance reform commission and creation of a school choice program for special needs students.

Oh, that's what the other blank space is for. Whoops, my bad. I will say this looks contrary to what y'all are saying. Now some other bills look questionable, but this seems like a good bill.

[atomheartbevo 89452]

3 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The only reason Texas didn't turn out like OK or LA is it has a more diverse economy that just oil.

That, and we have enough universities that there is some pressure from that angle.  

Get away from OU, OSU, and Tulsa, and you start running into the Oral Roberts universities who will take anybody with a pulse.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23360]

Louisiana is fucked up because of corruption, it’s pretty much ingrained in the DNA.

We have plenty of assets: Tourism (NOLA), Film Industry, Oil & Gas, good ports, cuisine, culture, and we even legalized gambling yet somehow our schools suck, our roads are shit, and the state is always fucking broke.

Sad!

Edited April 3, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[workswithseed 2037]

3 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The only reason Texas didn't turn out like OK or LA is it has a more diverse economy that just oil.

Well the oil bust did shake things up. Texas has been really good at diversifying since the 90s

[Aqua Buddha 14523]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Louisiana is fucked up because of corruption, it’s pretty much ingrained in the DNA.

We have plenty of assets: Tourism (NOLA), Film Industry, Oil & Gas, good ports, cuisine, culture, and we even legalized gambling yet somehow our schools suck, our roads are shit, and the state is always fucking broke.

Sad!

 

14 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

That, and we have enough universities that there is some pressure from that angle.  

Get away from OU, OSU, and Tulsa, and you start running into the Oral Roberts universities who will take anybody with a pulse.

Both of these are true.  Oklahoma doesn't have a lot of high end universities and the two state schools they do have get a lot of students from Texas and in the case of OU, they money whip Merit Finalists until they can't say no.  If they relied solely on their in state students, their R&D money would disappear tonight.

In the case of Oklahoma and other industries, they don't have any.  They're basically a petro state and they're broke right no even with oil being at $65 per barrel.  They also have a Battered Wife Syndrome when it comes to the oil industry.  They take all sorts of abuse from them but are afraid they're going to leave.  This all came from a massive tax giveaway to O&G and every other part of the state budget had to eat the difference.

[workswithseed 2037]

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/01/30/despite-sunny-economy-texas-budget-forecast-dreary/

Looks lolike Texas roads and Medicare suck because of school. I'm alright where the money is being shifted too.

[sidis 9755]

Good interview for anyone interested in what happened...

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018/03/29/oklahoma-tax-cuts

[Aqua Buddha 14523]

20 minutes ago, sidis said:

Good interview for anyone interested in what happened...

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018/03/29/oklahoma-tax-cuts

Very good find.  From the article:

"I would call it a perfect storm. If you look at the last decade, what we did is we lowered taxes multiple times, down to 5 percent. So, remember that the first three, four tax cuts were done by a Republican legislature but signed by a Democrat governor, so we had some bipartisan support. We were looking for that dynamic effect — if you cut taxes, that people will hire more people in their businesses, they'll buy more equipment, the economy will thrive. You'll see a dynamic effect economically. I believe that worked the first couple of times. But then what we did is we weren't looking at all the facts. We were trying to cut taxes to match Texas. Kansas and Oklahoma were doing this together, but what we weren't doing was the rest of the story. The rest of the story is Texas's property tax is two to three times higher than ours. Texas taxes services, we don't. Texas taxes mineral rights, we don't. So when you aren't looking at a complete picture, we were cutting too far without all the facts.

This should be chiseled in stone and repeated for every state who wants to follow the "Texas Model."  They want to reduce the income tax without the corresponding property tax.  They also wrongly believe that businesses will come to their wobegone states because of the new tax rate.  What they don't realize about Texas is that the income tax rate is only one of the reasons people are coming here.  In addition to that, there are major cities with educated work forces along with infrastructure like roads and international airports.  No one is moving to Amarillo.  They're moving to the major cities.

[workswithseed 2037]

That s a pretty good assessment of what other states that want be like us, but just do it wrong.

[Chad Fuck 17567]

To;dr:

“Look Ma! No income tax!”

“Look harder Pa! State’s gonna got their bite somewhere!”

[DanRydell 799]

Dan Patrick wants to do the same thing in Texas.  I hope people wake the fuck up before he turns our public education system in to a similar shitshow.

Fortunately this has only thus far been a goal of the suburban megachurch GOP faction and the rural Republicans have been able to fend it off. I’m hopeful the ass kicking Empower Texans took in the GOP primaries will allow that to continue.

[retread 2951]

 

[workswithseed 2037]

1 hour ago, DanRydell said:

 

Fortunately this has only thus far been a goal of the suburban megachurch GOP faction and the rural Republicans have been able to fend it off. I’m hopeful the ass kicking Empower Texans took in the GOP primaries will allow that to continue.

 

Are you saying mega church and rural republicans are wanting us to be like Oklahoma, and urban ones aren't?

[kevwun 15658]

No, he's saying rural republicans like their local schools and have resisted an Oklahoma style budget slashing for them so far.

[workswithseed 2037]

2 minutes ago, kevwun said:

No, he's saying rural republicans like their local schools and have resisted an Oklahoma style budget slashing for them so far.

I wonder if it has to do anything with them wanting a better sports program?

[kevwun 15658]

The schools are a big part of their communities and hopefully Dan Patrick and his ilk pushing to cut their budgets is what will finally make people come to their senses.